Thread Number: 33932
My next project, a WO-65 Unimatic!
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Post# 509834   4/6/2011 at 21:12 (4,740 days old) by joelippard (Hickory)        

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Here is the next machine I'm working on.  I've already cleaned up the cabinet and added a grounded cord.  I'm soaking the pulsator nut with PB Blaster in preparation to remove it and replace the water bellows.  The transmission seems to be in good shape but I'm going to change the oil and clean up all the filth under the machine and on the snubber.  It's got some serious fan noise going on too.  Pulsator column was changed at some point from the original salt shaker, and the cap is long gone





Post# 509835 , Reply# 1   4/6/2011 at 21:13 (4,740 days old) by joelippard (Hickory)        


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Post# 509837 , Reply# 2   4/6/2011 at 21:14 (4,740 days old) by joelippard (Hickory)        


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Post# 509838 , Reply# 3   4/6/2011 at 21:15 (4,740 days old) by Supersuds (Knoxville, Tenn.)        
Lovely

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You really have something there!  The styling of those machines is so attractively rounded. 


Post# 509852 , Reply# 4   4/6/2011 at 21:58 (4,740 days old) by turquoisedude (.)        

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Cool machine! I am surprised that a later 'jet cone' style pulsator fit this model. I look forward to seeing more photos as this progresses!

Post# 509857 , Reply# 5   4/6/2011 at 22:25 (4,740 days old) by appnut (TX)        

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Congratulations Joe!!


Post# 509858 , Reply# 6   4/6/2011 at 22:28 (4,740 days old) by swestoyz (Cedar Falls, IA)        

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Oh, congrats on the pretty find Joe! A few years ago I had Robert add my scanned copy of the WO repair manual in the Service Manual section in case you need it. The pulsator column/soap dispenser and rings look like they may have come from a 1957 Unimatc as the column and the rings appear to be grey.

If you need pictorials on opening up the transmission, there are plenty of Unimatic tear downs archived (Jed's '55 rebuild comes to mind for your fan noise issue, as well as my '56 torque spring tear down for changing the oil). Keep us posted on the progress. Can't wait to see it washing again!

Ben


Post# 509933 , Reply# 7   4/7/2011 at 06:47 (4,739 days old) by Easyspindry (Winston-Salem, NC)        
Hey Joe . . .

. . . That looks like a fine machine. Good luck on the make-over. They're just not made as well anymore.

Jerry Gay


Post# 509934 , Reply# 8   4/7/2011 at 07:06 (4,739 days old) by joelippard (Hickory)        


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Yes, you really have to get your hands on one of these to appreciate how solidly it's built. It's like a tank! Fortunately the transmission is in good shape and will not need to be torn down. I will however do an oil change. I'd like to hear ideas on how to shut that fan up. I have several "engineering" ideas but more never hurt. I've learned so much from reading this website!

Post# 509938 , Reply# 9   4/7/2011 at 07:13 (4,739 days old) by Unimatic1140 (Minneapolis)        

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Hi Joe, the reason the fan is making noise is the simple fact that the pump impeller screw has loosened over the years.  Its a quite common occurrence.

 

Check this thread out, its about fixing the motor start switch, but all you have to do is to go as far as the pump impeller screw.  I would remove the screw completely and put thread locking solution on its threads.



CLICK HERE TO GO TO Unimatic1140's LINK

Post# 509941 , Reply# 10   4/7/2011 at 07:23 (4,739 days old) by gansky1 (Omaha, The Home of the TV Dinner!)        

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Great score there - you'll love this washer!  It looks like you'll have some tightening to do on the pump impeller screw, as others said, it's pretty common on Unimatics.  I had my 58 apart a year or so ago to work on the motor start switch as well.  Heat is your friend for even a loose pump screw, I've only had one turn right out.  By the looks of the spray around the cabinet, you have or had a bit of a water leak as well.  If the pump seal is OK, hopefully resetting and tightening it will solve that problem too.

 

 


Post# 509966 , Reply# 11   4/7/2011 at 10:32 (4,739 days old) by mickeyd (Hamburg NY)        

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The majesty of the WO never fails to stun.


Post# 509970 , Reply# 12   4/7/2011 at 10:43 (4,739 days old) by joelippard (Hickory)        


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Wonderful!  Thanks Robert, now I don't even have to think about how to do, just get in there with my torch and get to work.  I'll keep updates here since I'll likely address issues in stages.


Post# 510083 , Reply# 13   4/7/2011 at 21:03 (4,739 days old) by joelippard (Hickory)        
did a little more investigating

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looks like it will definetly need some pump work and a new set of hoses, good thing ACE sells that stuff by the roll.

A few questions. How can I best tell if the pump seals are bad?

