Thread Number: 44651
What kitchenaid is this?!
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Post# 655390   1/23/2013 at 15:44 (4,107 days old) by ian_p61 (Melbourne Australia)        

Hi all,
I was searching online and I found a kitchenaid dishwasher for sale and I agreed to pick it up in 3 days
I was just wondering if you guys could tell me a few details about it.
The seller didn't say a model but here a picture!
Thanks all





Post# 655391 , Reply# 1   1/23/2013 at 15:48 (4,107 days old) by qsd-dan (West)        

qsd-dan's profile picture
KDS-17

Post# 655424 , Reply# 2   1/23/2013 at 18:52 (4,107 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
KDS-17

combo52's profile picture

This model was built sold in the US from 1971-1974 and then an extra button was added for no heat dry and they continued to build them another two + years. It was one of the most popular KA DWs ever, it was a well built but complicated machine that we made lots of money on repairing. It needed about 20 gallons of 140 Degree F water per cycle and it would do a very good job in well under an hour, I hope you have abundant water and a solar water heater if you plan to run it often.


Post# 655492 , Reply# 3   1/24/2013 at 01:25 (4,107 days old) by ian_p61 (Melbourne Australia)        
Thanks that helps!

How most likely would it have been installed( I have to uninstall it)!
Also does any have a manual or advertisement for the machine- I love those!


Post# 655505 , Reply# 4   1/24/2013 at 05:54 (4,106 days old) by appnut (TX)        

appnut's profile picture

Service Manual and User Guide can be found in the Ephemera download document sectiion for the KD17 series.


Post# 655509 , Reply# 5   1/24/2013 at 06:15 (4,106 days old) by washer111 ()        
20 Gallons of Water

Look out! If the Water Corporation here about this machine, they'll come and give you some sort of "wastage" fine, and remove the machine for your infractions towards Melbourne's disappearing water supply!


Post# 655527 , Reply# 6   1/24/2013 at 09:27 (4,106 days old) by Tomturbomatic (Beltsville, MD)        
Melbourne's disappearing water supply!

I keep wondering how much worse our situation is going to have to become before we are going to seriously explore harvesting icebergs that are calving from glaciers that are melting and raising ocean ocean levels. Puting some sort of sails on them to help guide them to land and then finding a way to transport the ice inland, maybe on some sort of aquaduct system using slightly modified highways, to melt and fill aquifers could buy us time to relocate coastal cities and provide water for irrigation and other uses in the droughts and fierce temperatures that we are already experiencing. Yes, it will cost and probably be a civil engineering project to rival the other great ones like building the pyramids, the great wall of China and the TVA and the Bonneville systems combined, but this is a case of "your money or your life."

PS: This dishwasher does have a shorter China & Crystal cycle with fewer fills. With loads that are not so heavily soiled, I can start my 18 on the Short Wash Cycle which skips the first two fills and one of the three after rinses. Once the filling begins for the main prewash, I push the Normal Cycle button so that the main wash will be the full 7 or 8 minutes and not the shortened version for delicates. You could try that with the 17 for some water savings.

The other thing you could do is save the water from it for other uses. When I had an electric water heater, I would save the rinse water from my KDS14 by pulling the drain hose out of the standpipe and draining it, through a strainer, into the WCI58. It meant that the washer only needed a few more gallons of water for a full load. You could also save the non-detergent laden water and let it cool for use in the garden. The secret to being able to do all of this is not to plumb it to a drain line, but to use a drain hose to a standpipe.


Post# 655530 , Reply# 7   1/24/2013 at 09:37 (4,106 days old) by Kenmore71 (Minneapolis, MN)        

kenmore71's profile picture
The actual water usage as listed in the service manual:

Soak Cycle - 18.9 gallons
Full & Sanicycle - 14.9 gallons
Light soil - 9.5 gallons

Having used one of these machines I can say that if you scrape your dishes with a rubber spatula (but not rinse them) and don't put any truly nasty pots and pans in the machine that the light soil cycle does just fine to get everything clean quickly and efficiently in about 40 minutes!


