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Thread Number: 44448
Videos: 2013 Frigidaire Immersion Care Washer |
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Post# 652786 1/12/2013 at 20:22 (4,120 days old) by Frigilux  (The Minnesota Prairie) |
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Load: 4 large, heavy bath towels; 4 large hand towels; one grimy bar mop
Cycle: Heavy Duty; actual cycle time is 58 minutes Options: Warm water; Normal Soil; Fabric Softener (a deep rinse); Max Spin; Max water level Detergent: powdered Tide With Bleach HE; manufacturer's suggested dose for normal load This was recorded with an iPad 2. It can only record about 49 minutes of video at a time, so the cycle is not complete. I wanted to throw one grimy item in the load to see how it would play out. I went out to the patio and took a few swipes at my grimy glass-topped table with a bar mop. At the deep rinse, you'll hear some water flowing into the fabric softener dispenser, then the trickling sound of it entering the tub. That happens several times before the agitation begins. Should you tire of watching paint dry, the wash water begins draining at 34:10; the load-balancing slow agitation at 32:00. Fill for deep rinse begins at 41:00. Check back for additional videos (a load of dress shirts; the uber-stained kitchen whites) tomorrow! I tried to transfer the video in HD, but it froze mid-process, so I began again and used standard quality. This post was last edited 01/13/2013 at 00:05 | ||
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Post# 652788 , Reply# 1 1/12/2013 at 20:33 (4,120 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie) |
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| Post# 652792 , Reply# 2 1/12/2013 at 21:06 (4,120 days old) by Westie2 () | ||
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Eugene thanks for the video Great to see and looks like it will do a good job. Wish the spin speed was greater for extract. Looks like a winner for a TL. | ||
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Post# 652794 , Reply# 3 1/12/2013 at 21:14 (4,120 days old) by gansky1 (Omaha, The Home of the TV Dinner!) |
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Post# 652795 , Reply# 4 1/12/2013 at 21:15 (4,120 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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Great Vid! | ||
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Post# 652799 , Reply# 5 1/12/2013 at 21:30 (4,120 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie) |
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CHARLES: This was the first time I used the deep rinse option, and I was hoping for a full-speed first spin; but no. The slow spin makes sense when you use the default spray rinses, as you wouldn't want to compact the clothes; that would hamper the sprays getting completely through the items in the load. But, yes, that pokey excuse for a first spin grates on me, too, LOL! The machine seems to do its job, though, so who am I to argue? | ||
| Post# 652802 , Reply# 6 1/12/2013 at 21:56 (4,120 days old) by mickeyd (Hamburg NY) | ||
You edited the first post while I was viewing, so now I know
I could not for the life of me figure out what the spray rinse noises were during the rinse fill, complete with the pipe bangs, so much like a WP/KM. No water was flowing out of the flume or the jets. What sleight of hand is Eugene up to, I wondered. So glad to know what it was.
LOOK: this is a lot more dramatic than you let on, and somewhere early on, there was a view of the grimy mop, and it was noticeably soiled. And your photo shows the proof in the pudding--spotless and no more pudding. I am impressed and thanks for filming. The long contact of the laundry with the detergent, and the near-constant movement and immersion must be the secret to the soil removal. And by the way, the jets were kind of cute. | ||
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Post# 652804 , Reply# 7 1/12/2013 at 22:09 (4,120 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie) |
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MICKEYD: I put this video up first because it has the most action/clothes movement. Wait 'til you see the load of shirts.
As for the waterfall jets, I think they should be pressurized, like the "circle of spray" or whatever it was called on my 1986 Frigidaire top-loader. That feature was a holdover from the 1-18 machines. These are so wimpy. It's akin to expecting fireworks but, instead, getting an old man riding past on a squeaking bicycle with a couple of sparklers, LOL. | ||
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Post# 652805 , Reply# 8 1/12/2013 at 22:11 (4,120 days old) by appliancelou (Lyndhurst New Jersey) |
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| Post# 652806 , Reply# 9 1/12/2013 at 22:14 (4,120 days old) by toploader1984 () | ||
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frigidaire TL thank you so much for posting the video! i know what my next machine is going to be;-) i can't wait so see her rev up to 800 rpm! | ||
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Post# 652809 , Reply# 10 1/12/2013 at 22:42 (4,120 days old) by peteski50 (New York) |
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Frigidaire! | ||
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Post# 652813 , Reply# 11 1/12/2013 at 22:46 (4,120 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie) |
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Load: 10 dress shirts
Cycle: Normal Options: Light soil; warm water; low spin speed; auto water level Detergent: powdered Tide With Bleach HE; manufacturer's suggested dose for normal load I dropped the shirts into the tub and it filled loosely to the top. You'll notice the clothes shift positions far more slowly compared to the load of bath linens. I think the impeller finds it easier to grab heavier, textured fabrics. The light soil-level selection shortened the cycle time by a whopping 12 minutes compared to normal soil. It performs a couple of 120 rpm spins at various points during agitation; something I've never seen it do, before. I'm assuming it's to aid cleaning in exchange for the shortened wash period. You'll see the machine's spray rinsing feature (the default rinsing process for all cycles) in lieu of a traditional deep rinse. Sequence: Slow, load-balancing agitation at 18:32 Wash water drains at 20:37 Rinsing procedure begins at 27.05 Final spin at 34.00 The scraping sound you hear during agitation is a shirt button in contact with the spinning tub. My dress shirts always have noticeable ring-around-the-collar, so they always receive a shot of Amway classic stain-pretreat. The right sleeve of dark blue shirt which spends the entire wash period languishing at the top of the load was covered with dust/dirt from my reaching around the top of a closet in the garage. Despite minimal movement, everything emerged clean---including the collars. This was actually the first video I made. By the second (the load of bath linens), I'd learned to angle the iPad differently to get a slightly better view of the tub. The iPad, by the way, is teetering precariously at the edge of a fully-raised music stand, which, in turn, is perched atop a cardboard box. I believe these no-budget accoutrements place me squarely in the "indie filmmaker" category, LOL. This post was last edited 01/12/2013 at 23:49 | ||
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Post# 652816 , Reply# 12 1/12/2013 at 23:04 (4,120 days old) by pdub (Portland, Oregon) |
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| Post# 652832 , Reply# 13 1/13/2013 at 01:28 (4,120 days old) by mark_wpduet (Lexington KY) | ||
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Post# 652834 , Reply# 14 1/13/2013 at 01:44 (4,120 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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If You Think About It
This washer tries to create the water movements of an agiator toploader without the beater.
