Thread Number: 44536
Disposable washers
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Post# 653984   1/17/2013 at 17:51 (4,087 days old) by frontloaderfan (Merrimac valley, MA)        

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First off, my apologies to Frigilux for having hijacked his thread about his new 2013 Frigidaire Immersion Care TL washer.

We were talking about the disposable construction of today's washers. The cost of repairing a major failure (bearing, spider) in my Frigidaire Affinity 3801 would be around $400 just for parts. It only cost $600 new. They don't want you to fix them. Instead, they want you to toss the entire thing in the landfill and buy another. How is that eco-friendly? The tub assembly, which you have to buy if you need the spider, costs $180. The rear tub assembly, which contains the bearings, costs just over $200. Frigidaire needs to rethink their approach to "eco-friendly".





Post# 653995 , Reply# 1   1/17/2013 at 18:35 (4,087 days old) by Yogitunes (New Jersey)        

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Your right.....they really need to look at the total carbon footprint this entire machine has on a "green" outlook versus a few bearings that can be recycled...

and yet they'll make a big deal out of how many plastic bottles end up in landfills after drinking...again, these don't have to end up there, they can be recycled...


but its our economy as well, they don't want longevity, they want NEW stuff every few years, why waste time building something that will last 30 or so years, people get bored fast, and will toss it out anyway.....


Post# 654035 , Reply# 2   1/17/2013 at 19:56 (4,087 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie)        

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Ryan---You should copy and paste the posts about disposable washers from the videos thread to this one. This is a great topic of conversation and some interesting things were posted at the other thread.

Post# 654039 , Reply# 3   1/17/2013 at 20:10 (4,087 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        

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According to Consumer Reports, the average lifespan of a washing machine today is about five years. After that the costs of some repairs could equal half or more of purchasing a new machine, in which case they recommend not having the work done and buying new.

Even without recycling mandates found in other places such as the EU large appliances here in the USA for the most part are "scrapped" for anything of value and what is left goes to landfill. Put a washer or dryer out on the curb in NYC and it is almost certain in a day or less it will be broken down if not totally hauled away by scrappers. If by some chance the City does get ahold of it, the thing will be broken down by them as part of it's recycling program and sold off for scrap.

Much of the problems with todays washers and other major appliances is that consumers want the moon but aren't willing to pay. Even adjusted for inflation and rising material costs a washing machine costs less today than in the "built to last" heydays of yore.

There is also the fact that despite being "durable white goods" appliances have often become anything but. Consumers throw out, rip out, etc.. almost new appliances for various reasons and thus aren't always willing to pay huge sums.



CLICK HERE TO GO TO Launderess's LINK


Post# 654054 , Reply# 4   1/17/2013 at 21:50 (4,087 days old) by qualin (Canada)        

Consider this thread I'm posting below...

A Kenmore washer from 1963 was $239.95 and the dryer was $169.95.
Indexed for inflation, That washer would be $1800.36 and the dryer $1275.15.
That's $3076.11 for the set.

These days, spending that much on a top loader these days would be considered outrageous. Only the highest end front loaders go for that much these days.

I guess the world economy has forced everyones hand, there just isn't the incentive to build them to last if nobody will buy their "expensive" product, even though that's what it really costs.


CLICK HERE TO GO TO qualin's LINK


Post# 654061 , Reply# 5   1/17/2013 at 22:34 (4,087 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        
Top Loading Washing Machines With Central Beaters

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Reached the apex of design and maturity probably around the 1970's or so, everything after that was model year after model year of various "extras" to get the consumer to trade up.

GM/Frigidare and many former "greats" of the laundry appliance saw the writing on the wall along time ago and began selling up. Of course there were various reasons besides, but one of the biggest ones was that the great appliance demand was starting to wane.

A huge boost to American consumer demand not only for laundry but other appliances as well was the huge post-war housing building boom. Between pent up demand and all those new housing developments going up in the new suburbs it was a happy time for anyone looking to sell anything housing related. But as the inflation and other problems of the 1970's began to take hold demand contracted.

The other thing is that appliance makers knew if they continued to "build them like they used to", a good number of consumers would either repair and or continue using their current units instead of buying new.

A well built and designed top loader that is cared for properly and maintained as well can last decades. Yes, you may have to replace the odd tub seal or whatnot but long as the tranmission, motor and a few other critical parts are good, the thing will keep going.

