Thread Number: 39823
Questions for rollermatic experts |
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Post# 589718   4/15/2012 at 17:42 (4,386 days old) by PhilR (Quebec Canada)   |   | |
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My 1968 Rollermatic washer works but it makes some noise during agitation. There is some up/down play in the agitator and when I move the agitator up-down by hand and I look under the washer, the agitate arm and agitate shaft seems to move sideways. When I move turn the agitator clockwise or counterclockwise, there is some play too. The keyway seems to stop it but I'm wondering if it hurts something to operate it like that (it does work and doesn't leak) but if there's something that needs to be replaced, I'd like to correct this situation!
See the link. CLICK HERE TO GO TO PhilR's LINK This post was last edited 04/15/2012 at 18:01 |
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Post# 589721 , Reply# 1   4/15/2012 at 17:49 (4,386 days old) by PhilR (Quebec Canada)   |   | |
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Post# 589723 , Reply# 2   4/15/2012 at 17:51 (4,386 days old) by PhilR (Quebec Canada)   |   | |
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Now, the up and down play and the noise it makes... It appears worse than it is in the video. When there is water in the washer, it's not that noisy and you can barely hear it from underneath... CLICK HERE TO GO TO PhilR's LINK |
Post# 589724 , Reply# 3   4/15/2012 at 17:53 (4,386 days old) by PhilR (Quebec Canada)   |   | |
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Post# 589742 , Reply# 4   4/15/2012 at 19:11 (4,386 days old) by PhilR (Quebec Canada)   |   | |
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Post# 589743 , Reply# 5   4/15/2012 at 19:15 (4,386 days old) by joelippard (Hickory)   |   | |
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That certainly is a fine looking machine you have there! My 68' is like this as well and has been for years. I think part of it is simply wear. There is no problem in the first video, this is how it should be. The second video exhibits the wear that I believe is in the agitate shaft, but we don't exactly go out and pull new ones off trees so I'd say if it ain't broke don't fix it. In your third video this is nothing out of the ordinary for a partially disassembled machine with no water or clothes in it. Your final video just exhibits the same "worn" condition.
I would recommend you do a thorough cleaning of the rollers and all around the agitate arm area. Be sure when you reassemble the cone that you use large flat rubber spacer washers between the cones in order to ward off cone hop in the future. Do yourself a favor as well and put a little anti-sieze compound inside the pulsator nut and then tighten it very tight.
It would be nice to see a video of it operating under normal conditions with a load of clothes showing both the mechanism operating and the wash action. This also will give the best overall test and evaluation of it's operating condition. Congratulations to you on a beautiful machine, and a Rapidry no less! |
Post# 589744 , Reply# 6   4/15/2012 at 19:18 (4,386 days old) by joelippard (Hickory)   |   | |
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Post# 589745 , Reply# 7   4/15/2012 at 19:24 (4,386 days old) by frigidaireguy (Wiston-Salem, NC)   |   | |
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Joe: You are an absolute genius with these machines - You are a great asset to this website. Thanks for all your help and input with all of our machines. Bob |
Post# 589758 , Reply# 8   4/15/2012 at 20:01 (4,386 days old) by rollermatic (cincinnati)   |   | |
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i've rebuilt 3 rollermatics and am working on no. 4 and i have never experienced as much play as you are showing in those videos.
that third video showing that back and forth play does not seem at all right to me. that agitate shaft should be firm inside that spin shaft, not moving back and forth like that. and i just checked the 3 of mine that are up and running and my agitator will rotate back and forth a wee bit on all 3 of mine, the same for all. but nothing like the rotation you are showing in your first video. i don't know what to tell you do unless you want to tear it down and inspect everything. i do have a copy of that manual also should you need it. it is a big help when rebuilding one of those washers! that's a beautiful machine you have there! love the top and control panel. good luck with it. maybe someone else can comment more. |
Post# 589772 , Reply# 9   4/15/2012 at 20:22 (4,386 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)   |   | |
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Phil unfortunately all three videos show real, problems the bushings inside the spin shaft are very worn and you need yet another spin shaft. The agitator shaft might be worn a little but the bushings inside the spin shaft usually wear much faster as they are bronze. If parts were readily available I would replace both. If you keep using the machine much longer you will diffidently destroy the agitate shaft. |
Post# 589785 , Reply# 10   4/15/2012 at 21:04 (4,386 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)   |   | |
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Post# 589797 , Reply# 11   4/15/2012 at 21:31 (4,386 days old) by PhilR (Quebec Canada)   |   | |
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Thanks for your answers! Anybody knows where to find those bushings? Thanks Joe for the manual! I'm downloading it at the moment.
