Thread Number: 36389
new Bosch dishwasher - my opinion
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Post# 542061   9/6/2011 at 18:09 (4,477 days old) by ZsaZsa ()        

I recently bought a Bosch dishwasher (mile-long model number beginning with she4...) that's in the $800 price range. I don't like it so much. I had a feeling I wouldn't like the lack of a heating element but bought it anyway for its reliability ratings. It's always damp inside and the dishes never really dry like they did in my heated one. So if you're shopping for a new dishwasher and you like your clean dishes HOT and DRY, steer clear.
Zsa Zsa

Post# 542071 , Reply# 1   9/6/2011 at 19:10 (4,476 days old) by appnut (TX)        

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AzaAza, your kitchenaid baked the dishes dry with very high temperature heat from the heating element. A big nono these days. Bosches are notorious for not having very good frying results. But it shouldn't be blamed on the lack of a heating element in the bottom of the tub. Many other european design macihnes dry quite well. Are you using rinse agent? Does your model have an option for extra hot rinse or extra dry or something like that? Many Bosch's in this price range have an option whereby you can increase the temperature of the final rinse water even higher than "normal", wihch is 150 to 155 degrees, and that should help with the drying results. also, what cycle are you using?

Post# 542075 , Reply# 2   9/6/2011 at 19:29 (4,476 days old) by nmassman44 (Brooksville Florida)        

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My 3 cents.... With these dishwashers one needs to use rinse aid like Jet Dry Turbo. The Bosch dishwasher does have a heating element, you can't see it since in the pump housing. This machine should be able to heat the final rinse to 150 degrees. One thing you can do is when the dishwasher is done after the last rinse, is open the door to flash dry your load. I have a Miele dishwasher that uses a closed system and it uses the Clean Dry system that works really well. But it works well since I use rinse aid.
So don't write this machine off just yet. Give it what it needs to perform for you.

Post# 542076 , Reply# 3   9/6/2011 at 19:30 (4,476 days old) by MikeS ()        
We Love Our New Bosch

Because I'm moving in with my partner, I urged him to get rid of his non-working 15-year-old Maytag dishwasher and an inept BOL InSinkErator disposal. He and I purchased a bottom-of-the-line Bosch and a new ISE Evolution compact disposal.
We were pleasantly suprised with the results. On its maiden run this past weekend, the Bosch cleaned a full load of dishes to perfection, and dried them thoroughly. Even silverware that looked clean came out shiny. (We used Finish Quantum packets; a 50-load supply came with the dishwasher. We also used Finish Jet Dry with the machine's dispenser set for medium.)
I was also surprised at how quiet the Bosch was; for a few minutes, I thought the machine wasn't working. By comparison, the BOL Roper dishwasher in my old condo drowned out the TV set!
I'm also happy with the ISE Evolution; it's quiet yet gobbles down the daily food remains without complaint.
BTW, our Lowes store installed both appliances without a problem. Count me as a happy Bosch/ISE user!

Post# 542082 , Reply# 4   9/6/2011 at 19:38 (4,476 days old) by stevet (West Melbourne, FL)        
Higher temps = better results!

Zsa Zsa,
I have to agree 100% with what Bob has already said in his response.
I have a Kitchenaid tall tub with the stainless tank and a good insulation package and it will dry much better if I select the Hi temp wash option on any cycle it is available on and it dries even better if I use the Sani rinse option. It extends the cycle times (due to loss of water temp with pipes under my slab) but the results can be dramatic.

I also had a 1990's vintage Bosch machine which lacked a drying element and it did noticebly better on the normal cycle than on the economy cycle and best on the heavy duty cycle which ran at 160 degrees. That machine dried better than my current Kitchenaid. And as Bob Appnut says, you have to use the rinse agent for best results.

I really do think whatever miniscule extra electricity is needed to get the results you want is definitely worth it. Lord knows you are barely using any water and probably half as much as your old Kitchenaid did not to mention the total power usage. ( but the dishes did always come out dry! LOL)

Now if you bought your machine at Lowes, Home Depot or other big box store, don't they have a 30 day satisfaction guarantee? If you don't like the machine, give it back!