Post# 655599 , Reply# 8   1/24/2013 at 16:03 (4,106 days old) by aquarius1984 (Planet earth)        
71 litres?

aquarius1984's profile picture
71 LITRES!!!!

To wash a few dishes???? Even at the time these were around,Europe had machines doing EXACTLY the same thing to the same amount of dishes if not more dishes using just 30 litres of water.

Im amazed at such a tragic waste of water for one wash,


Post# 655601 , Reply# 9   1/24/2013 at 16:14 (4,106 days old) by chachp (North Little Rock, AR)        
On a positive note...

chachp's profile picture
I have this model (with the button to turn off heated dry) and love it. It's fast and washes like crazy.

Post# 655605 , Reply# 10   1/24/2013 at 16:33 (4,106 days old) by washer111 ()        
Then Again:

This is still more efficient than hand-washing. Your still only using 1.5L of water per item (based on 50 items), so it would help me at least!

 

Besides, that sort of soils can could chuck in here, and the amount of BobLoads possible, I think they make up for the poor consumption!


Post# 655607 , Reply# 11   1/24/2013 at 16:46 (4,106 days old) by Kenmore71 (Minneapolis, MN)        

kenmore71's profile picture
12 - 15 gallons was pretty common for dishwashers of the later 1960s up through the 1980s. By that time everyone had large hot water heaters and water was cheap in most US cities. In some medium and small sized towns it wasn't even metered!

I will still say that there exists this paradox about water consumption in the US. We keep getting new clothes washers and dishwashers that use less and less water (and often times more electricity, which BTW can use between 1 and 5 gallons of water to produce depnding on location in the US) and yet much of new construction in the US has shower stalls with multiple nozzles and jacuzzi-style bathtubs holding 80 - 100 gallons!


Post# 655618 , Reply# 12   1/24/2013 at 18:23 (4,106 days old) by rapunzel (Sydney)        
"Europe had machines doing EXACTLY the same thing...usin

Not exactly. European machines didn't have self-cleaning filtration systems with built-in food waste disposals. One really didn't need to be too particular about scraping dishes before loading, or cleaning out complicated filter assemblies on a regular basis. In comparison to US machines of that era; European dishwashers were rather aneamic (still are).

"Im amazed at such a tragic waste of water for one wash,..." - that is a matter of personal opinion.



Post# 655620 , Reply# 13   1/24/2013 at 19:09 (4,106 days old) by washer111 ()        
Rapunzel:

You've hit the nail on the head right there! 

US machines were indeed gobbling up food bits, while their EU counterparts where storing them away, for one to deal with at a later date, and flushing "clean" water through that garbage (Yuck!)

 

Though some will question whether some US machines were really "disposing" their waste: With some machines only featuring an asterisk shaped disposer...


Post# 655622 , Reply# 14   1/24/2013 at 19:13 (4,106 days old) by danemodsandy (The Bramford, Apt. 7-E)        
KitchenAid Water Usage:

danemodsandy's profile picture
While it is true that many older series of KitchenAid used a lot of water by today's standards (and even by the standards of their day), there was a reason for it.

Back in the day, KitchenAid was owned by the Hobart Corporation, a company which made commercial dishwashing machines and other restaurant equipment.

That meant they had a reputation to protect. To that end, performance and longevity were consistent goals for KitchenAid at that time. Today, KitchenAid is just one more consumer appliance brand among many, with many products having design origins in common with "lesser" brands. Back then, it really meant something. Their dishwashers washed way better. Their mixers didn't bog down. The products usually required less servicing than the competition.

People who wanted no-excuses performance bought KitchenAid for these reasons. Yes, the products cost more to buy and to operate. But if you wanted the job done without worrying about it, that was acceptable.

And at their most profligate water usage, KitchenAid dishwashers used less water than hand-washing the same amount of dishes. That's what today's governmental poo-bahs forget - dishwashers have always saved water, not wasted it. I get really vexed when I hear that governmental officials want water usage reduced some more on dishwashers - it's going to take a certain amount of water to do the job right no matter how many regulations those asses enact.





