Thread Number: 42248
Does this look like a KDS-18?
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Post# 621741   9/1/2012 at 10:08 (4,246 days old) by JenD (Michigan )        

This is the only picture I have at the moment.






Post# 621745 , Reply# 1   9/1/2012 at 10:56 (4,246 days old) by Tomturbomatic (Beltsville, MD)        
Lucky you!

It looks like one.

Post# 621747 , Reply# 2   9/1/2012 at 11:14 (4,246 days old) by JenD (Michigan )        

I am waiting for the hubby to get home with the truck so I can go pick this beauty up. They said it still worked when they took it out.

I am paying $10 for it.


Post# 621757 , Reply# 3   9/1/2012 at 12:24 (4,246 days old) by whirlykenmore78 (Prior Lake MN (GMT-0500 CDT.))        
Yep

whirlykenmore78's profile picture
That's exactly what it is.

Post# 621762 , Reply# 4   9/1/2012 at 12:34 (4,246 days old) by appnut (TX)        

appnut's profile picture

Wow, a KDS18 with black panel front.  Lucky you and for only $10.  Wonder what it lopoks like inside.  That's what I would need for it to match my kitchen, black panel fronts. 


Post# 621767 , Reply# 5   9/1/2012 at 12:48 (4,246 days old) by rp2813 (Sannazay)        

rp2813's profile picture

Often described as the best dishwasher Hobart/KA ever produced.  Three wash levels with an extra spray from the ceiling too keep any pesky yiblets off the cup bottoms.

 

If you decide to install this one, don't jump to the conclusion that it doesn't work when you cycle it up for the first time.  It will just sit and do nothing while it heats the water, then start when the water reaches the right temperature.

 

Don't be intimidated by all the buttons.  Just like on your KDB21, you can select the "normal" cycle and be on your way, but for those tough or specialized jobs, you'll have other options.

 

A steal at $10.  I hope the interior is decent.  Give the 4-way Hydrosweep spray arm at the bottom a spin by hand and see what it does.  If it doesn't spin smoothly, you may be looking at repairs sooner rather than later.

 

 


Post# 621771 , Reply# 6   9/1/2012 at 13:00 (4,246 days old) by appnut (TX)        
It will just sit and do nothing while it heats the water

appnut's profile picture

Ralph, the 18 series didn't heat any water prior to the final sani-rinse just like the previous 15, 16, and 17 series.  The 19 series Energy Saver IV was the firs KA to heat water several times during the cycle.  Since I have to keep my eloectric water heater temp lower to save expense, an 18 with automatic water heating would be perfect--evgen more so if, as Tomturbomatic has stated NUMEROUIS times, if KA had kept the water circulating while it delayed to heat the water, it would have even better washability.  Now to somewhat contradict what I've posted, the Soak & Scrub cycle did heat the water durinmg that cycle.  Based upon the service manual or user guide, that cycle was about 40 minutes longerr than the 73 minute Normal cycle.  The 18 seies finally lengthened the main wash phase severAL minutes more than the 9 minutes on the 16 and 17 series Superbas.  Even as a teenasger I was concocting BobLoads that my mom's friends KAs didn't fully clean that my more modern dishwashers have managed to de beautifully.  See what opportunities Hobart missed by not hiring me as a consultant back then.  Just think of what even more of a K.A. dishwasher a KA would have been lol.


Post# 621773 , Reply# 7   9/1/2012 at 13:04 (4,246 days old) by JenD (Michigan )        

Hubby just got home with this dirty little thing. A good scrub shall have her sparkling though.

I LOVE my KDB21 don't get me wrong, but I just couldn't let this one slip away for $10.

Arm spins well but I think it needs the nut on the top tightened since there seems to be quite a bit of play.



Post# 621775 , Reply# 8   9/1/2012 at 13:05 (4,246 days old) by JenD (Michigan )        

Inside

Post# 621776 , Reply# 9   9/1/2012 at 13:06 (4,246 days old) by JenD (Michigan )        

Top

Post# 621778 , Reply# 10   9/1/2012 at 13:10 (4,246 days old) by appnut (TX)        
Arm spins well but .. with play

appnut's profile picture

Are you referring to the 4-way hydrosweep arm at the bottom of the tub?  If so, that oculd mean the wash-arm support has been worn down and will significantly reduce cleaning performance.  we'll have to cross that bridge when approached then.


