Thread Number: 38565
FL Tub Capacities - I think they are lying!
[Down to Last]

automaticwasher.org's exclusive eBay Watch:
scroll >>> for more items --- [As an eBay Partner, eBay may compensate automaticwasher.org if you make a purchase using any link to eBay on this page]
Post# 572191   1/29/2012 at 16:00 (4,442 days old) by qualin (Canada)        

OK everyone... This has been bothering me for a while.

I stopped by the local Future shop today and noticed something interesting.

I think the washer manufacturers are lying about tub capacity..

Here's why...

The first shot I'm going to post is of a Frigidaire Gallery machine with a claimed 3.1 cu.ft tub capacity. I put my fist into the photo as a reference. The tub has a small opening and is quite deep.





Post# 572192 , Reply# 1   1/29/2012 at 16:01 (4,442 days old) by qualin (Canada)        

This shot is of a Samsung machine with a claimed 5.0 cu.ft capacity.

Post# 572193 , Reply# 2   1/29/2012 at 16:02 (4,442 days old) by qualin (Canada)        

This next shot is of a Whirlpool machine with a claimed 4.0 cu.ft tub capacity.

Post# 572194 , Reply# 3   1/29/2012 at 16:03 (4,442 days old) by qualin (Canada)        

And finally, a picture of my Huebsch, with a claimed 3.3 cu.ft tub capacity.

Post# 572197 , Reply# 4   1/29/2012 at 16:09 (4,442 days old) by qualin (Canada)        

Is it just me, but:

The Frigidaire has a considerably smaller tub capacity than my Huebsch..

The Whirlpool has a slightly larger diameter than my Huebsch, but is about the same depth...

The Samsung looks like it the same capacity has my Huebsch, but the tub is much deeper in comparison, even though it has the same diameter....

Opinions? Thoughts and feelings?


Post# 572301 , Reply# 5   1/29/2012 at 22:15 (4,442 days old) by pierreandreply4 (St-Bruno de montarville (province of quebec) canada)        
my toughts on this

pierreandreply4's profile picture
well qualin my toughs on this is maybe the tub is made by a sub contractent and not by the actual company

like for expemple if i look at your pic of the fridgedair Gallery the tub looks like it was made by lg for frigedair the samsung machine the tub looks like it was made by a company that makes smaller capacety machines and the whirlpool duet washer tub looks like it was made in there dryer factory and they only drill holes in the tub ss for water to evacuate and as for the tub of your huebesh washer i would estimate its made by lg because of the holes in the paddles but these are just my toughts on this i am not an expert...


Post# 572330 , Reply# 6   1/30/2012 at 03:42 (4,442 days old) by dj-gabriele ()        
You're right, manufacturers are lying about capacity!

Here in Europe, where the capacity is expressed in kilos of dry MIXED cottons, you can find different machines with the same tub:

as an example Candy might (and indeed does) sell the same machine branded as Hoover with a 7 kg capacity and another machine as Candy with a 6 kg capacity but the drum will be the same at around 54 litres of volume.
Top loading machines follow the same path! Hoover has a 8 kg toploader with a drum volume of 56 litres and Candy has a 7kg top loader with the same drum volume! (Which is anyway better than Electrolux claimed capacity of 8 kg with a 51 litres drum!)

They simply tweak variables like water loading and cycle time to manage the bigger washing capacity where the load is slightly more compressed.

The worst offenders are Asian brands like LG and Samsung that couple shoddy quality with exaggerated claimed capacities! So you can arrive at things like 11 or 12 kg in drums that are only around 75 litres of volume! Quite unbelievable uh? To fit that much laundry in there you really have to cram the machine full but thanks to the front loading washing machine qualities the load will come clean (long cycle times!) albeit much more creased! :O


Post# 572366 , Reply# 7   1/30/2012 at 10:14 (4,441 days old) by RevvinKevin (Tinseltown - Shakey Town - La-La Land)        
Looks can be deceiving - use a tape measure instead of your

revvinkevin's profile picture

 

 

I have wondered about this too and used a tape measure to check interior dimensions.  I know the Frigidaire (1st photo) looks small because the door opening / boot is small.