What's the best way to remove the pulstor nut on a Unimatic?


Post# 510430 , Reply# 14   4/9/2011 at 12:47 (4,737 days old) by Unimatic1140 (Minneapolis)        
Hi Joe

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How can I best tell if the pump seals are bad?

There are only two seals, the cork seal can easily be recut, this will be bad for sure as it gets destroyed when you open the pump.  The center impeller seal might still be good (we hope).  You need to take off the impeller and inspect the seal.  It has two parts, the rubber bellows and the carbon face disk.  The carbon face disk is most likely ok, sometimes you can see a tear in the rubber bellows.  If its ok, you want to place a bead of silicone under it where it sits in the pump impeller.

 

The pulsator nut can be removed with a 3/4" wrench, heating the nut just a bit and some light pounding on the wrench with a mallet.


Post# 510461 , Reply# 15   4/9/2011 at 17:03 (4,737 days old) by joelippard (Hickory)        


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Thanks for checking up on me Robert.  I've taken a bit of a rest from it.  I cut myself pretty badly with a slip of the knife while wiring in the new cord so I'm slightly compromised.  After I get into the pump I'll likely put some pics up here to show it's condition.  I may need some hand holding on this one since I've never been in this territory before, but the review of the manuals makes it much easier to approach along with the knowledge found here.  I have got it in top order cosmetically though, just gotta get the innards up to snuff.  Thanks again Smile


Post# 510894 , Reply# 16   4/11/2011 at 19:02 (4,735 days old) by joelippard (Hickory)        
Gave it a whirl this evening

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heated that pulsator nut up real good popped the wrench on and got nowhere. I'm wondering if a impact wrench would hurt the transmission?

Post# 511077 , Reply# 17   4/12/2011 at 16:33 (4,734 days old) by joelippard (Hickory)        
A work in progress

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Decided today to abandon work on the top and head down below.  Changed the oil and cleaned the filter screen.  15 ounces came out and I put 15 back however, I see in the WO-65 manual that it holds 23-25.  What's the consensus on this? 

 

Now it's time to get the snubber off and cleaned up, remove the rotten hoses, then tear into the pump.


Post# 511344 , Reply# 18   4/13/2011 at 18:46 (4,733 days old) by joelippard (Hickory)        
An Update

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Back at it again today.  Into the pump, the screws for the snubber/pump plate came with ease.  I lightly heated the impeller screw and it came easily too, or so it seemed -- so old and rusty that it broke right off.  Here are a few pictures from today.  I need help.  What is the best and safest way for me to get whats left of this screw out of the motor shaft without causing any damage to the shaft?  I tried holding the shaft with a vice grip and turning what was left sticking out of the screw with another one, basically it's just chewing off what's left there hanging out.  Another piece of information I need is how long should a replacement screw be since I have no way of know how long this original is?


Post# 511345 , Reply# 19   4/13/2011 at 18:46 (4,733 days old) by joelippard (Hickory)        


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Post# 511346 , Reply# 20   4/13/2011 at 18:47 (4,733 days old) by joelippard (Hickory)        


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 Pump disasembled


Post# 511348 , Reply# 21   4/13/2011 at 18:49 (4,733 days old) by joelippard (Hickory)        


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How does this pump seal look to you guys?


Post# 511349 , Reply# 22   4/13/2011 at 18:49 (4,733 days old) by joelippard (Hickory)        


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The carbon disc that rides atop the seal


Post# 511359 , Reply# 23   4/13/2011 at 20:55 (4,733 days old) by Unimatic1140 (Minneapolis)        

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Hi Joe, the carbon disk can be turned over and you can use the other side after cleaning it, as for the rubber bellows in the pump impeller you need to pull that out and inspect it.  Its not the top that's important, its the sides where need you to look for a tear.

 

As for the pump screw, I've only had one break off for me and I ended up using another motor because I didn't want to deal with it.  You are probably going to have to drill it out by starting out with tiny bit and slowly increase the bit size until you have all but the outer shell left.  Then you might be able to chilsle the rest out.  I've done that sucessfully with other broken screws and it saves the original threads.

 

As for the length, I believe its about 1/2" inch, but you should probably buy varing size screws and see what fits best.  This is going to be a challenge.  I've had worse, but I suspect this machine was in a humid environment which makes it even more challenging.


Post# 511363 , Reply# 24   4/13/2011 at 21:33 (4,733 days old) by joelippard (Hickory)        
Thank you so much Robert

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I so appreciate your help. I'll be back at it tomorrow evening, I suspected I'd need to drill out the remains. Hope my luck goes well!

