Thread Number: 3693
which new F/L take in the "MOST" water .......
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Post# 89963   10/21/2005 at 10:36 (6,733 days old) by gregm ()        

are there any new front loaders that actually take in enough water during the wash and/or rinse so that they "SLOSH/SPLASH" around a bit ? From what I have seen of the Bosch and WP Duets they get very damp or dripping wet period. Even the older Maytag "neptunes" seemed to splash around especially if you rig it like I was able to so that you can watch it wash with the door open. In fact the Bosch seems to take FOREVER for the clothes to get wet all the way through, but that is on the older, smaller models ..........

I looked at the new Maytag (3.3 cu' - made in Korea) slightly smaller than there new large tub (3.7) today in Lowe's and they seem slightly cheaper and was wondering if they would be worth it ??????????

The older Neptunes with the 2.7cu' tub seem to have dropped their prices to around $6-700 ........ but I hope they have worked out all the bugs ...... (door lock probs, circuit board burnouts, mold/mildew forming inside around door)

In Lowe's today, there was a tag on the WP duet washer stating it was # 1 .......





Post# 89973 , Reply# 1   10/21/2005 at 11:29 (6,733 days old) by designgeek ()        

The trend for front-loaders is to go toward less water in each cycle, not more. The only way to get more water is to find a way of "hacking" the machine, but computer controlled cycles are less and less susceptible to hacking. Or get a vintage machine from an era when they typically used more water. Though, on newer models there will always be enough water to wash properly, and particularly if you use warm and hot cycles, saving water also saves the cost of heating more water than you actually need.

Mold problems are usually the result of people leaving the door hatch closed after they're done with a load. The moisture in there doesn't have a chance to dry out, so it grows mold. If you leave the door open, the normal air circulation dries up the excess water, and all's well. Same case applies to top loaders, leave the lid open for a day after each load so it all dries out. And of course the occasional load with bleach, will sanitize all the working surfaces.



Post# 89980 , Reply# 2   10/21/2005 at 13:31 (6,733 days old) by gregm ()        
leaving washer door open

I agree, but kinda stinks with the old neptune where if you leave the door open, the inerior light bulb will burn out that much sooner? ....... probably easy to change ...........

Post# 90003 , Reply# 3   10/21/2005 at 16:12 (6,733 days old) by rinso (Meridian Idaho)        

While it's true that very low levels of water are superior for dirt and stain removal, lint and pet hair require more "floating" them my HE3 produces on most cycles. I "hack" it by starting the wash on ultra hand wash and selecting warm water if necessary, wait for the machine to finish filling, then pause it and switch it to another cycle. The ultra hand wash fills with more water than the other cycles.

Post# 90054 , Reply# 4   10/21/2005 at 23:56 (6,733 days old) by frontloadfan (Wellfleet, Ma.)        
Auto Soak Great Feature

I have the Kitchen Aid Front Loader (made by Whirlpool) and it has an Auto Soak option. When you select this feature, it soak the clothes for a full 30 minutes before the regular cycle start. This can't be beat for an abundance of water. The water most times comes up to the bottom of the glass door. Some washes I am certain if you paused it to add a garmet and opened the door, water would run would the door! It is interesting as the flip side of this is that the clothes tend to loose their ability to be splashed down into the water. In fact, if the load is very small, the clothes tend to stay in the very bottom of the drum. If the load is larger, the clothes will ride up and splash back down, but not to the same degree as they would for a regular wash cycle.

I would have to say that in most cases the auto soak is probably not really necessary. I think there is a certain feel good element envolved: seeing your clothes really get soak prior to going through the regular wash cycle.

Something else I have noted is that suds seems to be more of an issue with the auto soak. You need to guage your load and adjust your detergent level accordingly.


Post# 90165 , Reply# 5   10/22/2005 at 21:16 (6,732 days old) by appnut (TX)        

appnut's profile picture
Rich, the door is supposed to remain locked during the soak cycle even if the pause button is pushed simply for the above reason--no water flowing out the door when opened.