Between both the tub and impeller movements currents of water are pushed through the laundry. This is done without the usual tangling and other problems associated with impeller washers because the machine is not creating the normal vortex water action. Because of this in theory washing action is almost equal throughout the tub rather than just underwater/towards the impeller/beater. Also because while there is enough water to get the job done, it is just enough so the machine can make the powerful currents required to do the cleaning. | ||
| Post# 652838 , Reply# 15 1/13/2013 at 02:24 (4,120 days old) by georgect (Fairfield, CT) | ||
Just watching the first video now.
LOVE the sounds...this machine gets down to business fast. It doesn't sound like it's straining like Whirlpool and the wash action beats LG hands down. Damn...I love how fast it scenes the load and how it stops before changing all it's steps. Now I'm a fan of this Frigidaire Top Loader, although I'm a bigger fan of the Electrolux Front Loader. | ||
| Post# 652839 , Reply# 16 1/13/2013 at 02:26 (4,120 days old) by vintagesearch () | ||
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Aaaaaand the proof is in the pudding! It's neat a little different than what's out there. I want one now! | ||
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Post# 652891 , Reply# 17 1/13/2013 at 06:18 (4,120 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie) |
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Glad you're enjoying the videos, gang!
I don't have experience with other impeller machines, and perhaps the top-rated ones at CR (by Samsung, LG, Maytag) do a better job than this one. The selling point here is that you can choose the water level manually; and I haven't had a single problem with unbalanced loads, which is a frequent complaint about impeller machines in user reviews. Using auto sensing, the machine would have used less water for the load of bath linens. The reduction of total water used comes courtesy of the spray rinse procedure, which actually does a great job. In fact, I think I prefer the multiple spray/extract rinses to a single deep rinse. The machine uses just as much water as a traditional top-loader if you manually select the MAX water level coupled with the deep rinse option. Best of both worlds: I can choose to be a bit more extravagant with the wash water by manually selecting the water level, but still save a substantial amount of the total water used by taking advantage of the spray rinsing procedure. I do feel I need to restate this: While I'm having great fun putting the Immersion Care through its paces, the list of reasons I far prefer the Frigidaire front-loader would be as long as my arm. Again, check back later today for one or two more videos; the kitchen whites---wait 'til you see the stains, LOL!---and maybe a load of jeans or sheets or something like that. | ||
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Post# 652898 , Reply# 18 1/13/2013 at 07:27 (4,120 days old) by kimball455 (Cape May, NJ) |
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| Post# 652905 , Reply# 19 1/13/2013 at 08:24 (4,120 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA) | ||
Centrifuge Wash
Unlike most of the competitors, I like that the centrifugal wash action does not coast to a stop before changing directions. Just goes ahead and reverses from high speed CW to high speed CCW! That is cool.
I also like that the machine never sits idle for any length of time. It is always in motion. I do wonder why during agitation, it seems to pause and the resume the same action. Do you think it is trying to sense something about the load? All in all, a very nice machine indeed. Is there a basket clean cycle? Malcolm | ||
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Post# 652913 , Reply# 20 1/13/2013 at 09:22 (4,120 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie) |
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MALCOLM: You'll notice that the first movement after the pause really winds up a lot counterclockwise, then thrusts in the other direction to help the items in the load shift position. There is no "Clean" cycle, probably because it uses more water in the wash cycle than most other impeller machines.
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| Post# 652942 , Reply# 21 1/13/2013 at 09:52 (4,120 days old) by georgect (Fairfield, CT) | ||
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Temps... | ||
| Post# 653009 , Reply# 22 1/13/2013 at 11:39 (4,119 days old) by golittlesport (California) | ||
Thanks for the videos!
Like you, Eugene, I am a fan of front-load machines, but this machine is very interesting. I especially like the few fast, spin-like strokes it takes with water in the tub. I bet those really surge the sudsy water through the load. Although this machine does not look to create as much movement of the clothes as other impeller machines, it still seems to do a good job of cleaning. Since previous impeller top loaders have been dinged for tangling and wear on clothing, maybe this action of moving water through clothing is better.
How much water does it use when you set the water level on "auto"? | ||
| Post# 653010 , Reply# 23 1/13/2013 at 11:41 (4,119 days old) by frontloaderfan (Merrimac valley, MA) | ||
Thoroughly enjoying the videos of your new toy! Very entertaining to watch and listen to! Like you, I think this is a nice diversion but I think I would still prefer my Frigidaire FL as a daily driver.
Correct me if I'm wrong here, but I don't see the impeller doing anything. It looks to me like the wash action comes from the tub itself, no? | ||
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Post# 653154 , Reply# 24 1/13/2013 at 18:06 (4,119 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie) |
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Here's about one-third of the very heavily-stained load of kitchen whites, shown before it went into the machine. Most of the other items had some stains, but not quite this spectacular. All the usual suspects are here: Ketchup; mustard; spaghetti sauce; barbecue sauce; Worcestershire sauce; picante sauce; A-1 steak sauce; coffee; blueberries; chocolate cake batter; chocolate frosting; Hershey's chocolate syrup; strawberry syrup (the kind for snow cones and Italian sodas, not pancakes); and finally just some plain old dirt.
This collection of horrors started Wednesday, so most of them were dried into the fabric. I started with the Presoak cycle and a full scoop of powdered Tide With Bleach HE. The cycle is about 25 minutes long. Selecting warm water and auto-sensing, it filled to the maximum level, then did some long whirls in each direction followed by a 5-minute soak. This process is repeated several more times. It drains but does not spin. The manual says to add some more detergent and continue on to the next cycle. I decided to go with the Drain & Spin cycle. I pulled the load out and looked it over; most stains were still very visible. 