Post# 511368 , Reply# 25   4/13/2011 at 21:58 (4,733 days old) by swestoyz (Cedar Falls, IA)        

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Enough of the screw broke off that you'll be able to match the size and thread pitch when you try to find a replacement. Below is a photo of the impeller screw from the '56. Doesn't look to be much longer than an inch to 1 1/2 inch or so, but I'll let you be the judge. Buy multiple sizes to see which works best as a good hardware store should have similar screws on hand.

The end bell has some rust on it, leading me to believe the seal had been leaking for sometime, and certainly had something to do with the screw rusting to the motor shaft. The bronze washer on the pump side looks good, as well as the carbon seal. As Robert mentioned, the bellows is the next source to look to.

Good luck on pulling out the broken screw. Been there, done that. No easy way of getting around it.

When you get around to putting it back together, Greg gave me a great tip awhile back - put some silicone on the bottom of the bellows portion of the seal, to ensure the rubber face seals against the pot metal impeller.

Ben


Post# 511377 , Reply# 26   4/13/2011 at 22:27 (4,733 days old) by gansky1 (Omaha, The Home of the TV Dinner!)        

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IIRC, that pump screw is a 28 thread, 1 inch long.  Very odd screw.  I think I ended up at a specialty machine parts company in town to find it.  Is there some of the screw protruding from the motor shaft?  If there is enough to get a vise-grip pliers onto, heat that thing up with a torch, dab a candle stick on the screw where it meets the shaft (wax will be drawn into the threads and help lube it)  and then turn it out with the pliers snapped on tight. 

 

Try not to pull on the top of the bellows-spring portion of the seal assembly.  As the guys said, if the rubber bellows are OK, this is easily reused.  I think I can see a bit of corrosion at the bottom of the impeller shaft from the inside which would indicate that water sat in the impeller shaft sleeve.  I put a light schmear of silicone around the impeller-bellows end that seats onto the metal and on the carbon seal where it meets the bellows (keep the outer face that meets the bronze seal clean of silicone and lightly oiled on final reassembly as it says in the manual) and the back of the bronze face seal that seats into the pot-metal pump housing. I have one corroded pump housing that seeped water so I sealed up all non-moving parts water-tight.   Silicone is fairly easy to rub or scour away if and when you need to service these parts again, and can greatly extend the life of fairly fragile parts that were never designed to last 60+ years.  You can see the barnacled relic that's pumping water tonight in my 58;  it ain't pretty but it works perfectly and nary a drop of water gets loose. 


Post# 511415 , Reply# 27   4/14/2011 at 07:18 (4,732 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
STUCK IMPELLER SCREW

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I would try Gregs suggestion for heating the shaft and trying to turn out what is left of the screw first. But if it breaks off you want to drill out only the shank of the screw leaving the threads in place then take the proper size male tap and re-clean the threads inside the motor shaft. I would do a parts search to see if a new water seal assembly can be found after going to all this trouble, I an sure these are still out there, I will look and see if I have any and let you know, Good Luck.


Post# 511442 , Reply# 28   4/14/2011 at 10:31 (4,732 days old) by joelippard (Hickory)        


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I'm going to first try the least evasive method with the wax, if that doesn't work then out comes the drill.  I've had good success with drilling old screws out before so we shall see.  It would appear that before this machine was taken out of use that there had been a pretty good leak of some fashion going on because there has been a good deal of rust to deal with also, the outlet hose had a lot of rust in it, most likely the machine was used with water that had a high iron content.  The cooling fan had definetly been spraying water around under there at some point.  I shudder to think of spraying water being that close to an open style motor.


Post# 511447 , Reply# 29   4/14/2011 at 11:10 (4,732 days old) by akronman (Akron/Cleveland Ohio)        
EZ out screw extractor

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I've used these on auto body bolts and screws, pretty nifty and inexpensive, try your Lowe's or Home D

CLICK HERE TO GO TO akronman's LINK


Post# 511451 , Reply# 30   4/14/2011 at 11:39 (4,732 days old) by Unimatic1140 (Minneapolis)        

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You can give the EZ out a try, I've tried it several times myself and have never been successful with that device.  That only thing that has consistently worked for me has been the slow process of careful drilling and pounding.


Post# 511454 , Reply# 31   4/14/2011 at 11:54 (4,732 days old) by swestoyz (Cedar Falls, IA)        

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I once broke off an E-Z Out while trying to remove a broken exhaust manifold bolt on a 1977 Pontiac 400 head. It is almost impossible to drill out an EZ Out as they are made of black carbide steel and I now avoid them like the plague.

Greg's tip (a fantastic idea, BTW!) sounds like a great idea. If the wax doesn't work, it sounds like you are comfortable drilling it out.


