Thread Number: 36657
Is Less More?
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Post# 545491   9/23/2011 at 20:49 (4,569 days old) by mixfinder ()        

When using a vintage automatic washer as a daily driver which prolongs it's life?  Washing normal to smaller loads more often or washing Bob loads less frequently.  I tend to think 20 normal loads are less strain on the machine than 10 Bob loads.  Am I all wet?





Post# 545499 , Reply# 1   9/23/2011 at 21:14 (4,569 days old) by arbilab (Ft Worth TX (Ridglea))        

arbilab's profile picture
That shot looks box-new. Schweet. A classic Tag is like looking at laundry and saying 'let's party'. (Jeff Spicoli, Fast Times at Ridgemont High)

I always underload. Cleans better that way too. Specially on single-rinse machines. I bought a working 70s Tag (avocado) from a shop in 1988 and it ran 10 more years.


Post# 545502 , Reply# 2   9/23/2011 at 21:24 (4,569 days old) by appnut (TX)        

appnut's profile picture
Even the Master himself, if he had a vintage machine as a daily driver, would slightly underload it normally, a "BobLoad" for that vintage Daily Driver would be considered reasonably full by anyone's standards, not "BobLoaded" as I would have done when it was brand new and not considered vintage.

Post# 545518 , Reply# 3   9/23/2011 at 22:16 (4,569 days old) by ronhic (Canberra, Australia)        
IMHO

ronhic's profile picture

...it is always better to slightly underload any machine - Top or Front load, vintage or non-vintage.

 

You get much better mechanical action, less linting from fabric interaction and better rinsing.

 

I'd be prepared to bet that part of the reason so many of these older machines have lasted so well is not all down to their components, but to some degree, down to the way the owners used them and that the salesperson that sold the machines years ago knew more about what and how than the spotty youth selling one today.....

 

Mind, it didn't hurt that these were BIG purchases and folks expected both knowledge AND service and were prepared to listen to what was said....today, many people really do think they know everything...both salesperson and prospective purchaser...


Post# 545554 , Reply# 4   9/24/2011 at 05:39 (4,569 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        
Cannot Speak For "Vintage" Front Loaders

launderess's profile picture
But any such machine made say after 1980's or even 1970's are designed to give excellent washing performance at rated load capacity. In days past all sorts of scales were sold as an accessory to Madame's laundry room so she could put the proper amount of wash in the machine.

Have been told on numerous occasions by several repairmen that front loaders will last longer and give better service generally if normal loads are at rated capacity. The rationale behind this is that the washers are desgined to balance such loads before spinning. Under loading often leads to unbalanced loads and the resultant shaking/vibrations over time can damage the machine even if every so slightly each time.

My Miele for instance is rock soild on spinning and quite quiet when loaded at capacity, especially using high spin speeds. With smaller loads one often notices the machine taking more time to properly balance loads and sometimes simply gives up and goes with the situation on the ground.


Post# 545556 , Reply# 5   9/24/2011 at 06:06 (4,569 days old) by ronhic (Canberra, Australia)        

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Whilst I agree with you in the main, 'slightly underload' for 90% of modern front load machines where capacity is shown by weight (that is most of the world outside of nth America) this would mean the drum would still be 'full' in most consumers minds.

Interestingly, British consumer magazine 'Which?' test at 80% of claimed capacity which is probably more representative of how most use them and also helps take account of stupid capacity claims. On the other hand, our consumer magazine 'Choice', test at full capacity AND on the coldest setting...and apply a penalty to scores where cold isn't the minimum temperature!

Choice have found that to fill to claimed capacity often means forcing the last items in....not good for wash performance, possibly ok for fabric wear as it's hard to create wear if there is no movement! Famously, one American brands capacity claim some years ago was so grossly overstated that the lid on the machine was held open at a 30 degree angle with washing spewing out....

As a result, slightly under filling compared to the stated capacity will still mean a full drum - just not stuffed!



Post# 545580 , Reply# 6   9/24/2011 at 09:13 (4,568 days old) by DaveAMKrayoGuy (Oak Park, MI)        
"WEIGHING IN" w/ My 'Two-Cents':

daveamkrayoguy's profile picture
I usually wash "Large" as opposed to "Extra Large" wash loads except in rarest occasions (such as doing blankets & bed sheets)...

That is generally how much laundry a typical load makes (although it's usually TWO LOADS broken down--which would be "TOO LARGE loads" for my washer to do safely & efficiently & in good health)...

That said, it is beneficiary for all the above reasons to make this my "regular washing recipe" for "a typical load"...


