Thread Number: 38024
HOH parts
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Post# 565189   12/25/2011 at 12:38 (2,738 days old) by vintagelover ()        

Hi all. I recently purchased a house that had all vintage TOL appliances. Maytag HOH dryer built in November 1971 won't shut off automatically. Have read posts re possible solutions but can't seem to find any parts to replace with. Any suggestions?
Also own a tappan gas stove (looking for griddle) and a kitchen aid energy saver v Superba. Dishwasher is installed in a 4 foot metal cabinet. So cool!!!





Post# 565195 , Reply# 1   12/25/2011 at 14:31 (2,738 days old) by Kenmore71 (Minneapolis, MN)        

kenmore71's profile picture
Have you done the following diagnostic tests to try and ascertain where the problem is? You want to do the tests for the BAR BAFFLE design. (See following posts)

From my experience (which is limited), 90% of the problems with these machines stem from either a short to ground in the baffle wiring system or a failed electronic control capacitor. The wiring problen is easy enough to trace out. The capacitor can be replaced with somthing similar for $5-$10 from an audio electronics supply house. It is possible that there is something more complicated wrong with the innards of the electronic dry control but that is the last thing to look at and is the least likely.


Post# 565196 , Reply# 2   12/25/2011 at 14:39 (2,738 days old) by Kenmore71 (Minneapolis, MN)        

kenmore71's profile picture
Here's the Electrical schematic for this dryer.
The original rating for the electrolytic capacitor was 8uF.
If you replace the capacitor is should be with a polyestor or some other "film" type capacitor. Based on extensive experiments last summer, I would recommend somewhere between a 7 and 10 uF capacitor. Make sure it is rated for at least 100 volts DC. The ones I used were rated for 250 volts.

This drawing is for a gas dyer. The electric one isn't significantly different. You just substitute the heating element for the gas valve and realize that the other end of the heating element connects to the other "hot" leg instead of neutral. All of the other stuff is identical.


Post# 565201 , Reply# 3   12/25/2011 at 15:14 (2,738 days old) by Maytagbear (N.E. Ohio)        
Another HOH "trick"

is that sometimes the sensors in the drum vanes get gunked up with softener sheets.


Take an absolutely clean, slightly damp (water) cloth with texture (maybe terrycloth) and really rub the vanes, and do this to the three of them, changing parts of the cloth with each vane.


I HAD a HOH dryer, and I did this every so often, and it helped a lot.


I agree with the Maytag document about grounding, as well.



Best of luck, I think the HOH is a good dryer. Mine lasted for nearly 20 years.



Lawrence/Maytagbear


Post# 565204 , Reply# 4   12/25/2011 at 15:40 (2,738 days old) by goatfarmer (South Bend, home of Champions)        

goatfarmer's profile picture

Check the ground, it needs a seperate ground from the cabinet to a water pipe, etc.


Post# 565211 , Reply# 5   12/25/2011 at 17:36 (2,738 days old) by simplicity345 (Aliquippa,Pa)        
tappan griddle

I Have Some Tappan Stove Tefflon Griddle Any Questions You May Email Me @ mmichael11438@yahoo.com And I Will Get Back To You I Believe These Are The Kind That Goes Over The Burners

Post# 565214 , Reply# 6   12/25/2011 at 18:00 (2,738 days old) by Kenmore71 (Minneapolis, MN)        

kenmore71's profile picture
The ground is NOT the issue when it won't shut off. The fact that the capacitor is not building up enough charge to flash the neon tube means that it IS grounding just fine.

If the dryer is shutting off prematurely than it is often a grounding issue.


Post# 565281 , Reply# 7   12/26/2011 at 13:34 (2,737 days old) by Volvoguy87 (Cincinnati, OH)        
Chime.

volvoguy87's profile picture
I believe the chime is integral to the shutoff mechanism. Does your chime work?

Dave


Post# 565298 , Reply# 8   12/26/2011 at 16:11 (2,737 days old) by Kenmore71 (Minneapolis, MN)        

kenmore71's profile picture
Good point Dave! If it's chiming but not shutting off then there are a different set of issues to look at...

Post# 566271 , Reply# 9   1/1/2012 at 11:50 (2,731 days old) by vintagelover ()        
Now there's no heat

The bell never did chime, and as of last night, there is no heat. Am getting frustrated.

