Thread Number: 35133
The demise of the 1800rpm washing machine...
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Post# 525599   6/19/2011 at 15:02 (4,549 days old) by ultimafan ()        

So I was browsing the Miele website, and their top-of-the-line W5000 supertronic is impressive, juggling steam washing and auto-dosing, but has dropped the 1800rpm spin in favour of 1600rpm, compared to its predecessor W3985WPS. Now I think only Maytag offers that sort of spin.

At one point, we had Siemens, Miele, AEG, even Zanussi offering 1800rpm spin models. I probably would not use an 1800rpm spin, although I'd defo trust it on a Miele, so will we miss such high spins? Or is it for the better?

I know it sounds a little pointless, but it seems like the end of an era, considering that all the brands above have dropped the 1800rpm.

Post# 525608 , Reply# 1   6/19/2011 at 15:19 (4,549 days old) by chestermikeuk (Rainhill *Home of the RailwayTrials* Merseyside,UK)        

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Gorenje UK have dropped the 2,000rpm so 1600 it is for everything else and MaytagAsko claim the top speed now ...the difference between the spin speeds and extraction could be measured in the lab, you d be hard pressed to tell by feeling the clothes , BUT it would save time and energy if using a dryer all the time!!

This post was last edited 06/19/2011 at 17:34
Post# 525614 , Reply# 2   6/19/2011 at 15:28 (4,549 days old) by nrones ()        
Gorenje didn't

Still, Gorenje's top is 2000rpm, however before the touchscreen models were available only at 2000rpm, now they added touch screen models with lower speeds too ;)


Post# 525637 , Reply# 3   6/19/2011 at 17:33 (4,549 days old) by chestermikeuk (Rainhill *Home of the RailwayTrials* Merseyside,UK)        
Listen, Read & Learn

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I said Gorenje UK.....!!!

Post# 525638 , Reply# 4   6/19/2011 at 17:54 (4,549 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, Thereīs a Lady on Stage)        

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According to what one has read and be told by qualified service persons final spin speeds >1100rpms or so are only marginally more efficient if at all. On the other hand uber high spin speeds do increase the wear on a washing machine which can lead to premature part or parts failure. The later is more true if unbalanced loads are often spun and or the machine is not well leveled on a quite firm surface.

Aside from thick and thirsty bath linen and perhaps a few other items such as down filled duvets and pillows few modern textiles require and or can withstand very high spin speeds. While tumble drying will take out some creasing, that is not always the case. Again very high final extraction speeds aren't good for textiles either, especially if the cycle goes on for too long past the point of removing moisture. This was known back when separate extractors (spinners) were common in all commercial laundries. Back then some believed in leaving items in the machine until almost no water came dripping out/items were spun nearly dry. After awhile it was noticed items subjected to such treatment were not only worn down faster, but some things were literally pulled out of shape permanently.

Have some cotton tanks and other items that have subjected to "long" spin times in my spin dryer (Hoover and the Paki "Spin-X"), mainly because they were bunged in with a load of heavy items such as towels. The result is many do not fit properly and or stretched out of shape. One thought the heat of tumble drying would "shrink" things back, but alas that has not happened.

Considering the build quality of washers these days far easier and probably cheaper to drop the final extraction speed than redesign things to take the abuse.

Consider this, there are many "vintage" front loaders about that have lasted ages with final spin speeds <1000rpms, far out living their newer cousins with faster extraction speeds. Even longer lasting are pure washers only where loads are washed, rinsed but never spun; that is done in a separate extractor unit.

Post# 525656 , Reply# 5   6/19/2011 at 19:34 (4,548 days old) by FL1012 ()        
I won't miss them.....

I only realised the other day that Zanussi offered an 1800rpm model, but seen as their bearings struggle to handle 1200 these days, i'd hope some seriously upgraded parts were used otherwise i have very little faith!

I find our 10 year old 1000rpm spin Zanussi to spin more effectively than the 3.5 year old 1400rpm Zanussi we own. Going over 1000-1200 doesn't have much appeal to me with this in mind.

I think it's no use having a really fast spin if the pump can't extract the water quick enough or the machine only does the top speed for a really short amount of time - our 1000rpm holds at that speed for at least 5 minutes - much longer than the Essential does at 1400rpm.