Post# 655624 , Reply# 15   1/24/2013 at 19:35 (4,106 days old) by washer111 ()        
Agreed:

It won't be too long, and manufacturers will get sick of hearing 'My dishwasher doesn't clean' or 'It takes too long.' They may then include a "Classic" or Heavy-Normal cycle, using more water (and perhaps recommending its use for high-performance). 

 

Although, I wouldn't be surprised if the government knows Americans may not load their dishwashers fully before running them, and wants to curb water usage for a growing population, to ensure water security. 


Post# 655625 , Reply# 16   1/24/2013 at 19:41 (4,106 days old) by danemodsandy (The Bramford, Apt. 7-E)        
Agreed:

danemodsandy's profile picture
"Americans may not load their dishwashers fully before running them"

True enough. But there are other ways of handling that issue, such as load-sensing capability that wouldn't permit a dishwasher to be run if there weren't a certain amount of dishes present.

Something most definitely needs to be done about today's dishwashers and today's non-phosphated dishwasher detergents. I'm seeing results that are downright hazardous to health.


Post# 655628 , Reply# 17   1/24/2013 at 19:46 (4,106 days old) by appnut (TX)        
load-sensing that wouldn't permit a dishwasher to be run

appnut's profile picture

I'll have a new career.  Being the model for all brands to use as the standard bearer of my BobLoads!!


Post# 655633 , Reply# 18   1/24/2013 at 20:02 (4,106 days old) by danemodsandy (The Bramford, Apt. 7-E)        
Dirty Little Energy Secret:

danemodsandy's profile picture
What no one talks about when resource consumption is under discussion is the incredible wastefulness inherent in cheaply built appliances.

We're all familiar with vintage goods built to an engineering standard, not a price. Good appliances used to be expensive. And what you got for your money was something that lasted a good long time. That not only gave the purchaser value, it also meant it was a long time before that particular household needed to use resources to replace the appliance.

A few months ago, I visited an appliance company's premises with another AW.org member; we were just seeing if anything interesting was being discarded. Nothing of vintage interest was getting tossed, but there were several very late-model refrigerators - stainless-steel, french-door, the whole nine yards. Just like what you see on the showroom floor - only dead as doornails, ready to be scrapped.

I don't care how little juice such refrigerators use - if they're not going to last more than three or four years, they're hugely wasteful. Same for other appliances.

I think we're eventually going to have to mandate longevity if we're really going to save resources. Old refrigerators lasted thirty years - and by rights, today's should too, but they don't. I think we're going to have to penalize manufacturers who keep ripping ores and petrochemicals and precious metals out of the Earth, to squander them on garbage that may have an Energy Star, but which is doomed to early failure.


Post# 655655 , Reply# 19   1/24/2013 at 20:59 (4,106 days old) by rapunzel (Sydney)        
"They may then include a "Classic" or Heavy-Norm

In my opinion all major appliances should have the option of allowing consumers to override eco and pre-set functions. I don't like that new products now only come with what manufacturers decide consumers should have. This trend is about dumbing down products to cater to disinterested and 'lazy' consumers, as well as satisfying government standards to cash in on financial incentives. It is no longer about best performance, flexibility and consumer choice.

Post# 655660 , Reply# 20   1/24/2013 at 21:17 (4,106 days old) by rapunzel (Sydney)        
"Dirty Little Energy Secret:"

Spot on Sandy! Though, with polticians', businesses and economists' thinking still deeply ensconced in the 'continuous growth economy' as well as the current global economic model we will see more of such wastefulness. In another 20 years there will be nothing to distinguish American, Asian and European appliances anymore. The appliance industry sector already has become an oligopoly; very few global manufacturers who basically share the same product platforms and technologies.

We can already see the difference between the general run of the mill big-box store stuff and those product lines that appeal to the snob value of the moneyed middle class.