Ben


Post# 511496 , Reply# 32   4/14/2011 at 16:51 (4,732 days old) by joelippard (Hickory)        
Today's Update

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I got that @#$! screw drilled out, the candle and heat method didn't stand a chance against this thing.  That screw was literally welded with rust inside the shaft.  I had a few screws that I picked up today that I thought may work to help finish cleaning the hole out but they quickly sacrificed their threads.  It seems I may need to run a self tapping screw up in there first or a thread tap.

 

In other news I removed the impeller seal and cleaned it up. I've looked it over thoroughly twice and can't see anything wrong with it.  Here are some pictures of it so you guys can give me opinions of it.  Thanks!


Post# 511497 , Reply# 33   4/14/2011 at 16:51 (4,732 days old) by joelippard (Hickory)        


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Post# 511498 , Reply# 34   4/14/2011 at 16:53 (4,732 days old) by joelippard (Hickory)        


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Post# 511500 , Reply# 35   4/14/2011 at 16:54 (4,732 days old) by joelippard (Hickory)        


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Post# 511518 , Reply# 36   4/14/2011 at 19:02 (4,732 days old) by gansky1 (Omaha, The Home of the TV Dinner!)        

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Good job!  The seal bellows looks fine to me - seal it in place on the impeller, then when you get the screw replacement worked out, you're washing with Live Water Action again!

 

 


Post# 511568 , Reply# 37   4/14/2011 at 23:10 (4,732 days old) by Unimatic1140 (Minneapolis)        

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Joe that is just great, I agree with Greg, the bellows seal does like good, I don't see any rips.  Do put some silicone down in the channel of the impeller where the rubber bellows sits and do turn over the carbon face part of the seal.

 

If you have to re-tap the threads be sure to use a fine thread, this screw needs to be extremely tight, otherwise the fan will rattle.


Post# 511609 , Reply# 38   4/15/2011 at 07:37 (4,731 days old) by joelippard (Hickory)        
Thanks again guys

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for checking up on me. I need it right now... I admit I had some nerves going when I was drilling that old screw out. I remember thinking I was going to need a drink afterward!

Post# 511682 , Reply# 39   4/15/2011 at 17:08 (4,731 days old) by joelippard (Hickory)        
Today

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Picked up some self cutting screws at ACE today of the appropriate size.  Got one up in there and wouldn't you know, it broke off too!  It seems I need better drill bits also so I am finished for today -- off to dinner then by Home Depot for supplies.  I'm really ready to finish this, I have everything else on the bottom end ready to go back together.

 

More questions.  Is there any benefit gained by putting a felt washer on each side of that fan upon re-assembly?  Typically I have used hi-temp gasket sealer on pumps, is that the correct method for a Unimatic?

 

I'm still concerned about oil.  I drained 15 oz out and put that amount back, but the manual states a capacity of 23-25?  What should I do?


Post# 511686 , Reply# 40   4/15/2011 at 17:54 (4,731 days old) by gansky1 (Omaha, The Home of the TV Dinner!)        

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I would try seating the pump and fan assembly as originally designed first, see if that works,  it should if you get the screw issue resolved.  I would think felt washers would tend to disintegrate over time, leaving you right back where you are now.

 

The mechanism should be charged with 28 ounces of oil, air compressor oil works best.  Sorry we didn't answer that before, we had our heads in the pump!

 

Keep us posted, persistence will pay off.


Post# 511778 , Reply# 41   4/16/2011 at 12:18 (4,730 days old) by joelippard (Hickory)        
Lunchtime update!

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Here is a shout out to Dewalt titanium drill bits -- bought a set last night that they sliced up that broken cut screw like warm butter.  Followed that up with carefully working in a Irwin 1/4 in. tap and I'm happy to announce that a 1/4 in. screw went all the way up succesfully and tightened solidly.  Now on to some re-assembly this afternoon. 

 

I'm planning to use medium strength threadlocker, do you guys think that's sufficent?


Post# 511825 , Reply# 42   4/16/2011 at 16:51 (4,730 days old) by joelippard (Hickory)        
More Progress

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Fan, pump assembly and snubber plate/gasket are all back together now and the gasket sealer is drying Smile

 

Off to get new hose material...  Now we're getting somewhere.


Post# 511827 , Reply# 43   4/16/2011 at 16:58 (4,730 days old) by toploader55 (Massachusetts Sand Bar, Cape Cod)        
Excellent !!!

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Nothing like a Unimatic.

Can't beat the Drama. Eddie.


Post# 511828 , Reply# 44   4/16/2011 at 17:02 (4,730 days old) by swestoyz (Cedar Falls, IA)        

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Hey, good to hear you are making progress. One hose that can be frustrating is the pump outlet hose. I ended up finding a heater hose from Advanced Auto that fits the bill perfectly.

