Thread Number: 42978
Here We Go Again Folks! Miele Needs New Brushes |
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Post# 632372   10/17/2012 at 17:12 (4,179 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)   |   | |
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Or at least that is what Miele USA tech support is saying.
Whilst doing some washing the other day noticed the machine was making a rather interesting whine noise during spinning. At first one thought "Oh no, it's the bearings", but a few quick test of the tub (spun around empty, gently pushed about up and down), show it's as tight as ever and no strange grinding or other sounds. A long listen whilst the machine is spinning indicates to us the sound is coming from the motor area, so contacted Miele. After years of telling one my unit (1070) had a brushless motor they are now saying it does and they need to be replaced. However as per usual they cannot be sure without a callout nor would they say what are general signs motor brushes are worn or gone. It never rains but pours! *LOL* |
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Post# 632483 , Reply# 2   10/18/2012 at 02:02 (4,179 days old) by mieleforever (SOUTH AFRICA)   |   | |
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Hi Launderess, would like to know how old your washer is? We have a Miele 5740 which is still spring chicken but we are really impressed thus far. Could it perhaps be a driving belt? Hope you can resolve the issue. regards |
Post# 632486 , Reply# 3   10/18/2012 at 02:05 (4,179 days old) by fido ()   |   | |
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Sounds more like motor bearings to me. Noisy motor bearings will usually work for years before they actually fail. |
Post# 632656 , Reply# 4   10/18/2012 at 18:24 (4,178 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)   |   | |
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Contacted Miele this morning to make arrangements for servicing and got one of the "old school" techs who knew older machines including mine inside and out.
After describing the sounds and circumstances when it occurs was advised that no, it wasn't the brushes (if that were the case the machine simply wouldn't spin period) causing the "noise". Started the machine up and allowed it to spin and from listening tech further stated it simply was the sound of a "normal" older machine. Upshot is no service call at this time even though the brushes in theory should have been replaced by now. Tech's advice was "if it ain't broke fix it", thus calling out a tech just to change brushes that aren't yet gone isn't worth the money. One thing that has me worried is the motor bearings, but tech didn't think that was it either and in such a case if they were going that means a new motor. All and all will keep my eyes peeled for a newer model Miele or SQ at a good price to purchase as a "daily driver" to perhaps take the work load of the 1070. Would mean getting shot of perhaps the Whirlpool portable to make space, but we'll light that firecracker when we come to it. Thanks for the advice gang. |
Post# 632781 , Reply# 7   10/19/2012 at 02:32 (4,178 days old) by ozzie908 (Lincoln UK)   |   | |
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Had a Miele washer about 14 years ago and that needed brushes it would wash but not spin, I believe that nearly all Miele washers have a double motor a silent wash one and the spin brush one all combined in one unit hence the expense. Now IMHO you will soon notice if the spin brushes have worn you get intermittent spins that whine up in pitch then subside again after a while the carbon gives way to the spring and thats what you don't want as it then scores the commutator which has to be smoothed again or you wear brushes down in a short while. One of the easiest ways to tell if your brushes are wearing out is to look at the bottom of the machine in the dark you will notice blue sparking, you can buy replacement brushes off ebay for a fraction of the price Miele charge :)
Austin |
Post# 632783 , Reply# 8   10/19/2012 at 02:46 (4,178 days old) by arbilab (Ft Worth TX (Ridglea))   |   | |
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Post# 632818 , Reply# 12   10/19/2012 at 09:15 (4,177 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)   |   | |
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Will try to respond here to all queries generally.
Mile USA did not start putting serial numbers on washers and dryers until the 19XX series, therefore the exact age of my washer is rather unknown. We do know the 10XX series (W1065 and W1070) were the second set of units imported to USA shores after the W770 series at around the late 1980's through early 1990's. So leave us say our washer is at least twenty years old though we've only had it for about 15 or so years. The motor used for these early Miele washer is a huge cast iron job that weighs quite allot. It's actually two motors (one side for wash tumble, other for spin) and is sealed. So if the motor brushes go the entire unit must be replaced. Am sure there are those whom rebuild such motors but Miele isn't one of them. Should the motor fail under warranty it is replaced, if it is an older unit one can pay Miele to do the work (subject to parts being available), or DIY again if one has access to the proper parts and equipment do do the work. Tech told us that these huge cast iron motors probably were some of if the not the best Miele made. By the 19XX series Miele went to the smaller "gray" units most are familar with. MieleUSA as changed their callout costs. Now there is a flat fee just to arrive and sort out the problem, then follows an hourly rate to make repairs. Swapping out an motor on older washers is time consuming, whilst the brushes (motor) is less it's still going to take time. Techs who knew their way around these "older" units are becoming harder to come by, so the new young dogs are rather "slow" because they've rarely if ever encountered these beasts. Then there is the fact newer Miele washer are designed to be serviced totally from the front. Older units like mine are the same to an extent but getting to the motor is a tight squeeze and again not for the faint hearted. As for replacing the motor brushes oneself, probably not on. The parts aren't *that* expensive when compared to purchasing abroad (exchange rate) and shipping( again exchange rate) but doing the install is just not up one's street at the moment. Besides if Miele does the repair there is a warranty of one year on parts and labour, if one does it and something goes south, that is that. The whine isn't that loud. Certainly nothing like what one has seen of Miele and other washers on YouTube whose motor bearings have gone. It also could also all be in one's head, thus making a moutain out of mole hill. Miele will replace the motor in field, but at $1500 USD just for the part, that is half the price of a W3033. One does not know and maybe will one day bite the bullet and have Miele install a new motor,control board and timer (the three critical parts) but one's main worry would be the tub bearings. That requires the unit be sent to Miele's main campus in NJ and probably more than the machine is worth. Problem one runs into with these Miele units sold in USA is that there are parts which run on 120v thus aren't "off the shelf" ready from the EU. Miele washers and to an extent dryers run on 120v/240v (220v?) which means there are parts fed directly with 120v. Obviously EU machines have no need for 120v parts so they aren't found. Capacity wise there isn't that much difference between the 1070 and 3033. The main differences are in water usage, heating power, and of course cycles and what not. |
Post# 633037 , Reply# 15   10/20/2012 at 13:01 (4,176 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)   |   | |
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It's the motor bearings that spell doom for these huge cast iron beasts.
