|
Thread Number: 3504
The Mechanical Restoration of the Youngstown Dishwasher |
[Down to Last] |  |
Post# 86502 10/2/2005 at 10:50 (6,774 days old) by unimatic1140  (Minneapolis) |
||
In this thread I will chronicle the mechanical work of the Youngstown Dishwasher. First on the list is the water system and it appears that there are three items in the water system that need to be worked on, the Drain Valve, the Mechanical Water Valve and Pump Shaft Seal. So I started with the drain valve. It uses a rubber ball to seal up the drain hole, but the rubber ball couldn't not sit completely down and seal the drain hole because of hard water deposits. The drain valve is cast out of Brass and simply seals (or ties to) with a rubber super ball! It is very cool and VERY primitive, I just love primitive parts in our machines. Check this part out... CLICK HERE TO GO TO unimatic1140's LINK | ||
|
| Post# 86505 , Reply# 1 10/2/2005 at 11:04 (6,774 days old) by compwhiz128 () | ||
|
Ya should of used CLR, but now I think lime away is better. | ||
| Post# 86554 , Reply# 4 10/2/2005 at 15:38 (6,774 days old) by christfr (st louis mo) | ||
cool | ||
| Post# 86562 , Reply# 5 10/2/2005 at 17:34 (6,773 days old) by bpetersxx (laf in on the banks of the Wabash River) | ||
jetdry | ||
|
Post# 86566 , Reply# 6 10/2/2005 at 17:51 (6,773 days old) by toggleswitch (New York City, NY) |
||
 | ||
| Post# 86594 , Reply# 7 10/2/2005 at 19:48 (6,773 days old) by bpetersxx (laf in on the banks of the Wabash River) | ||
|
| ||
|
Post# 86615 , Reply# 9 10/2/2005 at 21:26 (6,773 days old) by jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers) |
||
Isn't wild how Brass shows up in Roberts D/W?
They had to use Brass because SS was too expensive and scarce in the 1940's and the plastics available then would never have stood up to all that hot corrosive D/W waste. You might have gotten away with Bakelite but bakelite molds cost even then $50,000 to produce. Brass was much cheaper to mold! Aluminum would have failed quickly too. There was a metal blend developed at the turn of the century which was the equivalent of SS today it was called MONEL metal.It had a nickel appearance but I bet it was more expensive than Brass or Bronze. I'll have to dig up some stuff on Monel metal. It was used in the steam kettles on Titanic and they are as shiney today as when the Ship went down! | ||
|
Post# 86629 , Reply# 10 10/2/2005 at 23:06 (6,773 days old) by unimatic1140 (Minneapolis) |
||
|
| ||
| Post# 86669 , Reply# 11 10/3/2005 at 06:32 (6,773 days old) by spiraclean (UK) | ||
 | ||
| Post# 86672 , Reply# 12 10/3/2005 at 06:45 (6,773 days old) by mayken4now (Panama City, Florida) | ||
 | ||
|
Post# 86676 , Reply# 13 10/3/2005 at 07:23 (6,773 days old) by gansky1 (Omaha, The Home of the TV Dinner!) |
||
 | ||
|
Post# 86707 , Reply# 15 10/3/2005 at 09:08 (6,773 days old) by unimatic1140 (Minneapolis) |
||
|
The Mechanical Faucet
If all goes well (and as many of us know it usually doesn't) I hope to be washing the virgin load of dishes by the end of week in the Youngstown. I've got the necessary parts to repair the water inlet valve which I'm going do this evening, pictures to come. I'm going to rename the water valve the "Mechanical Faucet" because that is what it really is!