IIRC, the 303775 is their internal stock number for the hose, not a cross reference hose. The one of the right is the one I cut too much off. :) The second from the right was cut correctly.

Crossing my fingers for a leak free first test!

Ben


Post# 512418 , Reply# 45   4/19/2011 at 18:58 (4,727 days old) by joelippard (Hickory)        
What Joy!

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Got everything clean, all put back together and it wouldn't run. Something is binding in the pump -- now I get to take all that stuff back off again and find out what's wrong Frown


Post# 512432 , Reply# 46   4/19/2011 at 19:34 (4,727 days old) by Unimatic1140 (Minneapolis)        

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I'm sorry Joe, I can't tell you how many times that has happened to me with every single brand of washer out there.  Especially if I've had to retro-fit something.

 

Can you turn the fan with you finger manually (machine unplugged of course)?


Post# 512436 , Reply# 47   4/19/2011 at 19:38 (4,727 days old) by joelippard (Hickory)        


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Nope, you can't turn the fan with your finger but you can turn the tub in both directions and can hear the solenoid click when you turn it, and in one direction the pulsator will move up and down so that tells me the transmission is ok.  Got to be something too tight in that pump assembly


Post# 512440 , Reply# 48   4/19/2011 at 19:43 (4,727 days old) by Unimatic1140 (Minneapolis)        

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Out of sheer curiosity did you try to run the motor?  I have run the motor with the machine turned on its side to test it for a few seconds.  You might try this as you are putting it back together before you put the bottom plate back on.

 

Be sure to support the mechanism with the machine turned on its side with a 2 x 4 piece of wood or a small box or some thing so it doesn't just hang there as you working on it.


Post# 512446 , Reply# 49   4/19/2011 at 19:56 (4,727 days old) by joelippard (Hickory)        

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By the way, thank you again Robert for checking on me.  I did not try to turn it on while it was on it's side, only after everything was fully assembled.  I've been putting a paint can under the mechanism to keep it supported.

 

I can't think there would have been anything about changing the oil that would have caused an issue, or installing new hoses.

 

When I re installed the pump I used the same type screw, with a countersink style head except that the new screw is an allen head, rather than a flat head like the original.  I made sure that I got everything good and tight (I guess too tight).  I lubed the inner pump impeller seal and made sure the carbon disc seated correctly, then made my outer cork gasket and sealed it with hi-temp gasket sealer that I had on hand, also tightened the plate screws very tight.  It will be interesting to disect the issue but I think I may need to take a day or two away from it.  I've been at it hard as I can go every evening so this evening I felt like I'd had a punch in the gut.  But in the end, I will win Wink


Post# 512502 , Reply# 50   4/19/2011 at 22:22 (4,727 days old) by Unimatic1140 (Minneapolis)        

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You will win, sometimes the bottom plate of pump is up touching the impeller, you might need to add a couple of layers of cork gasket to move it down slightly.  Try taking the pump bottom off first and seeing if that frees it up, it just might so, it could be an easy fix.

 

Do take a few days off first, I know how frustrating it can be having to take the same thing apart over and over again until you get it right.


Post# 512658 , Reply# 51   4/20/2011 at 18:04 (4,726 days old) by joelippard (Hickory)        
I've cooled off

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So I went inspecting today.  Here is what I found.  The gasket that I cut had expanded with the sealer and locked against the bottom of the impeller.  I had everything put together really tight.  I'm not sure how tight things are supposed to be???

 

I'm assuming that I put the carbon disc back on the seal correctly with the knotches being aligned as shown in the picture below.  Two thinga I notice when I put the impeller back on and tighten it down good is that you simply cannot get it tight enough to tighten up the fan.  I'm attaching some pics of the fan where it slides on the shaft, please tell me how it looks, is it normal for it to fit up on there so loosely?


Post# 512659 , Reply# 52   4/20/2011 at 18:04 (4,726 days old) by joelippard (Hickory)        


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Post# 512660 , Reply# 53   4/20/2011 at 18:05 (4,726 days old) by joelippard (Hickory)        


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Post# 512675 , Reply# 54   4/20/2011 at 19:10 (4,726 days old) by Unimatic1140 (Minneapolis)        

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It sounds to me like the notches were not lined up Joe, you are lucky the notches didn't break.

 

When I install the pump I put the impeller with the seal in place into the housing, then holding the assembly I apply inward pressure on the impeller, you should feel the impeller move in and out slightly if the notches are properly lined up when you do this.  Then holding the parts together with the impeller pushed in I place it on the motor rotor and hold it until I have the impeller screw all the way down.  I let go and then really tighten it good.

 

Its not normal for the fan to be loose at all, it should be very tight against the top of the impeller where the impeller sticks out of the pump.