Post# 776484 , Reply# 10   8/9/2014 at 19:39 (1,780 days old) by sel8207 (naples, florida 34117)        
same problem

I have the same problem of dryer running continuously, not shutting off ,even when door is open. Looked at the ground siutation and ran dedicated ground wire from frame to house ground. Placed on damp dry with nothing in it to see if it would shut off and it didn't. Bell doesn't chime either. It's KDE806 dryer. Loooked and at removed capacitor. It doesn't have a positive or negative side to it. I looked up an 8uF, 250 volt capacitor, and can buy it but would be clueless as to which end (pos. or neg.)goes where. The capacitor on the machine has the two brown wires coming from it and and it says; maytag 3-1929 and under that 60-24227. The schematic above doesn't clarify the issue for me because both wires are brown and it doesn't show which side is pos. or neg. (but the schematic does help out a lot) And I know if you hook up the polarity wrong there could be a serious damage to the capacitor. Any information would help. thanks much, Les

Post# 776500 , Reply# 11   8/9/2014 at 22:19 (1,780 days old) by cornutt (Huntsville, AL USA)        

If you use the right kind of capacitor (film or polyester), they are non-polarized so it doesn't matter which way you connect them. Don't get an electrolytic capacitor.

Post# 776548 , Reply# 12   8/10/2014 at 10:05 (1,779 days old) by kenmore71 (Minneapolis, MN)        

kenmore71's profile picture
As mentioned, there is no polarity to these types of capacitors. Either terminal can be connected to either spot on the electronic control.

However, I think you may have other issues. If the dryer doesn't shut off when the door is opened how do you turn it off at all? Do you unplug it? Does the drum light come on when you open the door?

The grounding issue is irrelevant to this situation. Bad grounding causes the machine to shut off early as it doesn't allow the wet clothes to "short" the capacitor circuit to ground.

Run-on is caused by a weak capacitor, failed circuitry in the actual electronic control, or a short in the wiring to the drum baffles. Before you pulled the capacitor, did you perform the standard "first" test on the dryness control? That being pulling yellow wire #12 off of the selector switch and seeing if the dryer shuts off in the prescribed times for an empty dryer? If it did shut off properly with wire 12 removed then you have a situation where somewhere between the switch and drum baffles something is shorting to ground.

Does the heat remain on the entire time it's running?

If at some point the heat cycles off but the dryer continues to tumble it's possible that the cool-down thermostat is shorted in the closed position, but I don't think that what you are describing.

If you haven't yet, please take a moment to read this thread that I wrote a few years ago after I did a full restoration of a HOH dryer.


CLICK HERE TO GO TO kenmore71's LINK




This post was last edited 08/10/2014 at 10:27
Post# 783091 , Reply# 13   9/11/2014 at 19:27 (1,747 days old) by sel8207 (naples, florida 34117)        
problem still

Replaced the capacitor with the one specified. Still doesn't shut off.

Wouldn't know what wire is the #12 yellow as there seem to be three yellows coming out of the control.

Bulb in dryer was obvious burnt out.
Replaced bulb, but it still doesn't come on when you open the door.

Dryer still doesn't shut off under any selection, even with new capacitor.

Don't have schematic or manual for this dryer and can't find one.

I shut off the dryer by turning of circuit breaker to dryer, about 4 feet near the machine.

Suspicious of the door switch, which, I've reached behind the rubber gasket and can't seem to feel anything there. You know, was thinking that a plug had come undone, so forth, and I could plug it back in.
Enough for today. going to bed. As they say, tomorrow is another day. Les (thanks much for your advice.)


Post# 783114 , Reply# 14   9/11/2014 at 20:55 (1,747 days old) by Kenmore71 (Minneapolis, MN)        

kenmore71's profile picture

If it's still not shutting off, then the electronic control has failed OR the drum is somehow grounding itself.

 

I'm not sure how much more you can be helped. I posted the schematic in post #2 above. That IS the schematic. There is no other. It is the same as one that would have been glued to the back of the dryer.

 

 There are 8 wires off of the electronic control. Two of them are yellow. Wire #12 is actually marked "12" about every 6 inches along the wire. And it's yellow. The "other" yellow wire off of the electronic control is clearly marked "20". To be honest, for testing purposes it really doesn't matter which wire you remove. Either will remove the slip ring and bar baffles from the circuit and allow the capacitor to charge.

