1958 Washer/Dryer combo

Hi Dex,

I don�t pretend to know everything about combo washer/dryers, but I�ll give it my best shot here�.

The Whirlpool combo (in the video) and the Kenmore / Lady Kenmore cousins both use the recirculating water spray as there is NO standing water in the tub/drum (unlike other FL washers). The water stays in a reservoir below, is sprayed onto the clothes and then drains back to the reservoir.

This design had VERY little (read: no) suspension, so the spin speed was limited to just 200 RPM. Because of this low RPM, water extraction is poor, so they packed in a lot of drying power. My 1959 Lady Kenmore combo (pink!) is gas and cranks out 37,000 BTU�s (today�s new dryers look to be 20,000 � 22,000 BTU�s)

This Whirlpool/Kenmore design was revised and improved in 1961 (I believe) adding a better suspension, a much better 525 RPM spin, a whole host of other changes and packed it into a smaller package. BTW, this design must have worked and sold well because it was available under the Kenmore/Lady Kenmore label from 1961 thru 1972 or so (I believe).

While nearly every manufacturer in the 50�s � early 60�s offered a �Combo�, many didn�t stay on the market long for one reason or another. One company that set the standard (and held a number of patents) through the 50�s anyway, was Bendix. The patent on their suspension system severely limited what other manufacturers were able to do with their designs, hindering their performance and/or reliability greatly.

My understanding is the newer Combos available here in the US (LG for example) have a VERY long total cycle time, something like 3.5 � 4 hours for wash & dry. I believe that�s because they use electric drying (as opposed to gas) and with the 120 volt power we have in the US, limits drying power and thus, speed. It�s like trying to dry a load of clothes with a 1200-1500 watt hair dryer. I don�t know if it makes any difference if the unit is vented, or non-vented (condensing) dryer. Correct me if I�m wrong, but *I think* a condensing dryer would take longer to dry.

Our regular, separate electric dryers are 220-240 volts (4400 � 5600 watts) and have �normal� drying times.

I hope this helps!

Kevin

P.S�. if you go back and look at the other videos I�ve up loaded, you will find videos for a 1965 Lady Kenmore combo and a 1957 or �58(?) Bendix Duo-matic (combo).

This post was last edited 08/10/2011 at 16:20


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Post# 536137 8/10/2011 at 09:50 (4,641 days old) by nrones ()
Checkrate/Likes Hello guys! I am really interested how those Washer/Dryers from late 50s worked? It doesnt seem to me that their system is the same like ones used from late 70s and today :) So, how were they drying, why does every single one of them has a power jet? Any more informations would be great! Here in the link is one of those that made me be interested ;) cheers, Dex CLICK HERE TO GO TO nrones's LINK

Post# 536212 , Reply# 1 8/10/2011 at 16:00 (4,641 days old) by RevvinKevin (Tinseltown - Shakey Town - La-La Land)
Checkrate/Likes *Hey, that�s my video!* Hi Dex, I don�t pretend to know everything about combo washer/dryers, but I�ll give it my best shot here�. The Whirlpool combo (in the video) and the Kenmore / Lady Kenmore cousins both use the recirculating water spray as there is NO standing water in the tub/drum (unlike other FL washers). The water stays in a reservoir below, is sprayed onto the clothes and then drains back to the reservoir. This design had VERY little (read: no) suspension, so the spin speed was limited to just 200 RPM. Because of this low RPM, water extraction is poor, so they packed in a lot of drying power. My 1959 Lady Kenmore combo (pink!) is gas and cranks out 37,000 BTU�s (today�s new dryers look to be 20,000 � 22,000 BTU�s) This Whirlpool/Kenmore design was revised and improved in 1961 (I believe) adding a better suspension, a much better 525 RPM spin, a whole host of other changes and packed it into a smaller package. BTW, this design must have worked and sold well because it was available under the Kenmore/Lady Kenmore label from 1961 thru 1972 or so (I believe). While nearly every manufacturer in the 50�s � early 60�s offered a �Combo�, many didn�t stay on the market long for one reason or another. One company that set the standard (and held a number of patents) through the 50�s anyway, was Bendix. The patent on their suspension system severely limited what other manufacturers were able to do with their designs, hindering their performance and/or reliability greatly. My understanding is the newer Combos available here in the US (LG for example) have a VERY long total cycle time, something like 3.5 � 4 hours for wash & dry. I believe that�s because they use electric drying (as opposed to gas) and with the 120 volt power we have in the US, limits drying power and thus, speed. It�s like trying to dry a load of clothes with a 1200-1500 watt hair dryer. I don�t know if it makes any difference if the unit is vented, or non-vented (condensing) dryer. Correct me if I�m wrong, but I think a condensing dryer would take longer to dry. Our regular, separate electric dryers are 220-240 volts (4400 � 5600 watts) and have �normal� drying times. I hope this helps! Kevin P.S�. if you go back and look at the other videos I�ve up loaded, you will find videos for a 1965 Lady Kenmore combo and a 1957 or �58(?) Bendix Duo-matic (combo). This post was last edited 08/10/2011 at 16:20