Post# 542184 , Reply# 5   9/7/2011 at 09:03 (4,476 days old) by RE563 (Fort Worth, Texas)        

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I have a bosch in Florida. I know on the new ones this is different, but on mine every full cycle the machine will always heat the final rinse water to 155 degrees, and rinsed them long enough to be "sanitized". I think the new ones still do this, but it doesn't rinse long enough so that dishes are "sanitized". They dry time is very short, Mine was like 10 mins. I do know that you can set the controls to signal you when the cycle is complete at which time you can open the door and dishes will be totally dry in like 5 mins and you will be able to handle them in like 15 mins. Most Bosch dishwashers are pretty straight forward with only cycle selection.

Post# 542193 , Reply# 6   9/7/2011 at 10:02 (4,476 days old) by mieleforever (SOUTH AFRICA)        
We have a Siemens and

it is basically the same as the Bosch, and the amount of water and electricity that the machine uses versus results is really good. It is extremely frugal but still the end results is very good, the little bit of water that is left on indents on crockery is no big issue. We wash pot and pans in ours as well, I think the more that I read about appliances the difference between American made and European made becomes more and more clear. American appliances is energy and resource hogs, whereas their European counterparts is much more efficient with less pollutants. We should all consider the amount of damage that has already been done to the planet and try to make a concious effort to try and minimise the impact we have on the environment and stop complaining about a few water droplets on dishes.


Post# 542205 , Reply# 7   9/7/2011 at 11:20 (4,476 days old) by PassatDoc (Orange County, California)        

I have a ten year old MOL Bosch dishwasher. It was one of the first "Intregra design" (hidden controls in door rim) models, but otherwise is basic entry level with only three cycles: Quick Wash, Regular, and PowerScrubPlus. The latter two are "NSF certified" (= sanitizes). Wash/Final Rinse temps for Regular cycle are 150/155, and 161/161 for PowerScrubPlus. Quick Wash is 104/140. It has never had any repair or service issues at all.

You MUST use rinse agent in a Bosch. Otherwise, water won't move off the dishes and onto the steel sides. Note: it is NORMAL for the tub sides to be wet at the end of cycle. The machine dries by water evaporation off the dishes and condensing on the steel sides of the tub. For this to happen, you must use rinse agent. I use JetDry liquid (regular) and Finish 3-in-1 Powerball tabs (both from Costco). I get excellent results every time. If I am in the kitchen when cycle completes, I will open the door to let out moisture, but most of the time I am either asleep or not at home when cycle completes, and everything---except the tub walls---is dry when I open the machine hours later.

Most, if not all, modern Bosch models have an indicator light that goes on when you need to add Rinse Agent. My older model has a rinse agent level indicator in the door near the soap dispenser, so I have to remember to check it manually. If you don't use rinse agent, your Bosch will NOT work properly.

Post# 542436 , Reply# 8   9/8/2011 at 15:55 (4,475 days old) by ZsaZsa ()        

Thanks for your suggestions. I've done some loads with rinse agent, some without. I'll experiment again. I know this machine does have a high heat option.
Appnut, I liked frying my dishes! ;)

Post# 542467 , Reply# 9   9/8/2011 at 19:24 (4,474 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        

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Return it and get a Kenmore standard tub ultra-wash DW it is less than half the money you paid for the BDW and it is by far the closest thing to a classic KA DW in every way. The Boschs small capacity and smelly dampness will never get any better but you may eventually get used to a lower standard of DW performance just as millions of other people around the world have done.

Post# 542861 , Reply# 10   9/10/2011 at 22:09 (4,472 days old) by PhilR (Quebec Canada)        

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A friend gave me a late-nineties BOL Bosch SMU 2000 dishwasher that needed a few repairs (I replaced a wire that was cut at the door opening, the rollers for the upper rack and the pilot light for the on/off switch (with a pilot light from an old Flair range that I parted out). After that, I still didn't feel it had enough GM Frigidaire content to be worth keeping it Wink so I gave it to my parents to replace their old WP-built Kenmore dishwasher (which worked fine but it had rusted racks). The Bosch is very silent and it has an exposed heating element which dries the dishes nicely but it seems to take forever to wash them. Since I'm not used to new (or should I say less than 30 years old!) appliances, are all newer dishwashers that slow or is this an Euro thing?