They cannot be taken apart and "rebuilt" in the field so to speak in order to replace or lubricate motor bearings so the only choice is to replace. A new motor runs about >$1400 USD, plus labour. Now of course if anyone wishes to take the older motor with bad bearings, open it up and repair, then put it back together suppose that could be done, but there isn't that much call for such services on Miele washers on this side of the pond. Most persons will simply listen to the tech's advice and scrap the Miele and buy new when something major such as the motor or tub bearings need to be replaced. That nice lad from Holland and his friends who rebuilds Miele's on Youtube probably could do well here in the States. *LOL* |
Post# 633080 , Reply# 17   10/20/2012 at 16:12 (4,176 days old) by ozzie908 (Lincoln UK)   |   | |
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Post# 633087 , Reply# 18   10/20/2012 at 16:41 (4,176 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)   |   | |
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Post# 633090 , Reply# 19   10/20/2012 at 16:49 (4,176 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)   |   | |
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This video features a German Miele W736 which is from the same series as my 1070 (German version 770), and while electronically controlled much of the insides are otherwise same.
When the front is opened and service panel removed you can see the internal layout of the washer. The motor is behind it's shield under the tub. CLICK HERE TO GO TO Launderess's LINK |
Post# 633282 , Reply# 20   10/21/2012 at 16:19 (4,175 days old) by ozzie908 (Lincoln UK)   |   | |
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Post# 633283 , Reply# 21   10/21/2012 at 16:22 (4,175 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)   |   | |
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Post# 633735 , Reply# 23   10/23/2012 at 14:51 (4,173 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)   |   | |
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That it's only the brushes or nothing as Miele has just informed us the motor is NLA. At nearly $2000 USD didn't think many out there would spring for the few remaining ones as of last year, but apparently one was wrong.
If the motor windings and or bearings are going there's nothing left to do but run the machine until they give up, or try and find a used but still in good condition motor. Will know more next week as scheduled a service call anyway. Did several loads of wash over the weekend the this perceived *noise* is getting to me. |
Post# 633742 , Reply# 25   10/23/2012 at 15:26 (4,173 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)   |   | |
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What exactly was it you found so offensive?
Comment was not meant to cause offence but state a simple fact. If the motor is indeed dying (and as of yet there is only my untrained ear and random comments to suggest so), then there are only a few options open. The comment from Lowegian actually echos what one has heard from freinds in Germany and the nice man from Miele who set up my appointment. After speaking at length on the matter it was determined that while worn motor brushes could be causing a "whine" noise, the likely cause is usually motor bearings starting to go. If that is indeed the case then swapping out the brushes even if they are worn will only stave off the terminal diagnosis. While one can continue using the machine if the motor bearings are *starting* to go the noise likely will only increase which is not something that will endear one to one's neighbors in a multi-family building. Suppose one could limit one's washing to daylight hours, but still. The fact the motor is now NLA from Miele also tells me to now keep an eye out for another source and grab it should it present itself. Being nearly or over a twenty year model it is safe to assume the numbers out there in decent enough shape to harvest a motor from are finite. Your suggestions about swapping out the bearings, rear pulley etc are all vaild but *not* something MieleUSA will do, that falls under rebuilding a motor and Miele's North American service does only repairs from parts in stock. Even if they take the machine to New Jersey headquarters for "rebuilding" and or to replace say rear tub bearings they are using stock parts from Germany. Now it is possible there might be an American repair appliance person familiar enough with this German built Miele motor to do the work you suggested, but I've not come across one to date. At least when Miele does the work it comes with a warranty on parts and labour. |
Post# 633748 , Reply# 26   10/23/2012 at 16:12 (4,173 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands)   |   | |
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Post# 633758 , Reply# 27   10/23/2012 at 16:51 (4,173 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)   |   | |
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Near as we can figure out the 10XX series was sold in the United States from about 1982 through 1994. The latter year would have been the end of production/import but there probably were NOS units sold until supply ran out.
Our machine though second hand is from around the 1992 to 1994 era according to those whom have been out for various service calls. They make this assumption based on dates of various internal parts and of all things the owner's manual which was printed in late 1991. Using 1992 as a "guess-timate" date makes the machine 22 years old. |
Post# 633759 , Reply# 28   10/23/2012 at 16:59 (4,173 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands)   |   | |
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I'm sorry, but that can't be true. The last year the 10xx series was manufactured was 1987. That was the year a newer series was introduced, including the W698, about which model another thread runs. Also in 1987 Miele introduced new motors with electronic controlled motor speeds. All models manufactured from then had these motors. Your machine must at least be 25 years old.