Post# 512683 , Reply# 55   4/20/2011 at 19:23 (4,726 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
LOOSE UNIMATIC MOTOR COOLING FAN

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Joe the fan blade you pictured looks really worn when I compare it to a new one, it may be best to replace the fan. If you don't have one Email me I have several new ones that I hope I don't need for any of the three UMs that we have.


Post# 512687 , Reply# 56   4/20/2011 at 19:32 (4,726 days old) by joelippard (Hickory)        
Ok

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That tells me that I did have the pump impeller on correctly because I did have the carbon disc falling into the knotches on the impeller. I did not install it however in the way you told me you do Robert. I had the upper portion of the pump already on the motor, holding it on with one of the plate screws.

John, I sent you a message, I'm wondering if that fan has succumbed to rust


Post# 512869 , Reply# 57   4/21/2011 at 17:06 (4,725 days old) by joelippard (Hickory)        
More Questions

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I did a little sub-assembly this evening, and have closely reviewed the attached picture from the Unimatic repair manual.  When I install the pump impeller, press the assembly into place and tighten down the impeller screw the pump impeller scrapes against the pump housing on the back side.  The machine did this before I ever started working on it, and that along with the loose fan made a terrible sound.  My question is as I look at this drawing from the manual it appears that there is supposed to be some sort of washer that goes between the face of the carbon disc (seal) and the impeller housing -- in the photo it references to it as water pump seal washer.  There was no such part (if there is an additional part) in place when I dis-assembled the pump.  Is there in fact a special washer that goes between these two parts?  This could attribute to the scraping I assume...


Post# 512871 , Reply# 58   4/21/2011 at 17:14 (4,725 days old) by Unimatic1140 (Minneapolis)        

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Is there in fact a special washer that goes between these two parts?

Absolutely there is a bronze washer, probably 1/8" thick and a rubber gasket that it sits on. The rubber gasket should be replaced with silicone because of the age of the pump housing. Are you sure there was no bronze washer anywhere, maybe someone repaired the pump years ago and forgot to reinstall the bronze washer?

Still that doesn't explain why the fan would be tight, I would think it would be even tighter without that washer there.


Post# 512875 , Reply# 59   4/21/2011 at 17:49 (4,725 days old) by joelippard (Hickory)        


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Great, that explains the problem with the scraping and fortunately I do have a new bronze washer and and a very thin rubber gasket that is with it.

 

Robert, I'm thinking that originally before I started working on the pump that the reason the fan was loose was because all that rust had eaten away part of the fan splines where it slides up on the shaft.  Fortunately, John is going to help with a replacement fan.

 

It would seem that whomever worked on this machine last (many long years ago) did not get everything back together as it should have been, and as a result it did a had a small leak at the pump, enough for the fan to sling water all around the sides of the bottom of the cabinet.

 

I'm getting my "Unimatic Certification" as I keep learning more all the time.


Post# 513479 , Reply# 60   4/24/2011 at 19:13 (4,722 days old) by joelippard (Hickory)        
More News

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Got the pulsator nut off this evening, I already knew by feel the water bellows was torn and boy was it ever.  It looked like it may have been original it was so rotten.  The removal of the pulsator revealed a small rust hole in the tub.  I'm planning to patch this with JB weld.  Does anyone have any better suggestions.  Most of the rust in the tub is surface rust and in the picture looks alot worse than it really is


Post# 513480 , Reply# 61   4/24/2011 at 19:14 (4,722 days old) by joelippard (Hickory)        
Oil Bellows

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Here is a picture of the oil bellows.  It appears there is some compressing at the top fold from the machine having been idle for so many years, there are no tears however.  Should I leave well enough alone, or change it too?


Post# 514764 , Reply# 62   4/30/2011 at 11:21 (4,716 days old) by joelippard (Hickory)        
Hope restored

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It's been a good morning with the machine.  The problem I have been having with the impeller scraping against the inside of it's housing and not seating well on the rotor shaft is one of my own creation.  I have learned a valuable lesson.  What I did wrong was to replace the impeller screw with one that was 2 inches long, rather than the original spec, thinking that the length would have no bearing since it went on up into the shaft and tightened up.  I needed to pick up a few things at the hardware this morning and decided for the heck of it I would try a 1 inch long screw of the same type.  IT WORKS!  No scraping, perfect seating on the shaft.  At the present the impeller assembly is back in place, gasket and bottom plate are back on and the sealant is drying out, and more importantly it runs as it should with everything re-assembled on the bottom end.

 

If things work out well enough I may be washing in this thing by the end of the day!


Post# 514768 , Reply# 63   4/30/2011 at 11:36 (4,716 days old) by swestoyz (Cedar Falls, IA)        

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Yes! Fantastic news, and good for you on working through the trouble shooting.