 

If you are that frustrated, I recommend you go and buy and buy a new dryer and have this one made into a new KIA. We have been more than helpful here in responding to your requests.


Post# 783178 , Reply# 15   9/12/2014 at 07:12 (1,746 days old) by sel8207 (naples, florida 34117)        
grateful

Am very grateful for the assistance received here. Can only work on it intermittently due to work, etc. Am sure this can be repaired. It dries great, I just have to use a timer and turn off the feed. Looks good too. Will work on it again soon. Thanks again. Les

Post# 783179 , Reply# 16   9/12/2014 at 07:13 (1,746 days old) by sel8207 (naples, florida 34117)        

This post has been removed by the member who posted it.



Post# 1020136 , Reply# 17   1/4/2019 at 18:21 by naturalnick (Chillum Gardens, Maryland )        
Maytag KDE 806

Hi all,

I'm having a similar issue. Running tests Mark posted above with the Yellow 12 wire disconnected. Will follow up shortly.

Thanks.
Dominick AKA Natural Nick


Post# 1020138 , Reply# 18   1/4/2019 at 19:51 by naturalnick (Chillum Gardens, Maryland )        
Maytag KDE 806 Test Results

Hi,

Following up on my earlier post:

During normal operation, the dryer shuts off automatically in the air fluff and damp dry modes. It does not shut off automatically in the Permanent Press and Regular cycles. Previously, the dryer seemed to run excessively long during those cycles. At first, just the Regular cycle, then also in the Permanent Press cycle, prior to it not shutting off automatically.

Following the trouble shooting guides Mark posted above, I disconnected the No.12 Yellow Wire and ran the dryer in the prescribed modes:

Damp Dry - Shut off in 10 seconds. The neon light in the control box flashed briefly when shutting off.
Air Fluff Cycle - Solenoid activated and then shut off in 9:45
Regular Cycle - Dryer heats then solenoid activated at approximately 10:20, then cool-down, then shut off.
Permanent Press - Dryer heats then solenoid activated at approximately 16:24, then cool-down, then shut off.

Regarding the neon light in the control box, it does not glow in any setting with the No. 12 wire connected. Checking shorter cycles, due to time constraints, the neon light flashed when shutting off in the damp dry cycle (with the No. 12 wire connected).

Dryer is properly grounded to a water pipe with dielectric fitting.

As described above, I cleaned the drum sensors and they are clean.
I do not use dryer sheets...don't like them. In washer I only use some Epsom salt for softening, when needed.

Regarding the chime. Mine does not and hasn't for a very very long time. Hence, I'm thinking it has nothing to do with dryer operation. I saw that someone posted that the mechanical part for the chime might be in the bottom of the dryer. It wasn't...I looked and even vacuumed the dust out of the unit and off of all electrical contacts.

Reading now about the capacitor. If that's the problem, can you point to a link where I can buy the correct one?

Posted some photos of the back panel components.

Any help is appreciated.
Thanks


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Post# 1020141 , Reply# 19   1/4/2019 at 20:47 by combo52 (Beltsville,Md)        
HOH Electronic Dryer That Does Not Shut Off

combo52's profile picture

Control and capacitor are OK, There is likley a slight short in the baffle circuit, it could be in a baffle, the wiring or the slip ring might be slightly grounded.

 

Rinsing clothing with epsom salts might not be a good idea in an electronic sensor dryer, never heard of anyone doing this, even when the clothing is dry it might be too conductive.

 

If you can't find a short try disconnecting one or two baffles, we often had to do this on older MT HOH dryers to get them to shut off.

 

I see your dryer had a new selector switch, what else has been done to it over the years and about how many loads a week was this dryer used for over its life.

 

John L.


Post# 1020146 , Reply# 20   1/4/2019 at 22:02 by naturalnick (Chillum Gardens, Maryland )        
Further testing

Thanks. Yeah the baffle might be the problem. I'll look into it later.

I've read another post where you talked about the connections to the circuit board.
Mine are actually in decent shape. I've checked all of the connectors on the board as well as the spade connections on the selector panel. Everything looks clean.
I am getting erratic readings in K ohms across the capacitor when probed. (disconnected from the board).

Yeah I noticed the selector is newer...made in mexico caught my eye.