It's not very noisy during spin or agitation with water and clothes in it. But I want to replace the bushings before something goes bad! (I mean real bad!).
I am uploading small videos on Youtube of it while washing clothes. I did clean the inner tub, and replaced the agitator tonight with a new one. There's no more stains at the bottom like in the videos I did earlier today... Again the camera on my phone makes the noise seem much worse than it really is but it's still evident that it needs to be fixed!
CLICK HERE TO GO TO PhilR's LINK This post was last edited 04/16/2012 at 03:21 |
Post# 589803 , Reply# 12   4/15/2012 at 22:12 (4,386 days old) by PhilR (Quebec Canada)   |   | |
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Post# 589804 , Reply# 13   4/15/2012 at 22:13 (4,386 days old) by PhilR (Quebec Canada)   |   | |
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Post# 589806 , Reply# 14   4/15/2012 at 22:15 (4,386 days old) by PhilR (Quebec Canada)   |   | |
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Post# 589808 , Reply# 15   4/15/2012 at 22:21 (4,386 days old) by PhilR (Quebec Canada)   |   | |
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Post# 589877 , Reply# 16   4/16/2012 at 06:53 (4,386 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)   |   | |
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Post# 589882 , Reply# 17   4/16/2012 at 07:09 (4,386 days old) by PhilR (Quebec Canada)   |   | |
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John, I did figure that after I read again your previous post! Then I'm wondering where should I get the spin shaft?!
Here's a picture of the washer next to the almost matching dryer! I have never seen a Gold Crown dryer like that. It's a BOL model with only timed drying... The other ones I have seen were more like Custom Deluxe dryers. I'll have to repaint it soon! It's a good thing it doesn't have a porcelain top like my similar Canadian Frigidaire dryer! |
Post# 589905 , Reply# 18   4/16/2012 at 09:47 (4,386 days old) by rollermatic (cincinnati)   |   | |
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i started collecting rollermatics back in 2009 and quickly discovered that parts are almost non existent. i found bellows, main tub seals, timers, one jet cone agitator but that's about it. and i really looked for 2 years everywhere i could find. larry in parma (modern parts) mark michaels (e bay) dave's repair (website) but i can't remember seeing one spinshaft. i think mark michaels may have had an agitate shaft but it's been almost 3 years ago so i could be wrong.
i myself don't have any extra parts at this time as i have only rebuilt 3 of my machines, working on 4 and have 2 that i have yet to even plug in and see what they do. i definately would not keep using it as it is. i have heard other members here tell of agitate arms breaking due to worn bushings. that lateral play caused by those worn spin shaft bearings cannot be good for the agitate arm and it's bushing. wish i had more positive advice for you but unfortunately these machines are hard to find and parts even harder. |
Post# 589906 , Reply# 19   4/16/2012 at 09:52 (4,386 days old) by firedome (Binghamton NY & Lake Champlain VT)   |   | |
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Post# 589913 , Reply# 20   4/16/2012 at 10:05 (4,386 days old) by firedome (Binghamton NY & Lake Champlain VT)   |   | |
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Post# 590180 , Reply# 21   4/17/2012 at 07:59 (4,385 days old) by rollermatic (cincinnati)   |   | |
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Post# 590217 , Reply# 22   4/17/2012 at 09:34 (4,385 days old) by firedome (Binghamton NY & Lake Champlain VT)   |   | |
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Post# 590230 , Reply# 23   4/17/2012 at 09:50 (4,385 days old) by Jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)   |   | |
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I just talked to him recently. Let me dig.