Post# 621779 , Reply# 11   9/1/2012 at 13:15 (4,246 days old) by JenD (Michigan )        
4-way arm sweep

Yeah it felt a little loose but we just got it in the house so I will be able to really look now.

Post# 621780 , Reply# 12   9/1/2012 at 13:15 (4,246 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)        

dadoes's profile picture
 
There is no hold-down nut on the lower arm.  It simply sits atop the support and can be lifted right off ... assuming it isn't worn to the point of being stuck.


Post# 621841 , Reply# 13   9/1/2012 at 17:20 (4,246 days old) by JenD (Michigan )        

The motor shaft is sheared off. Oh well have to start a collection some how LOL

Post# 621845 , Reply# 14   9/1/2012 at 17:58 (4,246 days old) by washer111 ()        
Oh No!

Poor KA! And poor you! You must be devastated with that result! 

 

A sheared motor shaft: Does that mean its snapped? I suppose one of the KA experts will be along quite shortly to help you with your plight. But I'm sure it can be economically repaired: Its a KitchenAid! And will last forever afterwards.

 

You should still be able to test the timer's operation, even without the motor.

 

Appnut:

I was always under the impression that the 18 series and above heated the water to a set point. In the "Secrets of the Inner Circle" booklet I was e-mailed, I think the heater was running during main-wash, but not the "full" heat that required the motor to shut off. The heating element apparently triggered the Main-wash detergent cup to open, the motor doing the "PreWash" cup. 

 

Correct me if I'm wrong though, since I am known to make mistakes, from time to time. 


Post# 621852 , Reply# 15   9/1/2012 at 18:20 (4,246 days old) by qsd-dan (West)        
The motor shaft is sheared off.

qsd-dan's profile picture
Are you sure it's the motor shaft and NOT the upper support shaft the wash arm rides on? The upper support shaft can shear the pin that holds the shaft in place.

A pic will help.


Post# 621861 , Reply# 16   9/1/2012 at 18:36 (4,246 days old) by JenD (Michigan )        
Hmm

Ok let me go take a pic...maybe there is hope :-)

Post# 621867 , Reply# 17   9/1/2012 at 18:43 (4,246 days old) by Jend (Michigan )        

I hope you can see it.

Post# 621868 , Reply# 18   9/1/2012 at 18:44 (4,246 days old) by Jend (Michigan )        

When we took the arm off this was the mess

Post# 621869 , Reply# 19   9/1/2012 at 18:58 (4,246 days old) by qsd-dan (West)        

qsd-dan's profile picture

NOT the motor shaft, that's the upper support shaft.

A new upper support can be had. I recently bought and sent one out to a member from Trinidad and Tobago for his KDS-19. They're getting a little tricky to find, but not impossible. Part# is 4162724.

 

It looks like the shaft was wearing into the Phillips head screw of the wash impeller. You may need to change that out too. I'm seeing upper support parts inside the wash arm, lol. Hopefully the wash arm is still good.


I LOVE my KDB21 don't get me wrong, but I just couldn't let this one slip away for $10.

You'll LOVE this one a hell of a lot more! Guaranteed!!

I'm very surprised it still retains the original upper constant rinse arm. Those are extremely fragile and usually broke a few years after the machine was new. Someone took very good care of it and was incredibly careful loading the upper rack. The newer designed constant rinse is part # 4162658, just for future records.


Post# 621870 , Reply# 20   9/1/2012 at 19:12 (4,246 days old) by qsd-dan (West)        

qsd-dan's profile picture

Here's a place that claims to have one in stock. Keep looking, you may find one that's cheaper.



CLICK HERE TO GO TO qsd-dan's LINK

Post# 621875 , Reply# 21   9/1/2012 at 19:37 (4,246 days old) by danemodsandy (The Bramford, Apt. 7-E)        
Jen:

danemodsandy's profile picture
Raise your right hand and solemnly swear:

"I will never discard a vintage KitchenAid dishwasher until it has been pronounced dead by the most knowledgeable people on AW.org.

I will never question a vintage KitchenAid dishwasher's ability to rise from the dead.

I will never accept the word of Internet appliance parts companies - or Sears Parts - that a vintage KitchenAid part is no longer available.

I will never doubt the simplicity, longevity or reliability of any vintage KitchenAid dishwasher.

I will never commit the infidelity of casting covetous glances at new dishwashers of any brand, be they swathed in stainless steel and capable of eighty-four cycle options, for they are the work of the Devil.

I will honor my vintage KitchenAid dishwasher unto death and even after death, when I will offer its remaining good parts to the membership of AW.org.