This post was last edited 01/13/2013 at 22:04 | ||
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Post# 653155 , Reply# 25 1/13/2013 at 18:07 (4,119 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie) |
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I added yet another full scoop of Tide, plus one-half cup of liquid chlorine bleach and selected the Heavy Duty cycle with these options: Heavy soil, max fill, max spin speed, and an extra spray rinse. Since the iPad can only record about 49 minutes at a time, I divided the video into two parts so you can view the entire cycle. Here's part one, which shows the fill and wash agitation. This post was last edited 01/13/2013 at 18:48 | ||
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Post# 653156 , Reply# 26 1/13/2013 at 18:08 (4,119 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie) |
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Here's part two, showing the drain, five spray rinses, and the final spin. I don't think the final spin is 800 rpm; more like standard-issue 625 rpm. This post was last edited 01/13/2013 at 18:45 | ||
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Post# 653158 , Reply# 27 1/13/2013 at 18:08 (4,119 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie) |
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When the cycle was complete, I pulled each item out one at a time and inspected it. Only four items had stains remaining: A chef's apron (barbecue sauce); a bar mop (strawberry syrup); and two poly-blend dinner napkins (both spaghetti sauce). Only one napkin is seen here because the stain on the other one was so light the camera wasn't picking it up.
These will go into the front-loader, later. 
This post was last edited 01/13/2013 at 18:39 | ||
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Post# 653159 , Reply# 28 1/13/2013 at 18:09 (4,119 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie) |
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Per request of Launderess, I threw the clean load (minus the four items that flunked the test) into the front-loader on the Sanitize cycle to see if and how much detergent was left behind by the Immersion Care. This photo was taken about 45 minutes into the wash period, so the water was really hot.
Yup! There is a little detergent left behind. Not much, but enough to show at the bottom of the glass. I stopped the cycle, spun the load, and chose Rinse & Spin. Only a few bubbles. To be fair, I used two full-to-the-top scoops of Tide for that load, and there was no rinse between the Presoak and the main cycle. That's a hell of a lot of detergent, so I still have no complaints about the machine's rinsing ability. 
This post was last edited 01/13/2013 at 18:47 | ||
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Post# 653160 , Reply# 29 1/13/2013 at 18:10 (4,119 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md) |
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New FD TL Washers Eugene, thanks so much for making and posting these videos and all your test comments. This is the reason that I enjoy this site so much as even though I work with appliances everyday and dispense information to thousands of our customers every year it is always good to get this type of information from people on this site.
While I had posted about this machine before after I saw it in operation at a trade show early last fall it is good to see it in the hands of a member here. And while your videos have not changed my opinion of this washer at least I can report to potential buyers what to expect. I believe the majority of users will be fairly happy with this washer just as most people have been happy other less than great washers, one tends to get used to a machine and use it accordingly, look how many people bought MTs over the last 50 years and after the initial disappointments they got used to the limitations in performance and it usually went on to be a long happy marriage.
This new Frigidaire TL washer certainly is not large in capacity frugal with water usage and it sure doesn't look like it will clean my standard test load of at least 8 pairs of very dirty blue jeans. Unfortunately IMEO their has been only three good US designed and built Hi Efficiency TL washers, the Calypso, the MT Neptune TL and the longest built and only surviving Staber TL tumbler washer. | ||
| Post# 653164 , Reply# 30 1/13/2013 at 18:34 (4,119 days old) by mickeyd (Hamburg NY) | ||
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MANY THANKS, EUGENE
Not just for the wonderful commentary and vids, but for the new friend I made today at Lowe's, the Appliance Guy at the desk, two years out of college, very interested in washers. When he told me that Lowe's doesn't carry Frigidaire, he looked up the Affinity Immersion on his computer to direct me, and Holy Toledo, there was your thread from Aworg, and I said, Hey, that's my friend in the club I was telling you about. Not busy, he chatted me up for almost half an hour.
You are now famous. I wonder if Frigidaire is paying attention. Speaking of whom: someone over there must know and love the former glory of Frigidaire, and want to return the washer to at least some semblance of its past grandeur. Your new machine is meshing with the old on many levels: Gentleness, Water Economy, Unusual Agitation, Squirting Jets, Novel rinsing. You made me laugh, Re: "Wait till you see the shirts cycle." I LOVED it, much more than the heavy towels cycle. The wash-spins were so exciting and satisfying with the water hurling back in, the relentless, abrupt shifts, and water jets ahoy, (Yes, they should be stronger). Also, in complete agreement with you that the spray rinses are more effective than the deep rinse. Leave it to the new unknown Frigidaire Engineer to crack that nut: thorough rinsing with minimal water. Brandon found your new baby at the on-line store called Goedeker's for $495--there are four in stock-- and he's coming over to see my machines next week. Thank you, again! | ||
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Post# 653169 , Reply# 31 1/13/2013 at 19:18 (4,119 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie) |
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Post# 653173 , Reply# 32 1/13/2013 at 19:40 (4,119 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie) |
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FINAL THOUGHTS: If you'd have told me six months ago there would soon be an impeller washer in my laundry room, I'd have scoffed. Perhaps I should have gone with one of CR's recommended models from LG, Maytag, or Whirlpool. They all appear to be smarter and more stylish. But I have a soft spot for Electrolux/Frigidaire and that's all there is to it. I will not be a bit surprised when CR tests the Immersion Care and kicks it straight down to the bottom of the ratings. There are a number of things working against it, and since I have no other impeller machine to compare it to, I can't rave about its cleaning power. I think LG, Maytag, etc., have more effective, powerful wash systems. The Immersion Care does its best work when using as much water as a traditional top-loader.
Here's what I like about the Immersion Care: > User-selectable water level (a big plus in my book) > Lid unlocks immediately when cycle is interrupted and tub comes to a halt > Handles load balancing very well/ very stable suspension > Timed fabric softener dispenser > Easy to defeat lid switch (Thanks, Martin/Yogitunes!!) > Cleans well under ideal conditions Here's where it comes up lacking: > No detergent or timed bleach dispensers > No internal heater > Modest capacity > Plastic instead of stainless steel tub > Relatively slow maximum spin speed > Wash system interesting, but not very brawny Despite getting surprisingly good results the past few days, I'd still recommend that someone interested in a new washer get a Frigidaire front-loader. Having said that, I could live with the Immersion Care being my only washer if I had to. I couldn't say that about its 2006 agitator-based predecessor. This post was last edited 01/13/2013 at 20:38 | ||
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Post# 653178 , Reply# 33 1/13/2013 at 20:20 (4,119 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie) |
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George: I haven't taken the water temps with an instant-read thermometer yet, but I will soon, then let you know. I'd be surprised if warm is over 85 degrees, and the hot water is, unfortunately, dumbed-down. I could hear it alternating between warm and hot during the fill for the load of whites. Haven't used the cool setting yet. Temp-controlled cold is probably 60-65. In other words, all the temps are cooler than I'd prefer them to be.