 

I've found that the tub diameter (measured across) are all very close to each other, usually within a 1/2 inch.   It's the depth of the tub and the size of the paddles / baffles that makes the difference.   Granted I've not had the opportunity to measure a Speed Queen FL, but I will when I can find one.

 

Kevin

 

P.S.  Frigidaire is owned / made by Electrolux.


Post# 572438 , Reply# 8   1/30/2012 at 15:12 (4,441 days old) by nrones ()        
I don't think

we can call that lying, or whatever similar...

There is just one thing that everyone should know, and it is that bigger capacity written on the label doesn't nececarily mean it has bigger drum. It means machine can wash that amount of laundry in once.

It is up to "personal decision" of manufacturer weather they will choose to have bigger drums and shorter time, less creases etc, or smaller drums, with longer time, but time saving comes on less washes per week. Many of them choose creases, and long washing times, because nowdays higher number of KG machine can take is one of most important marketing parts

Everything written on the label is true, and can be done, otherwise "lie" machines couldn't go out on a market, and lot of them don't, however we are just not informed about that :) (at least regulations in Europe are like that)

dj-gabriele
Just a little correction, 7kg Candy's have 50l drums not 54 (you can see that in my images from the factory) :)

Dex




Post# 572464 , Reply# 9   1/30/2012 at 16:36 (4,441 days old) by dj-gabriele ()        
7kg Candy's have 50l drums

...even smaller than I tought!

But they wash so damn well! :O
Candy anyday for me (when it comes at washing!)


Post# 572511 , Reply# 10   1/30/2012 at 20:39 (4,441 days old) by pierreandreply4 (St-Bruno de montarville (province of quebec) canada)        
my 2004 duet whirlpool washer

pierreandreply4's profile picture
when i bought back in 2004 my generation 1 whirlpool duet washer the tub drum was label 3.8 capacety but when i look at it it has the capacety of a 3.2 topload tub so i think that they should but when it comes to capacety kilos on the label the actual tub drum size when it comes to the size when i have to wash my double bed comftor i have trouble loading it in my fl washer unless i fully push it in by hand if not the door will not close

Post# 572530 , Reply# 11   1/30/2012 at 21:49 (4,441 days old) by RevvinKevin (Tinseltown - Shakey Town - La-La Land)        
A few examples of what I was talking about...

revvinkevin's profile picture

 

 

This is the interior dimensions of the small round door Frigidaire (first photo) rated @ 3.1 cu. ft.

 

21.5" across by 11" deep


Post# 572531 , Reply# 12   1/30/2012 at 21:53 (4,441 days old) by RevvinKevin (Tinseltown - Shakey Town - La-La Land)        

revvinkevin's profile picture

 

 

Here next model Frigidaire came out with (after?) the small round door.  It had a larger opening, a "square door". and was rated @ 3.5 cu. ft. 

 

22" across by 11.5" deep


Post# 572532 , Reply# 13   1/30/2012 at 21:57 (4,441 days old) by RevvinKevin (Tinseltown - Shakey Town - La-La Land)        

revvinkevin's profile picture

 

 

This is a Maytag Neptune which was rated @ 3.2 cu. ft.   It was a little difficult to measure because of all the rounded "corners".

 

Basically 21.5 across by 12 - 12.25" deep.


Post# 572536 , Reply# 14   1/30/2012 at 22:06 (4,441 days old) by RevvinKevin (Tinseltown - Shakey Town - La-La Land)        

revvinkevin's profile picture

 

 

This is a 2009 Kenmore Elite (last year of the Whirlpool built machines), rated @ 4.4 cu. ft.

 

21.5" across by 14.25 - 14.5" deep.