Post# 655722 , Reply# 21   1/25/2013 at 04:51 (4,105 days old) by chachp (North Little Rock, AR)        
Did I hear mention of a Bobload?

chachp's profile picture
For having a single wash arm on the bottom and the constant rinse on top this machine holds a lot of dishes. With a load in the lower rack like this I can still get stuff to flip over on the top rack. Not too shabby for a machine that's almost 40 years old.

Post# 655723 , Reply# 22   1/25/2013 at 04:52 (4,105 days old) by chachp (North Little Rock, AR)        
..and the top rack

chachp's profile picture
No flipping on this load though.

Post# 655724 , Reply# 23   1/25/2013 at 04:56 (4,105 days old) by chachp (North Little Rock, AR)        
Here is mine..

chachp's profile picture
I have had only a couple of issues with this machine. I have to say that without this site I wouldn't have been able to resolve them though. Thanks to VaricycleVoice (Todd), Stevet (Steve) and Dishwashercrazy (Mike) I suspect this machine will be running for many years to come.

Post# 655734 , Reply# 24   1/25/2013 at 07:14 (4,105 days old) by mitch (Atlanta)        
Beautiful Superba

Chach--that is one fine KA--love the stainless panels!!

Sandy--what you said about the modern appliances is dead on! We were walking through Sears recently and I, of course, had to walk through the appliance section to see what was on the floor. I started looking at all the dishwasher models and opening doors, etc. Have you noticed how the entire door and control panel flexes when you pull on them! All of the WP built units seemed to do this--even the stainless fronted KAs selling for major $$. It was sickening how cheap these felt!

To add to that about fridges, we had to replace a modern Amana, freezer on bottom model, due to the SECOND compressor going out in 7 years. Not to mention various other POS parts going out. It was replaced with a Samsung as at the time Samsung was the only one offering a 5 year warranty on the sealed system and compressor. Meanwhile, the old GE in the basement, bought in 1980 from Rich's, was till chugging along--heck the ice maker was still the original.

It is frustrating!


Post# 655747 , Reply# 25   1/25/2013 at 09:09 (4,105 days old) by Tomturbomatic (Beltsville, MD)        
Their dishwashers washed way better.

Actually, it was not until the 15 series that KA dishwashers were highly rated. In their first testing, the Hotpoint rated higher than the KA. KA machines were said to require more dish preparation than some other more highly rated brands. The company's conservatism kept their performance down. KA was late with a detergent dispenser that allowed a pre-rinse to help get rid of some soil and warm up the load and the machine. KA was very late with putting a heating element in the tank for boosting water temperature during wash. This could be seen in the results. KA based their reputation on being manufacturers of institutional machines, but the fact was that in institutional settings, a large dishwasher is filled with water once per meal service and then the water temperature was kept hot by a steam, gas or electric booster and the overflow from the final 180F rinse back into the rinse tank, from there into the wash tank and from there to the pre-wash tank. Even in the undercounter machine like the UM 4, repeated runnings and an external booster for the 180F rinse water kept the machine hot. Nothing kept the home machine hot so it started each cycle cold and even with 160F water, the wash water was usually 120F or below because KA did not have a detergent dispenser that would allow for a pre-rinse to warm up the machine and give some extra washing time. Consumers' Research Bulletin, I think, measured the wash temp of machines around 1960 and the results showed that machines without a pre-rinse had very low wash water temperatures, with the surprising exception of the Westinghouse with the thermal delay in the timer that guaranteed 140F wash water. Most of the dishwashers of the day were OK for fresh, soft soil on dishes, the KAs included, but most were not what could be called great, especially the KA series before the 15. By the time of the 14s, they began to be noticibly smaller than others in the field and had restrictive loading. I'm not saying that the machines before the 15s are not interesting machines and fun to use, but they were not state of the art in performance.

Post# 655805 , Reply# 26   1/25/2013 at 15:55 (4,105 days old) by danemodsandy (The Bramford, Apt. 7-E)        
Tom:

danemodsandy's profile picture
Thanks for the info.

All my KA experience is with 15-series and later machines, so I did not know this.


