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Post# 521433   5/30/2011 at 09:55 (4,569 days old) by MIELEFOREVER (SOUTH AFRICA)        

Hi all,

We have bought a new cottage, that will serve as our vacation spot, it is not very big so space is at a premium. Now we want to have a dishwasher and washing machine & tumble dryer. We only have space for two of them, one being the dishwasher and the other a washer dryer combo. But I have heard so many negative press about them. We were looking at the Miele washer dryer combo. And by the way, how does it actually dries, meaning how does it work and how effective is it in drying. You all have helped me quite a bit in the past.


Post# 521486 , Reply# 1   5/30/2011 at 14:18 (4,569 days old) by nrones ()        
Miele washer-dryer

Generally, when buying a washer-dryer combo, the one think basicly no one thinks about is drum size.

Since I see you are a Miele fan, I deffinatley can't recommend you Candy WD that are having big drums, and I heard a lot of good experiences with them, and personally I'd buy one, also they are water efficient when drying. However some of users on here had bad experiences :(

But since I know you probobly not even think of a Candy, I would highly recommend you the Bosch 7kg wash/ 4kg dry - that is the most efficient, and it has Air-condensing - that means no water is used during drying! :D

Really, Miele is deffinatley the best quality, but the only one washer-dryer I saw from them, has a way too small drum, and only 2.5kg dry capacity, so for washing it's ok, but when it comes to drying, I think bigger drum machine is better - therefore you have a Bosch, that is fair quality + drying without using water - a feature that Miele doesn't have ;)

So, that's my personal experience, but maybe others will have different advices for you :)


A picture of it ;) Looks nice!

Post# 521491 , Reply# 2   5/30/2011 at 15:00 (4,569 days old) by dj-gabriele ()        

That machine is made in China, I wouldn't ever buy one. Candy W/D at least are made in Italy!

Post# 521493 , Reply# 3   5/30/2011 at 15:10 (4,569 days old) by nrones ()        

Yes.. well, however it doesn't mean much where it is made, if reviews are good :)
Because this Bosch is being just assembled in China, and the one made in Germany might have exactly same parts as one in China, it was just put together in Germany - anyway, I can't say I'm 100% sure about that.

If I was buying a Washer-dryer, I'd defo buy a Candy, but since user is obviously Miele-fan, and Miele-fans usually hate Candy's, I just didn't wanted again to start a Candy-crap talk ;)

Sorry if I was wrong when I wrote you hate Candy :)


Post# 521505 , Reply# 4   5/30/2011 at 16:15 (4,569 days old) by Tomturbomatic (Beltsville, MD)        

Can't you stack the washer and dryer? Could you locate a dryer someplace other than near the washer like in a closet or something? Could you install both the washer and dryer and use a portable dishwasher? If you are a true appliance lover, this is as basic as sex: it's all going to fit together somehow.

Post# 521507 , Reply# 5   5/30/2011 at 16:18 (4,569 days old) by mixfinder ()        

Germany and China co-brand many items, automoblies, trains, satelites and many other items.  They are brilliant to make partners with the richest country on earth in both money and natural resources.  I have said it before and if I had a hammer I'd pound in people's heads: China builds to the manufacturing specifications a company requests.  Trust me there are beautifully designed and well built appliances in China.  We don't see them in our country under their Chinese nameplates because of competition, tariffs and cost.  Companies distributing their product want it to be cheap to gain a price point in the market they order it cheaply made.  That is not a fault of Chinese work ethic, engineering or technology.  I tend to think that Germany with a history of building fine machines will work closely with China is manufactoring a machine worthy of it's name plate.  The US was dumb not to pursue the options of co-branding with China.  We walked away from a gold mine.

Post# 521511 , Reply# 6   5/30/2011 at 16:30 (4,569 days old) by Tomturbomatic (Beltsville, MD)        

We just settled for sending our factories over there so that corporations would not have to be bothered paying living wages and benefits or dealing with safety and pollution laws. I mean, how can you beat keeping your workers virtual prisoners in dormitories attached to the factories and running the factory waste down the hill into the next town's water supply? The workers don't need to make enough to worry about expenses workers have over here. I don't have much experience with the quality of the finer things they build, but the Chinese dishwashers that are marketed over here or at least were sold in Best Buy did not last too long and when the motor went, usually in 3 or 4 years, it was cheaper to by a new one than fix the old one. That's what a co-worker was told who had one although whether she had the dw or was had by the dw is up for debate.

Post# 521521 , Reply# 7   5/30/2011 at 17:39 (4,569 days old) by solsburian (SE Northumberland)        

Miele Washer dryers are regarded as the best you can get, they score very well for drying speed and efficiency.

A Bosch would would be a good (and cheaper) alternative, not as good as Miele but certainly better then many other brands.