Post# 90183 , Reply# 6   10/22/2005 at 22:46 (6,732 days old) by launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        

launderess's profile picture
Someone posted over on THS that when comparing informatin from the Energy Star website on front loaders, the SQ units used slightly more water than other front loaders in their capacity class. This may make sense in that SQ washers do come from a commercial background where slightly more water could be used to compensate for rather short cycle times.





Post# 90185 , Reply# 7   10/22/2005 at 22:58 (6,732 days old) by launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        
Oh Yes, There Is This Then

launderess's profile picture
Read somewhere that recirculating spray feature on some front loaders was developed/is used as a way to do more with less water.

Was reading something (may have been an article on front loader washer designs, which stated that front loaders could use less water if ways were found to "force" water into the laundry. Rather than pausing to fill when the washer detected water a drop in water level, recirculating sprays would use existing water within the tub to wet laundry down. Do know on our old Malber, the machine would call for more water, but in some cases if the machine paused long enough, and extra water was not pumped in (such as when the tap was shut off), sooner or later the machine would start up again as the some of the "excess" water pooled down towards the bottom of the tub.

Think it was vintage Bendix front loaders that had the design of front loaders down to a science, and caculated water needs were a factor of the space between the inner and outer tubs. With the proper amount of water, enough water is available to be "scooped and sprayed" from the fins much in the same way Miele washers operate. If the water volume is low, there is not enough water to do the above, so another way must be found to "scoop and spray". IIRC LG washers, which use recirculating sprays, do not "scoop and spray" from the fins. IMHO scooping and spraying via the fins is a better method not only because it uses proper amounts of water,but is totally a passive operation wiht no pumping of water required.

Launderess


Post# 90436 , Reply# 8   10/24/2005 at 10:15 (6,730 days old) by jimmyb (Texas Y’all)        
Speed Queen

Speed Queen does use a bit more water than other front loaders, although the water level is never above the window. The clothes slosh around quite a bit more than the Asko I used to have.

-Jim


Post# 90465 , Reply# 9   10/24/2005 at 16:03 (6,730 days old) by newwave1 (Lincoln, United Kingdom)        

newwave1's profile picture
i gotta say i hate efficient front loaders....my 1987 hoover logic uses tons of water & doesnt have an extra rinse feature because it doesn't need it!

as far as modern front loaders go, us guys in the uk Myself (Darren)& my friend & yours! lavamat_Jon Have The "Water Happy" aeg & miele's which you can programme in to take more water. as you'd guess we took advantage of this & it's set permanantly on each of our machines!

im all for effiency but not when it compramises rinsing results! sorry to all the guys that work for water companys out there lol.

D


Post# 90514 , Reply# 10   10/24/2005 at 20:52 (6,730 days old) by gregm ()        
how to on MIELE ???

I didn't know that ? So on Miele's you can actually program it to "take more water" ? how does it work ? Does anyone know if it would be better or equal to the SQ ? I think I may go with the SQ from what I have heard .............

Post# 90515 , Reply# 11   10/24/2005 at 20:55 (6,730 days old) by mattywashboy (Perth, Western Australia)        

mattywashboy's profile picture
i totally agree with darren, todays front loaders are too efficient, they focus more on being efficient than they do on cleaning. I remember when i lived the UK and we had our Creda Supaspeed, it had a deep wash option that raised the water level to about a quarter of the way up the glass. My mother put Sellotape over this button to make sure that it was never turned off. I wish that Australia had more older Britsh Hotpoints and Hoovers as opposed to the Simpson front loaders which are just rebadged british Indesits.
Anyway, thats my rant
btw Darren and Jon, even tho i live in Aussie i still like doing laundry the good ole British way, so i'm totally behind you guys. Btw Darren, do you have msn? it would be good to talk to you and Jon together sometime, let me know :)
Matt


Post# 90526 , Reply# 12   10/24/2005 at 21:29 (6,730 days old) by mattywashboy (Perth, Western Australia)        

mattywashboy's profile picture
errrl, when i said rebadged Indesits, i meant rebadged Tricity Bendix ( sorry, i rent my brain from the local science lab :P)

Post# 90554 , Reply# 13   10/24/2005 at 23:01 (6,730 days old) by brisnat81 (Brisbane Australia)        
Miele and Water Plus

Hi Greg,

My Miele has a water plus button, which raises the water level about 3" up the bottom of the door.