The last time i remember servicing was for the door switch. The tech tried to get my Dad to buy a new dryer. I recall my Dad saying, "Either you fix it or I'll find someone who will."

Can't recall when the selector switch was replaced. Only other servicing was belts, that I'm aware of. It's been a reliable unit.

Thx.


Post# 1020148 , Reply# 21   1/4/2019 at 22:34 by naturalnick (Chillum Gardens, Maryland )        
ps...

I notice that if I physically move the solenoid bar to the right (as in photo) the dryer goes into cool down mode and shuts off.

As for other maintenance, I recall my dad changed the spade connector at the ballast, the blue one. He was checking it out after my mom said that the console light wasn't working.



Post# 1020208 , Reply# 22   1/5/2019 at 13:50 by LowEfficiency (Iowa)        

lowefficiency's profile picture
Dominick, I think you can do this, but you're jumping all over instead of following the advice of the diagnostic procedures, and you're ignoring the evidence that is telling you what is wrong and how to isolate it.

As John notes, you've already proven that the capacitor is functioning - you verified this yourself. So why keep looking for a replacement, or pull yours for additional tests?

The chime is an important diagnostic aid. Don't be so quick to dismiss the chime as having "nothing to do with dryer operation"... The solenoid which rings the chime is also the solenoid that tugs the control switch to the off position, so a fault there (electrical, mechanical binding, misalignment, out of adjustment) could easily cause other problems.

Please read and understand what others are saying to help you. When John says "There is likley a slight short in the baffle circuit, it could be in a baffle, the wiring or the slip ring might be slightly grounded.", he means just that. When you say "Yeah the baffle might be the problem" and dive into a dozen other things, you're focusing on a part instead of a condition, and missing the point entirely on what the next step would be to fix it.



Post# 1020211 , Reply# 23   1/5/2019 at 13:54 by LowEfficiency (Iowa)        

lowefficiency's profile picture
(Also note that the linkage between your solenoid and switch is installed upside-down.)

Post# 1020235 , Reply# 24   1/5/2019 at 15:45 by naturalnick (Chillum Gardens, Maryland )        

Thanks Dave. I'm good with my hands but a bit of a babe in the deep end with appliances.

My reason for questioning the cap is that K ohm readings across the cap are really erratic. I'm not very familiar with capacitors, although the test charge across them should eventually drop to infinity, which it did not do with that cap. Otherwise the other tests I performed indicate it's acting normally.

Agreed about what you indicate for the chime, however the solenoid is rather loud when it's activated. If you look at my photo of the selector there is a broken piece of the plate which probably connected the chime mechanism. I did check the solenoid mechanism for binding but neglected to mention that in my previous post. Thx for bringing that up.

Sorry for not tracing the logic of advice as well as I could be...just a bit outta my league, for now... I hope. heh.

By way of the linkage, you're referring to the paper clip looking linkage?

Thanks a bunch.


Post# 1020260 , Reply# 25   1/5/2019 at 20:33 by LowEfficiency (Iowa)        

lowefficiency's profile picture
Yep, the paperclip looking part.

Here's a good picture I found, posted by Mark in this thread:
"DE 806 won't shutoff"
(www.automaticwasher.org/c...)

You can see that when the clip is oriented correctly, the pull on the switch will be much more horizontal, and it won't interfere with the switch anymore. I almost wonder if someone purposely clipped the end of your switch off, so that the linkage would fit the wrong way?


  View Full Size
Post# 1020291 , Reply# 26   1/6/2019 at 02:59 by Naturalnick (Chillum Gardens, Maryland )        
Slip Ring

After a bit of reading and hopefully some comprehension I'm still struggling to understand how the slip ring works. I've read Mark's posts and will re-read. If I'm getting this correct, the slip ring is isolated from the chassis, drum etc. via the felt ring beneath. Therefore, there should be no continuity to the chassis.

I noticed that the ring had shifted and seemed to be in contact with the drum. As Drew mentioned in another thread he lightly sanded with 400 and I did the same with some Emory I have. It was rather clean but wanted to give it a buffing.

There is continuity between the ring and the drum, blower housing etc. Am I correct in thinking that there shouldn't be? I checked continuity with the spade connector removed.

The other question is does this ring/brush setup eventually deliver the charge to the capacitor? If so then the continuity to the chassis will bleed charge to ground and not to the cap.