But for your info the bronze bearings can be pressed into the spin shaft however they are ,like all Frigidaire things very specialized, in that they have nibs sintered into them so they contact grooves mated in the agitate shaft. They are not plain round bearings. |
Post# 590326 , Reply# 24   4/17/2012 at 15:51 (4,384 days old) by PhilR (Quebec Canada)   |   | |
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Hi Jon,
I know that, I know someone who does repair Frigidaire appliances and back when there were still many of these washers in use, he had dozens of these bushings machined so he wouldn't have to replace the spin shaft... They were not perfectly fitting and he had to file them so they would fit. Since I haven't removed mine yet, can someone tell me the exact size and length these bushings are. The agitate shaft seems to be 1/2" and the spin shaft seems to be 3/4" ID but I don't know how long the bushing is... I got a few with undersized inside diameter and I'll try to have them machined inside... I ordered them flanged so I could use a part of the flange to lock it inside the spin shaft |
Post# 590342 , Reply# 25   4/17/2012 at 17:15 (4,384 days old) by Jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)   |   | |
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Phil I didn't know you could order them flanged! I don't know the depth but I would say from what I remember they are somewhere between 1.5 and 2.0 inches high.
The top of the lower bushing has to be short enough to clear the area where the groove in the agitate shaft hones out and ends flush with the shaft diameter -when the agitate shaft is at the bottom of its stroke. |
Post# 590364 , Reply# 26   4/17/2012 at 18:22 (4,384 days old) by PhilR (Quebec Canada)   |   | |
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Thanks for the information Jon. I ordered a few bushings, none of them should be an exact replacement but I'll try to figure that out once I'll get mine out... The flanged bushing with a smaller(3/8")ID couldn't be ordered that long...
I'll get a few tools tomorrow and I should then remove the agitate shaft and the worn bushing. |
Post# 590392 , Reply# 27   4/17/2012 at 19:32 (4,384 days old) by joelippard (Hickory)   |   | |
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Post# 590393 , Reply# 28   4/17/2012 at 19:37 (4,384 days old) by PhilR (Quebec Canada)   |   | |
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Post# 591120 , Reply# 29   4/20/2012 at 23:56 (4,381 days old) by PhilR (Quebec Canada)   |   | |
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Post# 591124 , Reply# 30   4/21/2012 at 00:17 (4,381 days old) by PhilR (Quebec Canada)   |   | |
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Post# 591125 , Reply# 31   4/21/2012 at 00:19 (4,381 days old) by PhilR (Quebec Canada)   |   | |
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Post# 591126 , Reply# 32   4/21/2012 at 00:20 (4,381 days old) by PhilR (Quebec Canada)   |   | |
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Post# 591127 , Reply# 33   4/21/2012 at 00:21 (4,381 days old) by PhilR (Quebec Canada)   |   | |
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Post# 591128 , Reply# 34   4/21/2012 at 00:22 (4,381 days old) by PhilR (Quebec Canada)   |   | |
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Post# 591196 , Reply# 35   4/21/2012 at 10:28 (4,381 days old) by joelippard (Hickory)   |   | |
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Post# 591212 , Reply# 36   4/21/2012 at 13:03 (4,380 days old) by pdub (Portland, Oregon)   |   | |
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Post# 591213 , Reply# 37   4/21/2012 at 13:05 (4,380 days old) by PhilR (Quebec Canada)   |   | |
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I don't think I'll do anything else than replacing this bushing as the other parts seem to be ok. Maybe I'll repaint the cabinet (but not the top) and I'll repaint the dryer at the same time. I wish I could find a site for color codes that lists other brands than PPG. Also, can someone tell me how to tell the color of this washer?
This site lists Avocado (both dark and light shades), Tahitian Green (also both dark and light shades) as well as dark green and light green... All have different codes! I have seen 1966 refrigerator ads with Tahitian Green but was it still this color in 1968? (to me, it seems Avocado!) It's funny, it seems that around 1968, cars and appliances switched to "earth tone" colors... CLICK HERE TO GO TO PhilR's LINK |
Post# 591215 , Reply# 38   4/21/2012 at 13:14 (4,380 days old) by joelippard (Hickory)   |   | |
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Frigidaire simply referred to it as "Avacado" I have several of the old Frigidaire measuring glasses that I use to measure my detergent in and one of them has the avacado color band on it.