So what we have now are "durable goods" that are anything but. If you get seven years out of a washing machine today that is considered good enough.

As pointed out above every manufacturer knows how to make "tank" like laundry appliances, lord knows they've been doing so for commercial use for generations. However look at the price of even the cheapest true laundromat/commercial washing machine versus domestic and you get the idea.



Post# 654158 , Reply# 6   1/18/2013 at 10:16 (4,086 days old) by kb0nes (Burnsville, MN)        
Service Paranoia

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It seems like a lot of the problem with appliances getting tossed out is the simple paranoia that the service tech is out to screw over the owner. Many people I talk to won't consider calling for service for the fear of the cost. They figure it will cost as much for the repair as a new unit even though in most cases the repair of a new appliance is often pretty inexpensive, so to the curb it goes.

Over the holidays one of my girlfriends relatives was talking about how a refrigerator made today won't last more then 7 years. I said that most of the problems a refrigerator might have early on are typically easily reparable at reasonable cost (defrost issues and the like). I said I'd expect a minimum of 15-20 years from even a modern refrigerator/freezer.

In almost every case it is worth the cost of a service call to at least see if the appliance is repairable. I'm sure there are some less reputable companies that have caused people to be wary though.


Post# 654172 , Reply# 7   1/18/2013 at 11:20 (4,086 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
Life of Newer Appliances

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CRs DID NOT say the average life of a new washer is 5 years. They said if you have a 5 year old or older TL washer that is BROKEN it is probably better to consider replacement. Even so I still do not think that this is good advice I think my brother Phil's advice { above ] is better, see if it can be fixed, more often than not repairs are reasonable usually less than 1/3 the cost of replacing.


Post# 654188 , Reply# 8   1/18/2013 at 12:37 (4,086 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA)        
It's the Waiting...

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I know the dread of having to call for a service appointment, then taking a day off from work.  Waiting and HOPING the service guy shows up.  Then the diagnosis and repair fee.  Followed by waiting for parts to arrive.  Then, taking another day off from work, waiting for the tech to return and praying to the heavens above that all the parts required were ordered, arrived in good condition, and having the problem resolved in that second visit.

 

Not to mention, depending on a local laundromat during the 2-6 week ordeal.  Most people would rather go to the big box store, plunk down a given sum of money and having a new replacement installed in most cases the following day.

 

Malcolm


Post# 654246 , Reply# 9   1/18/2013 at 17:30 (4,086 days old) by frontloaderfan (Merrimac valley, MA)        

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That's why I'm trying to learn how to fix my own before it breaks...they seem pretty straight forward...I think successfully repairing my own machine would be a huge confidence booster..

Post# 654264 , Reply# 10   1/18/2013 at 18:31 (4,086 days old) by imperial70 (MA USA)        
The Waiting

Malcom,

 

Well said.  I think that is another aspect that keeps people from getting repair service.  Even in the "old days" It took a few days for the service man to get to the home. Then once there, if it was a major part and it wasn't on the truck.... another few days.  Today it seems more aggrivated with spare parts not being stocked.   I know it would probably keep me from getting a repair.


Post# 654288 , Reply# 11   1/18/2013 at 18:58 (4,086 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
Getting a Major Appliance Repaired Today.

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WOW you guys sure are negative about getting an appliance fixed, yes it does take a few days [ in some cases ] to get us to the door. We give you a two hour window on the day of the appointment, we can also come after 3,4,5 PM etc for people that be home that early. We fix at least 80% of the appliances on the first try and the average repaired cost [ including the service call ] is still somewhat less than $150.

 

Compare this to the horror of trying to buy a new major appliance, and getting it to your home, getting the correct model appliance, getting one that will fit in your home, getting it installed in your home all without any damage to the new appliance or your home. To say nothing about how much stuff most people have to move to get the appliance in and out of the house, LOL. And it is more likely that a delivery company will make you wait all day.


Post# 654310 , Reply# 12   1/18/2013 at 19:32 (4,086 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        
Consumer Reports

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Had the number wrong, it is ten years not five but CR does give life expectancy for various appliances using information from a third party source:

CLICK HERE TO GO TO Launderess's LINK


Post# 654319 , Reply# 13   1/18/2013 at 19:55 (4,086 days old) by kb0nes (Burnsville, MN)        
CR ratings?

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Does Consumers Reports anywhere define how they came up with these estimates?