| ||
|
Post# 86789 , Reply# 16 10/3/2005 at 16:00 (6,773 days old) by toggleswitch (New York City, NY) |
||
|
| ||
|
Post# 86793 , Reply# 17 10/3/2005 at 16:30 (6,773 days old) by unimatic1140 (Minneapolis) |
||
|
wouldn't want the power to go out while the valve was open That's right Steve, and to make it even more exciting for our modern housewife, if the power goes out and the timer cam has push up the lever and opened the water valve, there is absolutely no way to manually turn the timer to off to close the water valve. Get your boots on boys! | ||
|
Post# 86797 , Reply# 18 10/3/2005 at 17:00 (6,772 days old) by dadoes (TX, U.S. of A.) |
||
Power Failures & Jammed Timers | ||
|
Post# 86800 , Reply# 19 10/3/2005 at 17:11 (6,772 days old) by gansky1 (Omaha, The Home of the TV Dinner!) |
||
|
Power Loss = Water Rising?? | ||
|
Post# 86824 , Reply# 20 10/3/2005 at 20:04 (6,772 days old) by jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers) |
||
|
Thanks Tom
I did not know MONEL was also known as German Silver. I had a coin as a kid made out of GS and now that I think back on it it was the same color gray! How could they produce a DW with such a flaw?? Power out = wash the floor!!!! And there was no shut off valve needed upon installation?? Was the machine supposed to be hooked up ahead of the sink faucet so you could use that shut off?? The sink + DW models must have been plumbed that way!! Does anybody have the install instructions for this machine?? jet | ||
|
Post# 86825 , Reply# 21 10/3/2005 at 20:08 (6,772 days old) by chachp (North Little Rock, AR) |
||
 | ||
|
Post# 86837 , Reply# 22 10/3/2005 at 20:36 (6,772 days old) by brisnat81 (Brisbane Australia) |
||
|
Blackstone Hi Guys, Remember that the original blackstones had the same issue unless they were connected to a floor drain. Such is the problem of a mechanical valve. | ||
|
Post# 86874 , Reply# 23 10/3/2005 at 22:16 (6,772 days old) by unimatic1140 (Minneapolis) |
||
|
| ||
|
Post# 86876 , Reply# 24 10/3/2005 at 22:20 (6,772 days old) by unimatic1140 (Minneapolis) |
||
|
Such a common part, but such an uncommon size!
The faucet washer needs to be replaced, I thought it was standard, but after visiting a few hardware stores I found out its smaller than the smallest common faucet washer (#000). So tomorrow I will try a few specialty plumbing stores and see what they recommend. Worse comes to worse I could always figure out a way around this, but I would prefer to use the original water valve if all possible. Greg the fills are measured, there is a switch on the pump that detects how much water pressure is going through the pump body and it keeps the timer motor from moving until the this water pressure switch is satisified. 
| ||
| Post# 86908 , Reply# 25 10/4/2005 at 04:48 (6,772 days old) by kenmore1978 () | ||
|
washer You could probably carefully trim the washer down to the right size | ||
| Post# 86911 , Reply# 26 10/4/2005 at 06:25 (6,772 days old) by christfr (st louis mo) | ||
|
cool | ||
|
Post# 87150 , Reply# 27 10/5/2005 at 09:14 (6,771 days old) by unimatic1140 (Minneapolis) |
||
|
Update on the Mechanical Water Faucet
Well going to the "Specialty" Plumbing outlets I found they had the exact same faucet washers as the hardware stores. And of course I got a lot of "I've never seen any faucet washer like that before" (I'm used to that reaction). So I bought a few of the smallest faucet washers I could find and used my Dremmel tool to grind the back of the washer down to a small enough size to fit in the cavity in the bottom of the stem. It works! YAY, at least it works for now, no drips, but I will keep a watch on it for a while. Wouldn't want to come home to an overflowing Youngstown. Tonight I'll work on the pump shaft seal. And the it will be time to wash dishes! | ||
| Post# 87161 , Reply# 28 10/5/2005 at 09:52 (6,771 days old) by frontaloadotmy (the cool gay realm) | ||
|
Just think!!! No cumbersome fabrication of invisible lid for this model. Can scarcely wait to see and hear the powerful Jet Tower surgeation | ||
|
Post# 87201 , Reply# 29 10/5/2005 at 15:09 (6,771 days old) by jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers) |
||
|
Jet Tower Surgeation!! | ||
|
Post# 87207 , Reply# 30 10/5/2005 at 15:27 (6,771 days old) by unimatic1140 (Minneapolis) |
||
|
The Youngstown must pass that one to be classified as a daily driver!! DOES IT! The Fist of Jetcone comes down hard, ouch. Ummmm I think it will win enough points for drama and cuteness alone. Besides if I adjust the "circuitry" so the cycle runs 90 minutes instead of nine, it will have no excuse for not getting things clean. We will see. I can tell just by looking at it, it’s going to have a very limited capacity. But that's OK I have the Frigidaire, KitchenAid, Apex, James and Westinghouse dishwashers hooked up and ready to go to take up the slack. No leftover dishes in the sink that couldn't fit in the dishwasher in our house! It is odd carrying dishes downstairs to wash them, but its all part of the fun. | ||
|
Post# 87254 , Reply# 31 10/5/2005 at 18:48 (6,770 days old) by toggleswitch (New York City, NY) |
||
|
| ||
|
Post# 87341 , Reply# 33 10/6/2005 at 09:15 (6,770 days old) by unimatic1140 (Minneapolis) |
||
|
Here is the latest update on the Youngstown.