Post# 655817 , Reply# 27   1/25/2013 at 16:43 (4,105 days old) by Tomturbomatic (Beltsville, MD)        

Sandy have you ever had the opportunity to listen to a 14 or older run through a cycle? The whooshing sound as the end of the wash arm moves around the tank and across the door is neat.

Post# 655818 , Reply# 28   1/25/2013 at 16:53 (4,105 days old) by danemodsandy (The Bramford, Apt. 7-E)        
Tom:

danemodsandy's profile picture
Many years ago, in Chattanooga, TN, I heard a 10 washing in a posh house on Missionary Ridge, the ritzy residential part of town.

That was the '70s, and I really only remember thinking, "Goodness, that thing's old and noisy!"

My consciousness has since been raised, LOL.


Post# 655837 , Reply# 29   1/25/2013 at 18:27 (4,105 days old) by SQueenJJ ()        

I wish the government would stay out of my Washer, Dishwasher, Refrigerator and not tell me what kind of lightbulb I have to have. We have plenty of water here in Alabama-- not that we should waste it, but when an appliance no longer serves it's intended purpose, what good is it?

Post# 655847 , Reply# 30   1/25/2013 at 19:15 (4,105 days old) by Tomturbomatic (Beltsville, MD)        

Hear! Hear!

Post# 655850 , Reply# 31   1/25/2013 at 19:26 (4,105 days old) by ian_p61 (Melbourne Australia)        

I can't wait!

I am so excited for my KDs-17!
I know it's not particularly water efficient (but I will wash so well)
What about its energy usage? And noise level?
Thanks
All


Post# 655854 , Reply# 32   1/25/2013 at 19:28 (4,105 days old) by ian_p61 (Melbourne Australia)        
Stainless

Also where should I look for stainless doors for the machine??
Thanks again


Post# 655962 , Reply# 33   1/26/2013 at 09:25 (4,104 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
SS Doors For The New KDS-17

combo52's profile picture

I would imagine that you your be more likely to find them in the US as I am sure the great majority of  the KD-16 and 17 series machines were sold here. the SS panels will work from any 16 or 17 DW. You should note that KA sold both brushed chrome and real SS panels for these DWs, they look pretty similar. The BC panels are slightly yellow where as the SS has a slight blueish cast, you can easily tell with a magnet as the SS will not attract a magnet. The SS panels were more expensive and I would consider better as the BC panels would often get pretty rusty on the back and because of KAs silly venting of the hot steamy drying air under the bottom of the upper door panel the bottom edge of the top panel often rusted through at the edge.

 

Two other options for having a SS front would be finding a trim kit for a KA 15,16, or 17 DW and having flat SS cut to fit or you could have the current steel panels repainted at an auto body shop a really nice silver, you may even want to try this yourself.


Post# 656329 , Reply# 34   1/27/2013 at 17:33 (4,103 days old) by ian_p61 (Melbourne Australia)        
I got it!

Hi all,
After what seemed more than 3 days, I picked it up!
Yay will post pics tonight!
Thanks all


Post# 656357 , Reply# 35   1/27/2013 at 18:52 (4,103 days old) by ian_p61 (Melbourne Australia)        
Pics

Looks clean!!!

Post# 656358 , Reply# 36   1/27/2013 at 18:53 (4,103 days old) by ian_p61 (Melbourne Australia)        
More

Don't worry we do have the kick plate!

Post# 656359 , Reply# 37   1/27/2013 at 18:54 (4,103 days old) by ian_p61 (Melbourne Australia)        
....

Model

Post# 656360 , Reply# 38   1/27/2013 at 18:56 (4,103 days old) by ian_p61 (Melbourne Australia)        
One thing:((

Bit worried about the drying part it looks rusty, can I fix it? Can I still run it though a cycle before I do fix it? Before the first cycle what should I do for a prep??

Post# 656390 , Reply# 39   1/27/2013 at 21:23 (4,103 days old) by washer111 ()        
NICE!

Thats a neat looking KA you've got there. Before even attempting to plug in, I believe there may be a flapper for the fan assembly here that blocks water entering there. The rust may indicate it was removed or never installed in the first place. 