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Post# 633762 , Reply# 29   10/23/2012 at 17:09 (4,173 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)   |   | |
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As one can only go by what MieleUSA states and have to assume they do not have a reason to lie.
The first machines sold by Miele in the United States were the W770 and W765 which were replaced in the line up by the W1065 and W1070. A quick "Google Books" search shows several magazines posting consumer reviews and or adverts for the Miele 1070 from the early 1990's. The link below is from New York Magazine dated 6 May 1991 and has an advert from the now closed Bloom and Krup appliance store. They had the Miele W1070 offered at a bit over $1500 USD along with the matching dryer. CLICK HERE TO GO TO Launderess's LINK |
Post# 633766 , Reply# 30   10/23/2012 at 17:22 (4,173 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands)   |   | |
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Well, perhaps they aren't lying, but simply don't know what they are talking about. That appliance store might have sold old stock. That may be the reason they are selling for the lowest price.
In Europe the W10xx series were never sold, but is almost similar to the W700 series (above W751 and higher). These series were manufactured from 1983 - 1987 In 1987 a newer series was introduced with W6xx and W7xx models (W709-W733). Later some more models were introduced including the new Novotronic models. In 1992 even a newer series was introduced. Miele introduced a basic line W8xx and a more deluxe line W9xx. It is simply unthinkable that Miele in 1994 would still have a production line where they still would manufacture a line of machines for the American market that they didn't make anymore for the rest of the world since 1987 and that was more expensive to make than the newer models. |
Post# 633768 , Reply# 31   10/23/2012 at 17:25 (4,173 days old) by bertrum ()   |   | |
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Hi Launderess, Never seen that cast iron miele motor, worked on loads of miele washers, is it from a very old machine with a induction motor? |
Post# 633775 , Reply# 32   10/23/2012 at 17:47 (4,173 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)   |   | |
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One thousand and five hundred and twenty something United States dollars was allot of money for washing machine in 1991 and 1992. Adusted for inflation it comes to 2484.75 in 2011 money.
By contractual agreement Miele dealers then and now are not permitted to differ from the MSRP MieleUSA sets without permission. If they do and Miele finds out about it the offending dealer can be removed from the program period. The information given about various models is brought up upon request via computer. Each time one has spoken to MieleUSA's technical service, parts and or other areas including the litany of servicemen who have come to our home have all given the same production/offered for sale in the United States dates. If none of them know what they are talking about it is a remarkably well planned and executed conspiracy. Miele never sent anything after the 10XX series to the USA market, but went straight to the 19XX series, again as stated above introduced to replace the 1070/1065 around 1994. This could explain the long (to you) sales run here as there was nothing else on offer. If the concept of Miele continuing to sell and or produce the 10XX series when it's cousins long ceased production in Europe rattles your tea cup, then hang on; all Miele washers sold before the 19XX series were dual voltage. The W1070, W1065 and IIRC the W770 and W765 all could be run on either 120v or 220v power depending upon how the power cord was connected. |
Post# 633776 , Reply# 33   10/23/2012 at 17:52 (4,173 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)   |   | |
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Those cast iron behemoths are AC single phase motors. Miele switched to the more commonly seen smaller grey and sliver models starting with the 19XX series.
If one understands correctly the thing is actually two motors in one housing. One part handles the spin the other for tumbling. Though don't quote me on that bit. Strange thing is using the price quoted above for a new Miele W1070 in 1991, Miele USA was selling new motors for these machines for $1600 USD in 2012. |
Post# 633824 , Reply# 34   10/23/2012 at 21:05 (4,173 days old) by qsd-dan (West)   |   | |
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Post# 633826 , Reply# 35   10/23/2012 at 21:19 (4,173 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)   |   | |
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Am already on the prowl for a used motor to have "serviced" if need be to have on hand as a back-up. Can find lots of similar motors in Europe but this motor was designed for the United States 120v/220v common connection for Miele washers, that is until they switched totally over to 120v.
In such instances certain parts run on one current and others the other. In the case of the motor for the 1065 and 1070 it appears the motor ran off 120v, so the 220v units in Europe don't do me any good. Again may just be making up the whole thing in my mind. Repairman may come out and say the "noise" is a figment of my imagination and to leave well enough alone. *LOL* Soon as one can figure out how and where it could go, am leaning towards getting either a Miele 4842 or Speend Queen washer for the larger capacity anyway. So that should take some of the work off the smaller unit. |
Post# 634076 , Reply# 37   10/24/2012 at 22:20 (4,172 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)   |   | |
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Yes, Miele makes it's own motors or at least did for this model so it is either them or nothing. There are tons of similar motors all over Germany/Europe hanging around spare, only problem is they are 230v/50hz not 120/230/60hz for American electic grid.