-- Dave


Post# 545581 , Reply# 7   9/24/2011 at 09:58 (4,568 days old) by westingman123 ()        
strictly anecdotal evidence

Mama always washed smaller loads, more often. Her 1963 Whirlpool lasted until I graduated high school in 1982. I bought her a new Whirlpool that year, and it remains in service today. Judge for thyself.

Post# 545587 , Reply# 8   9/24/2011 at 11:01 (4,568 days old) by LordKenmore (The Laundry Room)        

lordkenmore's profile picture

"But any such machine made say after 1980's or even 1970's are designed to give excellent washing performance at rated load capacity."

 

I'm not entirely sure this is 100% true. I have had the misfortune of living with an early 90s Frigidaire twice. Both machines only appeared to work adequately when underloaded.

 

Of course, things are probably different for a better modern washer.


Post# 545606 , Reply# 9   9/24/2011 at 15:13 (4,568 days old) by brummybear (Birmingham uk)        
Fussy LG

brummybear's profile picture
I have an 11KG front loading LG. It simply won't spin unless it's full. ( 2 years old)
My two 25 year old hoptpoint top loders never seem to minde what I do to them whether they are stuffed stupid or just have a small lode they just do !


Post# 545642 , Reply# 10   9/24/2011 at 20:45 (4,568 days old) by yogitunes (New Jersey)        

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I was always told by repairmen to wash full water level loads, its the lower levels that put a strain on the system that cause premature wear and tear.....

not sure if this is true......but thats all my mother would do, and let the machine rest for about 20 minutes between loads....never overloading.....hers was a 1963 GE filterflo that would not die!

your mileage may vary


Post# 545709 , Reply# 11   9/25/2011 at 07:58 (4,568 days old) by DaveAMKrayoGuy (Oak Park, MI)        

daveamkrayoguy's profile picture
One thing that I will say 'bout smaller loads:

There is LESS to FOLD!

Depends, usually on how many SOCKS you care to match up, too...!


-- Dave


Post# 545712 , Reply# 12   9/25/2011 at 08:26 (4,568 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
IS LESS MORE?

combo52's profile picture

Usually not. The more loads you run the shorter the life of the machine will be. A Timer, an Inlet Valve. the main motor, the water pump, the main seals, the electrical switches and wiring will all only last so many loads. Almost any piece of equipment will last longest if used as intended. And not only will a washer last longer if loaded fully it will often clean better as there is better friction between the agitator and other clothes and the load will also spin better as there is enough clothing to balance properly which puts much less stress on the suspension system.

 

Over the years we have always noticed that the households where there is someone doing twice as many loads as necessary for the family size that the washers last about half as long. We often see this in households where thier is a full time housekeeper that is always washing something. As compared to the busy mother that only gets around to washing clothes when everything is dirty and then does a few big loads. We have noticed that the latter user will have a fraction of the washer and dryer problems.


Post# 545729 , Reply# 13   9/25/2011 at 10:25 (4,567 days old) by Unimatic1140 (Minneapolis)        

unimatic1140's profile picture
I only wash full loads in my machines, it is better, but full means good turnover. I never, ever overload any of my machines. I've actually taken a piece or two out after agitation has begun if I think the movement is restricted in any way.

Also overloading the washer usually means clothes will come out wrinkled from the dryer, they need room to tumble freely. I can wash five pair of jeans (size 30/30 and 30/32) in the 1940s GE AW6, which final spins them at 1140rpm for 9 minutes and they come out 100% wrinkle free after drying. When I used to have the GE Harmony washer, spinning at 1000rpm for 10 minutes washed 11 pair of jeans and dried them all in one load they would come out quite wrinkled.


Post# 545734 , Reply# 14   9/25/2011 at 10:50 (4,567 days old) by mixfinder ()        
Clarifying

My question was based on washing at the full water level and whether or not twice as many "reasonable" loads were less stress than half as many "Bob" loads.  Robert answered it well and John brought up a point I ovelooked.  I had expected wear and tear was on the drive mechanisms only when its a plethora of internal component working in symphony.  Someone once told my mother to always let the dryer fully cool down between loads and recommended waiting an hour between each load.  Its something you forget until her regression brings up a new hot button from years ago.

Kelly


Post# 545753 , Reply# 15   9/25/2011 at 12:38 (4,567 days old) by LordKenmore (The Laundry Room)        

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I have generally preferred doing roughly full loads--maximum water level, but probably slight underloading of clothes. I have assumed, I guess, that cleaning performance could be the best with a full load since the machine is designed with X capacity. Sort of like how many 12 cup coffee makers can make 4 cups, but seem to produce worse results at 4 cups than they do at 12.

