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Thread Number: 3968
Modern Front Loader Tub Design |
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Post# 93698 11/13/2005 at 04:43 (6,738 days old) by launderess  (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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It seems most if not all front loaders sold for home use today, still use a variant of the Bendix "scoop and ladle" tub design. Here four "paddles" (either SS and part of the tub, or plastic and attached)fill with water from between the tubs at 6 o'clock, and pour this water over the laundry at 12 o'clock. Theory behind this, IIRC was the water forces dirt/muck out in washing and detergent/much out when rinsing. My mind wondered about this as have never seen a commercial or laundromat washer with the same design. They seem to have three fins/bars without any holes to scoop up water. Rather laundry is lifted and dropped/slapped back down against the tub. Is there a reason why commercial units are different? Also why only three fins instead of four? Is more better or less? Launderess | ||
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Post# 93717 , Reply# 1 11/13/2005 at 07:44 (6,738 days old) by toggleswitch (New York City, NY) |
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Three scoops please. May I have a sugar cone....
I am thinking no scoop /ladle in commerical untis in that IMHO those holes would weaken the paddles and are a good place to trap foreign objects. I see lack therof as a relibility "improvement". Who has four paddles? Comm'l or domestic? My machines (both W&D) have three each. I am guessing that you bleieve com;l machines have four. I am thinking less motor strain when hugely oveloaded, as people who pay per load are inclined to do. Anyone agree or disagree with that? | ||
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Post# 93735 , Reply# 3 11/13/2005 at 09:25 (6,737 days old) by toggleswitch (New York City, NY) |
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Post# 93903 , Reply# 5 11/14/2005 at 12:45 (6,736 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands) |
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"Agreed, the paddles that sprinkle water on the load are a potential risk for objects or even lint buildup causing cloggage over time. Whether this ever actually becomes a problem remains to be seen; time will tell." Until now I don't have that problem with my frontloaders. My Miele is 15 years old and the paddles still sprinkle the water on the load. My AEG is a bit younger, no clogged paddles here either. If there would be any lint in the paddles, I'm sure it will come out during the spin cycle. | ||
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Post# 93916 , Reply# 6 11/14/2005 at 14:44 (6,736 days old) by toggleswitch (New York City, NY) |
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Paddle cloggage.
I was implying more of a problem in a commericial setting where the numb-nut customers "forget" to empty their pockets of all manner of S- - T. Don't you just LOVE gum in a commerical dryer, or stickers or safety pins, etc. I'm Sure Peter H of Atlanta can chime in here with some commerical machine "accessories" he has found in the drums and tubs. | ||
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Post# 93919 , Reply# 8 11/14/2005 at 15:19 (6,736 days old) by toggleswitch (New York City, NY) |
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| Post# 93947 , Reply# 9 11/14/2005 at 17:16 (6,736 days old) by westytoploader () | ||
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Sprinkling baffles My WW Dual-Tumble (1993 model) has holes strategically placed in the 2 plastic vanes to help with lint removal. They do "shower" the clothes with water and suds during wash, though it's hard to see with the water splashing around! | ||
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Post# 93974 , Reply# 10 11/14/2005 at 19:43 (6,736 days old) by jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers) |
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Six baffles
My GE combo has 6 baffles. Now that really gets things moving, it looks like Niagara Falls in there. Bendix used and patented 4 baffles in 1937. There were and always was in a Bendix 2 sets of one height and 2 sets of another height. The different heights broke up the tumbling pattern and prevented the wash from balling up just like in a Slant front Westinghouse. Westinghouse ended up with 3 baffles on the slant front but started with 5, my 1949 Streamliner has 5 baffles. All very baffleing! | ||
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Post# 94065 , Reply# 12 11/15/2005 at 10:30 (6,735 days old) by frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie) |
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All four FL units I've had over the years 'shower' the clothes via holes in the paddles. I've never believed they actually do much. Generally, the only time I can really see the shower happening is if a paddle stops at the top of the tub during a pause. Otherwise, it looks like the clothes are stopping most of the shower effect since they're pushed up against the paddles during tub rotation. I doubt there'd be much difference in cleaning if the paddles were solid... Of course I never thought rational people in the 21st century would believe the earth is only 10,000 years old, either, so what do I know? | ||
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Post# 94072 , Reply# 13 11/15/2005 at 12:27 (6,735 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands) |
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Here's a page that shows how a frontloader is working. It's in German, but the animation are interesting. If you scroll down the page you see an animation of a tumbling drum. The drum is almost empty, but you can see how the spraying works. If the drum is full with clothes, this system still works. What this animation doesn't show is that Miele's tumble at two speeds. The slower phase is for wetting the clothes, the faster one to really wash them. This is how it goes: Clockwise 40rpm, clockwise 55rpm, pause, counter clockwise 40rpm, counter clockwise 55rp, pause etc. etc. On the slower speed the laundry doesn't get lifted as high ofcourse as on the faster speed, therefor the clothes are saturated better by the sprays at the slower speed and get washed more thoroughly at the higher speed. Ingenious, isn't it?