Rich: It fills to what I consider an acceptable level with heavier fabrics like bath towels, etc. I feel it under-fills for lightweight fabrics, like loads of dress shirts. I'm so glad Frigidaire permits the choice of letting the machine decide or letting the user decide how much water should be in the tub. Frontloaderfan: The impeller at the bottom of the tub is actually bolted/screwed to the tub. The impeller doesn't move separately from the tub, as with other impeller machines I've seen. In short, the answer is yes: the spinning tub is creating the agitation. John: Unless you have the waist and inseam of a 10-year old, I don't think eight pairs of jeans will even fit in the machine, LOL. My front-loader, however, says "Bring it on!" Mickeyd: Glad you found a new friend who is also a washer-head! Did he already know about AW? This site the holy grail for appliance-lovers. I'm glad you've enjoyed the videos. It's been fun to play with this machine because it's very different from any washer I've had. There are so many different agitation strokes and other little surprises that keep it interesting. This post was last edited 01/13/2013 at 21:42 | ||
| Post# 653180 , Reply# 34 1/13/2013 at 20:31 (4,119 days old) by PassatDoc (Orange County, California) | ||
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't you also own a late model Frigidaire FL (4473 or 4474?). Assuming I'm right, how does that machine and this new one compare in terms of cleaning ability, cycle time, etc. | ||
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Post# 653181 , Reply# 35 1/13/2013 at 20:50 (4,119 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie) |
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Hi Jim--- I have a 2010 Frigidaire front-loader; it was the first of the larger capacity redesigned models. I believe it's the 4474. It is far superior to the Immersion Care in a number of ways, including cleaning ability.
The cycle times for Frigidaire's front-loaders were recently increased. The Normal cycle on my 4474 is 40 minutes, which is way too short for a machine of its capacity. The newest one, tested by Consumer Reports, has a Normal cycle time of 80 minutes, which brings it in line with LG, Maytag/Whirlpool, and Samsung. Not surprisingly, the Frigidaire raced to the upper reaches of the ratings because the cleaning score improved. You can probably get an 8-lb. load clean in 40 minutes, but not a maximum capacity load, and CR tests for both. I get excellent cleaning results for large loads by using the steam option (additional 20 minutes of tumbling in the form of a hot first rinse) or the allergy option (again, about 20 minutes of additional tumbling, but in the wash period). I use the Sanitize cycle for my very heavily-stained loads of kitchen whites, which gradually heats the water to 155 degrees. That cycle is 1 hour 36 minutes, or 1 hour and 47 if you add an extra rinse, which I do since I use liquid chlorine bleach. The wash tumble time is 70 minutes if you select the heaviest soil level option. It has never, ever failed to remove any stain of any kind. It's a long cycle, but definitely worth the wait. | ||
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Post# 653318 , Reply# 36 1/14/2013 at 15:42 (4,118 days old) by Yogitunes (New Jersey) |
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thanks for all the wonderful full length videos...
this is the first proto type, and of course there are gonna be a few changes....ones I would like, or actually see them doing..... 1. larger fins on the impellor 2. a more forceful waterfall, and maybe lasting thruout the cycle like the Calypso or Catalyst Pre-Soak Cleaning 3. ribs built into the tub itself.....but have noticed them missing on the single unit, but they are there in the stacked set...wonder why? 
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Post# 653337 , Reply# 37 1/14/2013 at 16:51 (4,118 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie) |
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I've taken the temperature of all the water temp settings using an instant-read thermometer. Temps were taken after one minute of agitation.
Hot: 115 degrees Warm: 90 degrees Cool: 70 degrees Temp-Controlled Cold: 50 degrees HATE THE DUMBED-DOWN HOT SETTING!! 115 degrees is not hot water. You can safely proof yeast at that temperature for God's sake. I was hoping for tap-hot water in the Whites cycle, but no. Note to manufacturers: Washers without internal heaters should get tap-hot water. 50 degrees is too cold for detergents to work to their potential. Most washer manuals tell you that detergents will not clean effectively at temperatures below 65 degrees. Guess I'll be using the hot setting for everything but black loads, which will get cool water. Washed a load consisting of two bulky (1000-thread count) queen-sized sheets, two king-size pillowcases and four standard pillowcases on the Bedding cycle (not to be confused with the Comforter cycle). Machine handled it with aplomb. No tangling, although the top sheet did rope a bit. John/Combo 52: Eight pairs of my x-large jeans wouldn't fit in the tub. It handled six pairs, but I'd only do that if they were lightly soiled. If they are really grimy, I'd go with only four pairs. Eight pairs of heavily-soiled jeans is a tough, tough test. Which top-loaders have you found pass that test? Martin: The tub of my 1986 Frigidaire top-loader had those vertical ribs, if I recall correctly. The tub in the Immersion Care is exactly the same as my 2006 top-loader. It's a series of vertical slats, which I was told help to channel more water to the tub holes during spins. This post was last edited 01/14/2013 at 17:08 | ||
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Post# 653359 , Reply# 38 1/14/2013 at 17:55 (4,118 days old) by Yogitunes (New Jersey) |
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of course I can't find it on YouTube right now...but they had video of a lady using a Haier portable, and how to wash a blanket....and wonder if this would help in one of these machines.......
she would first lay the blanket flat, and then fold it in a "Z" formation lengthwise, and starting at one end, roll it up into a so-called barrel, and placed it in the machine to wash....with the right water level she had great results....just a thought still, all in all, an interesting machine.... | ||
| Post# 653364 , Reply# 39 1/14/2013 at 18:14 (4,118 days old) by mickeyd (Hamburg NY) | ||
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Are you reading my mind? If you had had real hot water rather than the dumbed down tepid nonsense, those stains might have come out ! So this machine is an even greater performer than tests will allow, unless you can hose fill it with tap hot. By the way, loved the found art in the stain pile, "Chefsmears."