 

When I was looking at this before I bought it, there was this blue one and a red one next to it, except for the color the machines looked identical.   Upon closer inspection I noticed the RED one was built in Germany, was rated at 4.0 cu. ft. and had a top spin speed of I believe 1300 rpm.   The BLUE washer I bought (the red one was sold, ARG!) was built in Mexico, was rated at 4.4 cu. ft. and has a top spin speed of 1100 rpm.    The internal dimensions were was EXACTLY the same on both.   The only difference.... was the paddles, or baffles.   The RED washer with 4.0 rating had LARGER paddles/baffles then the BLUE washer rated @ 4.4 cu. ft.   I was surprised to see only smaller paddles/baffles made the difference of 0.4 cu. ft.

 

Kevin


Post# 572573 , Reply# 15   1/31/2012 at 02:54 (4,441 days old) by qualin (Canada)        

Wow, Good point. I wonder what the sales people will think if I bring a tape measure onto the showroom floor. :)

Post# 572577 , Reply# 16   1/31/2012 at 03:27 (4,441 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie)        

frigilux's profile picture

I'm wondering if there was a change in how tubs are rated for cu. ft. capacity.  Case in point:  When my 2010 Frigidaire washer (model 4474) was first advertised, the tub was rated at 4.6 cu. ft.  A few months later, I believe that number was reduced to 4.2 cu. ft.  If you go to the Frigidaire site today, it's rated at 3.81 cu. ft.  Did Frigidaire really reduce the size of the tub, or is something else afoot?

 

 


Post# 572585 , Reply# 17   1/31/2012 at 04:36 (4,441 days old) by ronhic (Canberra, Australia)        

ronhic's profile picture

My 6.5kg Westinghouse badged and Italian made Zanussi is 11" deep and 17 3/4 wide....


Post# 572603 , Reply# 18   1/31/2012 at 07:57 (4,441 days old) by Iheartmaytag (Wichita, Kansas)        

iheartmaytag's profile picture

The reason washers began being listed by Cu. Ft rather than lbs was a more honest approach.  18lbs of blue jeans is going to be considerably less than say 18 lbs of lace curtins.  In fact one probably couldn't get 18 1bs of lace in a machine. Where as 3.0 cu ft of either is still 3.0 cu ft.

 

Now that's not to say that manufacturers didn't gild the lilly a bit on either measurement.  I think as someone said above, the measure is more of what you can get in it rather than what you should. put in it.   It is also my understanding that the measure is taken before the agitator is added on top loaders. but with the baffles/paddles on front loaders. 


Post# 572654 , Reply# 19   1/31/2012 at 11:05 (4,440 days old) by RevvinKevin (Tinseltown - Shakey Town - La-La Land)        

revvinkevin's profile picture

 

 

To reference to Eugene's comment, yes it's very interesting how manufacturers "conjure" up these capacity numbers.  

 

Last summer I went to our local Sears Outlet store (mostly scratch & dent) with a friend and looked at a lot of the washers they had, both TL & FL.   Among the numerous brands and models there, I was surprised to see SO MANY different Frigidaire Affinity FL models and SO MANY different capacity ratings.   Same basic model, same control layout, same size and shape door, some with more features or options and they all looked the same inside.   I was amazed to see capacities ranging from 3.5, 3.7, 3.8, 4.0 and 4.2 cu ft in washers that look like essentially the same machine.

 

I looked at Frigidaire's website this morning and am surprised to see the capacity ratings on all these washers have been reduced!    That small door Frigidaire washer I have (first of both Qualin's and my photos) which USED to be rated at 3.1 cu. ft. capacity is NOW rated at 2.65 cu. ft. capacity.   The other models that used to be rated at 4.4 cu ft is now 3.81, 4.2 cu ft > now 3.68, 4.0 cu ft > now 3.65,  3.8 cu ft > now 3.26 and 3.7 cu ft is now 3.23.   What amazes me is the Affinity line has FIVE DIFFERENT capacities!   What the hell?

 

Does anyone know what happened on this capacity rating system?    Did the Government clamp down on them for false claims or advertising  or something?

