Thread Number: 36800
V-Zug washer arrived
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Post# 547537   10/4/2011 at 23:10 (4,437 days old) by deedub (Melbourne, Australia)        

Well I have said goodbye the Miele W3933 & T8633 after 3 years of faultless service and said hello to V-ZUG Adora SLQ. Waiting on the dryer to come in the next week or 2(out of stock briefly). Have so far run a standard cottons wash and also a shirts wash. Very impressed with the results and the thing is virtually silent. I'm looking forward to playing with all the different washes over the coming months.

For the guys (or gals) that have them, any tips or suggestions?


Post# 547555 , Reply# 1   10/5/2011 at 03:24 (4,437 days old) by ronhic (Canberra, Australia)        

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Yep, donate your Mieles to me :)

Post# 547557 , Reply# 2   10/5/2011 at 05:23 (4,437 days old) by MikeKLondon ()        
Why

Sorry but could I just ask why you changed from Miele to the the V-Zug they are new to me

Post# 547564 , Reply# 3   10/5/2011 at 06:09 (4,437 days old) by chestermikeuk (Rainhill *Home of the RailwayTrials* Merseyside,UK)        
V-Zug Adora SLQ Washer & Dryer

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Congratulations on your new laundry set, I`m sure you wont be dissapointed over and above the previous Mieles. As you say Ultra Quiet and the 8kg 60ltr drum is cavernous, the 1600rpm is one of the quietest I`ve heard and the spin extraction is the best...The Wet Clean programme is great for those clothes that just need refreshing etc..

The Heat Pump dryer is again very quiet and uses far less electricity than other models...if you have been used to a vented dryer then any heat pump dryer will take a bit of getting used to!!

Just make sure if you have a fully pressurised water system, particularly a combi boiler that the in-line pressure pot it large enough to match the requirements and that any pipework needs to be fixed rigid to walls otherwise you could experience "water hammer" when the VAS system "Vibration Absorbency System) is in use..


CLICK HERE TO GO TO chestermikeuk's LINK


Post# 547567 , Reply# 4   10/5/2011 at 06:48 (4,437 days old) by thelaundrylab (Hampshire UK)        
V-ZUG...

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The more people share this machine on here the more I am becoming fond of it...but little I know about it? Anyone care to explain the back story of this slick machine? Ie it's origin, etc...

Hass :)


Post# 547570 , Reply# 5   10/5/2011 at 07:16 (4,437 days old) by chestermikeuk (Rainhill *Home of the RailwayTrials* Merseyside,UK)        
V-Zug History

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Hello Hass

Heres the Zug History pages, have a read & click round. Zug have been in business manufacturing since 1913, they prided themselves only building Swiss quality for their own, its only recently that we see them develop the brand elswhere...

Miele used to be the "Exclusive & Different brand, now every man & his dog have them.....so

If you Aspire to want the "Difference" then V-Zug is the New Miele....cost you around 3k for the washer & dryer....


CLICK HERE TO GO TO chestermikeuk's LINK


Post# 547576 , Reply# 6   10/5/2011 at 07:40 (4,437 days old) by thelaundrylab (Hampshire UK)        
Mike...

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Hello Mike, thanks for sharing the info with me, yeah by the looks of it, this brand it does come across to be similar with Miele, ie the difference and suiting to your wash needs. Who would of thought Miele would be competing with another brand hey. Lol I would have to save my pennies to by these beauties Mike. Also the thing I like about these machines, is they have that modern look with a retro twist, maybe that's what's so appealing about it... Have they done any reviews on this machine? For example on 'Which'...




Post# 547582 , Reply# 7   10/5/2011 at 08:37 (4,437 days old) by chestermikeuk (Rainhill *Home of the RailwayTrials* Merseyside,UK)        
As Seen On UK Whitegoods

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Market Position

The only way to describe V-Zug's market position is right at the top, almost stratospheric in price and quality. This means, not cheap by any stretch.

V-Zug are actually priced higher than Miele and ISE and billed as being better and/or longer lasting than either of the two. This may be open to debate but, the quality of V-Zug is not open to question really, the appliances are painstakingly well built.


Hass, they are the Rolex of the Washing Machine World - They Dont See Themselves Like Miele at all....LOl,


CLICK HERE TO GO TO chestermikeuk's LINK


Post# 547584 , Reply# 8   10/5/2011 at 09:58 (4,437 days old) by MikeKLondon ()        
I like the look of the V-Zug

I'm just off for a quick trip up north to Newark Antiques fair for a few days I'll have a good look at this when I get back.

Post# 547586 , Reply# 9   10/5/2011 at 10:08 (4,437 days old) by thelaundrylab (Hampshire UK)        
That sums it up...

