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Thread Number: 35362
ASKO: Meet The 3 hour + 25 minute Dishwasher Cycle |
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Post# 528305 7/2/2011 at 15:56 (4,852 days old) by Frigilux  (The Minnesota Prairie) |
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 Wow! I know dishwasher cycles have grown in length over the past few years, but this ASKO (model D5893XXL) had a normal cycle length of 205 minutes in a recent Consumer Reports test. Let's hope this doesn't become the 'new normal' for dishwashers---nor the price: $2,000
It used 7 gallons of water, which is more than my LG uses for a normal cycle.
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| Post# 528335 , Reply# 1 7/2/2011 at 19:25 (4,852 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA) | ||
Miele | ||
| Post# 528343 , Reply# 2 7/2/2011 at 21:04 (4,852 days old) by pierreandreply4 (St-Bruno de montarville (province of quebec) canada) | ||
What the???? | ||
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Post# 528344 , Reply# 3 7/2/2011 at 21:21 (4,852 days old) by nmassman44 (Brooksville Florida) |
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| Post# 528347 , Reply# 4 7/2/2011 at 21:39 (4,852 days old) by Rolls_rapide (.) | ||
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"It used 7 gallons of water" Are you sure that it wasn't seven litres? | ||
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Post# 528349 , Reply# 5 7/2/2011 at 21:41 (4,852 days old) by peteski50 (New York) |
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Time!
It is abosoltly insane to run that long! My GE Tall Tub runs almost 1 1/2 and that is more than enough time. It is one of the first tall tub models. It does clean well. Even though I usually start it before I go to bed and don't unload until the next day I wouldn't want a machine that runs 2 - 3 hours. I really would rather wash them by hand! And also where is the energy savings with such long running cycles?
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Post# 528403 , Reply# 9 7/3/2011 at 08:56 (4,851 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie) |
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The Normal cycle on my LG automatically engages the soil sensor to determine the length/number of water changes for the cycle. Fortunately, it often opts to shorten the cycle, and I never pre-rinse dishes. Only on very rare occasions has it lengthened it. The cycle time defaults to 2:19, but it's often done between 1:30 and 1:50, even when I add the steam and 160-degree final rinse options. Most often, it uses 4.5-5.5 gallons of water. If the load is small or very lightly soiled, it will use 3.5 gallons.
I'm guessing the ASKO also defaults to a soil sensor. The load Consumer Reports uses for their tests is, by their own admission, quite a tough, heavily-soiled load. The ASKO probably defaults to a longer cycle time with more changes of water. I checked again, and it states the ASKO used 7 gallons of water for their test cycle.
Miele: Two expensive new Miele dishwashers ranked at the very bottom of the ratings due to extremely poor cleaning results, partially the fault of wash arms that clogged during testing. CR says that Miele has come up with a 'fix' for the problem. They will undoubtedly retest the machines soon after they have been fixed.
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Post# 528419 , Reply# 10 7/3/2011 at 10:02 (4,851 days old) by logixx (Germany) |
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Our Siemens from 2006 takes 2.5 hours on the ECO cycle and roughly 2 hours when using the autoNormal cycle. autoHeavy takes a little longer. It uses around four gallons on most cycles. Using the varioSpeed and Half Load options, I can clean and sanitize a not too heavily soiled load in 65 minutes.
Some dishwashers have a special night cycle of some sort. Whirlpool/Bauknecht has one that produces only 38dB as does the Miele Extra Quiet cycle. This particular cycle on the Miele runs 4:45 hrs. Bosch/Siemens also have a 38 db dishwasher available but without a dedicated cycle for quietness. As for conservation: Bosch/Siemens are the best as of now with a series of dishwashers that only consumes 1.7 gal. by recycling clean rinse water to pre-wash the next load. Now, Whirlpool announced a dishwasher that's supposed to only need 1,58 gal. as part of their Green Kitchen project. Alex | ||
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Post# 528585 , Reply# 11 7/4/2011 at 09:26 (4,850 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md) |
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LONG DW RUN TIMES I will never have a DW that runs more than an hour, has the have dishes pre-rinsed, or that I have to clean messy filters on ever. I also like hearing the sound of water when my machine is running. I had a good customer that got a Miele DW and hated it because it took over two hours and didn't dry worth a darn, she said I want my old KA back and I always loved the sound of water as I thought I was at the ocean. Needless to say the Miele was only around a year or so and the first breakdown she said get me a real DW again and in went a standard tub KM Ultra-Wash machine.
