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Thread Number: 40223
Early Kenmore Automatic Washers 1949-1952 |
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Post# 595411 5/9/2012 at 22:53 (4,362 days old) by Ultramatic  (New York City) |
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| Post# 595412 , Reply# 1 5/9/2012 at 23:03 (4,362 days old) by lebron (Minnesota) | ||
lol | ||
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Post# 595416 , Reply# 2 5/9/2012 at 23:44 (4,362 days old) by whirlykenmore78 (Prior Lake MN (GMT-0500 CDT.)) |
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Reliability. | ||
| Post# 595425 , Reply# 3 5/10/2012 at 00:04 (4,362 days old) by arbilab (Ft Worth TX (Ridglea)) | ||
One thing I can tell you about all wig-wag Kenpools. The first thing to freeze in a cold snap is the pump valve. Then it bends the linkage and won't drain. The dimensions aren't critical though and the linkage can be bent back to where it works. Found that out in 1982 Oklahoma City with my friend's garaged Kenpool.
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| Post# 595432 , Reply# 4 5/10/2012 at 01:06 (4,361 days old) by stan (Napa CA) | ||
Dose that say  | ||
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Post# 595450 , Reply# 5 5/10/2012 at 06:04 (4,361 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie) |
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| Post# 595452 , Reply# 6 5/10/2012 at 06:26 (4,361 days old) by whirlaway (Hampton Virginia) | ||
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Great Machines! I still use for an everyday washer a 1955 Cyclafabric Kenmore,its tough and washes excellant.Good quality also.I have a 1951 Whirlpool also same machine. You wont be sorry to aquire one. Bobby | ||
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Post# 595459 , Reply# 7 5/10/2012 at 07:30 (4,361 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md) |
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Earlty 1950s KMs and WP washers These were and can be good machines and allthough the basic mechisium was the same on BD WP products from 1947-1987 there were quite a few changes starting around 1956 that made the 1956 and later machines much easier to keep running. Louie get in touch with me if you need more information about this machine, I would also need more information from you as to what you would want this machine to do for you to give any better more detailed answer to your question.
There is no pump valve in this era of WP built washer, although I don't know why it matters because ANY washer ever made will not work and may be damaged if you let it freeze and no matter what brand or design washer you have water still freezes at 32 degrees F so I don't think it would make any difference what brand washer you let freeze. | ||
| Post# 595490 , Reply# 8 5/10/2012 at 10:52 (4,361 days old) by golittlesport (California) | ||
rotoswirl agitator | ||
| Post# 595501 , Reply# 9 5/10/2012 at 12:08 (4,361 days old) by stan (Napa CA) | ||
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i think I | ||
| Post# 595508 , Reply# 10 5/10/2012 at 12:35 (4,361 days old) by mickeyd (Hamburg NY) | ||
In Crystal Beach, Ontario, when I was a tyke, A lady had a Laundromat where she did the laundry. One one side was a whole row of KM's like the model pictured, and they must not have had lid switches because all the machine were always open. There was a dairy next door, and every time after getting an ice-cream cone, I'd nearly press my face to her all glass building front, too young to know not to stare, and one day she let me in. Fifteen of these beauties in various stages of the cycle had me speechless. Pure bliss.
The other side of the giant wide-open structure was a row of dryers. And out of a huge rear opening was an elevated platform with a pulley clothesline that went for yards and yards to the rear of the modern property. Sheets, and sheets, and sheets. I visited many times. One of her dryers was missing a glass panel, but she used it anyway.
She had a garden hose attached to a board with a faucet on it which she used to add more water for extra-large loads. The board was always resting on one machine or another. Her extra-water mod, which so impressed my young mind, was long enough to reach any machine in the square cement structure. I visited many times. Children sometimes live in heaven on earth, ya know! | ||
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Post# 595512 , Reply# 11 5/10/2012 at 13:11 (4,361 days old) by KenmoreGuy64 (Charlotte, NC) |
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A bunch of comments to make for me:
First, I agree with Rich...I have seen a number of these, but not with a Roto-Swirl, they all had the 6-vane straight vane agitator which was shared with Whirlpool models.