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lol the Rolex of the Washing Machine World. I love the sound of that Mike!!! After seeing the prices ie the top price for the top model is over 4k, I can see why they don't compare them selves to Miele. Like I said earlier me knowledge of these machine is very little. I was impress with the 'wet clean cycle' after seeing it on YouTube...so the thought of not taking your suits down to the Dry Cleaners, make's me sway towards this machine...I give my thumbs up :)



CLICK HERE TO GO TO thelaundrylab's LINK


Post# 547588 , Reply# 10   10/5/2011 at 10:37 (4,437 days old) by HotpointFan (United Kingdom)        
Mixed Opinions :)

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They look very well built but not as pretty as a Miele! Also, how much are these?

Thanks

Jacob


Post# 547589 , Reply# 11   10/5/2011 at 10:43 (4,437 days old) by thelaundrylab (Hampshire UK)        
Jacob...

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Mike told us these machines cost over three thousand pounds...everyone has there own opinions.

Post# 547597 , Reply# 12   10/5/2011 at 12:59 (4,437 days old) by HotpointFan (United Kingdom)        
Its a bit much though!

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I think thats expensive!

Post# 547598 , Reply# 13   10/5/2011 at 13:06 (4,437 days old) by aquarius8000 ()        

I doo like these machines, way of my budget especialy cause were getting a new dishwasher!

Post# 547600 , Reply# 14   10/5/2011 at 13:15 (4,437 days old) by HotpointFan (United Kingdom)        
Oooh Chris!

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What is it! Hotpoint Hotpoint Hotpoint!

Jacob


Post# 547602 , Reply# 15   10/5/2011 at 13:26 (4,437 days old) by aquarius1984 (Planet earth)        

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OK OK OK

The thread says VZUG. not Hotpoint Dishwashers,


Post# 547603 , Reply# 16   10/5/2011 at 13:29 (4,437 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands)        

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I introduced the V-Zug brand on this website after Launderess had seen a picture of it on some website. I had used a V-Zug in Switzerland before. That was a V-Zug Adorina, which at that time was a rebadged AEG. Nowadays unfortunately the Adorina series are sourced from Bauknecht.

I think I may say that I made more people interested in V-Zug washing machines and dryers. Fortunately they have become better available in Europe than in the past, when they were only sold in Switzerland.

The brand V-Zug, or plain Zug as many Swiss call it, is one of the many brands in Switzerland. It's amazing that so many brands are/were available overthere.

BTW, Zug has been discussed quite a few times on this website, or at least mentioned. Do a search on the Searchalator and many threads will come up.

In the summer of 2007 I was on holiday in Switzerland. I had the pleasure of visiting the V-Zug museum. I was granted permission to take pictures. I put them in a Webshots album. Here's the link:



CLICK HERE TO GO TO foraloysius's LINK


Post# 547613 , Reply# 17   10/5/2011 at 14:32 (4,436 days old) by gorenje (Slovenia)        

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My congratulations for your purchase!
I am sure you will enjoy the set.

A V-Zug washing machine would be a little dream come true for me :) (when talking about modern washing machines)
But I will continue to dream about it, because it's too expensive :)

It is really a Rolex or Rolls Royce of the washing machines.

Ingemar


Post# 547617 , Reply# 18   10/5/2011 at 14:50 (4,436 days old) by brisnat81 (Brisbane Australia)        

Hi David,

Thats a very pretty machine, congratulations. :)

I looked at them when they first came out, but the price was around $4800 which was a bit scary.

I'm very interested in how the heatpump dryer goes in the aussie climate.

Cheers

Nathan


Post# 547643 , Reply# 19   10/5/2011 at 18:34 (4,436 days old) by deedub (Melbourne, Australia)        
why I changed

Broke up with the partner and gave him the option of getting new Miele for himself or having the old ones and I'd get the Zug. Thankfully he chose wisely and I got to change!
Had been wanting to for a while but couldn't justify it (and no, not the reason for the breakup but may have contributed :p).
I ran the wetclean function on my work pants last night and they came out perfect. My biggest reason for getting it was the steam function it runs on the shirts wash, I don't iron so this solves that problem

Sure it's expensive ($4,300 in Aus) but it really is an amazing product. New Miele are being realeased in a week or 2 (in Aus, probably already out in Europe) at 8kg with steam function. $3,599 for the standard model and $4,999 (not a type, it really is that much) for the model with auto dosing detergent and touch screen.

I've never loved washing so much as I have this week!


Post# 547756 , Reply# 20   10/6/2011 at 10:33 (4,436 days old) by newwave1 (Lincoln, United Kingdom)        

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Wow what a beaut! Waaay out of my price range! lol

Ooh MikeKLondon! Your coming up my way this weekend!? I'm in Lincoln :-) I LOVE those stainless miele's you have!