I think it is interesting that CRs doesn't say how much electricity these new machines use running 2 or 3 hours. Also keeping a 2x2x3 foot box in your kitchen heated on the inside to around 140 degrees for 2 or 3 hours has to be putting an extra load on your homes AC system. The only benefit I can see in the new machines is water saving but this comes with wasting water rinsing dishes and then cleaning the sink and the stinking filter in the machine. | ||
| Post# 528595 , Reply# 13 7/4/2011 at 10:16 (4,850 days old) by mark_wpduet (Lexington KY) | ||
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Post# 528622 , Reply# 14 7/4/2011 at 12:18 (4,850 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie) |
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John---Like you, I'm not interested in a dishwasher with a manual-clean filter. However, I do like a very quiet dishwasher, as I'm usually working in the kitchen for hours at a time washing successive loads, so I get tired of hearing it. The LG was the quietest machine I could find that still had food grinder/self-cleaning filter (45 db). It's so quiet, I'll occasionally forget it's running and open the door to put something inside.
I don't miss the (relatively) louder operating sounds of my former dishwashers, a Maytag and a Frigidaire. Were I a person who loaded and started the dishwasher, then left the kitchen, the noise level probably wouldn't be as important to me. | ||
| Post# 528718 , Reply# 15 7/4/2011 at 19:45 (4,850 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA) | ||
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Long Whirlpool | ||
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Post# 528728 , Reply# 16 7/4/2011 at 22:01 (4,850 days old) by appnut (TX) |
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whirlpool Soak | ||
| Post# 528770 , Reply# 19 7/5/2011 at 07:24 (4,849 days old) by danmantn (Tennessee) | ||
Yep, my dishwasher is one with 3 hr wash, and 4 hour soak...and must have rinse aid for it to work properly. A pain at busy times.
This post was last edited 07/05/2011 at 10:43 | ||
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Post# 529301 , Reply# 22 7/7/2011 at 13:42 (4,847 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie) |
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Yes, the water definitely cools in the pipes between water changes on new dishwashers with long cycles. However, remember that many of these machines fill with only a tad over a gallon of water. It heats very quickly. I believe that's true of machines that do alternate rack washing (like my LG and the Frigidaire I had around 2005), at any rate.
The LG heats water very quickly. Choosing the 160 degree final rinse option adds under 10 minutes to the cycle. My previous dishwasher, a TOL Maytag, circa 2007, didn't alternate washing between racks, so there was much more water in the machine to heat. Choosing the Sani Rinse option added about 20 minutes to a cycle. | ||
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Post# 529391 , Reply# 23 7/7/2011 at 19:07 (4,847 days old) by appnut (TX) |
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Post# 529395 , Reply# 25 7/7/2011 at 20:08 (4,847 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie) |
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Let's watch the sweeping generalizations: Not all new dishwashers are "crappy". My LG is by far the best dishwasher I've ever owned. It cleans pots/pans better than any of my previous dishwashers (mid '70s' Kenmore, mid-80's KitchenAid, late 80's Whirlpool, late 80's GE, 90's KitchenAid, early 00 KitchenAid, mid00 Frigidaire, mid 00 Maytag).