So help me Hobart."



Post# 621876 , Reply# 22   9/1/2012 at 19:41 (4,246 days old) by appnut (TX)        
der the impression that the 18 series and above heated the w

appnut's profile picture

Let me clarify here since you are spliktting hair.  First, KitchenAid dishwashers would have the the "lesser" heating element (I don't know the official name of it) run to maintain and slightly heat the water during  water circulation (wasshing and rinsing) phases.  This is NOT automatic water heating it's simply maintaining water temperature and slightly raising it.  On Superbas up through the 18 series, only the SaniCycle had the final rinse whereby the machine shut off water circulatoin so all heating element maximum watts could be applied to raise the water tempererature to 18 degrees.  BUT beginning with teh 198 Series, the machine paused (depending upon cycle selected) 2 to 3 times (if not more) to heat the water to a specified thermostatic hold target.  With the 19 series through teh 23 series, one was able to lower their water heater to 120 degrees and still have the dishwasher heat the water to 140 degrees.  Prior to the 19 series, to get very clean dishes and cookare taht was heavily soiled, incoming water ha t be a minimum of 140 degrees.  Thus for the 19 seris and above, true automatic water heating.


Post# 621878 , Reply# 23   9/1/2012 at 19:51 (4,246 days old) by JenD (Michigan )        
Thanks

Gosh I really appreciate you helping dummy me. My hubby got a new position and is never around so I have had to take on more and its a whole new world LOL I am not too mechanically inclined as you can see. I took the old (6 yr old) DW out and installed the KDB21 and thats it. HAHA



Post# 621885 , Reply# 24   9/1/2012 at 20:06 (4,246 days old) by danemodsandy (The Bramford, Apt. 7-E)        
Ahem!

danemodsandy's profile picture
"I took the old (6 yr old) DW out and installed the KDB21 and thats it."

If you can do that, you are so far ahead of most people it is not even funny.


Post# 621886 , Reply# 25   9/1/2012 at 20:12 (4,246 days old) by qsd-dan (West)        
Gosh I really appreciate you helping dummy me.

qsd-dan's profile picture

Glad to help, but believe me, you're no dummy. Not only have you found our little side of crazy here on the internet, but you quickly nabbed a highly coveted dishwasher that some have spent years to get in their hands.

 

As far as KA knowledge goes, I'm a complete retard compared to Stevet.....aka The Hobart Master Extraordinaire.


Post# 621887 , Reply# 26   9/1/2012 at 20:14 (4,246 days old) by qsd-dan (West)        
If you can do that, you are so far ahead of most people it i

qsd-dan's profile picture

A big X2 on that!


Post# 621888 , Reply# 27   9/1/2012 at 20:19 (4,246 days old) by JenD (Michigan )        

LMAO I was thinking to myself while in the shower that I have achieved a record with fastest upgrade!



Post# 621889 , Reply# 28   9/1/2012 at 20:30 (4,246 days old) by JenD (Michigan )        

Happen to have a link to a parts manual or a diagram so I can understand the assembly on how mine is broken. I am such a visual learner :)

Post# 621892 , Reply# 29   9/1/2012 at 20:41 (4,246 days old) by JenD (Michigan )        
I do solemly swear

Raise your right hand and solemnly swear:

"I will never discard a vintage KitchenAid dishwasher until it has been pronounced dead by the most knowledgeable people on AW.org.

I will never question a vintage KitchenAid dishwasher's ability to rise from the dead.

I will never accept the word of Internet appliance parts companies - or Sears Parts - that a vintage KitchenAid part is no longer available.

I will never doubt the simplicity, longevity or reliability of any vintage KitchenAid dishwasher.

I will never commit the infidelity of casting covetous glances at new dishwashers of any brand, be they swathed in stainless steel and capable of eighty-four cycle options, for they are the work of the Devil.

I will honor my vintage KitchenAid dishwasher unto death and even after death, when I will offer its remaining good parts to the membership of AW.org.

So help me Hobart."

*I spit on all new/newer DW.
*I will promise to look upon them as the true devil spawn they are.
*I will dance of praise as my 6 year old KA DW is toted off to the scrap yard.
*Said 6 yr old KA DW will earn enough money at the scrap yard to pay for my KDS18 and I shall forever hold that near and dear. It was the only thing it EVER did well.
*Upon any death I hear by promise to part every possible part to prolong many years of life to other KA models.
*I appreciate the knowledge of all the experts. It really shows your passion.