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Post# 94073 , Reply# 14 11/15/2005 at 12:40 (6,735 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands) |
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Forgot the link | ||
| Post# 94076 , Reply# 15 11/15/2005 at 12:55 (6,735 days old) by peterh770 (Marietta, GA) | ||
Honestly, I think scoop-n-ladel, just like HE detergents are a crock. I have yet to see it really work effectively for anything. I think it is a marketing thing to brag on that really does nothing. Last year, Maytag introduced in their commercial machines "Turbo Wash". According to them, they use less water and do better cleaning. When talking with the reps, I asked them to specifically tell me what Turbo Wash is. They told me that they pack a miniature Tom Turbomatic in every machine! KIDDING!!! No, they said that the new holes in the lifting vanes cause more water turbulance which makes for better cleaning. RIIIIIIGHT!!! Utter nonsense. Wascomat put holes in their vanes with the Gen 6 models but couldn't give me a reason why they decided to do so. At least they were honest. Before I got my Miele, I read all I could about it and couldn't wait to see it in action, thinking I was getting something really special, especially for the wool and delicates. Either the tub turns too fast and centrifigal force doesn't allow the water to "shower down" on the load, or the tub turns too slow so that any water in there has slipped out by the time the vanes are at a 10 or 2 o'clock position, or the tub stops for reversing before any vane gets up high enough to shower. Whatever... | ||
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Post# 94280 , Reply# 18 11/16/2005 at 11:17 (6,734 days old) by tomturbomatic (Beltsville, MD) |
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After seeing the animation, I see the holes are not at the top of the baffle, but just below it. I guess it is still possible for the solid part to carry some water up, especially when the clothes are covering the holes on the way up. | ||
| Post# 94286 , Reply# 19 11/16/2005 at 12:16 (6,734 days old) by peterh770 (Marietta, GA) | ||
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My 1918 starts with the medium tumble for the first 5 minutes or so of the cycle (Cottons & PP), then it shifts to the 2 speed tumbling for the majority of the cycle. About the last 20 minutes of the cycle, it is all fast tumble. Rinses are medium tumble. When selecting the Rapid cycle, after the meduim soaking tumble, the whole cycle is fast tumble.
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Post# 94291 , Reply# 20 11/16/2005 at 13:43 (6,734 days old) by cleanteamofny ((Monroe, New York) |
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| Post# 95260 , Reply# 22 11/22/2005 at 20:37 (6,728 days old) by peterh770 (Marietta, GA) | ||
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Post# 95332 , Reply# 23 11/23/2005 at 07:20 (6,728 days old) by tomturbomatic (Beltsville, MD) |
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Ipso. Does anyone remember Archie Bunker, maybe, although I think Jackie Gleason and Art Carney made the same joke of saying ipso fatso for ipso facto, (by the fact itself)? | ||
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Post# 99640 , Reply# 27 12/23/2005 at 22:20 (6,697 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California) |
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I'm surprised nobody's even mentioned the original Neptune design, which has six half-paddles that Maytag calls "Waterfall Baffles". These have no holes at all, but are molded with little channels. Maytag's animation shows the baffles scooping up water and showering it on the laundry. However, since Maytag decided to fit this washer with a solid door, for all I can tell there really might be tiny baffled Tom Turbomatics in there doing all the work. Miele's literature makes much of "fall height" which it says is lost in tilted drum designs. Personally I think all these designs have their pros and cons; the main thing is that the primary mode of FL cleaning is tumbling, where the clothes are more gently sloshed around in a puddle as opposed to being dragged around in a pool of water in a traditional top loader agitator design. Miele makes the apt comparison of tumble washing to the original method of doing laundry: dipping the item in a river and slapping it on a smooth rock. However, to date, nobody had introduced a machine that incorporates smooth rocks. | ||
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