The drain valve and water valve are now fixed and working perfectly. So last night I took apart the pump to see why it was leaking through its shaft. As I suspected the pump seal is pretty corroded and needs to be replaced. I found a seal in my "stash-o-seals" that fits but it’s meant to seal oil not water. While it helps and slows the leak down considerably, it still has a slow drip. But since the motor is coupled to the pump via a rubber coupler, there is no danger of the dripping water getting into the motor for now I will put a little rag down and move forward. I will be on the lookout for the proper seal though. Also the sleeve bearing in the pump is a bit worn and causes the pump to be nosier than it should be. So I revved up the dishwasher last night. Very interesting machine. It opens the fill valve and starts the motor, pressure slowly but surely builds up in the pump and it starts to spray through the Jet-Tower. After 20 or so seconds of filling the Jet-Tower starts to rotate. After 60 or so seconds of filling there is enough water pressure going through the pump to activate the pump pressure switch and that starts the timer motor moving which closes the fill faucet valve and the cycle continues on. Now here is a question for all of you out there who remember seeing Youngstown dishwashers years ago. In my machine when the tower is rotating it seems to slow down and speed up throughout the spray cycle. When it slows down you can feel vibration running through the machine, then the vibration stops and the Jet-Tower resumes full speed. Is this something you all remember with this machine, or is this a defect? I have a feeling it is a defect that I will have to fix, but I wanted to check with those of you who remember this machine first. Also how noisy do you remember this machine to be? I believe there could be two reasons for this: #1 Air is somehow being sucked into the pump and when it builds up enough air it is being expelled through the Jet-Tower. #2 The Jet-Tower simply sits on a pointed shaft, maybe the point at the top of the shaft has worn a bit. I'll be interested to hear what you guys think. Also Brent you asked about the water heater tank. Unfortunately it’s not heating so for now I bypassed it, but I do want to try and fix that too after I get the spray action working properly. I think the heating element has opened up. I took some pictures of the seal and will post them later. | ||
| Post# 87367 , Reply# 34 10/6/2005 at 13:06 (6,770 days old) by duetboy () | ||
|
Just Guessing... I would have to guess #1, Air. I have very low water pressure at my house and the GE PowerShower does this if it doesn't have enough water.... duetboy | ||
|
Post# 87388 , Reply# 35 10/6/2005 at 18:01 (6,769 days old) by gansky1 (Omaha, The Home of the TV Dinner!) |
||
|
Does the spray tower have any sort of bearing or glide at the bottom of the tower? Perhaps it's slowing down because it's not moving smoothly on the bottom of the shaft? Is there a perceptible vibration in the tower itself? (if you can even see that with the water shooting all over the place) Have you tried stopping the tower from spinning to isolate that out of the equation? | ||
|
Post# 87389 , Reply# 36 10/6/2005 at 18:46 (6,769 days old) by jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers) |
||
|
Robert
I remember turning the Jet tower when Mrs Cusano wasn't looking and the machine was empty. It sort of rattled like a bad bearing on a Kenmore or KA machine but when it came on with water it spun quickly around with no noise except the sloshing of the needle sprays and it turned continously, so fast it was hard to see the corners of the Jet Tower or that was caused by the spray hitting the glass it was a long time ago in a galaxy far far away! Jet | ||
|
Post# 87400 , Reply# 37 10/6/2005 at 19:53 (6,769 days old) by unimatic1140 (Minneapolis) |
||
|
