Thread Number: 35760
Repair Advice: 1964 Frigidaire Imperial |
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Post# 533385 , Reply# 1   7/28/2011 at 12:15 (4,627 days old) by cuffs054 (MONTICELLO, GA)   |   | |
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First of all the repair is a boor and a cad! Call a real appliance guy maybe even Frig factory service and check. If it needs a new compressor so be it. It's cheaper than a new refrig. You should be able to tell if the compressor is running or not. |
Post# 533400 , Reply# 2   7/28/2011 at 12:55 (4,627 days old) by 65continental ()   |   | |
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The compressor runs, and the "flowing cold" blower seems to run as it should, shutting off when you open the fridge door. |
Post# 533401 , Reply# 3   7/28/2011 at 12:56 (4,627 days old) by rp2813 (Sannazay)   |   | |
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I agree with the cuffmeister. Try to find somebody who will at least diagnose the problem correctly so you know what you're up against. Do you know anybody who owns income property and has handyman & appliance repair contacts?
Since you've already visited the vintage fridge thread, you know that GE and Whirlpool fridges have better reliability if it comes down to replacing the Frigidaire.
So welcome to AW.org. Does your handle indicate that there are some car pix you should maybe post here? The best, most faithful car my dad ever owned was a '65 Continental. It ended up in Michigan, by the way . . .
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Post# 533421 , Reply# 4   7/28/2011 at 13:22 (4,627 days old) by cuffs054 (MONTICELLO, GA)   |   | |
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If you're sure the compressor is running and the evap and cond (if it has one) fans are running, sounds like low freon or struck defrost timer. You can check defrost timer yourself. If low freon you'll need a tech but I still say save it. |
Post# 533503 , Reply# 8   7/28/2011 at 16:45 (4,627 days old) by goatfarmer (South Bend, home of Champions)   |   | |
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Could be out of gas, or could be a bad compressor. Hard to tell from a distance, get a qualified tech, who wants to work on it.
BTW, the opinions expressed on the other thread about early Frigidaires is just that, OPINIONS. Personally, I think that the early 60's Frigidaires are some of the best refrigerators out there. They are no worse, or better, IMHO, than similar Whirlpool built, or GE built, refrigerators. My dad was a Frigidaire factory trained technician most of his life, I'm well aware of what came through the shop, or what we worked on back then. |
Post# 533521 , Reply# 9   7/28/2011 at 18:03 (4,627 days old) by PhilR (Quebec Canada)   |   | |
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I also have a 1964 Frigidaire 16 cu.ft. Imperial. I'd also like to get a replacement compressor for it because my other one works better but the 1964 is still in use in my kitchen...
I also think that the reliability /durability of older Frigidaire refrigerators isn't an issue but I they might be a bit harder to service than other brands (like many GM Frigidaire appliances). Failures happening in any 30+ (or 45+) years old appliances aren't caused by a lack of durability!
A friend of mine has kept his non working RCA Whirlpool bottom freezer refrigerator in his garage for many years. It's about the same age as my Frigidaire fridges and it's been dead for about 10 years (bad compressor). My parents also had an Inglis Whirlpool from the mid seventies that was noisy as hell when it was just a few years old and it also died quite a few years ago. GE fridges with the newer compressor don't last as long as older ones either.
Does your compressor makes noise? I have been told that the spring for the barrier in rotary compressors sometimes break, making the compressors more silent but totally ineffective!
What's the model number of your fridge? There are two models that are identical from outside in 1964 with different interiors. One has thin wall insulation and 16 cu-ft. and the other model has 14 cu-ft.
The picture shows the 16 cu-ft, the 14 cu-ft has a different inner door design and different shelves.
Unlike older GE fridges, Frigidaires don't use hot gas defrost. When the fridge is in defrost mode, the compressor and fan shuts down and a heater defrosts the condenser. So if you hear the compressor and fan, you know it's not the defrost timer. Be sure that you feel the air circulating from the ducts in the freezer and in the refrigerator (the outlet is behind the light cover in the center). To test that, just hold the door switch as if the door was closed with one of your hands (in the refrigerator section) and notice if there's any airflow.
Did the problem happen suddenly when the refrigerator was moved?
This post was last edited 07/28/2011 at 18:20 |
Post# 533535 , Reply# 10   7/28/2011 at 20:02 (4,627 days old) by pdub (Portland, Oregon)   |   | |
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Here is my experience so take it for what it's worth. I had an early 70's top freezer GM made refrigerator that worked when I bought it from a Craigslist seller but after I got it home it never worked again. I think the springs inside the compressor were brittle and broke during the move. I did everything they say you are supposed to do and waited a full 24 hours before restarting it. When I first turned it on all sounded fine but an hour later I went to check on it and it was warm. You could hear the compressor trying to start for about 5 seconds and then click, it would try again every few minutes. I checked the defrost timer like you did and then started calling tech's. Most of them told me over the phone it was not repairable and to get rid of it and save my money. One guy was willing to come out and he tested it and even put a replacement starter on the compressor but he said it could be a stuck piston because the compressor would not start. When I would ask how much to replace the compressor, not one single repair outfit would do it and most quoted more than the cost of a new refrigerator. They said once you break into the sealed system when replacing a compressor, contaminants getting inside would cause problems later and that it would be impossible to warranty the work. I was just glad I got someone to actually test it and verify that it wasn't some small fixable problem or just low on freon. In your case, I would have it checked by a professional and go from there before junking it.