The loading flexibility is amazing, and the ultra tall tub allows me to wash tall pots that wouldn't fit in the aforementioned machines. Yes, the cycle time is longer than vintage machines, but I wash many loads in succession and haven't had problems adjusting to a cycle that's longer than 60 minutes. It is super-quiet, and is very water and energy efficient. It has a steam feature and 160 degree final rinse options. I wouldn't trade it for any other dishwasher, vintage or new. It is not a crappy dishwasher. | ||
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Post# 529444 , Reply# 27 7/8/2011 at 05:56 (4,847 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie) |
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Post# 529454 , Reply# 28 7/8/2011 at 08:13 (4,846 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md) |
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HEATING WATER IN NEW DWs Yes there is about 1/2 as much water to heat but the heater elements have been reduced in wattage in most cases to 400 or 500 hundred watts at best. There is just no reason to have a DW running more than an hour. Having a hot machine in the kitchen that long only increases your air-conditioning costs and I am sure that is not taken into account in the energy stickers.
Eugene it is always good to hear that people are enjoying thier appliances and getting good use out of them. This is what my whole professional life has been devoted to and based on your recommendation I will take a second look at LG DWs. Both LG and Samung major appliances got off to such a bad start in this country, much like the first Hyundai automobiles did, but I always figured that they might get better in time. I see the LG DWs on the scrap pile almost every week and it is basically a copy of the WP KA tall tub machines. I will have to pick up a few of them some time and take them back to the shop and see what makes them tick, but I am sure that I would never put one in my kitchen. I have already had a TOL KA TT machine and a TL GE TT DW and just bending down the extra 2" to load the lower rack was enough to kill the design for me.
There is just no reason what so ever that dishwashers need to take so long. It could actually use less energy and water to put a decent sized pump in and a 240 volt heater and get the job done in less than 30 minutes. Commercial machines have been doing this for years and they kill far more germs in the process. I feel that overall most new appliances have improved but some where along the way dishwashers have evolved in the wrong direction. | ||
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Post# 529477 , Reply# 29 7/8/2011 at 11:00 (4,846 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie) |
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John-- A caveat about LG dishwashers: Their frequency of repair rate is very high according to Consumer Reports. They are the least reliable of all the brands for which they have enough repair data from their readership. Their current TOL steam model (pretty much the same model I have) scores an 80 (only one Bosch model scored higher, at 81), so they do their job well.
The dishwasher in my house gets very heavy use day in and day out. The LG is almost three years old and so far, no problems; but at Consumer Reports, 23% of the people who responded to the questionnaire and have LG dishwashers, have had to have them repaired. That statistic does not exactly inspire confidence. LG washing machines used to have a poor reliability record, but they have recently improved to where they are now listed as the most reliable. Hopefully LG will be able to make similar strides with their dishwashers. The least repair-prone dishwasher brand on CR's list? Whirlpool, at only 8% needing repairs. | ||
| Post# 529505 , Reply# 30 7/8/2011 at 13:41 (4,846 days old) by joe_in_philly (Philadelphia, PA, USA) | ||
 My 6 year old, middle of the line Bosch does an excellent job. The regular cycle gets dishes that have not been pre-rinsed completely clean, even if they have been sitting for days. It does have a manual clean filter, but the only things I have found in it are toothpicks and twist ties - things that must have snuck into the dishwasher stuck on the bottom of something. I only need to check it a few times a year. I wouldn't let a manual clean filter scare you away from a dishwasher. I like that the Bosch heats the wash and rinse water to a set temp, which is probably why I get such consistent results. In the summer, a regular cycle takes around 99 minutes, and in the winter about 10 minutes longer. | ||
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Post# 529600 , Reply# 32 7/9/2011 at 00:17 (4,846 days old) by Toggleswitch (New York City, NY) |
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To work aroudn water in the pipes cooling, there is much to be said to puting a small electric hot-water heater under the sink say of a two gallons (7.56 +/- litres) capacity to produce hot water for the DW.