Has anyone out there figured out how to outsmart the not hot water? OH, MARTIN! What if you turned off the cold tap during the wash fill, or would it shut down and shout, "ERROR 666, Frigilux, that does not compute." ;'D
To answer your question: Brandon was showing me the store vids of the Bravo on the very large computer screen at Lowe's. I had told him earlier in the conversation about Aworg. When he searched to see if Lowe's had plans to order the Frigidaire Immersion, and found out that they would not be carrying it, he said he"d find out who has it. When he searched, your Aworg thread, the one you just made, was right there, 5th or 6th on the list of Immersion references. It was uncanny, cool, and wonderful. So you're right up there as a first explorer! Congrats. This post was last edited 01/14/2013 at 22:44 | ||
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Post# 653389 , Reply# 40 1/14/2013 at 19:22 (4,118 days old) by Yogitunes (New Jersey) |
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Mickey
these auto water temps are getting harder to by-pass......I was doing that on my Cabrio (which actually only dubbed my hot water down 10 degrees from the water heater, 140 was still not bad!), first I removed the sensor from the fill flume path, granted it did a complete HOT fill now, everything else was COLD, not a bad thing, but you would not get a WARM fill at all by doing this.....so I slid the sensor back in place and left it alone.. turning off the COLD tap did exactly as stated, ERROR CODE 666...now what I do, is turn the COLD water valve down to almost a trickle, this will allow the most HOT water for the wash, and then back to Normal for the rinses....it may be an idea that will work for you as well... every machine is different though, and would be curious as to what would happen by taking the sensor out of the Frigidaire.... theres always the idea of maually doing it by "Y" valves or manually moving both hoses to the HOT valve for the first fill... Eugene, what is your water heater temp set to?....like I said, the Cabrio only drops it down 10 degrees no matter what the Hot water is set......so if mine was set at 120....I would get 110..... | ||
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Post# 653405 , Reply# 41 1/14/2013 at 20:26 (4,118 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie) |
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Mickeyd & Martin: Read your posts and gave it a shot: I turned off the cold tap and fired up the Whites cycle. As in every other cycle, the first minute or so of the fill is with cold water. The machine just sat there. So I opened the tap and when it did its first little spin to dissolve the detergent, I shut the tap off again. Suddenly...HOT WATER!! Yay!! Dancing in the streets....until the water in the tub reached 115, then it wanted only cold again. The fill alternates between cold, warm, and hot during a fill for hot. As soon as it wants cold water, you're stuck. Frankly, whites are going to be washed in the front-loader, so it's not a big deal.
Hot water comes out of the tap at 140 degrees. For all the energy-saving steps I take, dialing the gas water heater down to 120 degrees is something I've resisted. I keep the house at 64-65 degrees all winter to make up for it. Glad to know my foolishness at being an "early adopter" is paying off in Google searches, LOL! I know it's prudent to wait until the bugs are worked out of products before buying, but someone has to be the hard-headed idiot to buy immediately, otherwise new products would wither on the vine, right? That's how I rationalize it, at any rate. | ||
| Post# 653410 , Reply# 42 1/14/2013 at 20:37 (4,118 days old) by mickeyd (Hamburg NY) | ||
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Martin to the rescue. I knew you'd know. Yeah, with quick release adapters on the taps and the faucet end of the cold hose, you could snap it on another hot tap for the wash fill, then slip onto cold thereafter. The Y hose would be a permanent solution, and you'd always have full manual control of temps.
It was such a rude awakening to find that this silent performer lost the stain race to a heating front loader.
How would the Front Loader have fared in Yeast Water LOL, and without the powerful Persil Bio and Tri-Zyme ? Our host has done too much to ask for another contest. Maybe in the summer. | ||
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Post# 653417 , Reply# 43 1/14/2013 at 21:24 (4,118 days old) by logixx (Germany) |
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YAY
Love the videos! Downloaded them to see them in 4x speed and one can clearly see the reverse turnover (just the first video for now). The wash action is similar to a Haier TL that was out a few years ago. I think they should have added paddles to the drum to make for even more movement:
CLICK HERE TO GO TO logixx's LINK | ||
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Post# 653587 , Reply# 45 1/15/2013 at 17:40 (4,117 days old) by eronie (Flushing Michigan) |
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Hot water On my GE HYGROWAVE just unpluged the sensor from the motherboard . hot warm or cold ! easy fix . YEA? | ||
| Post# 653702 , Reply# 48 1/16/2013 at 10:24 (4,117 days old) by franksdad (Greenville, South Carolina) | ||
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| Post# 653782 , Reply# 49 1/16/2013 at 17:17 (4,116 days old) by frontloaderfan (Merrimac valley, MA) | ||
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@ PassatDoc or anyone else...
I noticed that the Frigidaire FL'ers are designed to be "disposable" (replace rather than fix). You can't just buy the bearings when they go, you have to buy the entire rear tub assembly; you have to buy the entire basket assembly as opposed to just buying the spider.