Looking at the South African website, I don't think the Air condenser models are currently available yet, but they do have the classic water condensed models (WVD 24520 EU) as well as the Siemens equivalent.

The Dryer in my Siemens washer dryer is very good, it has a strong airflow, reasonable drying times and doesn't crease too badly ether. The downside is it guzzles water. I don't know if the SA machines will be different in that respect.

This post was last edited 05/30/2011 at 18:15
Post# 521541 , Reply# 8   5/30/2011 at 21:01 (4,569 days old) by mixfinder ()        
No Dice

Tom, the scenario you describe is not the norm.  Factories are built to standards which include lighting, ventilation, sanitation and safety.  Workers are all paid a negotiated salary from which taxes, health care and retirement are extracted.  One piece of your story has some validity.  It will be decided a factory is needed and it will be located near the raw material and transportation.  It may be in the middle of now where.  The government will build both dormitories for male only and apartments for families.  There will be services such as grocery, movie, shopping and recreation.  A road will be devloped to the new "town".  Much like our selective service, the government will choose the number of people needed to run the factory and they are relocated.  In China you are not allowed to move without government permission.  Your driver's license, address, auto license and government number must all match to the address where you born, where you applied to move or where the government relocated you. You can travel and there aren't any limits within the country but you are not allowed to move without first applying.  Open waste, forced labor, squallor and confinement to your dormitory are simply nonsense and false.  The standard of living is quickly approaching Western standards and more and more Chinese are buying homes, automobiles (Buick and VW are two co-branded options) and traveling as well.  After my 7 weeks of touring the country and staying in my in laws and assorted relatives homes I could live in China.  There is very little crime, the cost of living is affordable, public services abound, the avenues and parks are clean and safe, and the presence of armed military and police might go far in reducing crime in the USA.  Again, some homes in China have appliances to rival the like of our designer options.  The US and our products don't fare well in China either.  The representation of better quality and reliable service of American products doesn't exist.  No one was more amazed than I was when I saw a country not so unlike our own after expecting mud roads, human drawn carts and no municiple services.  Propoganda goes both ways.

Post# 521591 , Reply# 9   5/31/2011 at 08:46 (4,568 days old) by Tomturbomatic (Beltsville, MD)        

And this is why they installed netting around one dormitory to prevent additional suicide jumpers? To whose standards are the factories built? I doubt that the corporations give a fried damn about working conditions. There have to be reasons why the factories and jobs are over there instead of over here and why the wages are going to Chinese workers instead of American ones. I am glad you had a pleasant trip over there.

I will not buy garlic that is missing the roots, packaged or loose, in the stores because if you look closely, that garlic was grown in China, in all of that polluted air, soil and water. I buy only California-grown or locally grown garlic with the roots on the bulbs.

Post# 521682 , Reply# 10   5/31/2011 at 16:59 (4,568 days old) by mixfinder ()        
Aurora Bridge

There is a bridge on highway 99 in Seattle that is so popular with suicides that the city appropriated funds to build wire enclosures the full length and both sides of the bridge because all the bodies going kersplat on the concrete was bad for the businesses on the street below.  Desire to escape the oppresion of life is strong even in the progessive city of Seattle.

Post# 521684 , Reply# 11   5/31/2011 at 17:24 (4,568 days old) by ronhic (Canberra, Australia)        
I do get tired

ronhic's profile picture
...of all the 'China bashing' that happens on this site from time to time.

Kelly is on the money when he says that the goods that come out of a factory, regardless of where it is, are built to a specification. The workers on the factory floor don't decide that specification and nor may anyone in that factory have influence over the quality of parts that go into those goods.

Consider this: The last time a 'made elsewhere' item failed, was it because of a weld, rivet, clip or screw coming undone or was it the quality of the part?

What we as consumers should be asking ourselves are:

- are we happy with the working conditions these people have?
- are those conditions better or worse than the norm for their country?
- are those conditions better or worse than the norm for their industry in their country?
- are the goods of a quality that we should expect for the money?
- is the company that has contracted out the manufacture or owner of the factory reputable (from a quality perspective)?

etc etc etc...

One of the key issues that we have, yet we continually fail to acknowledge, is that we, the consumer, refuse to pay for quality.

WE WANT GADGETS....well, the great unwashed and uninformed seem to.

If you want items of solidity, you have to PAY FOR THEM in order to get the quality of components (stainless steel, aluminium etc).

...and even that is no guarantee. Maytag, a showcase American brand is considered the most unreliable washing machine on our market (and we're talking traditional top loader, not HE top loader) if you accept our consumer magazines survey of nearly 8000 people. 63% of owners who replied had NOT had a problem with their machines in the past 12 months, compared to 91% of Miele owners. That is a significant statistic which is also repeated with refrigerators - GE 68% and Maytag 72%...yet made in Korea LG managed 90%.