 

Next, you'll want to fill the tub with HOT water, up to near the top of the filter plate, you may also wish to add some cooking oil in to help lubricate stuff. This will help you check for leaks. 

After soaking for around an hour, you'll want to PLUG IN the dishwasher (outside or in your garage) and start a cycle, and confirm it is pumping water (you should hear it). I cannot remember the RPM of the spray arm, but it is something like 42rpm. (Count to four = 1RPM and keep a tally for 10 seconds, then times your answer by 6). After confirming that it is actually spraying, hit the "Cancel" button, to check Rapid Advance operation and drainage. Note: You may wish to start the dishwasher and allow it to advance past the filling stage before adding water, incase there is an initial pump out stage before the washing begins

 

Once this completes, I would proceed to connect the machine to any water supply, to test the fill valve. You may wish to add detergent to the right hand cup (with facing machine with door open) and shut that. Add detergent to other cups if running a Soak "N" Scrub cycle or Sani Cycle. All 3 detergent positions are used for Soak and Scrub (someone correct me if I'm wrong). 

Choose between Soak and Scrub or Sani Cycle - bearing in mind neither have a properly heated Main-Wash period, only a small heating element to run and maintain water temperatures during the Wash. Though being an AU model it may very well have a higher powered heater, that will run during the wash for a hotter wash, although this is unlikely. See for yourself, remembering that when you open the door, the cycle selection is reset, so you must reset the cycle you were using. 

Sani Cycle superheats the water in the final rinse. On a cold connection, it will take a LOOONG time... Don't interrupt the machine. 

During the Main-Wash period, (Check indicator light), open the door and observe that the water level is up to around the top of the filter assembly. If not, your water pressure is too low or the fill valve is caked with sediment (Unlikely in Melbourne - Very soft water over there I hear). You should be able to trip the door open switch and start a cycle to observe full fill - it should be around 9 quarts of water. Checking the fill in the Pre-Wash phase is ill-advised, as the machine goes to drain almost straight away after the first fill. 

 

When you have decided the machine is 100% serviceable and you want it in your kitchen (or someplace else as a "play-toy"), you will to remember to give the dishwasher a HOT water connection, with a temperature of at least 140ºF/60ºC. The hotter the better. Up to 158ºF/70ºC would be the most practical and will guarantee superb washing results each and every time, provided that the machine is loaded correctly. It will also save some energy, if you are heating water with a Solar heater, Heat Pump or Gas water heater (esp. on the Sani cycle - where the water is super-heated to around 75º. You don't need to use heated drying on this cycle!)

 

Please remember this is only information I've collected from reading here and the KitchenAid booklet "Secrets of the Inner Circle." Other more knowledgeable members will be able to correct me on anything I've said that is incorrect. Please take care! This is a real treasure you've got - especially in Australia!


Post# 656395 , Reply# 40   1/27/2013 at 21:57 (4,103 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
KDS-17

combo52's profile picture

Cool Find it would be neat to know when it was made, I wounder if your new DW is made much later than they were in the states.

 

There is no earthly reason to ever have the water coming into a home DW at more than 140F and the Sani hi temperature rinse cycle while neat has very little practical use except to make the dishes dry a little faster, so again to protect the DWs life I wouldn't use it much. Excessively hot water shortens the life of almost every important part of a DW, and newer detergents work very well in water as cool as 120-130F.

 

I look forward to hearing more about your new DW, John.


Post# 656396 , Reply# 41   1/27/2013 at 21:59 (4,103 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
KDS-17

combo52's profile picture

Cool Find it would be neat to know when it was made, I wounder if your new DW is made much later than they were in the states.

 

There is no earthly reason to ever have the water coming into a home DW at more than 140F and the Sani hi temperature rinse cycle while neat has very little practical use except to make the dishes dry a little faster, so again to protect the DWs life I wouldn't use it much. Excessively hot water shortens the life of almost every important part of a DW, and newer detergents work very well in water as cool as 120-130F.

 

I look forward to hearing more about your new DW, John.


