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Thread Number: 42010
complete wiring diagram kenmore 11082172820 |
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Post# 618787 , Reply# 1 8/20/2012 at 21:25 (4,259 days old) by Kenmoreguy64  (Charlotte, NC) |
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Kenmore wiring diagram
That is the exact model number of the machine my mother has, bought new in 12/1982. I put a new timer in hers in the later 1990s, which is not unusual, so if this is the first timer service the machine has seen, you're doing great.
This was a popular model, with one of the most commonly used timers in Kenmore and maybe automatic washer history in general. The 376008 and 376011 timers (same timer functions, different vendor) were used from 1977 through 1986. These two part numbers are inter-changeable. The 376008 timer was made by CCA (Controls Corp of America), a division which went on to be bought by Singer, Eaton, Invensys and who knows who else. The 376011 timer was made by Mallory. In my experience, the Mallory timers seem to fail more often than the CCAs (specifically in developing dead spots), but they can be repaired more readily. I have rebuilt/spliced together/used for parts many Mallory timers, but the CCAs seem more likely destined for the garbage pail when they give up. Because of the popularity of machines with this timer, these are still available as factory service parts, though the old numbers now sub to 378133 and have for over 20 years. The 378133 is a CCA design also. New timers are not cheap - like $100 or more. The 378133 requires one wire splice to be performed to enable spray rinses. I have bought a number of timers on ebay a lot cheaper than new price, sometimes as low as $15 or $20. If you search 376008, 376011, or 378133, there are usually a number of offerings. They are a bit light right now, and expensive, but keep checking. Used appliance stores in your area may have some hanging around as well, often still mounted in consoles. There are dozens of other models that would have the same wiring diagram as the 82172x20. 82172x00 82172x10 82172x30 82072x00 82380x00 82372x00 to name some common ones. I probably have a service panel I could photograph that would suffice, but I wouldn't get my hopes up too much on servicing that timer. Care to tell us what its doing? Gordon | ||
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Post# 618937 , Reply# 3 8/21/2012 at 09:56 (4,259 days old) by Kenmoreguy64 (Charlotte, NC) |
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I looked at the service panels I have at home. I have a couple models that would closely approximate your machine with the same timer, however neither has the diagram on their panels either, and the stack of panels I have yielded some with diagrams still attached, but not the correct one. SORRY about that.
The symptoms you describe sound like the motor run contact has degraded, AND it sounds like the timer isn't advancing properly as well. This is what I've experienced in the past with bad CCA type timers -- they are often complicated or tempermental to repair. Having used various Kenmores like these for 40+ years, I've manually advanced the timers a few times into the wrong spot, especially in between wash and rinse, where the timer normally advances over a spot in a series of two or more clicks, and they do weird things like run the motor in drain mode and fill at the same time, etc. If your timer is not advancing properly, it may very well repeat an odd series of steps as it falls back to the previous stage or click, then temporarily forward to the next one. A one-step manual advance usually gets the machine out of this loop. I still say your timer is probably not worth "tinkering" with, as being a tinkerer as well, I've had more success with a Mallory timer in the tinkeration department vs. the CCAs. I personally like the CCAs better as they seem to last longer then the Mallorys before they start their death process (and I like their sounds better than the tin-sounding Mallorys), but if I were faced with your problem (and have been) I would use your timer for skeet shooting and not much more. I bet I have a couple 376011s that are tinkerable that you are welcome to if you'd like to try to combine those into one working unit? I have done that before with success - replace a bad switch bank with one from a timer that had a bad motor, etc. In fact, I used the original timer from my Mom's washer as the basis for this and took her bad switch bank and replaced it with one from another that had a bad cam. It has worked in a machine of mine for more than 10 years. The timers I bought on Ebay have all been good this far - the sellers are used appliance parts companies that have to pay to have a bad item replaced, etc. The incentive is there for them to send you a good timer, not a DOA. If you do get a bad one, you will get a refund or replacement. The timers on offer on ebay right now I think are too expensive, but seriously, I would keep looking there as a far better option than trying to repair the timer you have. If you want me to look in my old timer box, I will gladly do that if I can find you one that works better than what you have now. You'd just have to cover the postage. I know one of them had dead spots in Perm Press and Delicate, but the cam must have been less-worn enough in Cotton Sturdy that it worked ok there. By the way - the Cotton Sturdy cycle has a dry agitate phase toward the end of the main wash period from about 4-minutes or so to drain. Don't let that phase fool you as a timer malfunction -- the machine will agitate empty or with whatever water is in it, as it bypasses the presure switch during this phase. Gordon | ||