The original part number for the 'pregnant' Roto-Swirl is a VERY early, five digit number (like 16211 or something), so they were clearly around in the very early days. By the mid 60s most part numbers had moved into the 95xxx range, and were moving into the six digit category shortly after. As to what commonly freezes - I don't agree, not with my experience anyway. What I have seen that freezes first is the mixing valve. Many times the underneath mechanicals escape a lot of outside freezes, but its the mixing valve that bathes the backside of the inner cabinet with a high pressure shower when you put water to a cracked and previously frozen valve. This is especially true if hoses were left attached. About the spray rinses - in even the last of the belt drives, there are a total of 8 sprays between first and final spin, four in each spin. Counting them that way would make for a total of 9 "rinses". This applies to most machines, but some BOL early models had fewer. Finally, and something I have noticed and learned very recently - in using the ultra-cool 1968 24-inch machine that Andy sent me...this machine has a two-minute drain period. I have not used a machine with this in some time. A four-minute drain, which was engineered largely to give large capacity machines time to fully empty, allows smaller machines or machines with little internal plumbing (thus they drain F A S T) time to let suds subside before the machine takes off into spin and whips up more suds. The spray rinses are as much designed to rinse the clothes as they are to flush suds build-up out of the outer tub, which is why half of more of the BD spray is directed over the basket and into the outer tub directly instead of on the clothes. Gordon | ||
| Post# 595514 , Reply# 13 5/10/2012 at 13:15 (4,361 days old) by whirlaway (Hampton Virginia) | ||
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Could it be! How about 1953 | ||
| Post# 595547 , Reply# 14 5/10/2012 at 15:57 (4,361 days old) by mickeyd (Hamburg NY) | ||
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Interesting variery the add says 7 rinses, 6 spray and one aka deep, which is 3 sprays after the wash and 3 after the rinse, matching the 7 rinses of the Whirlpools of that era. I wonder what year the move was made to 8 rinses. I think I remember a machine, a Whirlpool maybe, that sprayed 4 times after the wash but only 3 after the rinse. It would be satisfying to know the history, however inconsistent it was between the two brands
My 63 LK has a two minute drain. I lost this bet to John combo, thinking it drained for 4. It would be nice to know when the 4 minute came to pass, and how many 12 pound tubs had this feature.
Anyway, that laundromat, was woo-woo, selenoid-crunch, and spray rinse heaven....errrrr errrrrrr errrrrr psssssssssst pssssssssst. It was my first view of the roto. I noticed how different these agis were from neighbor Tom's identical Whirpool clone of this machine; his had a black Surgilator, and buzzed when done with an amazing lid pop-up. Intoxicating memories. Thanks, Louie ! | ||
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Post# 595560 , Reply# 16 5/10/2012 at 17:46 (4,361 days old) by Ultramatic (New York City) |
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Wow, thanks guys! | ||
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Post# 595564 , Reply# 17 5/10/2012 at 18:00 (4,361 days old) by Kenmore71 (Minneapolis, MN) |
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Early WP/KM spray rinses were in the 7-8 second range. In the very late 60s or early 70s there were reduced to 5 seconds. Some of this has to do with the actually "fill rate" of various machines. Maytag machines greatly reduced the flow of incoming water both through the inlet valve and the injector assembly. My Maytag A806 series 0 takes nearly 5 minutes to fill with 19 gallons of water while my 1967 Kenmore 800 fills with 18 gallons in about 3 minutes. I had always heard that the reason for the "pulsed" spray rinses was so that the pump didn't become overloaded during the spin. It was(is) also VERY helpful during a suds lock condition. I think i have suds locked the A806 once, the Kenmore...well...I'm going to claim the seal of the confessional on that one!!!