Darren


Post# 547808 , Reply# 21   10/6/2011 at 14:04 (4,436 days old) by bewitched (Italy)        

I went several times in Switzerland to have a look at these Vzug machines. All sales persons of several stores equally selling Miele,Schulthess and Vzug machines told me that nothing can beat Miele quality. Vzug only produces few models while the other washers on their catalogues are made by Whirlpool (you can recognise them easily). That said Vzug are excellent machines but still under Miele standards for what concerns reliability and solid construction.

Post# 547861 , Reply# 22   10/6/2011 at 18:15 (4,435 days old) by gorenje (Slovenia)        
"nothing can beat Miele quality"

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They do only a few models, but that few models are sure exellent!

I believe that Miele as a brand is much more "commercial" then V-Zug.

I would say that it can't be such huge difference in quality standards between Miele and V-Zug.

Ingemar


Post# 547889 , Reply# 23   10/6/2011 at 22:42 (4,435 days old) by deedub (Melbourne, Australia)        
"nothing can beat Miele quality"

It's early days yet, but having come from the second TOL Miele to the V-ZUG, I wouldn't agree with that statement. Just have a look at that brass fitting in the first picture as an example! I have nothing bad to say about the Miele at all, was very happy with it. But on first impressions the V-ZUG is a superior machine on most criteria.

Post# 547896 , Reply# 24   10/6/2011 at 23:18 (4,435 days old) by mielerod69 (Australia)        
Miele Supertronic on its way!!

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I have decided to upgrade my W 3985 WPS to the new Supertronic. The Miele Gallery in Melbourne have just put these babies on display. I am setting up my laundry to have the AutoDos unit on a wall bracket so then I can stack the matching heat pump on top. I will post pics when I get it, but I did test drive it and it was impressive, especially the steam function. I washed 5 business shirts and one was good enough to wear without ironing. Of course it depends on the fabric type and mix.

Post# 547925 , Reply# 25   10/7/2011 at 01:58 (4,435 days old) by rudin1969 (Italy)        

I have both the Adora SLQ and the Miele Steam Care. My impressions:
VZUG:
pluses: more flexibility (thanks to separate easy care button etc), VAS gives perfect spin results (no dumbed down spin as a result of load imbalance), better rinses
minuses: build quality inferior to Miele (flimsy detergent drawer), some of the Textile programmes are useless (Jeans programme: exactly the same as Cottons, if I'm not mistaken, except higher water level in rinses, same tumbling rhythm, max spin after wash and intermediate rinses -- btw, is it true that intermediate spins are not good for denim?), not sure about fuzzy logic
MIELE
pluses: better build quality, more flexible steam programmes (the VZUG steam programme activates a default max 1200 spin and a cool down after the main wash), different 'specialty' programmes with specific tumbling rhythms etc
minuses: can be louder during spin, less flexible programming (except steam programmes), water miser (cottons), stain programmes are a question mark

The VZug adora has been tested by Choice Australia -- not sure about the validity of the test, though. Which? say they're not going to test it because it's too expensive and has a limited market potential.


Post# 547928 , Reply# 26   10/7/2011 at 03:06 (4,435 days old) by deedub (Melbourne, Australia)        
comparision

Rudin,
So if you could only keep one, which would it be?
I haven't seen the new Miele with steam, I'm going to the launch next Tuesday here in South Melbourne.
David.


Post# 547929 , Reply# 27   10/7/2011 at 03:08 (4,435 days old) by deedub (Melbourne, Australia)        
Choice test

They rated the Adora pretty low on rinsing ability, and that's simply just plain crap. It is the best rinsing washing machine I have ever seen, by quite some margin. 14,000 holes in the drum drilled by a ruby, gotta be a good thing.

Post# 547930 , Reply# 28   10/7/2011 at 03:22 (4,435 days old) by rudin1969 (Italy)        

Difficult choice.... I wouldn't want to let go of either :)
please let me know your impressions - textile programmes, fuzzy logic etc.?
Choice also rated the Adora quite low for washing ability, but they tested the 1:32 cotton programme (with default light soiling) to wash a load of heavily stained garments... Go figure :I


Post# 547931 , Reply# 29   10/7/2011 at 03:27 (4,435 days old) by rudin1969 (Italy)        

I meant the 1:15 cottons programme

Post# 547944 , Reply# 30   10/7/2011 at 06:19 (4,435 days old) by deedub (Melbourne, Australia)        
Choice

do some strange things sometimes. They claim they test on the "standard" wash, but obviously they don't.