Am just going to sit tight until the Miele tech takes a peep next week. Used the machine again yesterday and there most certainly is some sort of noise coming from the motor area and one should find out if is one's ears playing tricks or something more sinister. Appartently others out there love their older Miele washers as well. According to a conversation one had with Miele parts the remaining motors for this series went to customers whom shipped their units to New Jersey for motor replacement and back. At just $1600 alone for the motor one assumes after labour and shipping total costs ran nearly $3K or close. Miele has a policy of not using "open box" parts for repairs done by them. That is if a boxed part has been opened they won't install it. Therefore it can be assumed the same applies to swapping out motors. |
Post# 634266 , Reply# 41   10/25/2012 at 16:19 (4,171 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)   |   | |
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Is maddening to deal with on so many levels because of problems that come from nearly every bit of stock having to be imported from Germany. Then there is the rather proprietary nature of their sales and service.
Most any other place in the world yes you are correct, one could walk into a shop and purchase Miele spares off the shelf and be done. Here whilst Miele will sell parts to customers they may or may not let one have what one wants. For instance when asking questions about NOS for the aforementioned motor was told that even if one had wished to order one several years ago "just in case", the order may not have been taken. MieleUSA would generally want to know "why" one is ordering a part that has one of their techs advised the purchase or what. In theory the motor could be repaired (if required), but Miele USA does not rebuild nor even use such parts. If it's not NOS fergetit.If one does the work DIY then you are responsible for all and any consequences. That is understandable but say the *rebuilt* part somehow affects or damages other parts that previously were working fine. Again one is out of luck. Say there were parts either in Mexico or Canada for this unit, again you are out of luck in the USA as neither division will sell/ship to the United States. If one does manage somehow to get the parts Miele USA does not give any warranty to such things. Now considering everything came from the same place in Germany to begin with it truly boggles one's mind as to what is the problem. Will also agree there are European washing machines equal or better built than Miele (V-Zug comes to mind), but they aren't offered in North America. Even if they were our backwards electrical grid (mainly 120v/60hz domestic service) means the units won't work. Even when supplied with 208v-240v service the frequency difference may affect how the machine works and or cause damage. Finally the other problem one is finding with MieleUSA lately is often customer service isn't what it once was. In an effort to expand their customer base in the USA Miele has opened up call centers and or hired "mobile" workers across the USA. Many of these new employees have no to limited knowledge of older units and quite frankly seem to care less. |
Post# 634606 , Reply# 45   10/26/2012 at 23:00 (4,170 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)   |   | |
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Miele ceased production of the 48XX series for a number of reasons paramount being they were losing money on each sale.
Large sized units aren't hugely popular in Germany and elsewhere within the EU so that left the North American market. Then there are all the associated problems of building washers and dryers adapted to the "odd" North American power grid (120v/60hz), all of which add costs. The USD has been rather strong against the Euro for awhile now which also probably didn't help matters either. Am also going to assume Miele didn't sell nearly as many units as hoped of the 48XX series to offset the costs. Regarding Miele's committment to the North American market one feels safe in saying they are here to stay. How far Miele will go beyond a niche luxury brand is another matter. Unike Bosch and other EU appliance and even car makers Miele still refuses to build a North American plant. This means everything must be imported from Germany with all the added costs that entails. Then there will be the exchange rate to factor in as well. |
Post# 637075 , Reply# 47   11/6/2012 at 16:21 (4,159 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)   |   | |
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Miele tech shows up today and after some peeping around the inside of one's machine determines the brushes are on the "front" of the motor. To laymen such as Moi, that means they are facing the back of the washing machine which contrary to other information they cannot be replaced without removing the entire motor from the machine. Apparently due to the complexity of that task and given the age of the washer (worries over "brittle" wiring, etc...) the job was not done.
Miele tech stated that depending upon how much wash one does in the machine the current >15 year old brushes should be fine for sometime. If they do grind down and fail will light that fire cracker when it arrives. As for the noise which started the whole complaint, was told it is a normal "winding" sound and common to Miele motors. Tech didn't think changing the brushes was the cause nor would solve it. So there you are... Not sure what happens next. Tech stated would speak to his superiors and one supposes will have to wait for the results of that conversation. |
Post# 637098 , Reply# 49   11/6/2012 at 17:28 (4,159 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)   |   | |
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While the tech who set up the service call made swapping out the brushes sound like a "simple" affair, knew from previous experiences that young techs in the field today do not always like working on "older" machines.
At first the man couldn't find the brushes and thought the unit didn't have them. Then we went around the block because there isn't any sort of "opening" where one simply pops out and changes the brushes. Finally it dawned on him that the brushes were on the front of the motor, something one already knew. Have seen pictures of the motor on our machine (see above) thus depending upon which way the unit is orientated, yes the brushes are on the front. Sadly Miele designed much of their older machines to be serviced from the front which means the back of the case does not come off. What cannot be serviced from the front,top or even underneath probably requires taking out the drum and so forth. To be fair have seen vids of brushes being changed on Youtube and at least there the motors were removed. Also probably put the fear of God in the man when he muttered what would happen if the motor "failed" after being removed and reinserted and or there was othoer damage (one presumes to the "brittle" wiring, etc...), simply and kindly replied that that case would have both him and Miele, and one of them would be responsible for returning the machine to a working state. No pressure there! *LOL* |
Post# 637170 , Reply# 51   11/6/2012 at 23:40 (4,159 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)   |   | |
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Here one is trying to be proactive and keep the machine in good nick, and one is thwarted at every turn almost by Miele. Am dying to hear what exactly they are going to say in way of an explination for the refusal to do this job. This after tech/customer support on the telephone swore up and down changing the brushes and or indeed swapping out the entire motor was a job that could be done in home.