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Post# 618939 , Reply# 4 8/21/2012 at 10:13 (4,259 days old) by akronman (Akron/Cleveland Ohio) |
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Hey Kenmore guy I have a Whirlpool 1960 Imperial Mark XII, all pushbutton, and the timer gives me a decent amount of problems. I've had it apart 2x, cleaned many contacs and a variety of stuff, 6 loads later is acts up again.The machine is 2 speeds with a bleach solenoid and softener solenoid. I have since substituted a mid-60's dial timer from I don't know where, but it is also dead in most of the regular cycle. And it didn't work the solenoids, no leads for them. So I am stuck with either delicate wash or PermaPress only, and adding bleach and FS by hand.. So 2 questions: Can you suggest a few WP/KM model #'s from the 60's or 70's with both bleach and FS dispensers so I can do some searching for a good dial timer? OR Suggest a few timer model#s?
With the carfeul removal of the original pushbutton timer and subbing in a nearly dead -and much smaller--dial timer, I actually have a decent amount of console space for darn near any timer I've ever seen. Sorry to hijack this thread-----but you know your Kenmores for sure-- Thanks Mark
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Post# 618979 , Reply# 6 8/21/2012 at 13:28 (4,259 days old) by Kenmoreguy64 (Charlotte, NC) |
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Timer for you Mark
Mark,
The timer for your Mark XII is most likely a very custom-fit timer, that was not used in many or any other models. This is often the case in high-end models. There were similar timers used in the 1962, 63, 64 and 1965 Lady Kenmore washers, but I am nearly certain that none of those interchange with your WP. Timers in general back in the 50s and 60s were a different situation for a couple reasons than what they were by the mid 70s onward through the end of the belt-drives and into the DDs. Timers in the 1960s were often used on just one or two models. Even though a Kenmore 70 series washer had essentially the same features from the late 50s into the late 60s, they had a different timer nearly every year. Go figure, I have no idea why except the Delicate cycle in 1963 wash lengthened in was time available from max of 4 minutes to 6, then to 8. This required a new timer. It was unusual that the timer used in the 1961 Kenmore 70 was used in the the 1962s, and again in the 1963 and 1964 500. That was more an exception than a rule. So, as that applies to you, since your machine has the push-button click stop mechanism and probably the most feature-filled timer of the time, the best thing to do is to start by looking for timers of the same part number as your original, OR by what your machine model number would call for. I do have a WP parts catalog from 1992 that has a sub-chart for all the original "standard frame" timers and what their current replacement part numbers would be if they were still availalbe in 1992. A standard frame timer is a timer with leads all over, which are connected one at a time and usually (hopefully) color-coded for the wire color that gets plugged up to it. Beginning in the late 1960s and with gusto in the early 1970s, quick disconnect timers debuted that have a wiring harness terminal block (or two), where the whole timer is plugged in with one or two harness block(s). Machines that use these, when coupled with the later modular consoles, can receive a timer change in as few as 5 or 10 minutes where the most time consuming steps are to dismount and re-mount the console and console cover! There are a couple sellers on ebay that have large piles of old FSP and MTS timers that may just apply to your machine. BUT, that said, it is much more difficult to keep up with the myriad of timers from the 60s than it is the handful that were used in BDs in their last 10 years or so. In 1974 Kenmore debuted a timer that was used in potentially half or maytbe 40% of their output for the next 12 years. The timer above that is discussed in this thread makes up maybe another 30 or 40% of use, and another couple timers comprise the rest. When you're only talking about a handful of timers in a decade, its easy to be familiar with them. Same for WP's washers, which all had similar timers, but with a few custom changes to cycle sequences to fill WP model needs. Have you checked with Midwest Timer Service or another rebuilder to see if your original timer can be sent off for rebuilding? With as much work as you put into that machine, it would probably be well worth looking into if we can't find you an original or a proper substitution timer. Feel free to e-mail me here if you want to work on this futher, so we don't clutter our new member's thread. Gordon | ||
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Post# 618983 , Reply# 7 8/21/2012 at 13:48 (4,259 days old) by Kenmoreguy64 (Charlotte, NC) |
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Wandd-Collector
Wow - VERY cool that you found four machines for $40 -- I didn't need to know that though, LOL, as I will probably find myself going to a similar place around here. I am REALLY glad you got your service panel schematic - I was going to have to either disturb Mom's or get one of mine from storage and I didn't want to do that, to be honest.