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Post# 533559 , Reply# 13   7/28/2011 at 23:38 (4,627 days old) by rp2813 (Sannazay)   |   | |
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The airflow you describe is normal. It's typically much stronger in the freezer section than in the fresh food section.
While I only know the basics of refrigeration theory, it sounds to me like the compressor is good and is trying to do its job. On the flip side, if there's a refrigerant leak it could be anywhere in the system (I presume the high pressure side would be more suspect) and might be difficult to locate. |
Post# 533563 , Reply# 15   7/29/2011 at 01:41 (4,627 days old) by PhilR (Quebec Canada)   |   | |
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Was the refrigerator plugged and cold when you got it?
One possible source of refrigerant/oil leaks on the Meter-Miser compressors is the connections where the 3 electrical wires enter in the compressor. If you see oil traces there, it might be the place where the refrigerant leaked (if that's the problem).
The serviceman told you that "it was grounding out 12 volts"? I don't know what it means but maybe someone could explain it?
I wish you good luck and that you find someone to bring it back to life! If you don't, let me know before you scrap it, you might get a few bucks selling a few parts to me (and maybe to others!). |
Post# 533564 , Reply# 16   7/29/2011 at 01:59 (4,627 days old) by neptunebob (Pittsburgh, PA)   |   | |
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I believe it means that there is a partial break in the internal insulation inside the compressor case that is leaking some electricity to the outside of the case which "has grounding". As my instructor told that is different than "grounded" when there actually is electricity leaking. It may be possible that over the years some of the insulation material deteriorated. But I heard that this is more of a problem in newer units with 134a than with R12. More likely as I read somewhere, metal fatigue has set into the springs inside the case and when moved, even without much trauma, one of the springs broke. The article said for this reason it was better to leave a refrigerator with the house if you want it to last longer. The spring metal is more flexible when new, which is how the manufacturers could ship new refrigerators without damage.
I don't know if I can answer the question of who to replace the compressor. I would like to hear what happens. Seems to me it should be possible without contamination if they are EPA certified, flush the system with nitrogen and follow the right procedures.
I notice for its age, the inside seems to be in good condition so I would like you to keep it. Seems they must have used thicker metal, plastic, etc. It certainly is not like a Frigidaire today. My sister bought a Kenmore about 6 months ago and already, some of the inside parts have come apart.
One thing I would like to know: Did GM build their own compressor or did they use a vendor like Techumseh? Because if the latter, it should be easier to locate a modern compressor. |
Post# 533609 , Reply# 18   7/29/2011 at 10:48 (4,626 days old) by PhilR (Quebec Canada)   |   | |
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Bob,
GM had their own compressors. The one used in Mike's Frigidaire is a rotary type Meter-Miser 7/32 hp. I have heard that some people had theirs replaced with Tecumseh compressors but there's a lot involved in the replacement as there are just two mounting points for the Frigidaire compressor.
See this link for more details about Frigidaire rotary compressors. CLICK HERE TO GO TO PhilR's LINK |
Post# 533613 , Reply# 19   7/29/2011 at 11:46 (4,626 days old) by PhilR (Quebec Canada)   |   | |
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Have a look at this video to see the internals of a rotary Frigidaire compressor. This is a smaller one that was made in England Frigidaire used to have manufacturing plants all over the world, it was certainly the most internationally known of GM divisions. CLICK HERE TO GO TO PhilR's LINK |
Post# 533623 , Reply# 21   7/29/2011 at 13:58 (4,626 days old) by PhilR (Quebec Canada)   |   | |
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Post# 533653 , Reply# 23   7/29/2011 at 18:50 (4,626 days old) by goatfarmer (South Bend, home of Champions)   |   | |
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Post# 533657 , Reply# 24   7/29/2011 at 19:23 (4,626 days old) by simplicity345 (Aliquippa,Pa)   |   | |
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Dear Phil, Yes I Do I Will Email A Picture To You |
Post# 535832 , Reply# 26   8/9/2011 at 07:25 (4,615 days old) by cuffs054 (MONTICELLO, GA)   |   | |
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65Conti, What was the outcome? |
Post# 536111 , Reply# 28   8/10/2011 at 06:45 (4,614 days old) by cuffs054 (MONTICELLO, GA)   |   | |
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65Conti, Don't forget to check out the WS wiper system. If yours is driven off the power steering pump, take a look at hoses, etc. My 69 wipers were not terrific. |
Post# 536189 , Reply# 29   8/10/2011 at 13:55 (4,614 days old) by rp2813 (Sannazay)   |   | |
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Post# 536300 , Reply# 31   8/10/2011 at 23:11 (4,614 days old) by rp2813 (Sannazay)   |   | |
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Post# 536303 , Reply# 32   8/10/2011 at 23:21 (4,614 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)   |   | |
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Are beautiful and were once great refs, but they have not always aged well. If you have one that is working properly congratulations. After working on a couple dozen of these over the last 10 years or so I have found them to often have serious problems with maintaining proper temperatures, and these were the ones that appeared to work!. 65contential welcome to the world of free internet advice.