Ben


Post# 514788 , Reply# 64   4/30/2011 at 13:55 (4,716 days old) by joelippard (Hickory)        
But, it's not to be for today

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Just can't get that water bellows on, back on the bottle to stretch until Monday.  At least I have something to show however.  Pictured below are before and after photos of the innards.


Post# 514789 , Reply# 65   4/30/2011 at 13:56 (4,716 days old) by joelippard (Hickory)        


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Post# 514804 , Reply# 66   4/30/2011 at 15:47 (4,716 days old) by mickeyd (Hamburg NY)        
GOSH, JOE

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Scrollin' up, it looks like a brand new machine down there, the hoses, the electrics, the pump, the motor, the cabinet, the mechanism, fabulous.

 

Hey, Joe have you tried soaking the bottom ribs of the cantankerous Bellows in really hot water for a few minutes, then slicking around the rim with liquid dish detergent, like Dawn.

 

 

That's what finally did it for me-- THAT--or else, after trying 100 times, I just lucked out. LaughingThe Bellow is a Bee-ach.


Post# 514828 , Reply# 67   4/30/2011 at 18:16 (4,716 days old) by joelippard (Hickory)        
More Progress

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Decided to go back at it this afternoon.  After boiling and stretching the bellows back over the bottle a few more hours I got it and the snap ring on in about 30 mins.  From there I reassembled the agitator assembly, then primed up the pump to test it for leaks.  All was well, got it in place, hooked up and leveled.  Began the first fill and quickly realized that I was standing in water.  Come to find out the only hose on it that looked good is also bad, the water valve to fill flume hose.  This is an easy fix compared to the rest of what I've been thru and I'll be leaving that for another day while the floor dries out.

 

By the way, I'm looking for an agitator cap if anyone has one they can spare.


Post# 515178 , Reply# 68   5/2/2011 at 10:55 (4,714 days old) by joelippard (Hickory)        


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Everything's all back together now and leak free.  The timer performs all of it's functions but does not advance.  Overall it still doesn't sound good.  A good bit of scraping/scratching sounds from the lower end.  I'm beginning to think there are problems with the start switch as it certainly doesn't sound healthy like the other Unimatics I have listened to from this website.  I also think rust has messed with the lower motor bearing.  So it looks like I'll be going back in again, although I'm not sure when that's going to happen.  I'm tired...  I don't mean to sound negative but knowing what I do now I think this machine may have been best served as a parts donor for other Unimatics.


Post# 516107 , Reply# 69   5/6/2011 at 22:10 (4,710 days old) by joelippard (Hickory)        
Yet another update

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Took the lower end loose again this evening to find all the source of noise.  Got the end bell off the motor easily and it's very aparent that rust also got into the lower motor bearing in the bell housing.  Also, the motor start switch contacts were in terrible condition.  At this point I think I'm going to take the end bell to a nearby motor shop to see if they can pull the old bearing and replace it.   More to come...


Post# 517102 , Reply# 70   5/11/2011 at 18:39 (4,705 days old) by joelippard (Hickory)        


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Took the motor end bell to a nearby motor shop, they removed the old bearing in a snap.  Also located nearby the motor shop is a bearing distributor.  Took about 5 mins for them to locate the proper bearing.  Put it on order and had it in the next day.  Picked up the bearing Tuesday and the the motor shop popped it back in.

 

This evening I nervously put the start switch all back together and reassembled the end bell to the motor.  Ran the proper tests according to the picture thread that Robert gave me a link to.  All seems to be running well so far.  Ran it in agitate on it's side for about 10 mins and the motor didn't overheat so that tell me the start switch is operating properly now.  Got the fan/pump/plate all back together and letting the gasket sealer dry.  I'll finish putting it all back together tomorrow and see how things go from there.  Hope my luck stays good!


Post# 517115 , Reply# 71   5/11/2011 at 20:27 (4,705 days old) by swestoyz (Cedar Falls, IA)        

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Way to go! Hopefully the third time is your charm.

Post# 518017 , Reply# 72   5/15/2011 at 14:17 (4,701 days old) by joelippard (Hickory)        
Even More Problems

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I think the end has arrived.  It is impossible to get the pump to not scrape on this machine no matter which length of screw you use for the pump impeller, additionally it will scrape on the snubber plate when put on the machine, in order to get it to not scrape you have to use a gasket so thick that the plate screws will not go up and bite into their housing.  Now yet another major problem, the little felt ring on the plunger of the start switch has disentegrated, leaving the motor unable to start.  I just think this machine suffered a great deal of lack of care over the years, and it sat a long time with rust eating up the bottom end from the leaky pump.  If anyone knows how to fix the start plunger let me know, otherwise I think this will be a nice looking parts donor.