 

I saw in some documentation or an ad or something where "they" claimed my 4.4 cu ft rated Kenmore Elite washer can wash 25 bath towels at once.    Well... one day not long after I got it, I tried.   I have to say they must have used smaller than standard "bath towels" because I was only able to fit 16 in there and OMG I was REALLY stuffing and packing them in!!   I went ahead and ran a cycle just to see how it did and boy it was really loaded!!   Each time it tried to balance and spin it had a REALLY difficult time trying to get balanced, taking 10 - 15 minutes or more dinking around.   After the 2nd try I stopped it and split the load in half.   It was much happier after that!

 

Kevin




This post was last edited 01/31/2012 at 16:05
Post# 572664 , Reply# 20   1/31/2012 at 11:52 (4,440 days old) by Hunter (Colorado)        
IIRC

Manufacturers USED to rate tub cubic feet as "Cubic feet in the tub for laundry plus the amount you'd use IF you had an agitator in it."

For example, if a top loader was 6 cubic feet but 2 cubic feet were taken up by the agitator the capacity was 4 cubic feet.

Now enter front loaders. If a front loader tub has a capacity of 4 cubic feet BUT a 4 cubic foot capacity top loader would include a 2 cubic foot agitator for 6 cubic feet in all - they said it was 6 cubic feet because, after all, a top loader would need that size drum to be able to hold that much volume.

It makes your head ache.

I'd rather know the absolute volume of the drum in whatever units are appropriate (liters, feet, whatever).


Post# 572701 , Reply# 21   1/31/2012 at 14:57 (4,440 days old) by ronhic (Canberra, Australia)        

ronhic's profile picture

Capacity in kilograms or pounds always refers to, and has done in this country and most others, to dry weight cotton fabrics.....there is no confusion if people bother to read their owners manuals where it is normally spelt out that

 

From a front load perspective:

 

- cotton cycles are can be run at capacity weight or a full drum

- synthetic cycles are normally at 1/2 capacity or half way up the door

- wool is normally at 1/3 capacity or just below half way up the door

- handwash is normally at 1/5-1/4 capacity or just a little over the edge of the drum seal.

 

....and there are often graphics in the books to give a visual representation.

 

Ultimately, these are all guides for the consumer to enable them to get the best out of their machines. However, as I've mentioned before, the CU FT measurement is complete nonsense outside of the showroom - a consumer can't measure it at home but with a KG or LB measurement they can weigh their washing if they wish.....


Post# 572793 , Reply# 22   2/1/2012 at 02:45 (4,440 days old) by qualin (Canada)        

It makes me wonder, with LG releasing their new 6.0 cu.ft models, how much of that is marketing speak and what is the real weight capacity of the machine?

I believe commercial grade frontloading 30 lb machines have a 6.2 cu.ft tub capacity. These are MASSIVE machines too. Especially the soft mount ones.

My GE Top Loader had a claimed 4.1 cu.ft capacity tub, but I found that due the agitator, between the Huebsch and the GE, they hold about the same amount of clothing.

My test for capacity is the "Demin Jeans" test. I found that I could put 7 pairs of jeans weighing 12 lbs into it. 8 pairs if I stuff it a bit and 9 pairs if I pack it in. BTW, These are 40 x 30 jeans. (Yeah, I could stand to lose some weight.)

My GE Toploader could fit about 7 pairs in normally and that was about it. Anything more and the turnover was pathetic or non-existant. My mother in law keeps warning me that I'll break my machine if I keep doing that though.

If I could, I'd personally like to see how many pairs of jeans I could stuff into that 6.0 cu.ft LG. More to the point, I'd like to see it dance around when it hits the spin cycle.


Post# 572794 , Reply# 23   2/1/2012 at 02:47 (4,440 days old) by qualin (Canada)        
To Ronhic

That's some great advice BTW.

My user manual just says, "Put the clothes in loosely into the drum until they reach the top, do not pack the clothes in."

I'll keep your advice in mind the next time I'm washing something other than cottons.