Post# 548040 , Reply# 31   10/7/2011 at 21:41 (4,434 days old) by deedub (Melbourne, Australia)        
V-Zug difference

Perhaps one of the reasons the V-Zug had an unusual result in the Choice test would be that their products are built to different criteria than anything else.
Until 3 or 4 years ago V-Zug only built products for the Swiss market and didn't really pay much attention to what the rest of the world was doing. Whereas all the other brands were competing worldwide against each other and as such were competing on similar criteria.

The Swiss pride themselves, on precision, ease of use and environmental concerns, and the products reflect this. Specifically in washing machines they introduced the steam anti crease function in 2004 (I must be Swiss as I also hate ironing) and the Anti Vibration System and Wetclean in 2008 (due to high levels of apartment living and perhaps not enough dry cleaners!).

Even the control system is completely different to anything else. You first select the temperature you wish to wash at and then the fabric type which is the reverse of every other brand.

I also have the Combi Steam which follows similar principles and is completely different to the Miele/Gaggenau/Neff models. Although the new Miele has "adopted" a very similar steam generation system to that of the V-Zug.

I like the fact that the products are different, but it is really hard to compare them as they weren't built with competitors in mind. They were just built to be the best at what they wanted to achieve, rather than beat the competition. Probably why they have over 50% market share in Switzerland! They only reason they started an export program was because there sales growth was declining. No wonder with a population of 7.5 million, massive market share and reliable and long lasting product!


Post# 548054 , Reply# 32   10/8/2011 at 02:14 (4,434 days old) by chestermikeuk (Rainhill *Home of the RailwayTrials* Merseyside,UK)        
Zug Holy Grail Drum

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Hi David, Do you have a pressurized water system, Combi Boiler etc, Any chance of posting the "Choice" reports and results please??

Ingemar, yes built like a Rolls Royce and with Rolex Swiss Precision & Quality...

Hass, I like them because they are "Different", you will never see them in the high street, they are the domain of Kitchen Specialists and Designers - And Harrods - niche market...



Post# 548055 , Reply# 33   10/8/2011 at 02:28 (4,434 days old) by chestermikeuk (Rainhill *Home of the RailwayTrials* Merseyside,UK)        
Excellent Rinsing I find...

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The 14,000 holes makes for a great transference of water, and very quick, the other advantage is the large drum baffle which acts like a tsunami moving the water and clothes in one swoop...




Post# 548058 , Reply# 34   10/8/2011 at 02:53 (4,434 days old) by chestermikeuk (Rainhill *Home of the RailwayTrials* Merseyside,UK)        
Vibration Absorbing System

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The Zug Adora certainly makes light work of an unbalanced loads....incredible how it jets the water into the baffles at the right time....here you can see the three injector pipes

Post# 548061 , Reply# 35   10/8/2011 at 02:55 (4,434 days old) by chestermikeuk (Rainhill *Home of the RailwayTrials* Merseyside,UK)        
VAS System In Action

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Post# 548072 , Reply# 36   10/8/2011 at 05:30 (4,434 days old) by gorenje (Slovenia)        

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From what I know in Switzerland the water is very soft, so I assume that this washer should have a good rince cycle since it is made primary for the Switzerlan market.

I like it very much the connector for the dryer drain. That's cool, so the soft condensed water from the dryer can be reused in the washer. (or am I wrong?)

Ingemar


Post# 548077 , Reply# 37   10/8/2011 at 06:13 (4,434 days old) by chestermikeuk (Rainhill *Home of the RailwayTrials* Merseyside,UK)        
Washer Dryer Drain

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The water from the dryer can be connected to the drain on the washer, (T-Connection) two in one, its not used for wash water...that could be a great feature!!

The Swiss have the total extreames of water from soft to hard, the Zug Ador has programmes to suit this and also for using soap or synthetic detergents, also for Laundry Additives like pre-washers etc..


Post# 548080 , Reply# 38   10/8/2011 at 06:43 (4,434 days old) by gorenje (Slovenia)        

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Wow! Thanks, I didn't know that about the ability to use it in soft conditions (and with soap if wanted) and in hard conditions.

Thank you for the explanation. It's really a pity that the water from the dryer is not used for the next wash. The condensed water is very soft and it would have at least a room temperature so it would be an adittional save. :)

Ingemar


Post# 548082 , Reply# 39   10/8/2011 at 06:50 (4,434 days old) by rudin1969 (Italy)        

These are the Choice results. I agree that VZug went for short standard cotton washes as required by the Swiss market, and (rightly so) didn't worry about consumer associations' testing criteria. I don't understand why Which? wouldn't test the Adora as it's recently tested a TOL Miele dishwasher...