Post# 518364 , Reply# 73   5/16/2011 at 21:17 (4,700 days old) by fltcoils (South Bend, Indiana)        
Felt rings

One can get felt rings for battery terminal protection, perhaps that will fit?

Or, small felt rings are used in piano restoration, get dimensions and I can goto the local piano shop.


Post# 518460 , Reply# 74   5/17/2011 at 08:49 (4,699 days old) by joelippard (Hickory)        
Felt

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I must be nuts to continue this but I bought a thick piece of felt at the craft store that I can cut and make another ring. There is another store that I thought about checking for possible pre-cut rings... Think I will try to make one and put it on with gorilla glue, see if that can hold up to the 1140 rpm's. There is definetly no way to fix the pump on this one, just to let the severity of the rust be known upon a closer inspection I found a place on the motor shaft where the old impeller screw was so rust laden that it ate a small hole all the way thru the shaft! This machine if I can get it running again will be converted into a gravity drain.

Post# 518570 , Reply# 75   5/17/2011 at 16:21 (4,699 days old) by Unimatic1140 (Minneapolis)        

unimatic1140's profile picture
Joe I'm not sure if that felt ring is all that important. That switch is adjustable by the use of washers on the bottom of the motor rotor. If it is out of adjustment or those washers are missing its not going to work properly. I'll try and snap a picture later of what I'm talking about.

Also the pump sounds really odd, it seems like things are not going back together right. Maybe you can take some detailed pictures. You can always wire in an electric pump as well.


Post# 518625 , Reply# 76   5/17/2011 at 19:20 (4,699 days old) by joelippard (Hickory)        
Hey Robert

joelippard's profile picture
I was thinking the same thing about the felt ring, but I removed the little washers (mine has 2 on it) and tried it. It still wouldn't start...

This evening I made the ring and got it in place. Tomorrow I'll try and see how I need to adjust the spacer washers.

As for the pump. I've learned so much that I know I am putting it back together properly, there really is only one way to assemble it. I had it together once but have never been able to get it to not scrape around, it got so lound the longer I ran the machine that I couldn't even get through a full cycle with it. All I can attribute it to is an improper repair from long ago and some resulting damage. I've learned that tolerances in that area are very tight and precise.


Post# 518641 , Reply# 77   5/17/2011 at 20:53 (4,699 days old) by MaytagA710 ()        

Holy! Excellent find! And great photos, thanks for posting the "business end" of the machine, I always wondered what it looked like mechanically wise. Thanks for posting, I appreciate it! You'll have to get a video of it washing.

Post# 519167 , Reply# 78   5/19/2011 at 21:25 (4,697 days old) by joelippard (Hickory)        
Finally!

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We're getting somewhere!  I got the problem with the motor start switch repaired by locating a piece of felt thick enough to cut a new ring for the centrifugal plunger.  Got that in place and cemented on and tested.  I made the executive decision to quit screwing around with the pump business and gravity drain it.  However the fan and snubbing system must all still be in place.  So, what I did was to engineer a spring system to keep the fan in place by purchasing a spring of the proper diameter and length for good compression.  I placed a washer of a suitable style onto the impeller screw and put it all in place, suited up the rest of the bottom end.  I also found that it gravity drains just about as fast as it pumps out.

 

I'm not going to hold my breath until something else tears loose because I'm definetly gun shy with this machine now.  I've been so close so many times now and then another issue arises.  Anyway, here are a few pictures of my latest success.


Post# 519168 , Reply# 79   5/19/2011 at 21:26 (4,697 days old) by joelippard (Hickory)        
I've been wanting to post this for years

joelippard's profile picture

1140 RPM!


Post# 519169 , Reply# 80   5/19/2011 at 21:27 (4,697 days old) by joelippard (Hickory)        
Goodnight!

joelippard's profile picture


Post# 519254 , Reply# 81   5/20/2011 at 07:11 (4,696 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
Congratulations Joe

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I think you have more perseverance than I do you really stuck with it, You should get the AW award of the month for a difficult repair success.


Post# 519258 , Reply# 82   5/20/2011 at 07:19 (4,696 days old) by Unimatic1140 (Minneapolis)        

unimatic1140's profile picture
Congratulations Joe, I've been in that same situation with many machines but having perseverance usually gets you the prize of a beautiful working vintage machine.

Post# 519322 , Reply# 83   5/20/2011 at 14:27 (4,696 days old) by swestoyz (Cedar Falls, IA)        

swestoyz's profile picture
Again, persistence pays off - good job. There is nothing wrong with using an auxiliary pump if it means a beautiful machine is saved.

Ben



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