My hunch is that they are simply compiling the data from the subscriber surveys that they send out to determine the "average" life of a given appliance.

Peoples tendencies to replace vs repair (perhaps due to the various reasons listed above) are therefore skewing the life expectancy numbers. It would be like saying the average life of a pet is "x" years based on a large number of owners putting the animals down early!

They do preface their guidelines with a "your mileage may vary" statement which is no doubt true. Usage and maintenance and willingness to repair versus replace make a big difference.

My gas boiler is almost 50, my central AC is 22 and my washer is 30. I certainly will agree that today's products are made more inexpensively and aren't as serviceable. They likely won't hold up like these vintage products do. Still I think that these numbers are pessimistic and they only serve to encourage the disposable lifestyle, which is not very ecological :(


Post# 654322 , Reply# 14   1/18/2013 at 19:57 (4,086 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        
Service Repair & Cost

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First let me say things on the ground are going to vary depending upon where one lives.

Only two of the washers in my "collection" have required the use of a local NYC repair service. We've already covered the Miele in great and express detail so will remind of the "fun" that came with replacing the tub seal on vintage Whirlpool portable.

Used a local NYC repair service and while am not naming any names they do advertise on this site. Mind you only chose this service after being told off by several others because the machine was "old" and parts NLA.

Repair person showed up and after charging nearly $150 for the usual "consult" fee told us the tub seal had gone and the part was NLA. We stated could find the parts ourselves (which we did, several NOS FSP/Whirlpool tub seal replacement kits in fact along with pumps and other bits), but would they do the work. Initally we were quoted something like $400 to do the work and all the while this particular serviceman did the work he kept moaning that the job should cost more. Why? Because his bosses had given us a price of around $100 for the repair job. This clearly didn't sit well with the guy but as it wasn't his call he did the job and the machine has been working properly since.

Mind you we used this particular company several years ago when our Wallmaster AC wasn't working properly. They came out, took the thing out of the wall and ran some test and concluded the unit was "low on freon" and should be chucked. Well after we made a few more subsequent calls including to Friedrich in Texas it turned out the unit needed to be cleaned. We were told to open the thing up and clean the coils. Sure enough the outside face coils were caked with a layer of muck,pet hair and god only knows what else. Once the unit was cleaned and allowed to air dry it workd a treat for several more years only finally dying about a year ago.

We called the aforementioned service company and told them off about what had happened and they refunded to our CC the call out charges and said "sorry". So maybe that is the reason for the "discount" when it came to fixing the Whirlpool.

Being as all this may you can go to Yelp.com or other Internet sites and read comments and or praises about the same repair service. Some persons hate Sears,others love them. Same with Miele and so forth.

IMHO it does help for one to know or become educated on how a particular appliance is supposed to work thus being able to spot when something is wrong.

For instance you see complaints about front loaders "jumping" or shaking too much on spinning. Normally this shouldn't happen and often indicates a problem with the suspension. This could be anything from worn or gone shocks to maybe a spring. One is a common enough repair the other shouldn't be.

Motor brushes as well. People say their front loader has stopped tumbling and or spinning, which can indicate the brushes have gone. Some front loaders chew through brushes like a rabbit through greens, others take ages, however sooner or later if one keeps the machine long enough the job will have to be done.

I think part of the problem with so many appliances today is that they are very complex and often a problem cannot be diagonsed without a visit. Once that is done it may take another visit to install the part or parts if the tech doesn't have them for the first call. Sometimes the best a tech can hope for is to apply Descartes logic (to find out what something is first find out what it is not) to solve a repair issue and even then that may not work.

MieleUSA seems to be big on this. Telephone rep will tell a customer one thing, onsite repair tech says another, between them they try this or that solution and when neither works are left scratching their heads.


Post# 654331 , Reply# 15   1/18/2013 at 20:16 (4,086 days old) by retropia ()        

When our 1998 refrigerator went on the fritz a couple of years ago, we were fortunate to get a repair person out the same day. He was an independent technician who owns his own business, and we've used him before. I think he realized that the freezer contents melting was a big inconvenience for us, and we were grateful to get the repair done the same day we called him.

I remember he had been out of town the entire day at a training seminar, and we called him just after he'd returned to town.

The problem part was the defroster thermostat (if I remember correctly) and he had the part on his truck. The total repair was much less than the cost of a new refrigerator.



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