Test results AskoW6903 LGwd1403 mielew5835 VZug
Overall Score 77 75 73 70
Dirt Removal Score (%) 76 75 73 59
Rinse Score (%) 89 74 61 74
Gentleness Score (%) 73 74 73 79
Spin Score (%) 80 83 81 79
Water Effic, Score (%) 68 84 85 81
Water Used (L) 96 68 56 77
Energy used (kWh) 0.229 0.746 0.235 0.207
Cycle Time (min) 148 190 143 84
Noise (dBA) 62 63 63 58
Program Tested Auto, cold, 1600rpm Cotton, Normal rinse, Cold, 1400 rpm Cottons, Cold, 1600 rpm, 2:23 to go 10C Coloureds, 1600 rpm
Coldest wash for normal program Cold Cold Cold Cold


CLICK HERE TO GO TO rudin1969's LINK


Post# 548113 , Reply# 40   10/8/2011 at 12:10 (4,434 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands)        

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Already in the 60's I learned to be suspicious of the tests consumer organisations perform. Back then the Dutch consumer orginasition tested washing machines. They turned the machines off after one minute into the spin cycle. They stated that most of the water had been spun out and there was no use in letting the machines spin longer. The tested Miele spun at 800rpm in that first minute, didn't get a chance to spin the last three minutes at 1000rpm!

In this test the time the cycles took speaks for itself, they used cycles you can't compare. 190 minutes for the LG and 84 minutes for the Zug! No wonder the Zug performed worse!

BTW, there was a time that washers were tested using programmes with higher temperatures!


Post# 548133 , Reply# 41   10/8/2011 at 13:55 (4,434 days old) by nrones ()        
V-Zug

I must say that this is AWESOME machine!
I'd deffinatley like to have one, and on the vids on YouTube it looks AWESOME TOO! Like it very much, it is very original washing machine! And personally, I think this is THE BEST drum I've ever seen, really really good!
I would love to see more videos of it on YouTube if that's possible (from all the owners ;) )

I totally agree with Foralyosious on consumer reports.. especially mentioning the time of the cycle they chosen.. recently the same thing happened on general test of washers in Which? where Basic Hoover's (with temperature-knob, that has already pre-set higher/normal time) were rated 4* for wash (because it lasts 2hours) and, those advanced (with Time manager), where they are automaticly pre-set to lowest possible time (and clearly says LIGHT SOIL), so wash lasted 1:30 and got 2*, almost exact case like LG 190mins and V-zug 84 (just time difference on VZug is bigger :P).. and there is like million of other cases through history that proove nothing more than their inconvenience

But what I could see in V-zug history, this is a first decent outer-look washing machine, because older ones had very wired colour combinations (like gray-blue, or Brown), and the shape wasn't quite tasty (like one in the link), but still, they were technicly amazing. That's just about my personal taste of outer design, however this one is true beauty! :D

Dex



CLICK HERE TO GO TO nrones's LINK


Post# 548141 , Reply# 42   10/8/2011 at 15:30 (4,433 days old) by brisnat81 (Brisbane Australia)        

Choice test the machines on whatever cycle was used to get the energy rating. So whatever the manual details as the "Standard" test cycle that is what they use when testing the machines. Choice also load the machine to the rated capacity for the test, so if any of the others has a larger drum than the Vzug and is rated at the same weight, it stands that it'll wash better. Is a 60L drum the biggest so far in a standard cabinet?

They marked Miele down for years, purely because you couldnt do a cold Cottons cycle, the minimum temp was 30degC.

The rinse on the Miele adjusts itself best when there is a temperature drop, so that it can analyse the absorbancy of the clothes. If the wash water is the same temp as the rinse, I dont see how the active rinse function of the Miele can work.

I dropped my Choice subscription last year when it got up around $22 a quarter and the detail in the reviews started to drop off, I'd rather do the research myself.


Post# 548149 , Reply# 43   10/8/2011 at 16:46 (4,433 days old) by nrones ()        
test cycles

Well, thats what differs between that Australian consumer report and European.. I know that British "Which", and Italian "Altroconsumo" both put 80% of labeled capacity, on Cottons 40 (which with pre-set lowest time doesn't end up as good ;)

If we say standard size cabinet is 60x60 footprint, I know Candy/Hoover have a 66L drum in that size cabinet, however I'm not sure if it's biggest :)

Dex


Post# 548231 , Reply# 44   10/9/2011 at 01:10 (4,433 days old) by deedub (Melbourne, Australia)        
V-Zug

I'm running a denim wash as we speak, at least I think I am cos I can't hear the thing running! I'm sure they will come out clean, same as they did in the Miele.
I saw a really interesting interview with the UK distributor and the Export Manager of V-Zug, it explains what they are on about. Personally I'd be happy with Miele or V-Zug anything, had both and love them. I sell them for a living, I let the customer decide, but V-Zug is definitely becoming more popular in the kitchen, in black it looks stunning. Miele still only bring out the stainless models to Aus.