I notice a little give between the slip ring and the felt. If I need to reposition it away from potential grounding at the drum, how should that be accomplished? I'm concerned that I'll damage the felt, which is in decent shape BTW.

Thanks to all for your help. You're the best. :)


Post# 1020307 , Reply# 27   1/6/2019 at 07:53 by combo52 (Beltsville,Md)        
HOH MT Dryers Slip Ring

combo52's profile picture

There should be no continuity between the ring and the drum and chassis of the dryer, I would say you found the problem.

 

I always used a little Hi-Temp glue to tack the ring in place on the felt to keep it from moving and touching the drum etc.

 

John L.


Post# 1020348 , Reply# 28   1/6/2019 at 15:30 by Naturalnick (Chillum Gardens, Maryland )        

Thanks. What is the best way to reposition the ring without damaging the felt or the edge of the ring? I notice that I can rotate the ring on the felt. Maybe gently use the flat side of a screwdriver to move it away from the drum?

Thx.


Post# 1020504 , Reply# 29   1/7/2019 at 21:09 by Naturalnick (Chillum Gardens, Maryland )        
Success!

I managed to carefully reposition the slip ring away from any contact and checked continuity. Took John's suggestion of using some high temp glue so the ring maintains the correct position.

Also as Dave recommended, the reversed the linkage. Now with improved alignment.

All settings operate normally.

Many thanks for all the guidance!


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Post# 1020546 , Reply# 30   1/8/2019 at 11:17 by LowEfficiency (Iowa)        

lowefficiency's profile picture
Excellent!

Was that enough to resolve the chime issue as well?


Post# 1020548 , Reply# 31   1/8/2019 at 11:33 by combo52 (Beltsville,Md)        

combo52's profile picture
Yay glad you got it working, Are you going to keep and use it now or get the newer GE dryer.

The MT is a really vintage, the newer GE dryer will do a much better job and is much safer as well.

John L.


Post# 1020549 , Reply# 32   1/8/2019 at 11:33 by combo52 (Beltsville,Md)        

combo52's profile picture
Yay glad you got it working, Are you going to keep and use it now or get the newer GE dryer.

The MT is a really cool vintage mzchine, the newer GE dryer will do a much better job and is much safer as well.

John L.


Post# 1020620 , Reply# 33   1/9/2019 at 01:04 by Naturalnick (Chillum Gardens, Maryland )        
Chime not working

Dave. The chime hasn't worked in decades. I can't see a striker or anything that would enable the chime to sound. Is there a separate mechanism that strikes the bell? Post a photo if you have one. In the diagram you posted, I don't see any mechanism that would chime.

In the solenoid and selector photo I posted part of the switch is broken as you pointed out. Is this where the chime strike would be located?


Post# 1020621 , Reply# 34   1/9/2019 at 01:18 by Naturalnick (Chillum Gardens, Maryland )        

Thanks John! Your help is invaluable! And Dave's as well (esp. In keeping me focused).

I'm thinking of keeping the Maytag. It has always worked beautifully. I have a very short dryer run and there has been no accumulation of lint.

The new dryer has been delivered but I didn't let them take the Maytag. The GE is decent but I think the Maytag is a superior machine.

If I let it go, I know I'll regret it.
By the way, the very existence of this forum is nothing short of a godsend!


Post# 1020665 , Reply# 35   1/9/2019 at 11:40 by LowEfficiency (Iowa)        

lowefficiency's profile picture
It's a bit hard to see in the diagram, but the striker is part 54157 / 52690. It would be a piece of metal (I think just a basic screw?) on the end of either a short piece of flexible wire or plastic.

If you have the space and electrical capacity, you should hook both dryers up! One washer with two dryers is a very favorable combination due to the imbalance of time it takes to wash and dry.


Post# 1020761 , Reply# 36   1/10/2019 at 19:41 by naturalnick (Chillum Gardens, Maryland )        
"Ask not for whom the bell tolls."

Dave,
Previously, I couldn't understand how the chime mechanism operated. Enlarging the photo once again and from your description, I can only quote Ernest Hemingway. Thank you!
I hope you can see the link.


CLICK HERE TO GO TO naturalnick's LINK


Post# 1020774 , Reply# 37   1/10/2019 at 22:15 by LowEfficiency (Iowa)        

lowefficiency's profile picture
That's it!
I love the sound of that bell.





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