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Post# 595565 , Reply# 18 5/10/2012 at 18:02 (4,361 days old) by washerlover (The Big Island, Hawai’i) |
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| Post# 595596 , Reply# 19 5/10/2012 at 20:25 (4,361 days old) by whirlaway (Hampton Virginia) | ||
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A pump for Todd Try E-bay,didnt Sears use the same pump forever.The last one I bought came from Sears.Just get the part number off of it.I think they are the same except the machines with a lint filter.I will try to locate my book this weekend and see what it shows.I have plumbing work to do tomorrow. Bobby | ||
| Post# 595598 , Reply# 20 5/10/2012 at 20:32 (4,361 days old) by arbilab (Ft Worth TX (Ridglea)) | ||
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Post# 595615 , Reply# 21 5/10/2012 at 22:16 (4,361 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md) |
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Earlty 1950s KMs and WP washers The main drain pump in this washer was only used through the 1953 models, I have some used ones if you are interested.
Yes I have seen frozen water pumps where if someone tried to run the machine while was still frozen and it would bend the shift linkage. But this is only one of a dozen things that letting a WP BD washer freeze that can be damaged, but as Gordon mentioned the most likely and frequent part to be damaged is the inlet valve as it is already under up to 80 or more pounds of pressure, and the washer we are discussing does not even have a divert er in the pump, those did not come out till 1956. | ||
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Post# 595618 , Reply# 22 5/10/2012 at 22:40 (4,361 days old) by wayupnorth (On a lake between Bangor and Bar Harbor, Maine) |
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As I remember, correct me if I am wrong, but the drain hose csme from the bottom of the machine so gravity could get all the water out of the bottom of these older Kenmores. I remember my mothers first old Cycla-Fabric's motor died with a full tub of water as a young kid and they drained everything into buckets before hauling it out. Wouldnt that prevent it from freezing?
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| Post# 595651 , Reply# 23 5/11/2012 at 01:32 (4,360 days old) by arbilab (Ft Worth TX (Ridglea)) | ||
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Jack didn't know it was going to freeze. It probably wouldn't have except the Oklahoma wind blew the door open and the coldest air is on the floor where the pump is.
This was 1982 so the machine was most likely late 70s. There had to be a drain valve. The motor only ran forward so a flapper wouldn't work and the pump pulley ran all the time. That event, and rebelting a Whirlmore ~3 years later, were all I knew about the underside of the wigwag model. I'm no expert. | ||
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Post# 595711 , Reply# 25 5/11/2012 at 10:11 (4,360 days old) by Unimatic1140 (Minneapolis) |
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Spray Rinses
In Whirlpool and Kenmore machines the early models had 6 spray rinses and 1 deep rinse making it "7 rinses".
4 spray rinses in the first spin 1 deep rinse 2 spray rinses in the final spin. It wasn't until they changed the increment of the timer from 60 seconds to 120 seconds did they use 4 spray rinses in the final spin. This is because of the the way the timers are made with a "sub-increment cam". I think 2 spray rinses in the final spin are more than necessary to get rid of some of the scum left by the neutral drain, but it would have been much more expensive to produce a 120 second increment timer that could do this, so they simply used 4 sprain rinses in the final spin. Later Models: 4 spray rinses in the first spin 1 deep rinse 4 spray rinses in the final spin. | ||
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Post# 595832 , Reply# 26 5/11/2012 at 20:09 (4,360 days old) by Ultramatic (New York City) |
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Another one seems to have slipped through my fingers... | ||
| Post# 595856 , Reply# 27 5/11/2012 at 22:48 (4,360 days old) by toploader55 (Massachusetts Sand Bar, Cape Cod) | ||
OMG Northwesty | ||
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Post# 595994 , Reply# 28 5/12/2012 at 16:34 (4,359 days old) by pdub (Portland, Oregon) |
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Brian, | ||
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