The neat thing about the spray tower is at the bottom of it is held in perfect center alignment by two small streams of water 180 degrees apart. No bearing needed down there, and there is no visible vibration in the tower itself. I spoke to John L. tonight about it and he also thinks since he's seen this problem with other dishwashers is if the pump seal and sleeve bearing is leaking like it is, it also is likely taking in air since the seal only leaks when the motor is off. Taking in small amounts of air will cause a momentary drop in pressure every 10 seconds or so. Looks like I might have to replace the motor/pump assembly with something else. I'm going to try and find a new seal first. I hate to have to do that but this DW is too cool not to have the proper flow of water through the Jet-Tower! | ||
|
Post# 87407 , Reply# 38 10/6/2005 at 20:23 (6,769 days old) by unimatic1140 (Minneapolis) |
||
|
| ||
|
Post# 87408 , Reply# 39 10/6/2005 at 20:25 (6,769 days old) by unimatic1140 (Minneapolis) |
||
|
| ||
|
Post# 87409 , Reply# 40 10/6/2005 at 20:26 (6,769 days old) by unimatic1140 (Minneapolis) |
||
|
| ||
|
Post# 87410 , Reply# 41 10/6/2005 at 20:27 (6,769 days old) by unimatic1140 (Minneapolis) |
||
|
| ||
|
Post# 87411 , Reply# 42 10/6/2005 at 20:27 (6,769 days old) by unimatic1140 (Minneapolis) |
||
|
| ||
|
Post# 87412 , Reply# 43 10/6/2005 at 20:28 (6,769 days old) by jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers) |
||
|
Oh WOW | ||
| Post# 87413 , Reply# 44 10/6/2005 at 20:31 (6,769 days old) by westytoploader () | ||
|
GREAT pictures Robert...how cool! Love the water spraying up on the glass! It's like live-water action...except for your dishes! Increase the cycle time and you're set for ages! | ||
|
Post# 87414 , Reply# 45 10/6/2005 at 20:34 (6,769 days old) by jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers) |
||
|
That Big | ||
|
Post# 87451 , Reply# 47 10/7/2005 at 03:17 (6,769 days old) by chestermikeuk (Rainhill *Home of the RailwayTrials* Merseyside,UK) |
||
Another Restoration | ||
|
Post# 87458 , Reply# 48 10/7/2005 at 05:54 (6,769 days old) by jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers) |
||
|
Robert | ||
|
Post# 87658 , Reply# 50 10/8/2005 at 08:47 (6,768 days old) by unimatic1140 (Minneapolis) |
||
|
| ||
|
Post# 87659 , Reply# 51 10/8/2005 at 08:48 (6,768 days old) by unimatic1140 (Minneapolis) |
||
|
| ||
|
Post# 87660 , Reply# 52 10/8/2005 at 08:49 (6,768 days old) by unimatic1140 (Minneapolis) |
||
|
| ||
|
Post# 87661 , Reply# 53 10/8/2005 at 08:52 (6,768 days old) by unimatic1140 (Minneapolis) |
||
|
| ||
|
Post# 87671 , Reply# 55 10/8/2005 at 09:23 (6,768 days old) by unimatic1140 (Minneapolis) |
||
|
| ||
| Post# 87718 , Reply# 56 10/8/2005 at 15:53 (6,768 days old) by lightedcontrols () | ||
|
182! Hi Robert! Wouldn't it be better to ramp the temp down to say 155-160 so that glassware won't become etched? Mark | ||
|
Post# 87743 , Reply# 57 10/8/2005 at 21:05 (6,767 days old) by unimatic1140 (Minneapolis) |
||
|
| ||
|
Post# 87751 , Reply# 58 10/8/2005 at 21:41 (6,767 days old) by jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers) |
||
|
They'eell be etched and SANITIZED | ||
| Post# 87763 , Reply# 59 10/8/2005 at 22:50 (6,767 days old) by kenmore1978 () | ||
|
etching "Wouldn't it be better to ramp the temp down to say 155-160 so that glassware won't become etched?" Etching is not just a temperature factor, it's also a result water hardness(soft) and amount of detergent used issues | ||
|
Post# 87781 , Reply# 61 10/9/2005 at 00:42 (6,767 days old) by unimatic1140 (Minneapolis) |
||
|
| ||
|
Post# 87782 , Reply# 62 10/9/2005 at 00:43 (6,767 days old) by unimatic1140 (Minneapolis) |
||
|
| ||
| Post# 87790 , Reply# 63 10/9/2005 at 01:36 (6,767 days old) by brent-aucoin () | ||
|
Robert, Great pictures of the tub. I just can't get over how "gleaming" it is. This machine is in such great shape! Can't wait to hear the dishes go ouch! Brent | ||
| Post# 87793 , Reply# 64 10/9/2005 at 01:47 (6,767 days old) by frontaloadotmy (the cool gay realm) | ||
|
Robert please post a shot of the "female" end of the JT when time permits. Thanks | ||
|
Post# 87803 , Reply# 65 10/9/2005 at 02:50 (6,767 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands) |
||
 | ||
|
Post# 87842 , Reply# 66 10/9/2005 at 09:57 (6,767 days old) by unimatic1140 (Minneapolis) |
||
|
Guessing Time...