Ps. the V-Zg spin is silent from the machine but the floor moves a bit! Not their fault but you wouldn't want it on a wooden floor in an old house. Might pull the whole thing down.


Post# 548234 , Reply# 45   10/9/2011 at 01:26 (4,433 days old) by deedub (Melbourne, Australia)        

V-Zug story

CLICK HERE TO GO TO deedub's LINK


Post# 548235 , Reply# 46   10/9/2011 at 01:31 (4,433 days old) by rudin1969 (Italy)        

Why do you think VZug has not provided a fuzzy logic system that reduces the time of the programme with partial loads?

Post# 548238 , Reply# 47   10/9/2011 at 01:58 (4,433 days old) by deedub (Melbourne, Australia)        

It does adjust the cycle based on load size.

Post# 548241 , Reply# 48   10/9/2011 at 02:36 (4,433 days old) by chestermikeuk (Rainhill *Home of the RailwayTrials* Merseyside,UK)        
Choice...

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Interesting results, the Choice reports set alarm bells ringing straight away as the Asko`s have shallower rinses and use less water, and this test model has the highest water usage....

Louis, yes you would have thought that a max temp would have been used, have you used the Zug Unimatic Top loaders??,

David, still interested in knowing what type of plumbing system you are using it with? is it linked into a pressurized hot water system??, is yours on a suspended wooden floor then??

Dex, yes technically amazing, aesthetics - well as you say thats all down to personal choice..


Post# 548242 , Reply# 49   10/9/2011 at 02:51 (4,433 days old) by chestermikeuk (Rainhill *Home of the RailwayTrials* Merseyside,UK)        
"Why do you think VZug has not provided a fuzzy logic sy

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Why ever would you want that term " Logic" linked with the word "Fuzzy" and have it on your machine has always been the biggest misnomer for me...LOl, so all it does is what?? monitors the "Processes" and adjusts the "Variables" - well thats exactly what the Zugs do - but using their own "Swiss Precision" technology, and not some other term loosely banded about and used as the most over-rated sales tool ever...

When you study the Zug Adora washing you will observe the "Variables" in motion, and when you see the motor control on the wet clean and delicate programmes, its an art in itself in getting the drum to hold the cradle motion on the quarter turns...

And if you want "Precision Control" you only need to look at the "Black Box" speed controller and the computer controls on the top to see the quality...and its the "Hidden Programming" thats the art....which Zug appear to have perfected over many years...


Post# 548244 , Reply# 50   10/9/2011 at 03:10 (4,433 days old) by chestermikeuk (Rainhill *Home of the RailwayTrials* Merseyside,UK)        
Pride Of Place - Zug

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Post# 548248 , Reply# 51   10/9/2011 at 04:40 (4,433 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands)        
Mike

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No, I have never used a Zug Unimatic toploader.

Thanks for the link to the article.


Post# 548252 , Reply# 52   10/9/2011 at 06:06 (4,433 days old) by mielerod69 (Australia)        
Choice, Steam, Soft water, Fuzzy Logic.....

mielerod69's profile picture
Hi All,

Some of the topics I would like to comment on: Let's start with Choice. Brisnat said they test to the energy label, actually they don't and this is why there is such a discrepancy in results. All front loaders are usually tested using the Cottons 40 degree wash. Miele using their default Cottons 40 programme with no options, The VZug programme is the 40 degree programme with normal soiling option selected, and 1400 rpm spin for the label programme. Choice does all their testing with cold water, as 70% of their subscribers wash in cold water, go figure. This does have an impact on the overall score of the machines.
When it comes to the steam function of the Miele vs the VZug these also differ. The Miele uses a twin injection system in the wash drum. The steam is produced in an external steam generator and injected from the top of the drum and in between the inner and outer drum. The VZug produces steam in the bottom of the outer drum with the heating element submerged in water. The advantage of the Miele system is that it can tailor the steam delivery in the drum depending on the type of fabric being steamed.
When it comes to soft water and rinsing, Miele offers Water plus option as well as extra rinse option, which I use here in Melbourne as the water is very soft, 3 German degrees. The VZug has an option that can be enabled for soft water areas, as well as being able to add up to 2 additional rinses as well as increasing the water level.
Fuzzy logic, a term which was invented in the 80s and used by many Asian brands. Miele has 2 electronic control modules, one which is on the control panel and the other is the control electronic which looks very much like the VZug machine and that is the brain which controls all the processes of the wash cycle.


Post# 548334 , Reply# 53   10/9/2011 at 18:48 (4,432 days old) by deedub (Melbourne, Australia)        
Miele vs Zug

Gee Rod, if their is ever a product manager position at Miele you would be perfectly qualified! lol.
David :)


Post# 548336 , Reply# 54   10/9/2011 at 18:51 (4,432 days old) by deedub (Melbourne, Australia)        
Plumbing

Chestermike,

I have no idea about my plumbing - the water comes out that's the extent of my knowledge!! I'm on a concrete floor third story. I originally had the Miele on a timber floor and it never caused any problems, was well impressed!