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Post# 637229 , Reply# 54   11/7/2012 at 06:59 (4,158 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)   |   | |
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Miele USA's problem is they are a niche brand here in the USA.
When one informed the Miele tech that there were "young adults" and or hobbists that could change tub/motor bearings and otherwise service older Miele and other EU made washing machines he looked at one as if one had two heads. Miele USA just does not have the breath and scope of field repairmen that one can find in EU that knows their way around older units. Am willing to bet a majority of older Miele washers scrapped because of "motor failure" merely required having their brushes changed. But depending upon the unit those older washers are a bear to change brushes on in house. Better to tell Madame her motor won't work anymore (which it won't without new brushes) and that she should by a new Miele instead. As for turning the unit on it's side: Suggested to repair tech that mayhaps it would be eaiser for him if the unit was on it's back,sideways or what not, but he wasn't having any of it. |
Post# 637237 , Reply# 55   11/7/2012 at 07:46 (4,158 days old) by bellalaundry (St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada)   |   | |
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replaced last year on my W1918. The tech used a bent dental mirror, through the front to do the job. Perhaps a 20 min job...chatting with me the whole time.
I thought that this was very clever, and went out later that week to buy one of those mirrors myself. With all the tinkering I do, I knew it come in handy! |
Post# 637238 , Reply# 56   11/7/2012 at 07:47 (4,158 days old) by bellalaundry (St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada)   |   | |
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replaced last year on my W1918. The tech used a bent dental mirror, through the front to do the job. Perhaps a 20 min job...chatting with me the whole time.
I thought that this was very clever, and went out later that week to buy one of those mirrors myself. With all the tinkering I do, I knew it come in handy! |
Post# 637469 , Reply# 57   11/8/2012 at 04:02 (4,157 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)   |   | |
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This Miele w770 is IIRC a close cousin of my w1070, thus the guts are pretty similar. Once the machine is opened you can see the mass of wires in relation to the motor which provoked such concern from our Miele repairman.
As the video progresses you can also see how easy it is to get access to the motor if the machine is laid on it's side. This allows work to be done from the bottom of the machine. Anywho will have to summon Miele back. It seems whatever poking around inside the unit was done has caused something to come lose and or is rubbing against the cabinet or whatever. Empty the drum spins fine, however under load there is a loud and horrible rattle noise. Sounds much like a car's muffler either vibrating or being dragged along the road. |
Post# 637832 , Reply# 59   11/9/2012 at 16:48 (4,156 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)   |   | |
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Miele's top man from the service division contacted us to inform they will no longer provide service for my machine. Apparently the last service technican has relayed information that the internal wiring is "old" and "brittle" and in his opinion cannot withstand anymore movement or prodding for fear of something breaking or otherwise damaged. It is felt that because of liability issues (fear Miele USA would be held responsible) if anything happened to internal wiring/parts and since said are NLA thus repair isn't possible they do not wish to be holding the bag as it were.
Several times during the conversation the words "your machine is 20 years old.." was repeated often. One assumes to make a point that it is time to move on from this unit and consider purchasing a new washer. |
Post# 637834 , Reply# 60   11/9/2012 at 16:54 (4,156 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)   |   | |
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Post# 637865 , Reply# 61   11/9/2012 at 19:06 (4,156 days old) by qsd-dan (West)   |   | |
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I have Maytags that are over 50 years old and the original wiring isn't anywhere near brittle. Well, minus the gas HOH's with their standing pilots, that I used to have....
Unless the unit is stored or used out in the elements or comes from the factory with extremely cheap wiring, there should be no problems at all with disturbing the wiring while changing the brushes. The ignorance that abounds these days is mindbogglingly! |
Post# 638306 , Reply# 64   11/11/2012 at 18:05 (4,154 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)   |   | |
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Perhaps it is time to bite the bullet and purchase a second front loader to take some of the stress of the 1070. Would love an 1918 or even another 10XX series but finding either in good condition (especially the latter) is probably nil chance at this point. Well not unless there are some sitting in a rarely used pied-a-terre somewhere that haven't seen use since 1990! *LOL*
Miele is offering a *cough* discount on a new washer but one has to see just what is on offer. Quite honestly neither the 30XX nor 48XX series thrill me, but suppose for daily use either would be fine. Am not hearing lots of great things about the 48XX series in particular. Something about the boot can or has left bits of shavings on laundry and or causing damage to textiles. Odd thing is one can find a decent supply of gently used Miele's in Canada, but MieleUSA won't touch such units with a barge pole. One *thinks* they may do repairs providing the unit isn't too old but the work carries no warranty. |
Post# 638319 , Reply# 65   11/11/2012 at 18:39 (4,154 days old) by Iowegian ()   |   | |
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@Laundress: That Miele is offering you a yet unknown discount shows that they value you as a customer. And that has some value. I doubt Whirlpool would offer you a good customer discount these days... |
Post# 638320 , Reply# 66   11/11/2012 at 18:41 (4,154 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California)   |   | |
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Frankly I think that may be a bunch of BS, I have a W1065 and the wiring is just fine. I know, since I had to work with it to replace the door lock solenoid (got a generic replacement part from Grainger, works fine). Most anything made since the 1950's has good quality vinyl insulated wiring which lasts for a very very long time. I can't say your wiring isn't brittle, which it might be if it were kept in an oven like storage container in the desert for 10 years. If it were my 1070 I'd be in there pulling the brushes and checking the motor bearings myself.