Post# 536219 , Reply# 2 8/10/2011 at 16:28 (4,641 days old) by nrones ()
Checkrate/Likes *Wow :D* How much did it needed to dry a load spun at 200 rpm? Forever? lol I am so interested in those WD's, because in one of my relations with Candy, they said they were first (along with Miele) in 1978/79, but it seems they were first ones to do that in Europe, or first ones to make a modern washer/dryers that work electric, with condensation. (and at least 800rpm spin xD) in dimensions of a normal washers :P Yeah.. new WD's are taking ages to wash and dry, just because today they are drying the same amount as tumble dryers, but in smaller drum, with less clothes movement, so it takes longer, and yes, it is literally like you've put a hair dryer on top of the drum, however after air being into the drum, there is whole system for condensation :) Thanks for the info :) Dex

Post# 536292 , Reply# 3 8/10/2011 at 21:24 (4,641 days old) by jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)
Checkrate/Likes *Candy is bojack in their claims* the Combo was invented by Bendix Home Appliances in 1949 here in the US. Anyone else making that claim has to come up against the direct patent evidence here first! Lets kill that notion that the Combo was invented in Europe at all! Europe adopted it much quicker than the US did but that is its only claim! Condenser drying is very quick and very good for wool and cottons that tend to shrink in air blow dryers and most everything else , where it falls down is on poorly made clothing that has cheap dyes stuffs and will cause 'Crocking" , the dye will wipe across the rest of the load at the high heat and humidity of condenser drying.

Post# 536325 , Reply# 4 8/11/2011 at 04:08 (4,640 days old) by nrones ()
Checkrate/Likes *I think* Candy claimed to be first european manufacturer to have a WD combo, or launch it in the European market, but I mis-understood it.. they didn't mean first WD worldwide! Sorry about that Well, to be honest I don't know if Condensing, or vented is better, I am not going well with machine drying at all.. I have a Whirlpool (EU whirlpool) vented dryer, and I must admit I am fighting with it every time I use it, because I miss the time, or clothes just don't smell fresh, but I will get along with it.. eventually.. sometimes xD Cheers, Dex

Post# 536331 , Reply# 5 8/11/2011 at 05:59 (4,640 days old) by jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)
Checkrate/Likes *Dex* does your washer-dryer have a timed cycle or a dryness sensor or both? I have learned with my Combos an average load 9# = 4.5kg dries in about 35-45 minutes. Jeans take a bit longer. My 1950's combos are all timed dry there was no sensor back then.

Post# 536339 , Reply# 6 8/11/2011 at 06:48 (4,640 days old) by Tomturbomatic (Beltsville, MD)
Checkrate/Likes As for the clothes not smelling fresh from the dryer, you have to remember that they are dried in air pulled from the environment around the dryer. If there are cooking, painting or smoking fumes, the clothes will smell like those fumes when dried in an air flow dryer. Jeff had neighbors, both of whom smoked, who hated to use their dryer because of the way it made the clothes smell. HELLO; they smelled like the house. Open a window near the dryer and it might help how the clothes smell. One thing abaout Jon's Duomatic's condensing dryer systems and the time required to dry clothes in them: Not only was the Duomatic the only combination to thoroughly extract water from the load so that no water could be squeezed from the load after spinning, the Duomatic also had a very, very good condenser for the dryer. In the 36 inch models, it took up a lot of space, but it worked very well. It is a porcelain tube rising from a chamber below the actual outer tub and has a spray of water descending the length of the tube and spreading out across the bottom of the chamber where the heated air first meets the condensing water while a circulator fan pulls the steamy air upward past increasingly cooler water. Many combos attempted to perform condensation without an air circulator and just had a curtain of cold water flowing down one side of the outer tub or a portion of it and depended on the rotation of the drum and the movement of the clothes within it to move the air within the drying chamber. GE gave improved tumbling and air movement as the reason for going from a 4 baffle drum to one with 6 baffles when they changed the machine from the early model with the transmission to the later design with the variable sheeve pulley speed changer system. The efficiency of all condenser systems drops with the increasing temperature of the cooling medium. Jon is fortunate, in some ways, in that his cold water remains cold year around. In many places in the Southern part of the United States, the cold water temperature rises to close to 100F during the summer. That plays hell with the drying ability of condensing dryers.

Post# 536354 , Reply# 7 8/11/2011 at 08:33 (4,640 days old) by nrones ()
Checkrate/Likes *Thanks guys!* Sorry, I missed somewhere, but I said I wasnt going well with machine drying in both cases if drying in WD combo or in tumble dryer only :) My whirlpool is a Vented tumble dryer, simple as possible, has a low heat option and a timer... and it takes 90minutes to dry a 5kg load (spun at 1200rpm). Actually about what you say where is the dryer placed, in the video (link) you can exactly see where it is (just scroll down near the end of the vid) - it can't suck in nothing but fresh air! P.S I hope people wouldn't mind because we are talking about dryer less than 20 year old ;) CLICK HERE TO GO TO nrones's LINK

Post# 536879 , Reply# 8 8/14/2011 at 06:34 (4,637 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands)
Checkrate/Likes Candy sure wasn't the first to introduce a modern washer/dryer combo in Europe and neither was Miele. Bosch already had washer/dryers in the sixties. And I also remember Matura having washer/dryer combo's much earlier. And IIRC those Matura's spun with at least 800rpm too.