Post# 525675 , Reply# 6   6/19/2011 at 22:19 (4,548 days old) by ronhic (Canberra, Australia)        

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I managed quite satisfactorily with 800rpm for years until 2005 and find that the 1200rpm of the current washer is just about perfect....creasing is minimal compared to extremely high speeds, items dry relatively quickly on the line and the dryer times are good.....

Post# 525715 , Reply# 7   6/20/2011 at 04:37 (4,548 days old) by brisnat81 (Brisbane Australia)        

The Miele drying manuals suggest a drop of 10% of residual moisture content for clothes spun at 1800rpm vs 1200rpm.


That said, the Miele machines spin at 1200rpm for 6 minutes and then maximum speed for the final 1.5-2mins.  I've never noticed additional creasing for normal mixed loads at 1800rpm, but due to the resonance through my wooden floor, I limit the spin speed to 1400rpm.  The tiny holes in the Miele drum never show any dimpling on an fabric even at max spin speed.

Post# 525719 , Reply# 8   6/20/2011 at 05:27 (4,548 days old) by chestermikeuk (Rainhill *Home of the RailwayTrials* Merseyside,UK)        
I`ll stick To

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1600rpm and a large 8kg 60ltr drum for my needs, which when it comes down to it its what you find beneficial to your own needs & requirements, with the weather here and the need for tumble drying it gives me best performance..

We did a test at Johns house and a load of jeans out of the Hoover 9kg vision, 1600rpm, where spun at 1800rpm in the AEG and you could feel the difference and the time in the dryer was 15mins less...

Post# 526038 , Reply# 9   6/21/2011 at 13:22 (4,547 days old) by ultimafan ()        
Thanks for the replies...

I thought initially it was something to do with motor changes and the introduction of brushless motors, but that may have been ages ago.

We also mananged fine with an 800rpm machine for nearly ten years too, and then 1200rpm therafter, also briefly a 1400rpm machine too.

Post# 526084 , Reply# 10   6/21/2011 at 16:36 (4,547 days old) by variomatic ()        
1800 rpm vs. 1600 rpm

Hi everyone,

I had an AEG washing machine with a 1800 rpm spin for the past 6 years and got a new Miele W 6000 with 1600 rpm a few weeks ago and I have to admit that the Miele spins better!
I think most facturers donīt offer a 1800 rpm spin any longer since it puts lots of stress on the motor and the bearings, especially due to the bigger capacity drums.
But bigger capacities also means a bigger drum diameter which will increase the G-factor that results in better spin results!

the old AEG on the left, the new Miele on the right!

Post# 526189 , Reply# 11   6/22/2011 at 07:12 (4,546 days old) by paulinroyton (B)        
Spin Speeds

I have 2 sepearte spin dryers which spin at 2800rpm, clothes dry much quicker when you want to dry them in a tumble dryer.  You don,t have to buy them new, just  look on ebay as many bargains on there.



Post# 526281 , Reply# 12   6/22/2011 at 16:26 (4,546 days old) by nrones ()        
Maybe it's pointless

Recently I saw on Gorenje Touchscreen models the reason why maybe... Gorenje says that after a 1600spin there's 44% of humidity left in clothes and after a 2000rpm spin 41%, which is really small difference, and a lot more stress for the washer.

However everyone seems to claim that 1200rpm washers are best choice - fast enough for reasonable drying times, and gentle enough for motor, bearrings etc..


Post# 526283 , Reply# 13   6/22/2011 at 16:39 (4,546 days old) by ronhic (Canberra, Australia)        
I'd agree...

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...that 1200rpm is probably about the most universal speed for longevity and effectiveness...

Post# 526288 , Reply# 14   6/22/2011 at 16:59 (4,546 days old) by ultimafan ()        

I can believe that the 1800rpm only is marginally better at water extraction compared to 1600, higher spins speeds can be proportional to water extraction, but surely up to a point? Actually at the time when 1800rpm was gaining popularity (i.e. Zanussi joined the bandwagon with their two models) I was expecting Hotpoint to churn out an 1800rpm Ultima (or Aqualtis, which was released a year later at the time).

Post# 526295 , Reply# 15   6/22/2011 at 17:27 (4,546 days old) by chestermikeuk (Rainhill *Home of the RailwayTrials* Merseyside,UK)        
Most Popular

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Capacity & spin speed in the UK by sales to date is the 7kg - 1400rpm machines....