The 1918 is an excellent machine - I have one of those too. Keep your eyes peeled on Craigslist, they do pop up for reasonable prices from time to time. |
Post# 638323 , Reply# 67   11/11/2012 at 18:52 (4,154 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)   |   | |
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Or it is an attempt to shut me up once and for all! *LOL*
Thankfully one has always kept records of conversations and such a habit learned early in one's working career. Was able to tell Mr. Senior Miele Whatever His Title Is that am not the bad person here. Was able to recount chapter and verse of conflicting information supplied by Miele's own customer service department and how one wished years ago to send the washer in to be overhauled when parts including the motor were available. Considering most of those parts are now gone and the reason is persons had *their* older Miele washer sent to NJ for work proves am not the only "looney" applinace customer out there. Also reminded them that all over Europe in particular Germany there are Miele washers older than mine still in service. Difference is on that side of the pond one can find even young adults such as those who post on YouTube that can do these repairs. IMHO what is happening is MieleUSA's older service persons/techs,the ones who started out >15 years or so ago with the company are moving on and or at least no longer make field calls. When you speak with the younger/new hires in NJ, CA, Utah and the other USA call centers they have Nooooooooo idea about anything other than modern offerings. Ok, they may know about the 19XX series but that is about it. |
Post# 638326 , Reply# 68   11/11/2012 at 18:55 (4,154 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)   |   | |
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Post# 638446 , Reply# 71   11/12/2012 at 04:16 (4,153 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)   |   | |
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Post# 638457 , Reply# 72   11/12/2012 at 07:40 (4,153 days old) by gansky1 (Omaha, The Home of the TV Dinner!)   |   | |
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Brittle wiring?? How many boil washes do you do in this machine? LOL
Dan is right, the ignorance is just mind boggling - or, it's just a matter of laziness. I suspect it's a combination of both. With all of the resources on this board, I'm sure you could master most of the repair procedures very quickly and keep that machine running another 20 years. At any rate, I'm glad you have it working again and hope the rattling isn't too serious an issue. |
Post# 638500 , Reply# 73   11/12/2012 at 12:59 (4,153 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands)   |   | |
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IMHO, Miele USA is not on par with the service of Miele Germany and the Netherlands. I have never heard about brittle wiring, not even in Mieles that are much older than yours. If you don't want to work on the machine yourself I hope you can find a technician who will work on your machine without asking a fortune for it or not knowing what to do.
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Post# 638506 , Reply# 74   11/12/2012 at 13:34 (4,153 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)   |   | |
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If you Google various Miele products sold in the United States a fair number of complaints can be found, which is natural for any consumer good, however it is how Miele deals with them that seems to have a common thread.
Quite honestly MieleUSA telephone techs often treat consumers as if they don't know their own right mind. If for instance you state a washer is doing "X", they will respond "no,it cannot be doing that",or "you must be doing something wrong...". Once you presuade them to set up a service call, wait several days or weeks for the person to arrive, low and behold it turns out the consumer was correct. Miele has taken over installation of it's laundry and one also assumes other appliances in certain states (IIRC CA, AZ, and few others) because of problems with the contracted service persons. In these areas it is now called "Miele Concierge" service. From what one over heard from the tech's telephone conversation back to the main office, and also from the head man who contacted us it is not only the "brittle wiring", but something about the plastic connectors that causes them worry. Have no idea what they are talking about but am in no position to dispute what the serviceman says as one hasn't observed the internals at close range. Even if one had our reference base for that sort of thing is nil. There are at least two other MieleUSA qualified repair services for NYC. One we used previously and he told us years ago he didn't want to be bothered again with our "old" machine. Indeed the man no longer returns our telephone calls. The other is new and we haven't used nor know of them. However if the warranty on parts/service calls comes via MieleUSA might still be in the lurch as we are in their databases. For now intend on just using the washer as normal since there aren't any major or even seriously minor issues. The rattle didn't appear when Miele came back (same tech) on Saturday in response to one's complaint (had a load in the washer and of course the thing showed me up by spinning sans rattle), however later that day did a few more loads and it came back. It seems to be dependent upon load size and vibrations. Will check to make sure the washer is level and or all the screws at bottom are tight. Tech stated nothing can be "loose" inside as he only opened the unit up to examine the motor for location of brushes. If worse comes to the worse think one can manage opening the service door/front of the washer to see what the potential source of the rattle could be, however that is a very last resort. Meanwhile have found another 1070 that could be a potential source of scavenger parts, but as it is located in Canada that is probably not on. |
Post# 638585 , Reply# 75   11/12/2012 at 18:05 (4,153 days old) by toploader55 (Massachusetts Sand Bar, Cape Cod)   |   | |
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I'm having yet again a few issues with the 4842.