Yes I'm very lucky the machine is in wonderful shape cosmetically. Last night I used my remote temperature sensor to measure the temperature of the incoming water. I mounted the senser to it was under the incoming stream of water from the fill flume but not touching the any part of the machine. It read as the water was filling in 181F, but once the tub had its full water level and the water valve had shut off, anyone care to guess what the temperature of the water being sprayed out of the Jet-Tower had dropped down to? Hey Darrel, easy enough here is the picture of the underside of the Jet-Tube... 
| ||
|
Post# 87872 , Reply# 68 10/9/2005 at 12:09 (6,767 days old) by chachp (North Little Rock, AR) |
||
|
Here is a shot of my Youngstown Dishwasher...LOL! | ||
|
Post# 87873 , Reply# 69 10/9/2005 at 12:09 (6,767 days old) by chachp (North Little Rock, AR) |
||
|
Woops! | ||
|
Post# 87874 , Reply# 70 10/9/2005 at 12:10 (6,767 days old) by chachp (North Little Rock, AR) |
||
|
Here is one more | ||
|
Post# 87903 , Reply# 72 10/9/2005 at 16:27 (6,767 days old) by unimatic1140 (Minneapolis) |
||
|
Austin I'm using a good quality thermometer with a long wire that can go do and reach all the way into the dishwasher. The answer is the water temperature comes out of the fill flume at 180F, but it drops down to 138F once its is being sprayed at full force and by the end of the five minutes of the wash cycle the temperature has dropped down to 129F. 
| ||
| Post# 87909 , Reply# 73 10/9/2005 at 17:36 (6,766 days old) by christfr (st louis mo) | ||
|
yeah | ||
|
Post# 87974 , Reply# 74 10/9/2005 at 22:05 (6,766 days old) by jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers) |
||
|
129???? | ||
|
Post# 87985 , Reply# 75 10/9/2005 at 22:31 (6,766 days old) by unimatic1140 (Minneapolis) |
||
|
| ||
|
Post# 88022 , Reply# 76 10/10/2005 at 06:40 (6,766 days old) by toggleswitch (New York City, NY) |
||
|
| ||
| Post# 88024 , Reply# 77 10/10/2005 at 06:45 (6,766 days old) by kenmore1978 () | ||
|
Did I miss something? What was the solution to the leaking pump seal? | ||
|
Post# 88055 , Reply# 78 10/10/2005 at 09:10 (6,766 days old) by unimatic1140 (Minneapolis) |
||
|
| ||
|
Post# 88199 , Reply# 79 10/10/2005 at 22:30 (6,765 days old) by tomturbomatic (Beltsville, MD) |
||
|
Temperature drop was another reason for rinsing the dishes in very warm water before stacking them in the dishwasher in days of yore. | ||
|
Post# 88203 , Reply# 80 10/10/2005 at 22:42 (6,765 days old) by unimatic1140 (Minneapolis) |
||
|
Well obviously a towel can't be a solution to the leaking pump shaft seal forever, so now that I had a few fun washes in the Youngstown I took apart the pump again. Its a very bad sealing system, they simply compress a bronze washer against a bronze sleeve bearing. When I pressed out the bearing there was even water between the pump base and bearing tube, oy. The bearing is worn, so tomorrow I'm going to take this bronze sleeve bearing (or bushing) down to my local bearing retailer and see if they can match it up with a new one. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that its a standard bearing. Here are the parts of the pump... 
| ||
|
Post# 88204 , Reply# 81 10/10/2005 at 22:43 (6,765 days old) by unimatic1140 (Minneapolis) |
||
|
| ||
| Post# 88235 , Reply# 82 10/11/2005 at 09:15 (6,765 days old) by kenmore1978 () | ||
|
impeller Wow, that impeller looks like it could move the Queen Mary! | ||
|
Post# 88448 , Reply# 83 10/12/2005 at 10:20 (6,764 days old) by unimatic1140 (Minneapolis) |
||
|
Well at Gopher Bearing yesterday I found the EXACT replacement sleeve bearing for the Youngstown's pump body. I installed the new bearing in the pump housing and it makes the dishwasher a bit quieter as the old bearing was worn down a bit. But unfortunately I still have a very slow Drip.....Drip.....Drip (one drip every five minutes) from the pump shaft. So down goes a towel until I can locate a good substitute for the pump seal. Back to the old drawing board.
| ||
| Post# 88674 , Reply# 84 10/13/2005 at 09:46 (6,763 days old) by kenmore1978 () | ||
|
pump seal I was trying to imagine how they got a good seal out of all metal parts, with no O rings or such. | ||
| Post# 88718 , Reply# 85 10/13/2005 at 13:31 (6,763 days old) by veg-o-matic (Baltimore, Hon!) | ||
 | ||
| Post# 88719 , Reply# 86 10/13/2005 at 13:36 (6,763 days old) by duetboy () | ||
|
Gopher I used to be Dad's Gopher. Go for this, Go For that! duetboy aka jeff | ||
| Post# 88775 , Reply# 87 10/13/2005 at 19:22 (6,762 days old) by roto204 (Tucson, AZ) | ||
LOL!! | ||
| Forum Index: |
| Other Forums: |
|
|
|
|
|
Comes to the Rescue!