Post# 526298 , Reply# 16   6/22/2011 at 17:31 (4,546 days old) by nrones ()        
I was amazed too

when I found out it isn't proportional! Belive me, it isn't. Seems that the biggest difference is between 600 and 800 rpm, and higher the speeds are, difference is lower.

I personally think it's like when you want to extract water from laundry by hand, in the first few seconds most of the water comes out, and no matter how stronger you are extracting only fewer and fewer drops are coming out :P

Also, not to mention, again, how with higher speeds, machine's under bigger stress, and when that combined with no big difference in result, they all rather just put it back to slower - both good results, and machine probably last longer :)

Here you can see that very clear on a Gorenje brochure ;)
Sorry, it is on Serbian, but I clearly marked where it is, and I think you'll understand :)

Post# 526305 , Reply# 17   6/22/2011 at 18:02 (4,546 days old) by Nrones ()        

Sorry, it seems i mis-understood you first time...

so now.. about what you said - yes, I think it goes to the point, but that point is somewhere were water can't be extracted from the laundry anymore no matter how high speed gets, so maybe that (reasonable) point is in 1600-1800 spins :)

To be honest, from brands like Indesit and Candy, 1600rpm is waaaay too much, and it seems they have that 'high' models available only in UK and Germany.... here and in Italy, both indesit and Candy are having 2-3 models 1400rpm, and all others 800-1200 ;) so I think 1800 for them wouldn't be a good idea xD

Now, when mentioned, in Serbia the most sold combination is 6kg 1000rpm :)


Post# 526568 , Reply# 18   6/23/2011 at 21:38 (4,544 days old) by Rolls_rapide (.)        

Even if you do have a fast spinning washing machine, the load might be slightly out of balance and thus the machine might not actually be spinning at 1600. Instead it might be say, 1200rpm.

If you unload the machine, shake out the laundry and try spinning the same load again, the now properly balanced load can now reach full tilt, achieving better extraction efficiency.

My Panasonic had a mixed load of coloureds that included a few towels and a pair of jeans and smaller articles. The load failed to balance properly, so the final spin seemed audibly to remain at some intermediate speed (maybe 1200rpm). The laundry felt damp; the jeans felt wet.

I unloaded, shook everything out, reloaded and span on max speed again. This time the load was in balance, and in the last 3 minutes, the audible notes of the motor rose to the maximum pitch that signify full speed. Everything was much drier, jeans included.

Post# 526873 , Reply# 19   6/25/2011 at 16:24 (4,543 days old) by nrones ()        
Slow It DoWn!

Well, in my newest video, I tried to point out people to reduce spin speeds for longer ''life'' of their washers ;)

Maybe we all should do that? :)


If you want to go directly to the point, go to 7:18 ;)


Post# 528120 , Reply# 20   7/1/2011 at 17:57 (4,537 days old) by Rolls_rapide (.)        
Slower speeds?

Nope, not a chance in Hell, because:

Slower speeds means wetter washing.
Wetter washing takes longer to dry in our climate.
Longer drying times are inconvenient to modern households.
Wetter washing would cost a fortune to dry in a tumble dryer, especially with our electricity prices.

And I've witnessed lower speeds being rather violent in their movements. Whereas faster spins can be more stable. However, much depends upon the design of the machines. Some are much better than others.

Post# 528383 , Reply# 21   7/3/2011 at 04:52 (4,535 days old) by ozzie908 (Lincoln UK)        
Slower spins...

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At this time of year I tend to reduce the spin from 1600 down to 12 or even 800 as I out it out on the line which is fine for everything except towels as I hate cardboard ones and as I do not use softener in the wash I tumble dry even in summer as it makes them soft so the machine is left to spin at full speed because it saves electricity..


Post# 528384 , Reply# 22   7/3/2011 at 06:01 (4,535 days old) by dyson2drums (United Kingdom)        

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Spin speeds are always taken into account when buying a new washing machine, with atleast one wash per day in our household we need a fast spinning washing machine, and max spin is used pretty much all the time. Having bought the LG steam F1479FDS5 which has a max spin of 1400 which is very effective and clothes feel very well spun, especially on towels and jeans etc.

Btw- Although gorenje had a 2000rpm machine the residual moisture in clothes was 41% and hotpoint 1600rpm machines have 38%, which is the best i've heard of and seen so far in terms of technical data in residual moisture.

Don't think i'll miss the 1800 or 2000rpm spinning machines from the market, don't think they do the machine any good and don't think they make a that bigger difference.

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