That Rapidry spin is wonderful, I can't tell the difference between clothes spun in a Unimatic vs a Rapidry Rollermatic. |
Post# 591293 , Reply# 39   4/22/2012 at 01:18 (4,380 days old) by PhilR (Quebec Canada)   |   | |
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Thanks Joe. The only measuring glasses I have seen are the older ones with the previous colors (mayfair pink, aztec copper, snowcrest white, turquoise, sunny yellow)
Patrick, I just read your post! I was probably busy writing my previous comment when you posted yours! I hope I'll be able to have a bushing fabricated for it soon! I'll keep you informed on the progress! I'm expecting that it might be a bit expensive to have just one bushing like it fabricated... I hope not! And if it's not, I might get a few extras in case I get another washer like this! At least, the upper bushing is in good shape and the agitate shaft and the lower bushing were easy to remove. I think the hardest part will be to get a correct replacement for it! |
Post# 591377 , Reply# 40   4/22/2012 at 16:03 (4,379 days old) by firedome (Binghamton NY & Lake Champlain VT)   |   | |
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by having a small run of 5-10 made then sell them to those needing one, might take some time but in the long run pay for itself. I did that with some machined aluminum knobs for a Harmon Kardon Citation II preamp, a friend in VT with a CNC machine made them for me and I sold them to others as they were otherwise unavailable, in the end I actually made some $$ on the project. Didn't exactly make a killing, as I just sold them at a very small profit, but it paid for mine and then some.
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Post# 591746 , Reply# 41   4/24/2012 at 04:00 (4,378 days old) by PhilR (Quebec Canada)   |   | |
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I visited quite a few machine shops today... All but one refused to reproduce it... One accepted, at a relatively high price, (but I understand there is some work involved in doing that!). The unitary price would have been much cheaper if I had bought 10 but still a bit too much to justify having any extra done without knowing how good they will be... The bushing itself will cost more than what I paid for the washer, but still less than many other new replacement parts for newer washers! I should get it next week...
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Post# 591793 , Reply# 42   4/24/2012 at 11:53 (4,377 days old) by ROLLERMATIC (cincinnati)   |   | |
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and pics and info. as a fellow rollermatic owner i know exactly about how much we will be willing to spend sometimes to keep these machines running.
there are lots of old rollermatic threads on this site including mine that detail a tear down and rebuild. mine were from 2009-2010 if i remember correctly. have not worked on any of mine for several years, gonna get back to it this fall or winter i hope. good luck with yours. feel free to continue to e mail me if you have any questions. |
Post# 593164 , Reply# 43   4/30/2012 at 15:58 (4,371 days old) by PhilR (Quebec Canada)   |   | |
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Post# 593264 , Reply# 44   5/1/2012 at 00:07 (4,371 days old) by PhilR (Quebec Canada)   |   | |
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I repaired it tonight. It was a bit easier than I expected. Did a test wash and it seems to be doing fine! No leaks and no more loud noise during agitation! And I like the 1010 spin! For some reason, I often pour too much detergent when I don't measure it! A bit more detergent could have resulted in something like what happened with the very similar avocado Frigidaire washer featured in Freaky Friday!
Final (!) spin... I'll need to search for another one with the extra rinse feature! To press the bushing in the spin shaft, I just used a bolt at the end of the agitate shaft and I used it as if it was a slide hammer. It worked great. This post was last edited 05/01/2012 at 00:26 |
Post# 593332 , Reply# 45   5/1/2012 at 09:13 (4,371 days old) by joelippard (Hickory)   |   | |
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Post# 593339 , Reply# 46   5/1/2012 at 09:38 (4,371 days old) by joefuss1984 (Little Rock, AR)   |   | |
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Post# 593352 , Reply# 47   5/1/2012 at 10:20 (4,371 days old) by turquoisedude (.)   |   | |
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Post# 593359 , Reply# 48   5/1/2012 at 10:40 (4,371 days old) by PhilR (Quebec Canada)   |   | |
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Joe,