Nothing wrong with a wall or cabinet switch to shut it off when DW is not being used. CLICK HERE TO GO TO Toggleswitch's LINK | ||
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Post# 529615 , Reply# 33 7/9/2011 at 02:20 (4,846 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands) |
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| Post# 529638 , Reply# 34 7/9/2011 at 07:10 (4,845 days old) by matthewza (Cape Town, South Africa) | ||
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LG our LG takes 2 hr 25 min on eco (we dont use that cycle often), 34 min on quick (we use that quite alot) but most of the time we use the auto cycle that uses all its sensors to determine the perfect cycle time and its always different and includes 30 mins for drying. the eco cycle also has a 30 min dry time but no dry on the quick | ||
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Post# 529690 , Reply# 36 7/9/2011 at 15:29 (4,845 days old) by logixx (Germany) |
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| Post# 529783 , Reply# 38 7/10/2011 at 13:15 (4,844 days old) by brastemp (Brazil) | ||
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In general my Brastemp (whirpool) Sixth Sense spends 1:30h to complete the normal cycle (45-55cº). 
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Post# 529863 , Reply# 39 7/10/2011 at 19:46 (4,844 days old) by appnut (TX) |
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My Kenmore Elite TT just did a china/Gentle cycle with low-energy/extra light soil sensed and incoming water temp at 140 (rare at my house and am doing whites/towels/sheets laundry) in 1:24, including heated dry. It didn't drain the pre-wash and main waash was only 20 minutes long, usually it's about 30 to 33 with my typical water temp of the water heater set at 120. Without heated dry, the time would have been about 55 minutes.
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Post# 529941 , Reply# 40 7/11/2011 at 05:46 (4,844 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie) |
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Barry---I tend to have a heavy hand with dishwasher detergent, as many of my loads contain at least a couple of pots/pans in them.
I did notice my inexpensive restaurant-style glassware seemed to be getting etched faster, so I countered that by setting my dishwasher to use full-power spray in the bottom rack, and gentle spray for the top rack when glassware is aboard. That seems to have nipped the problem in the bud. I can't imagine etching would be a problem---even with a longer 'normal' cycle---if I used the tiny amount of detergent recommended for soft water in my owner's manual. | ||
| Post# 529945 , Reply# 41 7/11/2011 at 06:21 (4,844 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA) | ||
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Detergent I used to measure out the powdered detergent at 1.5 tablespoons per load with a half tablespoon in the prewash compartment in the program chosen utilized it. That was until the measuring shotglass rolled out of the cabinet under the sink, fell the 3.5 inches to the floor and shattered into a thousand micro-pieces.
Now I just pour a guess and go.
Malcolm | ||
| Post# 529974 , Reply# 43 7/11/2011 at 11:16 (4,843 days old) by joe_in_philly (Philadelphia, PA, USA) | ||
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I can't believe how "cool" the wash temps are on new dishwashers. This higher end kitchenaid wash temp is 104F (40C)! The high temp wash option raises the wash temp to a tepid 120F(49C). The Sani Rinse option raises the wash temp to 130F(54C), and the Final Rinse from 140F(60C) to 155F(68C).
So does washing for an extended period of time at 104F clean off things like grease, cheese, and starches? My Bosch Regular cycle washes at 140F, and the Power Scrub cycle at 160F - with a heated pre-rinse. The rinses are 156F.
See pages 8 and 9 of the manual: CLICK HERE TO GO TO joe_in_philly's LINK | ||
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Post# 530625 , Reply# 44 7/14/2011 at 13:43 (4,840 days old) by logixx (Germany) |
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I read that, too.
Yes, they wash in pretty cool water! 120F for a High Temp wash. Our Bosch normally washes at 131 to 149F on the autoRegular cycle or 149 to 167F on autoHeavy, each time with a 104F pre-wash. ECO cycle washes at 120F with a cold pre-rinse. Final rinse is always at 158F. I think US manufacturers are trying to take this energy-efficiency a little too far in some cases.