When mine (3801) goes (I just bought them, so probably not for a while), I would like to fix them as opposed to throwing them away. It doesn't seem right that such a hunk of machinery should end up in the landfill simply because the bearings go out or the spider breaks. Anyone care to comment on this? Ryan | ||
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Post# 653797 , Reply# 50 1/16/2013 at 18:34 (4,116 days old) by Yogitunes (New Jersey) |
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Ryan
you might not have to buy the whole caboodle...... the same issue has come up with the Neptunes.....you have to buy the rear tub with bearings and seals installed....$700.00..... only to find out the bearings(standard stock) and seals are still available.....around $50.00 for everything....and with a little muscle and a few tools.....and about 2 hours, you can have it running like new again!... the TONY TOOL can help and speed things up, and can be rented, but this all can be done without it as well.... once you do your first one.....the rest are a piece a cake.... you may want to shop around now for bearings and seals, while in stock, and have them ready! | ||
| Post# 653892 , Reply# 51 1/17/2013 at 08:44 (4,116 days old) by frontloaderfan (Merrimac valley, MA) | ||
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Yogibear:
Sounds like a good plan! I haven't been able to find said parts for my machine though. I've gone to several online parts places and they all tell me the same thing: The bearings/seal cannot be bought separately, they come with the rear tub, etc. Perhaps the Frigidiares use the same exact bearings as other washers and these can be bought separately? I saw on youtube where a guy actually upgraded his Whirly's bearings to some kind of high-performance stainless steel roller bearing and the thing ran like nobody's business afterward. Maybe somebody out there in aworg land knows something...:-) Ryan | ||
| Post# 653902 , Reply# 52 1/17/2013 at 09:24 (4,116 days old) by golittlesport (California) | ||
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There was a file on YouTube, or maybe it was a blog with photos on one of the repair sites, of a guy replacing the bearings only on his Frigidaire. It was step by step and didn't look too terribly difficult, although time consuming. I think the bearings are standard issue that can easily be located. This was years ago I saw it, but it still may be around if you search the Internet.
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| Post# 653916 , Reply# 54 1/17/2013 at 11:18 (4,116 days old) by frontloaderfan (Merrimac valley, MA) | ||
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Spiders, etc | ||
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Post# 653975 , Reply# 55 1/17/2013 at 17:11 (4,115 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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Not To Hijack This Thread
So perhaps it should be covered in a new one, but "throw away" washing machines are pretty much the standard one way or another for modern offerings.
Unit tub/bearing assemblies,lots of plastic, unfriendly service design, high cost of repair and or parts in relation to cost of purchasing new, and so forth are all reasons for this change. From high end brands to low you can read comments posted all over places like Thathomesite.com and else where about washing machines five years old or less being junked or sold off because of a part "failure". Miele washers and dryers in particular have very high part replacement costs and often labour as well. If the motherboard or some other major component goes you're easily looking at three to four hundred dollars in part costs, then two or more hundred for labour. That is if the thing can be repaired in house. There are reports of certain Miele washing machines having bearing or spider failures (W1918, W12XX series) after less than six years of use. Those repairs cannot be done in field which means the unit must go back to New Jersey. Unless covered by warranty or otherwise Miele picks up the tab, most choose to junk the washer. There is a rumor that Miele used aluminum spiders on the W1203 and similar series, but cannot confirm. Here's another thing, many washer and dryer makers are quickly laying the blame for many issues with consumers using "too much detergent" and or the wrong type, and thus refusing to cover warranty repairs. Miele's most recent offerings of washers all have over sudsing indicators and each occurance is kept on "file" inside the machine. When or if a Miele tech arrives for a service call they can download the history of the machine including such events. Miele USA's customer service/tech support already is quick to lay blame on a host of issues consumer's experience with their machines (bearing failures, activation of the Waterproof system, leaks, etc...), if the tech arrives and the machine "tells" him it has been "abused" they will run with that. | ||
| Post# 653980 , Reply# 56 1/17/2013 at 17:34 (4,115 days old) by frontloaderfan (Merrimac valley, MA) | ||
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yikes and apologies... | ||
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Post# 653981 , Reply# 57 1/17/2013 at 17:35 (4,115 days old) by Yogitunes (New Jersey) |
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for most, these are just standard bearings.....forget the idea that their used for a washer, just give them the bearing number, for a few dollars more, I pick the stainless steel ones, and sealed at that....
a lot of guys also use a washer of types, wether plastic or neoprene, when reinstalling the inner tub to the spider, so the two don't actually touch, which is also a factor in corrosion of the spider...worth a few pennies if it helps... | ||
| Post# 653982 , Reply# 58 1/17/2013 at 17:39 (4,115 days old) by mark_wpduet (Lexington KY) | ||
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I don't mean to hijack either | ||
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Post# 653985 , Reply# 59 1/17/2013 at 18:00 (4,115 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie) |
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| Post# 653987 , Reply# 60 1/17/2013 at 18:03 (4,115 days old) by frontloaderfan (Merrimac valley, MA) | ||
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Post# 654056 , Reply# 61 1/17/2013 at 22:14 (4,115 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md) |
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Spider and Bearing Failures WOW where to begin, Almost all washing machines have critical parts made of various grades of aluminum and it is usually the part that supports the drum or basket. The aluminum spiders that are used in FL washers today will seldom ever fail in the life of the washer IF THE MACHINE IS USED PROPERLY manufactures test these machines thoroughly and even use them in commercial environments and they almost never have a spider failure. It is when they get in a consumers hands and they continually use poor washing tech nicks that the problems occur.
Biggest single problem TOO LITTLE DETERGENT
Second biggest problem TOO COLD WATER TEMPERATURE FOR GOOD CLEANING
Third problem NO CHLORINE BLEACH USE these problems coupled with leaving the machine closed tightly and sometimes excessive fabric softener use more often that not spell mold and odors, spider failure, water seal and bearing failure.
Other thoughts
It will likely do little or no good to try to coat the aluminum spider in an attempt to prevent corrosion, washer manufactures tried this when aluminum water pumps etc were still in broad use and it helped very little and sometimes even trapped moisture and made the problem worse.
SS bearings will not help [ if there is even such a thing ] No sealed ball bearing is designed to run under water, this is why there is a primary water seal and the shaft is still plain steel anyway.
Use your washer properly and if you want a machine that can be easily rebuilt BUY A SPEED QUEEN FL WASHER, SQ FL washers have a design life of up to 25,000 loads that is 21/2 longer than even the overpriced Mieles. If you don't want a well built machine buy a Frigidaire and take care of it and you will still likely get more than 20 years use out of it before it has serious issues. | ||
| Post# 654068 , Reply# 62 1/17/2013 at 23:29 (4,115 days old) by mindyj () | ||
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Does that have a plastic tub? Geez how long will that cheap shi last | ||
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Post# 654078 , Reply# 63 1/18/2013 at 01:58 (4,115 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie) |
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Post# 654086 , Reply# 64 1/18/2013 at 03:38 (4,115 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands) |
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Post# 654089 , Reply# 65 1/18/2013 at 04:55 (4,115 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie) |
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Louis-- I washed a load of bath linens on the Normal cycle last night, and it appeared to ramp up to 800 rpm during the final spin. I have become so accustomed to the super-fast 1300 rpm speed of my front-loader that the Immersion Care seemed slow by comparison. My 2006 Frigidaire top-loader (with traditional agitator) spun at 625 rpm (or so the literature stated, at any rate).