 

BUT one issue has been a problem--there have been plenty of times when I just don't have enough of one item to ever generate a full load. I tend to sort aggressively--maybe with obsession/compulsion. Not just color, but also I consider the type of item. Some people might have no problem washing, say, ten pairs of white underwear with the white kitchen towels to get a full load. That is not something you would find me doing.

 

One thing I like about vintage washers is the capacity was so much smaller. It makes it easier for a single person (like me) to get a full load (even with aggressive sorting AND with no insane quantity of "similar" type clothes kept in a quantity only to be sure of filling up a huge modern machine).

 

 


Post# 545773 , Reply# 16   9/25/2011 at 15:56 (4,567 days old) by arbilab (Ft Worth TX (Ridglea))        

arbilab's profile picture
Sort of like how many 12 cup coffee makers can make 4 cups, but seem to produce worse results at 4 cups than they do at 12.
==========================================

Know why that is? Because almost a whole cup comes out before the basket and grounds are up to reaction temperature. With 12c the effect is not 'too' noticeable, but with 4 it is and with 1 it's undrinkable.

I make 1c in a 12c machine. Here's the trick. Boil a pan of water. Toss it in the basket and lower the filter and grounds into the hot water. By the time it drains out it will smell like coffee. Now snap the basket into the machine and energize.


Post# 545788 , Reply# 17   9/25/2011 at 18:21 (4,567 days old) by mixfinder ()        
Electronic Sorting

I am in agreement with Lord Kenmore regarding sorting.  I sort by color, weight and soil and have elevated the laundry process to an art form.  With the Maytag center dial dryer the choices were Regular, Permanent Press, Damp Dry and Air Fluff.  In order to work at optimal performance the clothes need to come dry at the same time, otherwise you end up with fried panties and damp bath towels.


Post# 545817 , Reply# 18   9/25/2011 at 21:56 (4,567 days old) by AutowasherFreak ()        

When I was using my Maytag A606 I always slightly underloaded it. My mom taught me never to overload a machine, and this was when she was still using her Maytag wringer.


Post# 545826 , Reply# 19   9/25/2011 at 22:25 (4,567 days old) by appnut (TX)        

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Kelly, I sort exactly like you, but I don't include soil level in the sorting process, I guess because most of my stuff doesn't get all that dirty.  If there were lots of yardwork clothes and such, I'd wash them separately.  Same with cleaning rags.  As far as a load consisting of all the same pretty much similar weight of fabrics, that is corrrect.  I got that all the way back either in 1965 or 192.  the "occassion" was for one of the two LK Combos the family next door had through the years, she was complaininng about some tings not coming out dry.  As the service man delved further into her habits, he told her her loads needed to be of similar weight so they would dry evenly all together. 


Post# 545841 , Reply# 20   9/26/2011 at 00:02 (4,567 days old) by arbilab (Ft Worth TX (Ridglea))        

arbilab's profile picture
Narrowing it some, I might throw everything in the washer together. FLs do better balancing full loads and nothing I own bleeds color. But I don't pull 'everything' out of the washer and throw it in the dryer. I sort dryer loads by dry time. It's a compact 120V dryer so it's inefficient to toss everything in it at once.

Post# 545844 , Reply# 21   9/26/2011 at 01:30 (4,567 days old) by petek (Ontari ari ari O )        

petek's profile picture
Thankgod for the GE Mini-basket and Mini Wash setting !!!!

Post# 545875 , Reply# 22   9/26/2011 at 07:51 (4,567 days old) by yogitunes (New Jersey)        

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I agree with Petek....I use that mini-basket more than ever...once you have one, it's hard to break away....

but I also like my FL neptunes, I am not wasting alot of water and energy, even if only doing a few pieces.....


Post# 545882 , Reply# 23   9/26/2011 at 08:54 (4,566 days old) by kenwashesmonday (Carlstadt, NJ)        

When using an older Maytag like the one shown, fill it up, it won't hurt it at all. I believe a full machine gets the clothes cleaner than an underloaded machine. If your Maytag can rinse well in the two minutes allotted it's not overloaded. My A606 will wash 20 pocket T-shirts no sweat.

Ken D.