Post# 572860 , Reply# 24   2/1/2012 at 11:25 (4,439 days old) by RevvinKevin (Tinseltown - Shakey Town - La-La Land)        

revvinkevin's profile picture

 

Bud, what are the internal dimensions of your Huebsch / Speed Queen washer?

 

Thanks,

 

Kevin


Post# 572863 , Reply# 25   2/1/2012 at 12:05 (4,439 days old) by runematic (southcentral pa)        

runematic's profile picture
Here's the deal on tub capacities and the changing of the rated size. Some companies used IEC (international efficiency {i've also heard other names used instead of efficiency}}} commission) measurements and some used DOE (dept of energy) measurements. IEC used to be used exclusively for HE washers. For example Whirlpool/Maytag had been using IEC measurements and now have gone to the DOE measurements. The DOE uses a different testing system than the IEC. IEC seemed to have fluffed sizes and the DOE system seems to have a more realistic and smaller capacity rating. So, the Maxima, for example, was rated at 5.0cuft IEC and is now shown at 4.3cuft DOE. Same washer, same tub, new measurement.

Post# 572867 , Reply# 26   2/1/2012 at 12:27 (4,439 days old) by RevvinKevin (Tinseltown - Shakey Town - La-La Land)        
tub capacities and the changing of the rated size

revvinkevin's profile picture

 

 

Thanks so much for explaining that Todd!   It sure would be nice if everyone (goverment agencies) were all on the same page with this.   But at least it sounds like "the industry" are all on the same page now.

 

Thanks!

Kevin 


Post# 572907 , Reply# 27   2/1/2012 at 15:15 (4,439 days old) by lagom ()        
D.O.E. v. I.E.C.

Hi,

Long time reader for years, but this is my first reply.

The I.E.C. (International Efficiency Consortium) and the D.O.E. (U.S. Department Of Energy) want to organize and establish the ground rules for how the washer and dryer capacities are calculated. In April 2011, a set of guidelines were established and many manufacturers helped to create the input.

The clever marketing departments were calculated capacity based on the total volume, not usable volume of the drum/tank. The difference is accounting for the space taken up by the agitator or paddle.

For myself, usable capacity is the space below the maximum waterline to operate a cycle.

Thanks for allowing me to share this information; I really enjoy reading the discussions presented here.


Post# 572949 , Reply# 28   2/1/2012 at 18:27 (4,439 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California)        

sudsmaster's profile picture
I suppose what should be mentioned is that capacity of American washers is measured using a top loader standard. Top loaders are rated by their total capacity, including the space taken up by the agitator. Front loaders are measured at their actual volume, plus what an agitator would take up. So while the original Neptune front loader might have a drum with a real capacity of 2.7 cu ft, the mfg is allowed to add .3 cu ft to that and claim a capacity of 3.0 cu ft. This is also known as the IEC standard, although what those letters stand for escapes me at the moment.

BTW, the Miele washer manuals also advice progressively less loading the more delicate or fussy the fabric and form take. The full load rating is for sturdy cotton fabrics.


Post# 573037 , Reply# 29   2/2/2012 at 04:09 (4,439 days old) by qualin (Canada)        
To RevvinKevin

Hey Kevin, I have yet to measure the inside of the drum yet. Been busy with other things.

When I do that, I'll post to this thread. I suspect it'll be fairly close to the Kenmore, the drums look similar.



Forum Index:       Other Forums:                      



Comes to the Rescue!

The Discuss-o-Mat has stopped, buzzer is sounding!!!
If you would like to reply to this thread please log-in...

Discuss-O-MAT Log-In



New Members
Click Here To Sign Up.



                     


automaticwasher.org home
Discuss-o-Mat Forums
Vintage Brochures, Service and Owners Manuals
Fun Vintage Washer Ephemera
See It Wash!
Video Downloads
Audio Downloads
Picture of the Day
Patent of the Day
Photos of our Collections
The Old Aberdeen Farm
Vintage Service Manuals
Vintage washer/dryer/dishwasher to sell?
Technical/service questions?
Looking for Parts?
Website related questions?
Digital Millennium Copyright Act Policy
Our Privacy Policy