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Thread Number: 36694
Belt Drive Pair |
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Post# 545946 9/26/2011 at 17:42 (4,594 days old) by pulltostart  (Mobile, AL) |
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Post# 545951 , Reply# 1 9/26/2011 at 17:54 (4,594 days old) by KenmoreGuy64 (Charlotte, NC) |
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Post# 546039 , Reply# 2 9/27/2011 at 08:48 (4,593 days old) by appliguy (Oakton Va.) |
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Er...Kenmoreguy64...... | ||
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Post# 546053 , Reply# 3 9/27/2011 at 09:48 (4,593 days old) by KenmoreGuy64 (Charlotte, NC) |
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couldn't that waher in the craigslist ad be this one?
Nope.
I have two reasons for that. First, the lid is too big. That is probably the easiest way to tell a BD from a DD of this era. Also, the cycle layout isn't quite right. It is very similar, but just off by a couple timer clicks. The washer in the advertisement has a pre-wash cycle which the one on C/L does not. There was only one timer used in ALL the 3/4/5 cycle washers of this period in Belt-Drives (Timer 381860 and it's predecessors) and the delicate cycle is too low on the facia, as well the big gold OFF section is slightly off-kilter for a BD timer. Here's a pic of how that console would look in Belt-Drive form (there were a couple 1981/82 models made with this same configuration, lacking the Pre-wash): 
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| Post# 546140 , Reply# 4 9/27/2011 at 16:31 (4,593 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA) | ||
Love it. | ||
| Post# 546170 , Reply# 5 9/27/2011 at 17:40 (4,593 days old) by macboy91si (Frankfort, KY) | ||
24" DD Washer
I just picked up one of these 24" center-dial DD machines. I specifically want it to possibly pair up with the matching 24" dryer. My machine, which I will hopefully have time to post later this week, is an 85 model, neutral drainer but the tub has the clothes guard as the spin drainers do. I was wanting a BD, but this turned up and it works great. I was hoping for an earlier model though.
Gordon, the machine in the ad, while I realize is a BD model (and super rare) has the same timer as mine. My 85 24" DD reads "60 series" in the lower right corner and has the exact control panel as this BD in the ad. 4-minute prewash and all, the only difference being a slightly different timer dial with a clear plastic ring. 2-speed machine with 3 levels/temps and pre-wash. Odd, did these use the same timers? Also Gordon, give me a call if you get a chance sometime :) -Tim | ||
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Post# 546229 , Reply# 6 9/27/2011 at 21:49 (4,592 days old) by KenmoreGuy64 (Charlotte, NC) |
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Tim -
I am not completely sure how many timers were involved in the DD versions of these machines, but there was at least two generations as the neutral drain machines need an additional motor pause vs. the spin drains, which then requires different timers. As to the BD timers in DD machines - no, they aren't compatible. There are no "motor off" portions that the DD needs for the pauses between agitate and drain/spin. To better clarify what I was saying above, though the cycle layouts may look very similar to a casual observer, in fact I think Sears made it a point to set the cycles up on the DD timers to mimick those of the BDs, they are only similar, not exact. Look at the DD machine in Lawrence's picture. Notice how the top of the big gold block "off" section on the left is exactly lined up with the top of the off section on the opposite right side in between Perm and Delicate. Then look at my picture of the BD OR the BD in the advertisement and draw in your mind the same line. The lines don't line up, they would be about 15 or 20 degrees off, or separated. The normal cycle starts lower than the off section on the other side. That is what I mean about the timers being laid out similarly, but different. The BD timer for 3/4/5 cycle machines was never exactly set up like the DD in the photo. Tim - one question - does your machine have a black spot inside the 'off' between Pre-wash and Cotton/Sturdy? I don't know why Sears did this, but they only did it on DD machines. The corresponding BDs never had that spot, though there were some DDs that looked more exactly like their BD cousins than others. Yours is probably one of the more similar ones. Gordon | ||
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Post# 546232 , Reply# 7 9/27/2011 at 22:01 (4,592 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.) |
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| Post# 546278 , Reply# 8 9/28/2011 at 06:09 (4,592 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA) | ||
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Suds Return? | ||
| Post# 546295 , Reply# 9 9/28/2011 at 09:02 (4,592 days old) by macboy91si (Frankfort, KY) | ||
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DD Timer | ||
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Post# 546388 , Reply# 10 9/28/2011 at 20:25 (4,591 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md) |