The more I use the Immersion Care the more I like it (relatively speaking), but the bogus "hot" water setting is a major disappointment. The ability to choose the water level manually is the big selling point for me, as using a little more water really seems to improve movement of the load. I prefer the multiple spray-rinses over a single deep rinse so I'm still using less total water than a traditional top-loader. Front-loaders can do an excellent job of cleaning with very little water and still be gentle with fabrics. I'm not convinced the same is true of impeller-based top-loaders. Immersion Care Quirks: 1. The heavy soil setting on the Normal Cycle is 71 minutes. Strangely, the heavy soil setting on the Heavy Duty cycle is only 61 minutes. 2. There are four manually-selectable water levels: Minimum, Low, Normal, and Maximum. The Low and Normal water levels are exactly the same. I've washed several loads going back and forth between the two settings to confirm this. Odd. This post was last edited 01/18/2013 at 05:49 | ||
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Post# 654119 , Reply# 66 1/18/2013 at 08:03 (4,115 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands) |
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Post# 654614 , Reply# 68 1/20/2013 at 06:59 (4,113 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie) |
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Bud-- I understand completely your skepticism about the Immersion Care washer. I've been using it exclusively the past two weeks and I'm just now beginning to accept the way it works. As I mentioned in the "Bought One" thread, I've abandoned the terms turnover / rollover in conjunction the IC in favor of the term "shift position". It's a very odd thing to watch in person because unlike traditional turnover, where the whole load moves gracefully in unison, individual items anywhere in the tub will shift positions, seemingly without rhyme or reason. I'm still a bit surprised when the load comes out clean; it just doesn't seem like it should!
The official literature describing the wash action emphasizes the idea of moving water through the fabrics, not necessarily the fabrics through the water. So far, it has cleaned everything I've thrown at it---but it doesn't handle comforters well. Speed Queen: I know you're a fan of the brand and the local LG dealer has just started carrying it, so I stopped by yesterday. Both a top-loading and a front-loading pair were on the showroom floor. I can see now why you guys tout the build quality of those machines. Very impressive. | ||
| Post# 654639 , Reply# 69 1/20/2013 at 09:00 (4,113 days old) by kenmoreguy89 (Valenza Piemonte, Italy- Soon to be US immigrant.) | ||
 Thank you for posting these videos, they confirmed what I initially thought since the start about this machine, not to be the only negative but have to be honest, this is absolutely not what personally I would expect and want from a washer and so after the "stained" load result I would immediately ask a return and my money back..... Of course I find absurd also it can't accept water hotter and fills alternatively with cold..... I would request a return just for this idiocy only.
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Post# 654736 , Reply# 70 1/20/2013 at 15:30 (4,112 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie) |
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Freddy: I am sure there are many people who watched the Immersion Care videos and thought, "No way would I want one of those washers!"; nor do I take it as a personal insult when someone expresses that viewpoint in a post. I purchased the IC mainly from curiosity, as so few of us at AW own an impeller-based top-loader---and no one, to my knowledge, has one of these new "faux-impeller" Frigidaires. The videos are posted only to allow people to see how it works, not to pursuade anyone to purchase one. I will say that the machine has performed better than I expected, especially since it is crippled with such anemic "hot" water. I always use chlorine bleach for loads of kitchen whites (as did my Italian mother), so it didn't occur to me not to use in the load pictured above. Take care, and Buon pomeriggio!
This post was last edited 01/20/2013 at 15:52 | ||
| Post# 654750 , Reply# 71 1/20/2013 at 16:53 (4,112 days old) by kenmoreguy89 (Valenza Piemonte, Italy- Soon to be US immigrant.) | ||
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Glad to hear it. Glad to hear it, no reason to take on personal, I respect other opinions as I'd like others would do with mine, agree is another thing, not always one can agree with others, that is normal and obvious but I believe that being free of sharing what is a personal thought or opinion is a sacred right here and in life generally, so do not see why hide what one think or being offended for this...if everyone would avoid writing a personal viewpoint for fear of disagree with other members this community would probably end in a week. Ciao! | ||
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Post# 654884 , Reply# 72 1/21/2013 at 07:02 (4,112 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md) |
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New FD TL Washers When I was at the Frigidaire dealers warehouse last Thursday they already had two stack versions that came back dead on arrival, the warehouse guy offered me one for about $200 if I wanted it, I passed for now as we are just too busy. I am sure many consumers will be happy with this washer and it will certainly be very gentile on clothing, even more so than front loading washers. Further it could be reasonably durable as the basic machine is very simple compared to machines like the Calypso and MT Neptune TL that not only turned clothing over but were two of the BEST cleaning washers EVER.
Eugene you had asked which washers that I usually wash 8 pairs of jeans in, lately i have been using my Frigidaire 1-18, but this same load will fit in almost any washer that I use regularly, the Calypso, the SQ FL, the 1966 KM gas Combo, My 1966 GE Combo, and of coerce any super capacity DD washer with a DA agitator.
I ware size 32W-36 I. | ||
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Post# 655506 , Reply# 73 1/24/2013 at 06:09 (4,109 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie) |
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WRAP-UP: I've been using the Immersion Care exclusively for the past three weeks, so it has washed enough loads to reveal its true demeanor. Despite its drawbacks, I could definitely live with this as a daily driver. As mentioned previously, the big selling point is the ability to manually select the water level. When it uses about as much water as a traditional top-loader, the load moves well and cleaning is great (under the ideal conditions of very soft water and a top-rated detergent).