Post# 621894 , Reply# 30   9/1/2012 at 20:58 (4,246 days old) by washer111 ()        
@appnut

Ok, thanks for clarifying that. Just for that, I think I'll go back and read my printed copy again :) (I printed it... So help me)


Post# 621900 , Reply# 31   9/1/2012 at 21:23 (4,246 days old) by stevet (West Melbourne, FL)        
Welcome to the world of Real Kitchenaid dishwashers

Jen, now you will become hooked by the allure of one of the best machines Hobart ever made. The 18 series took Kitchenaid dishwashers out of the dark ages of single washarm washers to something that allowed us to truly load as we liked yet those of us who grew up with or grew into the one armed wonders surely know how well they could clean too, if loaded properly.

The wash arm suport for your machine is probably the only thing wrong with your machine. Don't worry about that phillips head screw right now. You could always get it out if needed with a vise grips.

I will venture to guess that the previous owner took a hammer to the wash arm to remove it for whatever reason and broke the whole thing. If you replace the upper housing, you can probably still use the original wash arm and be set.

If not, and if you cannot find any more new in box support assemblies, there are many of us on here who have many spare ones.I even have a new wash arm in the box and quite a few used ones.
I have posted pictures of my 18 with the upgraded Hobart arm used in current machines which would probably last 100 years but they are very costly and I bought this set up way back in the early 90's when they first came out and were much less expensive.This will fit the 18,19 and 20 series machines too.

You would have to truly be a very devoted owner to upgrade to this kit at the price it will set you back.

But anyway, get the support fixed and then your next project will be to install the upper rack from the 21B into the 18 so you can take advantage of the larger upper washarm to get the wares in the corners cleaner than your 18 arm ever did.
This will require removing the machine or doing the work prior to installing it.

Let at least me know if you want to do that and we can work on it over the phone if you like.

Good luck with the new machine and I think we all know you will let us know how it progresses.


Post# 621905 , Reply# 32   9/1/2012 at 21:28 (4,246 days old) by stevet (West Melbourne, FL)        
6yr old KA???

Jen, what was wrong with your Tall Tub unit? Maybe it will pay to fix it anyway and use it as a spare? I have a Kenwhirl Tall tub that is great as a spare set up in my garage and being able to remove the top rack and get all the meager water pressure out of the lower arm lets me wash tall items like stock pots and barbecue pans and grates and such without a problem. Once again, you have to have the adjustable upper rack with the manifold that has the rubber stoppers that close off the openings where the upper rack wash arm would connect. That makes all the water come thru the bottom arm and the constant rinse up top.

Post# 621912 , Reply# 33   9/1/2012 at 21:37 (4,246 days old) by JenD (Michigan )        

Oh where do I begin with the TT unit. It never cleaned very well, I always rinsed the dishes but that didn't matter, the upper rack broke, the door wont close. It is going to the scrap yard and I will dance and wave that sucker goodbye.

Ok so on to the good stuff....

I have found broken glass down in the bottom of the DW. How does the wash arm support assemble? I am a little confused with it at the moment and all the pictures online are snap shots from above. I can't find a side shot :(

I really can't complain at the cost of repairs since it only cost me $10. Its VERY clean on the outside, clean on the inside, mold stains on the rubber around the door, need to look into replacing the rubber lip under the door since its ripped, the rinse agent circles have some issues. The one looks like a metal mesh was there but its ripped. I'll have to post a picture of it tomorrow. No flash on the phone so pics come out dark.


Post# 621915 , Reply# 34   9/1/2012 at 21:51 (4,246 days old) by qsd-dan (West)        
The master has spoketh....

qsd-dan's profile picture
Hey Steve, do you have the part#'s handy for upgraded commercial wash arm kit (wash arm/support/strainer)? I found a Hobart distributor 3.4 miles from my house. I'll have to pay them a visit about these parts as well as a 435102 seal and impeller kit.


Post# 621916 , Reply# 35   9/1/2012 at 21:52 (4,246 days old) by stevet (West Melbourne, FL)        
Parts breakdown

On the way.. will scan it and send it to via email tomorrow. You do know that just about every part for this machine as well as the 21 are no longer available so you may have to make do with what you have or what you can carry over from the 21. Whatever you do, don't toss the 21 tank, or pump. The pump will come in handy one day.
As far as concerns the rinse dispenser, the metal mesh is no big deal just yet. What you need to do is determine if it works at all. It may leak all its contents when filled so let's get the machine going first. That was the last model that used the double hole design for the rinse aid with a solenoid that opened and closed on command from the timer. later machines had a single opening in the door and used a bi-metal spring that moved a plunger that dispensed a small amount of jet dry to final rinse water.