Depending on how you program it, it will do it for the main wash and rinses or rinses only.

I find that the water is clear when it come out and not slippery with the normal levels. So, so far I've only used Water Plus if I've done a large load of towels.



Post# 90596 , Reply# 14   10/25/2005 at 06:56 (6,730 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands)        

foraloysius's profile picture
Nathan,

The Mieles on the American market are different from the ones sold in other countries. They are really dumbed down machines. They only have a Sensitive button. If you press that you get an extra rinse. I don't know what the default level for rinsing is.

Greg,

If you want to find out more about Miele washers, there is a showroom in Wellesley. I've been there with Jon and Paulo and we had a wonderful time. Don't forget to bring laundry!


CLICK HERE TO GO TO foraloysius's LINK


Post# 90614 , Reply# 15   10/25/2005 at 09:21 (6,729 days old) by lavamat_jon (UK)        

Hehehe... don't get me started on water levels...

However, I can testify that I have re-programmed the brain of my Miele to fill for max level in rinses regardless of load size or whether or not water plus has been added. In my family of 5, 2 have considerably sensitive skin so I have to make sure that pretty much every last trace of detergent is rinsed out of each load, especially when I have to use more detergent to compensate for the hard water around here (Darren, I'm sure you can testify to that!). Often get a lecture on THS about my detergent doses, but really they should experience the hard water we have in these here parts :-). Anyway, enough about that, as I said before I always use high level rinses in my Miele (although there's only 3, the 2nd rinse is almost always clear. On the AEG I tend to use the delicate cycles for clothes (Fashion or Easy Iron programmes are great, delicate enough to prevent any damage to delicates but at the same time ahs a strong enough action to get socks clean, as well as a fairly strong 1200rpm spin at the end) which always do a deep wash and rinse; however if I use the cottons cycles (usually for jeans, towels, or whites) I use the Sensitive option which not only adds an extra rinse to the additional rinse already selected, but raises the water level halfway up the door on the first 2 rinses, and on the last 3 fills to where the glass become flat. Rinses so much to the extent that the last rinse water would be drinkable if it wasn't for the softener, and where you can't smell deteregent on the load - even strong-scented detergents such as Bold!

On the Bosch, however, controversially I can only use non-biological (enzyme free) detergents, as the lower level rinses don't rinse out that well. I can use less biological Ariel in the Bosch with 4 shallow rinses, and still smell it on the laundry at the end, as well as the washed garments causing irritation to my dad and sister; whereas I can use a full scoop of Ariel in any of my machines upstairs with no detergent smell at the end of the cycle; and no complaints about skin irritation.

Of course, mention this on THS, and one certain member (whose name is almost another word for puke) will try and convince you that any machine can rinse out detergent in 3 low level rinses!

As far as I'm aware, several members on THS have been able to mod their "dumbed down" Miele's by using the programmable functions from Europe - i.e. you can actually programme the W1213 for high water rinses by following the same procedure as you would on the European W2514.

Hope this helps :-)

Jon


Post# 90621 , Reply# 16   10/25/2005 at 09:47 (6,729 days old) by westytoploader ()        

LOL...that's an oxymoron! A new American FL that's splashy...riiiiight!

Greg, you need to get yourself a potato-pulley Westinghouse! :)


Post# 90629 , Reply# 17   10/25/2005 at 11:18 (6,729 days old) by frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie)        

frigilux's profile picture
lavamat_jon---- Hmmmmm. Puke. Luke? Oh, wait; it was ANOTHER name for puke. Vomit? No rhymes come to mind. Retch. Rich! It's RICH, isn't it?

Ding-ding-ding-ding-ding!!!! Frigilux wins the prize. Or does he?


Post# 90690 , Reply# 18   10/25/2005 at 18:24 (6,729 days old) by lavamat_jon (UK)        

Nope, but he is THS' own Hyacinth Bucket, sorry, Bouquet LOL.

Think puke, sick, spew...

;-)

One really should stop being so bitchy hehe.


Post# 90709 , Reply# 19   10/25/2005 at 19:59 (6,729 days old) by frontloadfan (Wellfleet, Ma.)        