Post# 542921 , Reply# 11   9/11/2011 at 07:46 (4,472 days old) by PassatDoc (Orange County, California)        

My 2001 MOL Bosch requires about two hours for Regular cycle and 2 1/2 hours for PowerScrubPlus cycle. Quick Wash takes only 30 minutes. It will work for lightly soiled loads (say, 12 people come over for coffee and cake or for light brunch). Current Bosch's do not have exposed heating elements. In addition, the heating element is used to heat water, but is not part of the drying cycle. Bosch dries its dished by evaporation, with the water condensing on the steel tub sides. For this to happen, it is imperative to use rinse agent. There is no "Heated Drying" or "Energy Saver Drying" option, which is one reason why most Bosch models have enjoyed rebates from power companies: a "heated drying" option is not possible.

Post# 542924 , Reply# 12   9/11/2011 at 07:59 (4,472 days old) by ozzie908 (Lincoln UK)        
Its a Euro thing

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As most of our machines are cold fill it heats as it washes that sort of time sounds about right to me :) My washer has been on a whites heavy soil with prewash and that was 3.5 hours its just about to do the last spin can't argue though everything will be spotless and white..!


Post# 542931 , Reply# 13   9/11/2011 at 08:26 (4,472 days old) by rapunzel (Sydney)        
"American appliances is energy and resource hogs"

By how much?

Post# 543053 , Reply# 14   9/11/2011 at 16:28 (4,472 days old) by PassatDoc (Orange County, California)        

Clarification: my cycle times (2 hours for Regular, 2.5 hours for PowerScrubPlus) are for my machine with dual (hot and cold) water fill. Hot water line temp is 135-140F (60 C or so), so in order to reach the wash/rinse temps of 150 to 161F, the heater does heat the water---but not from cold. With our 120V power, heating from cold would take forever. In addition, heating water with natural gas costs 14/ to 1/3 the cost to heat with electricity, so it's far more cost efficient to use gas-heated water and then boost it the final 10-15 F with electricity.

Of course, with cold water fill only, the cycle times would be longer, whether with 240V or 120V.

This post was last edited 09/11/2011 at 18:23
Post# 543119 , Reply# 15   9/11/2011 at 20:08 (4,471 days old) by Ironrite ()        

Zsa Zsa, check the owner's manual for the high heat rinse setting. I've done that with my Bosch and it works very well. Some plastics will still have a bit of water, but to me that's better than having them melt on exposed heaters. We've had ours since 2004. Do periodically check the filter in the bottom depending on your water and usage. I'll clean mine with Limeaway. We've got really hard water and I'll use Lemishine to keep the insides looking good.

Mike, I usually get my Quantum at Target. Find they have decent prices on it and sometimes on sale. Also at somepoint be prepared to take a Bosch shower. I've more than once opened the door while it was running and got sprayed.

Post# 543155 , Reply# 16   9/11/2011 at 23:13 (4,471 days old) by Mikes ()        

Well, Ironrite, my partner and I have 47 Quantum packs left from the free supply that came with our new Bosch. Since he works at one of the major club stores, I'm not worried about keeping up with dish soap when we need it--whether it's Finish Quantum or Powerball, or Cascade Complete. So far, Quantum is doing a fine job, as is the Bosch.

Post# 543206 , Reply# 17   9/12/2011 at 09:08 (4,471 days old) by PassatDoc (Orange County, California)        

I descale my DW quarterly with about 1/3 cup powdered citric acid run on Regular or PowerScrub cycle. It looks sparkling clean afterward, but what I'm really after is to keep scale off the pump and hydraulic system. I do it at each change of season, meaning it's due to be done at the end of this month. I do likewise with my FL washer.

Post# 543210 , Reply# 18   9/12/2011 at 09:15 (4,471 days old) by PassatDoc (Orange County, California)        
oops my bad

My DW is single fill---hot water only. But what I wrote about the DW heating the water from hot water line temperature to require wash or rinse temp remains true. Most of the work is done by the central gas hot water heater, since we're not heating from cold water. The DW heater boosts the temp by 10-20F/5-10C.

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