Post# 548396 , Reply# 55   10/10/2011 at 00:48 (4,432 days old) by mielerod69 (Australia)        
VZug energy and water ratings

mielerod69's profile picture
I noticed that the machines have had their energy and water ratings improved. It seems that VZug are planning to compete on the Australian market. The updated SLQ has a 4 star energy efficiency and 4.5 star WELS water efficiency rating. The first ones had 3.5 star energy and 4 star water. There goes the rinse efficiency! Also the test programme time has jumped from 134 minutes to 174 minutes for the normal soil level! Water consumption has dropped 10 litres to 66 compared to 76.

Post# 548402 , Reply# 56   10/10/2011 at 04:09 (4,432 days old) by chestermikeuk (Rainhill *Home of the RailwayTrials* Merseyside,UK)        
Test Results

chestermikeuk's profile picture
Hi Rod, "All front loaders are usually tested using the Cottons 40 degree wash" are you meaning the Choice test programmes or the EU EN60456 directive??

BTW, I thought you did work for Miele??

Hi David, I was asking if your hot water comes from a pressurized gas combi boiler or sealed electric system?





Post# 548409 , Reply# 57   10/10/2011 at 04:41 (4,432 days old) by realist ()        
V-Zug Adora washing machines

I have used V-Zug appliances most of my life, living in Switzerland for more than 40 years. During that time I never ever had to call an Engineer. V-Zug washing machines and dryers are perfect, low energy efficicient and reliable. For the last 9 years I had a Neff washer/dryer since the V-Zug were not available in the UK. I needed the Neff Engineer at least once a year. We will be moving soon and I am looking forward to replace the Neff with a V-Zug washer and dryer because this is the only make I know from experience I can trust. I am sure Miele is reliable too, but with V-Zug I know what I have!

Post# 548411 , Reply# 58   10/10/2011 at 05:27 (4,432 days old) by chestermikeuk (Rainhill *Home of the RailwayTrials* Merseyside,UK)        
Zug

chestermikeuk's profile picture
Hello Eva and welcome to the appliances club, can you tell us what Zug washing machines you and you family have had and used please??

Are you staying in the UK or moving back to Switzerland??

What where the problems with your Neff washer dryer??



Post# 548419 , Reply# 59   10/10/2011 at 05:55 (4,432 days old) by mielerod69 (Australia)        
Australian Standards

mielerod69's profile picture
Hi Mike,

Washing machines whether top or front loading are tested to AS/NZS 2040.2. The programme used is a Normal or Cottons programme with a minimum temperature of 40 degrees. Some manufacturers also use up to 60 degrees to achieve the pass required for the label. This of course would lower the energy star rating. Therefore the programme is optimised to obtain the best energy and water rating. The standard also tests for rinse efficiency. There was a point where machines were using very little water but were not rinsing properly to obtain a high water efficiency rating. They put a marker in the wash water and see what is left behind after the cycle finishes. The less that is left the better the rinse performance. The problem with the marker is that it dissolves and rinses out easily when using higher temperatures. When Choice test, they only test to part of the standard. That is they use the standard wash load and marker for rinse efficiency, but test using the cold setting rather than what's stated on the energy label. This therefore affects the overall performance scores for dirt removal and rinse efficiency as the marker doesn't rinse out as easily when using cold water in the wash cycle.

Shhh!!! don't tell anyone!


Post# 548462 , Reply# 60   10/10/2011 at 10:09 (4,432 days old) by rudin1969 (Italy)        

As far as I know, the test programme for VZug is not the one for 'normal soiling' (which I believe you meant 'light soiling', as this is the default option), but the one for 'heavy soiling', in other words: Cottons programme + heavy soiling selected + night (aka eco) option selected (lengthens the programme time, but saves on both electricity and water use -- longer rinses with less water).

Post# 548463 , Reply# 61   10/10/2011 at 10:15 (4,432 days old) by rudin1969 (Italy)        

Another thing... in the 'original' 2009 Adora, the test programme was slightly shorter and used up a bit more electricity. They tweaked with it in the 2010 version, in order to top the chart of energy efficient washers in the Swiss Topten site (see link)

CLICK HERE TO GO TO rudin1969's LINK


Post# 548523 , Reply# 62   10/10/2011 at 15:33 (4,431 days old) by deedub (Melbourne, Australia)        
Water connection

Chestermikeuk,
I have an instantaneous gas hws. But the washer is only connected to cold. I had the Miele connected to both, but had a sealed electric system in both houses it lived in.
David


Post# 548570 , Reply# 63   10/10/2011 at 20:29 (4,431 days old) by mielerod69 (Australia)        
Australian vs European standards

mielerod69's profile picture
Hi Rudin69,

Yes the programme used for the label in Europe is correct, but in Australia we have a different standard we test to. If you look in the Australian VZug manual, it gives you what the test programme is. What they have done is extend the time for 'Normal soil' level as our standard states that the programme is designed to wash a normally soiled load, not heavily soiled like in the EU test programme.