When it all boils down to it, corporate greed (more profit) and consumer greed (tight wallets) are to blame....not the country of origin.

Post# 521750 , Reply# 12   6/1/2011 at 05:43 (4,567 days old) by MIELEFOREVER (SOUTH AFRICA)        

Guys try and stay focused on the topic.

Still have not bought anything but still want to know.


Post# 521764 , Reply# 13   6/1/2011 at 08:15 (4,567 days old) by aquarius8000 ()        
Washer dryer...

Bosch, Seimens or Miele are a good choice.

Post# 521911 , Reply# 14   6/2/2011 at 01:48 (4,567 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands)        

foraloysius's profile picture
I'm with Tom, you haven't answered his question yet. Can't you stack a dryer on top of a washer? Washer/dryer combos are less efficient, especially when drying than separate machines. Besides that those machines can only dry half a load. And when you are drying, you can't wash. A wash cycle and two dry cycles will take about five hours or so. And you will have to remove half the clothes after the wash and one and a half hour later put in the other half. In a fully automatic wash and dry cycle you can only put in half a load. You will be busy doing laundry!

Anyway, how is the climate? Will you be hanging clothes outside a lot? Or will you use the dryer for every load of laundry you will be doing? Do you have a porch where you can put a cheap dryer outside? I've done that for a while. Saves space inside.

Anyway, I bet you got the message I'm not really fond of washer/dryer combos. If you really have only space for one appliance (and a dishwasher) it will have to be your choice. According to a Dutch consumer website some AEG, Indesit and Whirlpool models are the worst.

Post# 521945 , Reply# 15   6/2/2011 at 09:16 (4,566 days old) by matthewza (Cape Town, South Africa)        

woo hoo! love seeing more south aficans! what ever you do dont you dare get an LG...on cupboard dry it didnt dry prperly and the suff can out creased beyond recognition and it doesnt do a cool down at the end of the cycle(i had to put it in my whirlpool heavy duty to dry n get the creases out) i heard that the new samsung here in our stores is quite good. but have a look at the samsung nd if ypu dont like it then any german brand. i would suggest bosch or AEG

Post# 521977 , Reply# 16   6/2/2011 at 11:43 (4,566 days old) by nrones ()        
washer dryer

Well, here is my reply again.. hope previous one helped too

Just as foralyosius said, it takes too long to do washing and drying, and that's exactly the reason why should you look for bigger drum machine! Bigger washer-dryers are just having everything bigger, - drum and airflow ofcourse. I'll give you example on Candy because I personally tested, but the story is same basicly for all brands.

Candy 6kg wash 4kg dry, 1400rpm (54cm deep) takes 3h20m to dry a 4kg load (measured on scale before starting a wash/dry cycle), while Candy 9kg wash 6kg dry 1400rpm (60cm deep) takes 3h50m to dry 6kg! So, you can either dry 2kg more in 30minutes more, or dry 4kg in serious less time - because 9kg model has bigger drum, and stronger fan..

So, as I said I just used Candy as an example because I personally done this, but this is the story for all brands - there can be a slight difference when comparing machines from 2 different brands, however nothing too big to notice.

How come that AEG ended up worst on consumer magazine? a suprise for me.. and just of curiosity :P... how did Candy passed on that consumer test? Same as Indesit? - I wouldn't be suprised :)


Post# 521980 , Reply# 17   6/2/2011 at 12:10 (4,566 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands)        

foraloysius's profile picture
Most complaints are about the lint that the AEG's can't seem to get rid of. Especially after washing a load of towels, the next load is covered with lint.

There were only a few ratings of only one Candy model, the GO485D. This machine was rated above average, but no rating for durability was given because they had just bought the machine. Only one customer owned the machine one and a half year and it just had broken down for the second time in that period.

Indesits had various ratings. The good ratings came from people who just bought a machine. The complaints seem to come later. They were uneven drying and the enormous amount of water used for drying.

Post# 522023 , Reply# 18   6/2/2011 at 14:44 (4,566 days old) by nrones ()        
Thanks for the info :)

Were there any Hoover models?

Here people are liking much more 8 and 9 kg models, because it seems they all put the same amount of laundry to dry in 6kg and 9kg models, therefore there are much less comments about 8&9kg models like creasing, long drying.. Also they're both having even A energy efficency, which is quite rare for WD's :)

However there's another thing that it seems they dislike altogether and it's that Candy in instruction manual says that every year, a serviceman should be called out, to clean out all the inside pipes of the machine - they all don't respect it and when one of those pipes gets clogged with fluff (so the slower air or water flow is detected) machine displays error code - which just means ''maintenance needed'', but people start to panic

Well, better to display E code than start a fire ;) But I don't know if other WD's from other manufacturers need that


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