I called and spoke to a customer rep. and EXACTLY !!!. He told me how the machine could not in any way be acting up. Then went on to tell me that I like many other consumers do not understand the principles of Front Loading Washers. After I told him about my collection and how my Maytag 806 rinses better than the Miele even with the "Sensitive" option activated, he went off on me about I'm using too much detergent (2 tablespoons for 4 Hooded Sweatshirts and 2 pairs of Jeans) my water pressure probably is not high enough. In which I said "Well, doesn't the machine sense the water level ? Hmmmm??? So even IF the pressure was low, it should keep adding water until the sensor says enough ? I was finally so frustrated with him, I Thanked him very much for being such an Important Part of my Day. Shot off an e-mail this morning telling of my experience with this guy and expect to hear from someone soon. |
Post# 638604 , Reply# 76   11/12/2012 at 19:18 (4,153 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California)   |   | |
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I used to work in IT. I designed, built and maintained banks of file and print servers for Fortune 500 companies. I was flown around the world to do same to international sites. But I am the WORST customer when it comes to me having to call customer support about my internet connection, phone service, etc. It virtually drives me nuts when I explain the problem in detail and let them know I'm a computer professional (at least I was), and in turn get the 1st line customer service checklist routine. It's usually like pulling teeth to get the call escalated to a tech who actually knows the technology and can help. The arrogance of a washer mfg customer service rep telling someone they are doing something wrong when it's clear the fault is with the machine is astounding. I'd be writing letters, too.
At least with vintage washers that the manufacturer no longer supports, there's no need to go through that frustrating endless list of checklists, only to be given a bait-and-switch "if your machine doesn't work, you can buy a new one at inflated pricing with a discount that might bring the price down to just above what you could get retail anyway" routine. I suspect part of the problem is the disdain that some (perhaps many) Germans have for Americans. I've heard of this from enough quarters that it rings of some truth. Of course, they do have a point, a lot of we Americans are idiots, but if their attitude means they fail to support the products that we pay good money for, well, we can take our business elsewhere. Or make it ourselves. Still, the older Mieles are such cool machines it would be a shame to see one put out of service for lack of competent local repair talent. |
Post# 638621 , Reply# 77   11/12/2012 at 20:06 (4,153 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)   |   | |
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Toploader55
Am sorry to hear you are having problems with your W4842. Isn't this the new machine Miele sent to replace your other "new" machine that had busted bearings? It seems there are two camps of Miele 48XX owners; those that love them and those that would love to throw them off a cliff. *LOL* Almost pulled the trigger a few times on used or even NIB 4842 units (the latter was being sold on CL NYC by someone whom had misjudged the size and when units arrived found it wouldn't fit undercounter), but all the complaints made me think twice. For one thing the washer doesn't "fluff" at cycle end like my 1070 and most other older front loaders. Then there is the bit about the lip at the top of the rubber boot that is supposed to push laundry back into the tub. Some seem to think laundry rubbing against the thing is the cause of excessive textile wear. |
Post# 638758 , Reply# 78   11/13/2012 at 12:58 (4,152 days old) by toploader55 (Massachusetts Sand Bar, Cape Cod)   |   | |
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They did replace the machine this past July.
I am one that "Would love to throw it off a cliff." I ran the machine set up as it was from the factory. With the "Sensitive" Option activated this is suppose to add an extra rinse or two. I received through a member here from Germany the service manuel. I programmed in the Water Plus and High water levels. 2 tablespoons of Persil for Hard water and a Large Load certainly did not show any suds at all in the window during the wash. But after 3-4 rinses with deep water and the clothes still had residue, (and these are not by any means heavily soiled) I just want to get this figured out. For almost Two Thousand dollars, one would think these clothes would be taught how to do a Conga Line into the Dryer on their own !!! LOL |
Post# 638790 , Reply# 79   11/13/2012 at 15:43 (4,152 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)   |   | |
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Post# 638891 , Reply# 80   11/13/2012 at 21:00 (4,152 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)   |   | |
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In order to scope out modern offerings from Miele and other laundry appliances.
Saw the 3033 and while one couldn't open the door build quality wise from the outside it just didn't seem equal to my older unit. Asked about the discontinued 4842 and salesman said they sold out of stock eight months ago. Even the floor models were sold as well. Knowing how cramped some Mahnattan quarters are wondered who purchased such large machines. Salesman replied he sold quite a few to foreign consulates. Apparently Europeans knew the brand name and often purchased several, one for each floor so as to avoid a central laundry room. Compared to the large Samsung units on the floor was told the uber Miele was about two inches taller and deeper, that is one *BIG* washing machine. *LOL* |
Post# 639540 , Reply# 82   11/16/2012 at 22:30 (4,149 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA)   |   | |
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This thread makes me want to ebay my 3033 set and put my Speed Queens back in service. At this rate, Miele USA may be destined to close its doors in the next couple of years. Obviously, Miele hasn't much to gain by their customer base hanging on to machines that it has indeed EOL!
I would recommend keeping an eye out for a replacement machine on eBay or Craigslist. Whether it is a Miele or something else. While Continuuing to use your machine until it can run no more, then send it on its way. Malcolm |
Post# 639560 , Reply# 83   11/16/2012 at 23:27 (4,149 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)   |   | |
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Have no intention of giving up on my Miele. IMHO the 10XX and 19XX series were some of the best and last of the "great" washers that company sold on this side of the pond. Everything afterwards including the 12XX and later seem to be lacking in many ways. JMHO.