Post# 546030 , Reply# 24   9/27/2011 at 07:21 (4,566 days old) by beekeyknee (Columbia, MO)        

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In my Maytag 806 I most always wash a full load. I consider that to be to the bottom edge of the filter insert with bulky items like jeans. I always drop the clothes in; never push them down. I mix jeans that don't bleed any longer with other colors like t-shirts, button downs, underwear, etc., together as I think a mixed load washes better for balance and the metal buttons and rivets have something to help keep them from rubbing the inside of the machine. I also zip and button my jeans before washing. I usually wash these in warm wash/cold rinse.

If a new item isn't colorfast, I might wash it with similar or darker colors for the first few times until the bleeding stops. After that, if I wash a blue item that isn't colorfast with, say, a shirt that is mostly colored but has a white stripe in it, I don't worry about it as a dab of blue dye in the wash will serve as an optical brightener, as long as the blue item doesn't directly transfer color anymore. If there is a new item that transfers colors I don't let them sit in the washer. I remove them immediately to the dryer.

All of my towels are color-fast. I wash towels and tea towels together and add a cup of bleach during the last two min. of the wash to the bleach dispenser and close the lid quickly, as this is not a timed dispenser and I don't want full strength bleach to come into direct contact with the fabric. The same for white t-shirts, underwear, and even white t-shirts that are silk-screened. I may not bleach white silk-screens every time, depending on the dirt or stains. The silk-screens seem to hold up well in hot with bleach occasionally. I always wash whites in hot with either a warm or cold rinse. I might put more clothes in these types of loads, for instance to the top of the tub cover ring, as these types of non-bulky items tend to deflate more when wet and still circulate quite well.

I rarely wash in cold as my bright colors and blacks are usually a blend. If they aren't a blend, I just expect them to fade slowly over time. I might wash a blanket or non-wearable in cold, if it calls for it, as they usually aren't visibly dirty. This is usually after winter is over and I wash the blanket to put it away. In between time I just put it in the dryer to blow the dust out.

Any item that has the beginnings of a small hole or tear or unraveled seam I mend immediately. I use a stain chart for stains I don't know how to deal with and I don't have many of them anymore. I keep my clothes in separate hampers or boxes until I have enough for a load, then I do it. I'd rather do a load every few days than do everything all at once. That gets boring to me. I rotate all my laundry all the time. I follow the instructions my mother taught me when I was little and am getting by pretty well. I have some garments and linens that are twenty to thirty years old. I think that says quite a bit.

That was more information than was asked for. Sorry.



Post# 546034 , Reply# 25   9/27/2011 at 08:06 (4,566 days old) by ozzie908 (Lincoln UK)        
That was more information than was asked for. Sorry

ozzie908's profile picture
Maybe so but I found it enlightening and informing :)

Austin


Post# 546036 , Reply# 26   9/27/2011 at 08:26 (4,566 days old) by DaveAMKrayoGuy (Oak Park, MI)        
"The more loads you run, the shorter the life of the mac

daveamkrayoguy's profile picture
True, but I know I am going to have lots'a wash loads, no matter what!

In fact, just when we are caught up on laundry,--POOF!--one more TOWEL, which could have gone into "that last load"! --One more SHIRT, someone dirtied up...! One more pair of JEANS...! --Someone changed their DRAWERS! --It could be ANYTHING!

There will always be "a next load" starting up, anytime...




-- Dave


Post# 546043 , Reply# 27   9/27/2011 at 09:10 (4,565 days old) by danmantn (Tennessee)        

danmantn's profile picture
I usually wait until I have a "full" load, but never overload the machine - and get superior results. My SQ averages 52¢ per month in electricity, so I could wash more often and smaller loads, but the drying expense of frequent loads keeps me from doing that.

Post# 546058 , Reply# 28   9/27/2011 at 11:02 (4,565 days old) by LordKenmore (The Laundry Room)        
drying expense of frequent loads

lordkenmore's profile picture
Ironically drying has been a reason in the past for small, frequent loads for me. It was a phase when I was air drying inside, and had seriously limited drying space. When loading the washer, I had to be careful not to wash too much at once, or else I'd be in serious trouble when drying time came.

Post# 546065 , Reply# 29   9/27/2011 at 12:14 (4,565 days old) by mickeyd (Hamburg NY)        
Hi Kelly and company

mickeyd's profile picture

 

 

 

My mom was/is a confirmed light loader, and follower of directions, "Fill loosely to rim of tub," even washing small loads of blacks and reds separately. Growing up, we burned through 3 Frigidaires, each one lasting seven years: a WO- 65, a 58 Tower, and a 65 Roller. With six kids, those gems washed 24-7. I don't know what the average machine life is.

 

Who knows why the 50's Unimatics are called 65's? What does the 65 stand for?



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