Reference:

Rich, the door is supposed to remain locked during the soak cycle even if the pause button is pushed simply for the above reason--no water flowing out the door when opened.

Response:

Appnut -

What you are saying is maybe true for some machines, but it is not true for my machine. The "Add a garment" light stays on for the first part of the Auto Soak and I have pushed the pause button and added garments with no problem.

I should point out that the water does not come to the bottom of the glass every auto soak, only some of the times. I think it must have to do with how the clothes position themselves as the drum is filling with water. I would say a majority of the times the water is not high enough to come out the door.



Post# 90714 , Reply# 20   10/25/2005 at 20:19 (6,729 days old) by launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        
Being Very

launderess's profile picture
Proper genteel persons are always "ill" or "sick" but never puke or heaven forbid vomit. Just as ladies never sweat, but glisten.

Launderess (ducking)

*LOL*


Post# 90729 , Reply# 21   10/25/2005 at 21:00 (6,729 days old) by kenmore1978 ()        
sweat

"Just as ladies never sweat, but glisten. "

I've heard the statement "horses sweat, people perspire"


Post# 90732 , Reply# 22   10/25/2005 at 21:14 (6,729 days old) by mayken4now (Panama City, Florida)        

mayken4now's profile picture
I do both and stink of foul odor! Yea, time for the washer!

Steve


Post# 90742 , Reply# 23   10/25/2005 at 21:43 (6,729 days old) by westyslantfront ()        
Front Loaders

Pardon me, but I am old school....a front loader should have water rise above the bottom of the window....so I will stick with vintage front loaders and for modern machines, my top loading norge-tag...great capacity tub and PLENTY of water to get clothes clean....and remove cat hair

Post# 90743 , Reply# 24   10/25/2005 at 21:45 (6,729 days old) by westyslantfront ()        
Front Loaders

And as if it wasn't bad enough to make front loaders without enough water in the tub, phosphates were removed from american detergents....thank goodness for mexican detergents with phosphates and they are available throughout the southwest...what else will someone think of to ruin doing laundry!!!!

Post# 90744 , Reply# 25   10/25/2005 at 21:46 (6,729 days old) by westyslantfront ()        

and how many people who claim to be energy conscious and conservationists driving gas guzzling SUV's??

Post# 90766 , Reply# 26   10/26/2005 at 05:40 (6,729 days old) by newwave1 (Lincoln, United Kingdom)        

newwave1's profile picture
hey guys,
another point. for those of you have seen the videos of my hoover logic i posted, my machine does something which no current machine i have come across does; aswell as having high water levels. it distributes for spin with a tub full of water,which i've nicknamed "power distribution" which pins the items against the sides of the drum with a hell of a lot of water still in the drum. which for my money,assists greatly with rinsing as it really drives the water through. i also find it helps balance the load great too! 9/10 times its balances first time. if not it dances around as theres no balance sensor lol. unlike modern machines i've come across which drain,tumble a bit & "attempt" to spin.

the point im tryin to make is. older machines are far superior. though don't get me wrong. i love aeg which i've had for 3years. its packed full of features but at the same time it has increased water levels & a jet. which i like.

i'm currently bidding on ebay uk for the later "New Wave" model which has electronic controls,front filling from the top of the seal, & spin during the wash cycle! which is about 300rpm i think or 400 i forget. it's also a washerdryer. im just hoping it does the distribution too. i can't remember if these machines do it.

thort i'd share a pic of the machine i'm bidding on to:) enjoy


anyhoo that was the point i wanted to share:D

D


Post# 90767 , Reply# 27   10/26/2005 at 05:46 (6,729 days old) by designgeek ()        

Pet hair is an interesting counterexample to the usual rule of less (water) is more (efficient).

Seems to me the best way to get rid of pet hair is to remove it with air rather than with water, since when wet it tends to stick to everything. So how'bout this: Before washing, run for five minutes in the tumble dryer on "air fluff" mode (no heat) just to loosen and remove the pet hair. Then into the washer and see if there's any more pet hair left to come out (e.g. a GE Filter Flo or equivalent, with the lint-catcher on the agitator post, so you can examine the fluff balls for pet hair).