I just had to use the agitate shaft, I first tried to get it out but the lower end of the agitate shaft was tapered and wouldn't get out of the top bushing (the lower one didn't cause a problem because it was so worn!). So I didn't remove the shaft completely, just pulled it out of the lower bushing, turned it about 90° from it's original position and used it to hit on the key ways of the bad bushing and it went out of the spin shaft without any further damage to the agitate shaft or to the bushing itself. But then I had to grind the end of the agitate shaft so I could remove it from the upper bushing without damaging it. That required some patience. I used a small file and also tried with 100 grit sandpaper. I didn't want to damage the shaft so it would wear out the new bushing... The guy who reproduced the bushing at the machine shop also removed some material at the end of the agitate shaft to fit the new bushing as it was still tapered a bit at the end (and inside the grooves). Before I reinstalled the agitate shaft, I polished it with 1200 sandpaper until it felt smooth (before that, you could hear it "grind" the bushing on the rough surfaces). Joseph, I did change the speed manually during agitation as on high speed, with the amount of detergent I used, I would have been in trouble if I left it agitating fast an longer! But in the spin video, it's how it works when the speed selector is at "Normal". At first, the motor starts in low to empty the tub, then the rollers switch to another set for higher spin speed (and you can hear the solenoid clicking when this happens). After that, the motor gets in faster speed. I didn't check that closely (and I only used this washer twice since I got it!) but from what I understand, the solenoid is constantly energized when the washer operates except when it switches to the faster spin speed. Paul, When I searched for a machine shop that would do that. I expected that some would be very expensive but I didn't expect that all but one refused to do the job! So at this point, the price wasn't an issue (well, it could have been but I felt that it was no worse than replacing a 200$ electronic board in a newer washer!). The good news is, if I ever need another bushing like that, it will be a bit less expensive to fabricate as he also gave me the 3 other parts he also needed to fabricate to make this bushing... |
Post# 593395 , Reply# 49   5/1/2012 at 12:34 (4,370 days old) by CircleW (NE Cincinnati OH area)   |   | |
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Phil, I imagine the reason many shops didn't want to take on the job of making the bushing, is that you only wanted one. If you had wanted a large quantity (hundred +) of them made, you'd likely have had many bidders. |
Post# 593398 , Reply# 50   5/1/2012 at 13:01 (4,370 days old) by firedome (Binghamton NY & Lake Champlain VT)   |   | |
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as I mentioned I have a good friend with a very fancy CNC machine in his garage, about 5 miles from my cottage. His day job is Mechanical Engineer at IBM in Essex Junction VT, but by night he makes one-of-a-kind parts for Classic cars like Packard V-12 and the like, he had a '32 Cad V-12 himself. He's now into steam engines. Once the CNC is programmed, he can make 1 or 1000 parts just as easily, and if he makes 1 part, he will save the program to disc and can make another identical part very easily. He is also very reasonable price-wise because he's a hobbiest too.
Very nice work Phil... let's hope the next one won't need all that! |
Post# 593419 , Reply# 51   5/1/2012 at 14:11 (4,370 days old) by joefuss1984 (Little Rock, AR)   |   | |
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Post# 593495 , Reply# 52   5/1/2012 at 19:29 (4,370 days old) by joelippard (Hickory)   |   | |
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This is brief but here is a video of a similar machine (also a Rapidry) running in the agitate cycle CLICK HERE TO GO TO joelippard's LINK |
Post# 593584 , Reply# 54   5/2/2012 at 07:31 (4,370 days old) by Jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)   |   | |
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I am impressed no end! What a great job you did! A new bushing that works just great! And Firedome we should keep your machinist on hand at all times too!
This is a great thread! Its good that it will be archived for future reference, and whoever owned that washer as new certainly got their moneys worth out of it!!! Never seen wear that great on a rollermatic before! |
Post# 593616 , Reply# 55   5/2/2012 at 08:45 (4,370 days old) by firedome (Binghamton NY & Lake Champlain VT)   |   | |
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Post# 857240 , Reply# 56   12/18/2015 at 07:22 (3,045 days old) by Jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)   |   | |
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Post# 857370 , Reply# 57   12/19/2015 at 02:33 (3,044 days old) by kb0nes (Burnsville, MN)   |   | |
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PhilR, I just saw this thread. Neat to see you get a bushing made!