Cuffmeister has no idea what is wrong with your ref as he has no idea how it even works. Asking whether it is hot gas defrost or electric defrost. Frigidare never made hot gas defrost refs and if the compressor and inside fans are running it does not have a defrost timer problem, enough said.
Kenny my opinions may be just that to you but they do come from a lot of experience and it doesn't matter that your dad worked for Frigidare. I am talking about the here and know. These were once great working refs and nothing lasts forever.
65 continental I am afared that the repairman that looked at your ref is probably correct that the ref has a serious problem. He may not have put it very nicely but is is the only experienced repairman that has looked at it including me. I would consider a 2nd opinion before giving up on it but that is up to you Good Luck, let us know what happens. |
Post# 536337 , Reply# 33   8/11/2011 at 06:24 (4,613 days old) by cuffs054 (MONTICELLO, GA)   |   | |
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Geez, Combo, did someone pee in your Cherrios this morning? |
Post# 536556 , Reply# 34   8/12/2011 at 12:35 (4,612 days old) by PhilR (Quebec Canada)   |   | |
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'65 Continental,
If you want to do something by yourself before calling another tech (if the previous tech hasn't already done it), you can remove the freezer baskets (easy to do, you just need to roll them out and lift them up (you'll see there's a place where the rollers can go out of the tracks, one at a time). Then, you can remove the bottom tray and air duct to see the evaporator and condenser fan.
I have seen some that had melted during the defrost cycle, resulting in a melted fan (and plastic ducts). If you plug it once you see the evap, you at least could see what happens there when it runs! A Frigidaire serviceman once told me that the '63-'64 models were good ones. He didn't like the earlier ones with two blowers and a cold plate in the refrigerator section but there are still some working (and I plan getting a '62 soon!).
Unfortunately, what John told you is probably right but I still wouldn't give up too quickly if I were you. If you have space to keep it in a non-working condition until you find someone and the required parts to repair it, and if spending a few hundred bucks on it isn't an issue, you might get it going again! But first you have to find a tech that knows these! I like having things that are unique or unusual! I like old cars too and I like when they are unusual even if that means they are harder to repair or keep going! I take pride in having things that very few others have! Some old car fans like updating their rides with easy to mod and easy to repair Chevy engines (including a few friends of mine who have hotrods). I don't!
Have you looked for traces of oil/refrigerant leaks at the compressor connections and service port?
Finally, there's probably at least another "member" on this board with a working '64 Frigidaire. It's a 14 cu-ft Deluxe with bottom freezer but it's very similar to ours. I don't know if he still has it but I'd like to hear from him about it!
see:
CLICK HERE TO GO TO PhilR's LINK |
Post# 537079 , Reply# 35   8/15/2011 at 07:48 (4,609 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)   |   | |
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The 1964 and later single evaporator refs are a little less troublesome in regards to temperature balance between the ref and freezer sections. But I still see lots of sealed system problems and defrost problems as these age. It seems that any FF ref with a flat evaporator has more problems in the long run with defrost issues.
Phil R I am sure you meant to say when you suggested that 65 continental to remove the freezer floor to look at the evaporator fan and motor only, as the condenser fan motor [ if this model even has one ] is not accessible from inside the freezer. Also since you pictured it Robert's beautiful Frigidare ref is one of the many that I know of that is running all the time and is not functioning completely properly. I know of three other real appliance techs that have all struggled with and given up on thier 1960s bottom freezer Frigidares.
Phil R I do agree with you in that I do like to keep things as original as possible, and in fact it is hard to put newer compressors in these older Frigidares as they use a high side rotary compressor, where everything today uses a low side piston compressor. |
Post# 537112 , Reply# 36   8/15/2011 at 09:34 (4,609 days old) by PhilR (Quebec Canada)   |   | |
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John, My'63 Frigidaire is also a single evaporator refrigerator and it works great. The compressor cycles normally and it can get the freezer temp much below 0°F quickly.
As you're saying these do not have condenser fan motors. I meant evaporator fan motor, I guess was a bit tired when I wrote that! Those that have two fans are the pre-1963 models with cold plates in the refrigerator section (and they still have no condenser fan!). |
Post# 1101575 , Reply# 38   12/21/2020 at 22:10 (1,193 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)   |   | |
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Hi Jane, #1 or 2 is normal, but there's no wrong setting and if your ref and freezer is not cooling properly there is something wrong with it other than what ever setting you have it on.
If you give a good description of temperatures in each section and pictures of any ice accumulation etc we may be able to point you in the right direction to getting it working again.
John L. |
Post# 1101672 , Reply# 39   12/22/2020 at 17:52 (1,192 days old) by goatfarmer (South Bend, home of Champions)   |   | |
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