Good luck with your repairs, I think these machines are very much worth a little project expedition, etc., but you probably realized that from my posts... My problem would be that if I brought home 4 more machines, I'd have 5 to repair, not one and a big source of parts! I have very fond memories of these machines, really, belt-drives in general, but I was very familiar with them from the mid 70s on, and paid close attention when my Mom bought one in 1981 (which we later cancelled when we fixed the old machine), and again when we bought the model you have almost two years later, and when I bought mine in 1986. It is a bit disheartening to realize that so many of these are now going en masse to the metal recyclers, but they are nearly 30-year old equipment and most consumers do not follow my fervor for them. If you would like any of my core timers, or any other help, feel free to ask any time. Gordon | ||
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Post# 620401 , Reply# 9 8/26/2012 at 15:36 (4,253 days old) by goatfarmer (South Bend, home of Champions) |
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Post# 620632 , Reply# 10 8/27/2012 at 13:31 (4,253 days old) by Kenmoreguy64 (Charlotte, NC) |
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Interesting story
Great story indeed.
I am glad that my parents didn't think the same way as the owner of the '92s does, because if they had, our 1974 Kenmore would have been cast out in 1981 and I'd have never had the chance to work on the machine, and call it my first automatic washer save. Mom had the replacement bought, and scheduled for delivery. I talked them into buying the replacement basket drive (at only 7 years old this is kinda sad but apparently there was a problem with premature basket drive failures in this generation machine), which Sears told us could be bought for near wholesale, we could return it if the repair failed, OR they would finish the install job on a disassembled washer and save us labor. How could we go wrong I figured, and the rest is history. We saved the '74, I was elated, Mom cancelled the replacement (the salesman was NOT elated), and that machine lived on with us for two more years before I sold it to friends who had it at least 15 more years. But, you've got a cool story there Wandd-Collector. I guess the owner's loss is your gain! As to the Kenmores, in my experience, which is somewhat extensive in this generation of machine, it is a bit unusual to have five 1980s machines and all still have theie original timers, essentially 30 years later. It doesn't seem unusual at all for the original motor to last the life of the machine, but the original timer is often replaced by now. I would stop before I said these timers are a weak spot, because they usually fail after the machine has provided its intended lifetime of service (which I think was 12-15 years or so?) but they are not the most durable part of the machine either. When I come across machines of this era now, I'd estimate that half of them have replacement timers in them. Some you call tell just by their sound and feel. I'd love to see some pictures of the machines you got for $40 some day! The timers could be all that is wrong with all of them. Good luck with the '92s! Gordon | ||
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Post# 620633 , Reply# 11 8/27/2012 at 13:33 (4,253 days old) by Kenmoreguy64 (Charlotte, NC) |
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This post has been removed by the member who posted it. | ||
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