Re. vehicles: Dodge Caravan minivan, which I need in order to haul equipment & coworkers around, but is more efficient than a regular-size van. 25 to 27 mpg highway depending on speed, as of last time I checked (a couple months ago).


Post# 90768 , Reply# 28   10/26/2005 at 06:21 (6,729 days old) by lavamat_daniele ()        
Spinning with water in the tub

My Zanussi IZ does this during the low-level rinsing on cotton cycle...while the jet is spraying water on clothes!
The rinse action is not so good anyway because of the low water level, so I set the machine to a low spin (600rpm) in order to have a higher level rinsing.


Post# 90775 , Reply# 29   10/26/2005 at 07:09 (6,729 days old) by frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie)        

frigilux's profile picture
Launderess--- OK, if we're going to be genteel about it, then my vote goes for 'yak'; as in "He ate raw fish, then yakked." :)

Post# 90818 , Reply# 30   10/26/2005 at 15:01 (6,728 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands)        

foraloysius's profile picture
Although I agree that a lot of modern frontloaders are very frugal with water I also think that people who are used to washing in a toploader have to get used to the quantity of water frontloaders use. Frontloaders wash with water, not in water.

BTW, Whirlpool already that in 1958. You can see that in the movie "The Wonderful World of Wash and Wear". I posted a link to it in the Super forum, in the link about the Prelinger Archive. Go there!


Post# 90827 , Reply# 31   10/26/2005 at 16:54 (6,728 days old) by gregm ()        
thanks for sharing and comments

thanks all for the feedback, it is helpful and interesting too

Post# 91152 , Reply# 32   10/28/2005 at 21:53 (6,726 days old) by jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)        
Greg

jetcone's profile picture
If you want to try a SQ front loader you can come try mine out and see if you like the washability.

j


Post# 91184 , Reply# 33   10/29/2005 at 02:48 (6,726 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands)        

foraloysius's profile picture
Jon,

Take Greg to the Miele showroom as well, and make sure he gets a Miele mug too!!


Post# 91205 , Reply# 34   10/29/2005 at 07:03 (6,726 days old) by mielerod69 (Australia)        
Higher water levels in a Miele

mielerod69's profile picture
HI everyone,
as Jon mentioned i helped him set the high water level rinse permenantly. All Miele washers allow you to do this. Before the customer could programme it in, but now you have to call a service tech to do it for you. I have the W487WPS and it rinses very well with 3 rinses, 2 rinses do a good job too if I do laundry that's not absorbent. The water plus can be programmed to give you the extra rinse. Nathan what Miele did you buy? I thought you were going to wait for the new model or did you get the W1986.


CLICK HERE TO GO TO mielerod69's LINK


Post# 91309 , Reply# 35   10/30/2005 at 01:41 (6,725 days old) by brisnat81 (Brisbane Australia)        
A W2515

Hi Rod,

After reading the reviews on the large capacity models, they werent rated nearly as well. Choice give one of the 5.5kg models a 94% the W1986 was rated at about 78%. I decided that I'd go for it with the W2515. So far I havent found any appreciable difference in load size from the TL.

I've found that the interval spins help a lot in suds extraction. If I have a load larger than the rated capacity (IE 2.5kg) on a cycle other the cottons, I find that the spin bursts or no intervals spins end up with lots more suds in the final rinse even with Water Plus turned on in its standard form. Quite often its only the fabric softener that makes the suds dissappear.

Other than that I've found so far that my whites are much brighter, Deoderant stains on shirts are fading and there is less wrinkling to iron out. I love the machine :)

My msn is nathanp81@hotmail.com if you'd like to chat?

Regards

Nathan


Post# 91329 , Reply# 36   10/30/2005 at 04:08 (6,725 days old) by mielerod69 (Australia)        
Congrats

mielerod69's profile picture
Hi Nathan,
you are becoming a real Miele convert. I knew the capacity wouldn't be too much of an issue. Anyone who has had an 8kg toplader finds the capacity more than enough in the Miele. You can programme in an additional rinse with the water plus function, which I have done with mine. I find the automatic programme good for mixed loads. Do you use the intensive option or have you left it with the rapid default? Yes whites do become much brighter without the use of bleach.
Regards
Rod



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