It would not surprise me if something is wrong with it since they had the basket type in the pictures.


Post# 621917 , Reply# 36   9/1/2012 at 21:59 (4,246 days old) by stevet (West Melbourne, FL)        
Black Panels???

Bob, do you need a set of panels or just the inserts? I should have some in the attic yet. Let me know
Steve


Post# 621932 , Reply# 37   9/1/2012 at 23:31 (4,246 days old) by washer111 ()        
Shocking Revelation!

I've just been looking at the User-Guide for the KDS-20 dishwasher (from the KA website), and found the following:

 

The Soak 'n' Scrub/Sani/Heavy Wash cycles run as long as our DishDrawer, when you shut the machine off for flash drying (Oh my!). 

The Light-Wash option is 69 minutes - our Delicates cycle i 62 w/o drying (although there isn't much performance). Our actual "Fast/Light" cycle is 49 minutes.

 

Our performance is pretty decent! I am shocked by what I read...

 

None the less though, I'm sure the KA will outperform the DD on the worst loads, although we've gotten some burnt on stuff off casseroles with just the Normal cycle (84mins w/o drying) - and one of our casseroles is coming cleaner every time. 

 

It is surprising though to learn how some machine's cycles are still equivalent - although if you go and "Flash-Dry," your cycles will probably be 30mins or so shorter... However, those times are with 140F incoming water, if you use 120F (recommended), then the cycle may be extended by 30mins, if it takes 15 mins to heat the water from 120-150 every time (with two heating stages)

 

 


Post# 621934 , Reply# 38   9/1/2012 at 23:48 (4,246 days old) by toploader55 (Massachusetts Sand Bar, Cape Cod)        
Amazing...

toploader55's profile picture
Your machine has the Original Constant Rinse.

Mostly all of them are sheared off due to loading things in the center of the upper rack and then shove the rack in only to snap the sprayer head off.

You'll love the KDS 18.


Post# 621937 , Reply# 39   9/2/2012 at 00:05 (4,246 days old) by JenD (Michigan )        

Thanks everyone:-) All this week I found a KDP-18 (someone got to it before me $25), the KDB-21B that I paid $45 very clean, and now the KDS-18 for $10. I told hubby I needed a part and his response "wait a day or so and you'll find another one" LMAO. He is quite pleased with everything.

Post# 621939 , Reply# 40   9/2/2012 at 01:37 (4,245 days old) by whirlykenmore78 (Prior Lake MN (GMT-0500 CDT.))        
An addition to the KitchenAid Oath

whirlykenmore78's profile picture
Thou shalt not covet any modern Dishwasher unless it is a Hobart or KA using some aspect of the Hobart design or be damned to TT Frigidaires so help you Hobart.
WK78


Post# 621941 , Reply# 41   9/2/2012 at 01:43 (4,245 days old) by whirlykenmore78 (Prior Lake MN (GMT-0500 CDT.))        
One more

whirlykenmore78's profile picture
Hobart is the Lord Thy Dishwasher thou shalt have no other DW than Hobart. :)

Post# 621946 , Reply# 42   9/2/2012 at 02:02 (4,245 days old) by redcarpetdrew (Fairfield, CA)        

redcarpetdrew's profile picture
Wow! She finds nice KitchenAids, installs them and is not afraid to tear into them... Do you have any sisters??? LOL!!!

The experts around here will have that 18 up and running in no time!

RCD


Post# 622339 , Reply# 43   9/3/2012 at 14:49 (4,244 days old) by recyclewasher ()        
KDS-19 part to Trinidad

Yes JenD,
this is the NOS part that qsd-dan sent for my KDS-19 at a 1980's price too!
it did a round trip in the USA from New York to California where Dan confirmed it was what I needed then re-shipped to Trinidad via Florida.
you can just see the cardboard box 'dust' on the top support half.
Just some of the help you get when you join AW.org!!!
Many thanks qsd-dan


Post# 622857 , Reply# 44   9/5/2012 at 19:57 (4,242 days old) by JenD (Michigan )        

I will order the part in a few weeks. I have to have surgery next week so that will put me out of commission for about a month. I "might" let me hubby install the part..haven't decided LOL



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