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| Post# 531204 , Reply# 47 7/17/2011 at 16:30 (4,837 days old) by norgeway (mocksville n c ) | ||
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Just! Throw out the new and get a old Hobart built Kitchen Aid, preferably a KDS 15 -17, single wash arm, it will blast off burned on gunk from baking pans....in about 45 minutes! with about 12 gallons of water, to me water is cheaper than electricity!! | ||
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Post# 532582 , Reply# 50 7/24/2011 at 13:44 (4,830 days old) by PeterH770 (Marietta, GA) |
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 New Energy Star standards say that cycles will get even longer in January... CLICK HERE TO GO TO PeterH770's LINK | ||
| Post# 532584 , Reply# 51 7/24/2011 at 14:00 (4,830 days old) by pierreandreply4 (St-Bruno de montarville (province of quebec) canada) | ||
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so if i understand this correcly | ||
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Post# 532947 , Reply# 54 7/26/2011 at 15:21 (4,828 days old) by nmassman44 (Brooksville Florida) |
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One thing I did recently in fact was reprogram my Miele LaPerla dishwasher. If one has such a machine like moi here is what you do...with the machine off touch the clear button then turn the power on pad. Touch the clear button 5 times and hold it on the 5th time until you see the Technical screen pop up. From there one can adjust water usage as in Water Plus it will add 16 oz more water per fill if you select increase. Then one can adjust water temp in the wash and rinse cycles. Also shorten cycles if you need to. Then you can change country settings. Talk about wild I changed it to Austrailia and the cycles were very different, SEU meaning Southern Europe changes parameters as well. I went back to USA setting and I lost the soak setting for the Normal cycle.
Now to keep the settings hit power pad to turn off. To get into the service area hold the clear pad again with the machine off and touch the power pad on. now release the clear pad and touch it 3 times and hold it on the 3rd time and that will get you into the Service settings. You can see how many hours your dishwasher has logged in so far. Mine is at 3150 hours. Plus it will also show you faults. Very awesome machine! Oh and before I forget...you can add another rinse cycle to each cycle. | ||
| Post# 532959 , Reply# 55 7/26/2011 at 16:28 (4,828 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA) | ||
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Excella | ||
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Post# 532971 , Reply# 56 7/26/2011 at 16:52 (4,828 days old) by nmassman44 (Brooksville Florida) |
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Post# 533028 , Reply# 58 7/26/2011 at 17:47 (4,828 days old) by PeterH770 (Marietta, GA) |
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| Post# 533845 , Reply# 60 7/30/2011 at 21:23 (4,824 days old) by joe_in_philly (Philadelphia, PA, USA) | ||
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You don't have to pre-rinse when using a dishwasher without a food grinder. The filters collect the food particles during the wash so they are not recirculated, and flushes them down the drain. I do not pre-rinse, and my filter only needs to have items like twist ties and toothpicks removed. I only need to check it a couple times a year. I find the dishwashers without a food grinder clean better, as I never find little grains of food on the upturned bottom of mugs or other items that hold water, something I would find occassionally with dishwashers with a grinder.
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Post# 533979 , Reply# 62 7/31/2011 at 11:23 (4,823 days old) by nmassman44 (Brooksville Florida) |
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I dont agree with CU at all. With my Miele I dont pre-rinse but I am sensible about what I put into the machine. The filter top is cleaned by a jet under the lower arm. The cone filter area normally is clean when I check it. And I only check it when the machine tells me to and thats every 40 cycles. I have it set that way in the computer. I wouldnt give a machine a pass over if it didnt have a self clean filter. I would pass over one if it didnt have a filter and just washed in dirty water ala a D&M machine of the past. The GE system that had the filter in the back and the MultiOrbit wash arm did a fantastic job at washing. And even though it wasnt a 100% filtration system I was amazed at how well it could clean. I also loved the upper SuperRack. That rack could hold a ton of dishes and glasses.
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Post# 534038 , Reply# 64 7/31/2011 at 13:22 (4,823 days old) by nmassman44 (Brooksville Florida) |
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The GE dishwasher design with the tower has a cool sound that I love...I love when the jets from the tower hits the door and the swooshing sound it makes. My Miele is silent or mostly silent. The only time I hear it is when its draining and the wash pump is activating to wash the dishes. Then there is that little tick sound from the control when the wash arms are switching. The dishwasher also has an alert beep in case something goes wrong. It also lets me know if a wash arm is blocked. I love that feature. There isnt much of anything that I dont like with my Miele. I think its the perfect dishwasher.
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