@Malcom, Am always scouring CL and so forth for a decent second Miele, or perhaps SQ washer. Am going to sooner or later cull my tiny collection so to swap out and make room for whatever comes up. Ideally want something a bit larger than the 5kg my Miele now holds. The 30XX comes in at a hair shy of 6kgs, but the uber-sized 40XX are somewhat misleading. Sure they are huge machines but Miele recommends only loading them 3/4 full. How does that work? Every front loader one has ever used including the large 50lb SQ front loader at local laundromat allows one to load it full. |
Post# 639773 , Reply# 85   11/17/2012 at 18:40 (4,148 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)   |   | |
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Unless they pull their socks up and make some changes.
Persons spending >$2000 USD for appliances don't want to be held captive to waiting one to two weeks for a service call by a Miele tech, then possibly wait even more if parts aren't in the USA and have to be sent for from Germany. All this to fix a washing machine or whatever. At least when a Whirlpool or other domestic brand goes south parts are usually easily found via Sears Parts Direct or some such. Miele also needs to drop the "attitude" some customer service/techs give when customers call in with problems. It is like the old joke about those who complain about problems with a Rolls Royce car: "Sir/Madam there is never anything *wrong* with a RR, you just don't know how to operate it properly and or appreciate it's functions". For god sakes it is a washing machine not a nuclear reactor. This post was last edited 11/17/2012 at 20:30 |
Post# 639807 , Reply# 86   11/17/2012 at 20:15 (4,148 days old) by toploader55 (Massachusetts Sand Bar, Cape Cod)   |   | |
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Post# 642970 , Reply# 88   11/30/2012 at 17:54 (4,135 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)   |   | |
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According to Miele service the rattle/knocking sound that comes during spinning is from shock absorbers going and they will have to be replaced.
At first tech seemed "ok" with this until it dawned upon him (with some promting from Moi) that on these older Miele washers the struts are in *back* of the wash tub, not the front as with the 19XX series onwards. The only way one has seen shocks replaced on these older units is via tipping the unit on it's side and working from underneath. Either way it is going to be a "two man" job and that is if even corporate MieleUSA will give the ok. |
Post# 643042 , Reply# 89   11/30/2012 at 22:19 (4,135 days old) by Jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)   |   | |
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Post# 645266 , Reply# 90   12/9/2012 at 18:55 (4,126 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)   |   | |
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However one has heard it is common with appliance customer service/dealers/makers to draw a line at some point. Even when units are covered under extended warranty or service contracts there could come a point when an offer of a new unit at a discount will be made.
Am also beginning to understand why there is so much DIY on Miele and other appliances in the UK and EU, especially older/vintage models. Showed YouTube videos from "Wiljann" (sp?) (who by the way seems to have deactivated his account/vids) and others who can take apart, rebuild and so froth Miele washers to the Miele tech when he was here last. The man had a look of amazement and "why would anyone bother?" on his face. Think one mentioned this before, but there is a small but growing chorus of complaints against Miele's high handing their customers with all their proprietary nonesense for parts, service manuals and so forth. Depending on what cycle of the moon is in and what Miele USA tech one reaches on the telephone extracting DIY assistance from them can be either a piece of piss or like childbirth. |
Post# 645337 , Reply# 91   12/10/2012 at 03:36 (4,125 days old) by chestermikeuk (Rainhill *Home of the RailwayTrials* Merseyside,UK)   |   | |
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Post# 645375 , Reply# 93   12/10/2012 at 09:35 (4,125 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands)   |   | |
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Post# 645452 , Reply# 94   12/10/2012 at 15:46 (4,125 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)   |   | |
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Post# 894449 , Reply# 96   8/18/2016 at 01:53 (2,779 days old) by Stricklybojack (South Hams Devon UK)   |   | |
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Post# 894481 , Reply# 97   8/18/2016 at 07:54 (2,778 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands)   |   | |
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Sort of reminds me to what happened with my Cuisinart. That big pond between the two continents seems to make reliable service too difficult. Parts are no longer available I was told by the Dutch customer service (and then I notice that same machine is still available on the American website albeit it the 110V version). Next time I buy stuff that may need repair in the future, I'll stick to products made on this continent. I can understand why people turn away from Miele products because of the lack of decent customer service.
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Post# 894604 , Reply# 98   8/18/2016 at 18:58 (2,778 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)   |   | |
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Then why not go for it? Long as it is in working and good condition you could get years of use before needed service, if ever.
Amount of usage along with proper care and maintenance (or lack thereof) will determine the lifespan of any washer including those made by Miele. Having said this IIRC the 1900 series washing machines (and matching dryers) have joined the 700 and 1000 series that Miele USA no longer stocks parts. That means new inventory is not coming from Europe nor will Miele order, what is here is all there is and will be. Also for some time now Miele USA no longer trains new technicians on "older" appliances. IIRC for laundry this means anything before the 1200 series. As noted in may many posts even veteran techs who know these units are starting to grumble about having to work on them. It took two grown men better part of two hours or so to refit new suspension springs on my Miele, grumbling, cursing and sweating the whole time. This being said if one is so inclined and has the skills self repair of a Miele washer or dryer isn't out of the ordinary. Members here in the group and plenty of others world-wide have done so. If Miele cannot or will not supply parts there are ways around. |
Post# 895006 , Reply# 99   8/22/2016 at 02:01 (2,775 days old) by Stricklybojack (South Hams Devon UK)   |   | |
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