PROS: 1. Very flexible NORMAL cycle: At Extra Light soil setting it's a great quick wash. At Stain Treat, it provides "hot" (115 degree) water and an 89-minute cycle which cleans better than the 60-minute Heavy Duty or Whites cycles. I use the Normal cycle for everything except delicates. Forget the Bedding cycle for sheets. The more aggressive Normal cycle cleans better and I find no more tangling/roping than when the Bedding cycle is used for queen-size sheets. 2. Manual water level selections: The Immersion Care is probably the only impeller-based machine which permits this. I've stopped letting the machine's sensor determine the water level; it's almost always lower than it needs to be for optimal cleaning. I save on total water consumption by using the spray rinse procedure. I don't use fabric softener, so this is no problem. I think it rinses better than one deep rinse. If you use fabric softener (triggering a deep rinse), the machine uses as much water as a traditional top-loader. 3. No unbalanced load issues: Have washed upwards of 20 loads, and each has been very well balanced. As a test, I washed my very heavy bath robe on its own, expecting to find out what happens in an unbalanced situation. It handled the unbalanced load with no problems, reaching what appeared to be a full-speed (and quite dramatic-looking) spin. Consequently, I still don't know if there's an unbalanced load protocol that other impeller machines have. Like its 2006 agitator-based sibling, it is a champ in this department. CONS: 1. Ridiculously dumbed-down hot water setting. Delivers 115 degree water at Normal or Max water level, 95-110 on Minimum to Low water levels. Absolutely inexcusable. In addition to using liquid chlorine bleach with loads of kitchen and personal whites (standard procedure for me) I also use some in loads of bath linens and sheets (all are white) with this washer to ensure some degree of disinfection. An internal heater wouldn't do much, as this machine uses more water than other impeller washers. It would take forever to heat the water at the Maximum level. 2. Smallish capacity: If you don't often wash loads over 10 lbs. (hello 1960!), this washer will fit your needs in the capacity department. Most of mine are between 5-10 lbs., save for gigantic loads of whites and bath linens. I have to wash 7 large, heavy bath towels and around a dozen large hand towels in two loads. Not a washer for families with several kids. 3. Large, bulky items: Plan to take a hands-on approach in assisting the washer with queen-size comforters and blankets. If you stop the machine and turn the item every few minutes, you can use it for comforters/blankets. Otherwise, plan on taking a trip to the laundromat. 4. Spin speed: Not up to today's 1000 rpm (or more) standards. This one tops out at 800 rpm, and heavy loads of towels are noticeably damp compared to being spun in a front-loader. 5. Gentleness to fabrics: More lint in dryer filter leads me to believe it's harder on fabrics than the front-loader. Probably more gentle than other impeller machines that use less water. This post was last edited 01/24/2013 at 11:17 | ||
| Post# 655514 , Reply# 74 1/24/2013 at 07:03 (4,109 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA) | ||
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Review | ||
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Post# 655733 , Reply# 75 1/25/2013 at 07:11 (4,108 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md) |
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New FD TL Washers Good report, YOU should be working for CRs, I think that CRs biggest problem is they do not do nearly enough testing and provide WAY too little information to their readers. CRs does not even give hot water use, cold water use, electric use or even water extraction % for their washer testing.
We will see a lot of the stack versions of this machine in our market area and depending on a number of factors we will even be selling some, I dough I would ever sell the stand alone washer as their are too many good alternatives. The new WP built BD washers are working very well with few complaints and almost no repair problems, and of coarse we are mainly selling SQ TL for those that will not buy a FL washer.
Thanks again for all your test information Eugene, John. | ||
| Post# 655736 , Reply# 76 1/25/2013 at 07:31 (4,108 days old) by aldspinboy (Philadelphia, Pa) | ||
They dont call you Frigilux for nothing lol .
You no,,, I love all machines. In 1997 I saw this ad in the back of a high end kicthen magazine, small ad mind you..it was a Fisher & Paykel washer. It said Eco smart washer and spun at 1000 rpm. I was stunned and went out to search for it. It was so new no one had it in stores, then bingo it was in ABC appliences in New Jersey. My friend John took me to see it.. ooh was he thrilled lol NOT. They had a cutout and the owner was so excited to show me. He turned it on and the basket started turning with water and then as it got to a small water level with the vanes coverd, The agitator did small jerking movements and did this noise free gentle agitation ! And that was it for me I saw a SHIFT in washing tecnology. That's how I got my first job BY Knowing more about that washer then the Gerhard brothers. The storey is long but fast forward to SEARS, They came out with a wash plate model first. Then the Whirlpool Cabrio. Being a fan of F & P products all of my colleges laughed at me when the first F&P washer with the agitaor, then a wash plate. Both are still on the market. My point is EVERY OTHER COMPANY FOLLOWED THIS DESIGN OR CONCEPT with different protocals PERIOD. I said you can laugh at me all you want,, THIS DESIGN is here to stay ! Thanks first for your videos and the time you put in your threads ! I thank we see vintage TURNOVER as by all the means. But things do change ,,just because you see low water or none at all does not mean it is cleaning or not gentle enough. Reverse rollover is hard to get use to or dragging in some machines, with agitators. Yes that is a argument. But I like your new Frigidare washer and would recommend it. I like the sounds at the end of it indexing pretty soothing and quit. Agitube with a low profile washplate seems it doing it's job. And keeping tradition in some fashion. Fun washer. I have your wash tub with water on my screen saver this week. The hump in the middle is soo traditional still amazes me how the clothes creeps up in the center and roll back. Would like to know if you used the ... Kids care Delicate Handwash cycles yet..? The different wash speeds at the end is interesting and the distrabution speeds. In your unit. So the only HE washer that has a traditional fill is F & P wash plate model, it gives you a option of HE or High water filling if you like. I hope you have a great time and many years of service with your new washer. Thanks to Sir wolf Fisher and Marice Paykel company for starting a new trend. Even thou it has there quirks as if any companey does not ! It is what it is for now ,,and will see as the tub turns. Darren k | ||
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Post# 679446 , Reply# 78 5/15/2013 at 07:14 (3,998 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie) |
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Carla-- I have a Frigidaire 4474 with the Stain Treat option. I find it doesn't really do much, so I don't use it, anymore. Adding the steam option to a cycle, or the allergy option to the Heavy Duty cycle is more effective in removing stains. The best cycle for stain removal--colorfast or whites only--is the Sanitize cycle. I wash large loads of heavily-stained kitchen whites using that cycle and everything comes out sparkling clean with no pretreating. It's a long cycle (about 1 hour and 40 minutes), but it does the job.
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