I manage a small short run and prototype machine shop. We specialize in one-off and engineering prototyping and specials. We have 3 CNC machining centers and a CNC lathe as well as a plethora of manual machines for odd jobs. Our shop would have been a "no bid" on this part also. That particular part is a VERY expensive part to make due to the two internal keys. We don't have anything in house that could do the internal details. When these parts were made originally they would have been internally broached with a custom ground broach to remove all the internal material that isn't those two keys. Broaching is a fairly quick method of forming odd internal features (like squares, hexs or internal keyways) but a custom tool must be manufactured for each part so it is expensive for prototypes. One other old scook method would be to use a shaper which strokes a single point tool through the bushing removing that material. No custom tooling is needed, but it is slow going. The modern way would likely be to wire EDM (Electrical Discharge Machining) where a thin wire is fed through the part under tension and it sparks its way to "saw" out the unwanted material. Do you have any idea how your bushings were made? Its quite nice that the shop gave you the custom fixturing or tooling too. A different shop/machinist may approach the part differently so it would be best to return to the same shop for more if ever needed. One bit of advice for anyone contracting custom machining, in most cases it makes sense to buy several parts. The setup and any custom tooling or fixtures are a big part of the cost of a one off part. Buying two or three parts will amortize those costs across more parts. So if anyone would ever use them down the road, more may be better! In any case, great job and doing what it takes to preserve history and keep the machine running. Bravo!! |
Post# 857379 , Reply# 58   12/19/2015 at 06:06 (3,044 days old) by PhilR (Quebec Canada)   |   | |
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A former Frigidaire technician had told me he had these bushings custom made by a machine shop in the 1970s but that they were evey expensive back then.
I had a hard time finding someone who wanted to do this one and he told me that making many of these would require a different process to make the unitary cost down but that it would still be quite expensive. It was an experiment for me as that bushing did cost a lot more than the washer itself (including the money I spent to get it!). And the bushing wasn't made to the exact tolerances of a new bushing. I did use this washer for a few months after and it was fine but I was wondering if the machining would have reduced the self-lubricating quality of that porous oiled bushing. |
Post# 857395 , Reply# 59   12/19/2015 at 09:23 (3,044 days old) by kb0nes (Burnsville, MN)   |   | |
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Indeed those are expensive bushings no matter what. The internal/external details make them hard to machine from stock.
It is quite likely that back in the day these bushings were a cast part. Material would just be forced into a die and out pops the bushing. Making them by the thousands that really would be the only sensible way. As for the durability of the bronze after machining, it shouldn't change. The material is consistent throughout and machining just exposes a fresh layer. Machining tolerances and surface finish are more important regarding wear and durability. I'm not too impressed with the overall appearance quality of the part they made, but then again they did make one and it is a difficult part, so kudos to them! The other consideration is that there are about 25 or so (some magically proprietary) alloys of various bronzes. Picking one with the right properties for the speed and loading of the application is important too. |
Post# 858709 , Reply# 60   12/28/2015 at 00:56 (3,035 days old) by phmorrow (Knoxville, TN)   |   | |
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Do you think that you could have that guy machine a few more bushings? I would be willing to pay whatever. Mine have a little play in them and I would like to correct the issue. |
Post# 858794 , Reply# 61   12/28/2015 at 15:37 (3,034 days old) by PhilR (Quebec Canada)   |   | |
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I don't know if the guy is still in business, he's located in a small village 1/2 an hour from where I live. He wasn't very old but I know he had to close his shop for a while as he had cancer and he had just reopened it when he made the bushing, I don't see it listed in the phone directory anymore but I do see his name in the phone directory so I could ask him.
When I had him machine the bushing, I had to bring him a few thicker bushings that I had ordered so he'd have a few spares in case he needed some. I also left him the old bushing and he agitate shaft and he spent about a week doing it. I thought he should have made it a bit tighter-fitting. I have used the machine for just a few months after as I needed room for another one I had acquired so I can't tell about the long term durability. If you could see how loose yours is, if it's much less worn than mine was, maybe you shouldn't bother to find a quick and expensive solution for it. Sometimes, fixing something like it results in more problems and once it's done, a cheaper solution comes up! |
Post# 858798 , Reply# 62   12/28/2015 at 15:54 (3,034 days old) by kb0nes (Burnsville, MN)   |   | |
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Phil,
If there is any desire to make a few of these bushings I could work up a price. We can't cut the internal features here in house but we could get a shop to wire EDM the ID details. Looks like there is a suitable 3/4" OD x 3/8" ID x 1" bushing commonly available for less then $3 a pop. I'd suspect that a half-dozen parts could be run off for a few hundred dollars. The vendor cost would be most of it. Any idea off hand what bronze material you used originally? I'd suspect it would be SAE 841 most likely. www.mcmaster.com/#6391k511/=10fuc... |