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OFF BOX ON DD WASHERS That box in the middle of a long off area was where you set the timer to make the washer dry agitate to effect a suds return when the washer is used with the optional add on suds-saver attachment. If you look this setting was on most DD washers from around 1985-the early 1990s. The electronic LKM DD Washer even had a little * on the panel that would do this. | ||
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Post# 546497 , Reply# 12 9/29/2011 at 20:20 (4,590 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md) |
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SPIN DRAIN DD WASHERS WP was forced to reinvent the neutral drain washer because of all the consumer complaints of the performance of the early SD models. When they first built the DD washers they thought they could get away with not going to the expense of doing a neutral drain machine. Keep in mind that every automatic washer ever built that had the capability of draining before spinning did so. Far less dirt and scum stays in the clothes load when the water drains naturally as opposed to trying to spin the water through the clothes which ends up happing over and over again as the tub spins while trying to drain. This spinning also puts much more strain on the machine and causes many more balance problems. This has been discussed at great lengths on this site already. | ||
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Post# 546517 , Reply# 14 9/29/2011 at 21:53 (4,590 days old) by akronman (Akron/Cleveland Ohio) |
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SPin drain, neutral drain
I'm with John combo on this one, my spinout 70's Filter Flo and Maytag send tons of dirty water right through the clothes while spinning, no difference at all from a neutral drain, just sideways residue on clothes instead of straight down residue. My Whirlpool does the neutral drain, I have never seen any difference in results at all. If any of the machines has a worst-ever nasty load, then the filter helps a lot but at times (rare) I just put it back through a second rinse and all is well. As far as I can see, Whirlpool and Filter Flo are both aggressive and the Maytag is gentler, but neutral versus spin drain makes no difference in my wash.
Just my 2 cents... However, I still hope to someday find a good EARLY automatic where there's an overflow rinse, and/or a solid tub where the spinout goes out into the entire cabinet. As fun and reliable as my 70's Maytag and GE and 60 Whirlpool are, I still hope to find a far rarer and older machine with very different technologies, just for fun and uniqueness.....something totally devoted to and designed in the soap era, not detergent. The only overflow rinse I have ever seen is videos here, never in real life, let alone in my basement. I'll keep looking. | ||
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Post# 546586 , Reply# 15 9/30/2011 at 07:59 (4,590 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md) |
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SPIN DRANING MTs like most all TL washers do not have trouble balancing if you put in full loads. But try putting in a half load and you can almost guarantee that it will shut off on the unbalance cutoff. This will not happen on a neutral drain washer. As I had said before this is why GE and even Frigidare went to neutral drain it is by far the best way to build a perforated basket TL washer. SQ even builds some machines this way for sales in other countries. | ||
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Post# 549716 , Reply# 16 10/16/2011 at 04:09 (4,574 days old) by Kenmoreguy64 (Charlotte, NC) |
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Post# 549735 , Reply# 17 10/16/2011 at 08:18 (4,574 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md) |
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SQ NEUTRAL DRAIN MACHINES Gordon I am not really sure why they are making them with neutral drain for other markets, I could guess a lot of reasons but I may just be guessing. I will try to talk to the engineers at SQ at some time soon and see if they will give me any insight on this and a few other questions I have for them.
PS, Gordon I can get you a new SQ TL washer for a little less than $400.00 if you want to drive one up and pick it up or even have it shipped down to you. | ||
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Post# 552874 , Reply# 18 10/30/2011 at 21:07 (4,559 days old) by electronicontrl (Grand Rapids, MI) |
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MT spin'n'drain MTs like most all TL washers do not have trouble balancing if you put in full loads. But try putting in a half load and you can almost guarantee that it will shut off on the unbalance cutoff. | ||
| Post# 552994 , Reply# 19 10/31/2011 at 06:46 (4,559 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA) | ||
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Spin Drain | ||
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Post# 552996 , Reply# 20 10/31/2011 at 07:09 (4,559 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md) |
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SPIN DRAIN ADVANTAGE? There is no real advantage to spin drain except mechanical simplicity. Every TL automatic washer ever built that had the ability to have a neutral drain has done so, engineers and laundry experts have long realized the advantages of better soil removal and rinsing much better balancing of the spinning clothes load to say nothing of less stress on the machine itself. | ||
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