Post# 548657 , Reply# 64   10/11/2011 at 09:24 (4,431 days old) by realist ()        
V-Zug

Hallo Mike
- We always had V-Zug Adora washer & dryer machines, I cannot remember the models. I also had a V-Zug hob and oven, needless to say problem free.
- I am staying in the UK.
- Neff washer dryer stopped in the middle of the wash, also had to replace the pump twice.

I know the prices are very high with V-Zug, especially since the pound lost such a lot of value lately, but if you can afford it, you will not regret it.


Post# 548693 , Reply# 65   10/11/2011 at 15:07 (4,430 days old) by ronhic (Canberra, Australia)        
V-Zug and Miele

ronhic's profile picture

I was talking about V-Zug and Miele with a friend on the weekend who is known for his frugality and slightly idiosyncratic ways....

 

Suffice to say that the conversation ended up with me stating that I think I'll buy a Miele washer when we replace the Westinghouse/Zanussi/Electrolux. His comment was really quite interesting:

 

'Why on earth would you want to spend $2000 on something that always appears to be breaking down?'

 

I was a tad astounded by this and asked for further explanation.....

 

'Simon and I have a great number of high value and celebrity customers (they are pond and aquarium people - currently building one worth $250k for some lucky sod). There is barely a month goes by when the red Miele van isn't at one of our customers'

 

Now, Darren isn't known for exaggeration or being diplomatic so I'm tempted to accept that he does see the red Miele van at houses quite regularly.....

 

I suppose this has just made me think about it a tad...

 

Has anyone else experienced high 'Miele Van' occurances?


Post# 548711 , Reply# 66   10/11/2011 at 16:57 (4,430 days old) by deedub (Melbourne, Australia)        
Miele van

I spend all day dealing with people about appliances and from my observations Miele have the lowest failure/service rate of any brand. If your friend is operating in a above average income/wealth area then it stands to reason that there would be a lot of Miele appliances in the area. If something lasts 10/15/20/25 years it isn't usually going to do it without some kind of maintenance.

But also bare in mind that Miele deliveries and installations are done from the red Miele vans too. So it's probably of combination of both service on existing products and delivery of new ones.

Repeat customers for the Miele brand (in laundry and dishwashers) for me would easily be over 90%. Very very few complaints.

David


Post# 548712 , Reply# 67   10/11/2011 at 17:02 (4,430 days old) by mielerod69 (Australia)        
something that always appears to be breaking down

mielerod69's profile picture
Hi Ron,

I think that this is very much a blanket statement your friend is making. Remember that service calls don't always pertain to a 'break down'. There are service statistics which log what type of service call is being made. I can tell you that many are for user error issues and not related to a technical fault.


Post# 548713 , Reply# 68   10/11/2011 at 17:06 (4,430 days old) by deedub (Melbourne, Australia)        
Miele steam

Saw the new Miele steam washing machines last night (Hi Rod!) and was very impressed, going to be a successful product for them.
The Auto Dos machine is a lot more advanced than anything else on the market, the external dosing unit actually has it's own pump to draw in water from the machine, mix it with either powder or liquid then put the appropriate amount based on the load size (and level of soiling you select).

Attached is a picture of the lower steam model with traditional dial and button controls that I took last night. The Auto Dos machine has the full Navitronic touch control panel from the TOL ovens.


Post# 551352 , Reply# 69   10/23/2011 at 03:11 (4,419 days old) by rudin1969 (Italy)        

hello, deedub
any feedback about the Vzug after a couple of weeks' use? Have you tried the 'textile' specialty programmes?



Post# 552054 , Reply# 70   10/26/2011 at 15:06 (4,415 days old) by jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)        
Looks like one tough machine

jetcone's profile picture

to me. That VAS system I want to take it apart and put it into my Kenmore combo!

 

Love the  name VAS as in vas deferens! Tubes everywhere...

 

 


Post# 552229 , Reply# 71   10/27/2011 at 09:56 (4,415 days old) by AZREOSpecialist ()        

That v-Zug is the ugliest washing machine I've seen in a long time. Is that interior photo above from the same machine? What a mess compared to the nice, clean interior layout of a Miele. Also, the plastic/fiberglass tub appears to be split down the middle, I wonder how long before that seam cracks? Miele uses a one-piece drum.

Just saying.



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