Post# 656400 , Reply# 42   1/27/2013 at 22:20 (4,103 days old) by washer111 ()        
John:

Bear in mind that in most cases, one cannot control the temperature of their solar heated water, unless a tempering valve has been fitted or the model is a "Split" style with the tank at ground level, that only pumps when needed. 

 

But, up to 60º would be fine. Any more is probalby wasteful


Post# 656445 , Reply# 43   1/28/2013 at 04:31 (4,102 days old) by mielerod69 (Australia)        
Very powerful heater

mielerod69's profile picture
Did anyone notice that the total load is 3.5 kW. So this machine could handle a cold water fill as well as it would heat the water very quickly.

Post# 656449 , Reply# 44   1/28/2013 at 05:15 (4,102 days old) by washer111 ()        
3.5kW

That may be the case on all KA's, or they were just taking precautions. All dishwashers of this era were connected to hot water anyhow. I'd say "TOTAL loading" could be with all features operating at once, or the motor and Sani-Heat etc. Remember the motor is 1/2HP. This being Hobart, the machine would've been built and then some (so electrically it could handle 3.5kW if one chose to install a higher powered element as part of cold connection package?). 

 

The KA book "Secrets of the Inner Circle" reveal that the machine does not heat its own water, except in the Sani cycle during the final rinse (which should be avoided, as John stated to save the machine. KA's booklet also describes this). Any other "Heating" is merely to maintain temperatures in the tub, not to raise them. 


Post# 656459 , Reply# 45   1/28/2013 at 07:07 (4,102 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
KDS-17

combo52's profile picture

The maximum connected load on the models sold in the US was around 1.4 KW so this Australian model must be very different, COOL.

 

On the US machines you had two 700 watt heaters combined into one sheath and a 1/2 HP motor that would drawer about 700 watts and the way the machine was designed was to have only any two of these three big power users on at any time so the machine could be run on a 15 AMP 120 volt line.

 

On my very similar KDS-16 in the mountain house I have it connected to a 20 AMP line so I added a relay to energize the 2nd water heater whenever the timer is calling for water heat from just one heater. Doing this has allowed me to keep the electric water heater set at about 130F and still get great results out of this DW. I have always thought that US DWs should be installed on heavier circuits so they could heat water much faster and get the job done in well less than an hour.


Post# 656467 , Reply# 46   1/28/2013 at 07:37 (4,102 days old) by quincyman (Oldsmar, FL)        
Flipping

I can actually remember plastic cups or containers that flipped over on the top rack of this machine when I was a teenager. Haven't encountered anything that has flipped over in years, and the DW I have now has a spray arm for the top rack. Have always wondered about that.

Post# 656474 , Reply# 47   1/28/2013 at 08:29 (4,102 days old) by chachp (North Little Rock, AR)        
Flipping on the top rack...

chachp's profile picture
....I have just gotten to the point that when I have something in the top rack that I think might flip I anchor it with something else. Ironically, it's not just plastic that gets flipped. I have these really small glass bowls that I use for prep when I am cooking and those will flip. I can't imagine the water pressure going on in there. I have thought about sticking my hand in to feel the intensity but have never done it.

There was refernce earlier to the RPMs and i think my book said it should be around 50. Last time I counted I got 52 so I could have been off by a couple but seemed pretty close to that.

I have a vid that I will post when I figure out how. LOL. I may have to put it on YouTube because I don't know how to post a video here in the forum. Does anyone else know how?



Post# 656475 , Reply# 48   1/28/2013 at 08:38 (4,102 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)        

dadoes's profile picture
 
Videos cannot be posted directly to AW.  They have to be placed on some other hosting source, then linked/embedded in the post.  YouTube is the usual venue for doing that, they provide copy/paste link code.


Post# 656482 , Reply# 49   1/28/2013 at 09:35 (4,102 days old) by chachp (North Little Rock, AR)        
Thank you.

chachp's profile picture
Here is one I made a while back. It's not the best one but you get the idea. I have one that is longer but I have to do some edits to it before I upload.



CLICK HERE TO GO TO chachp's LINK


Post# 656558 , Reply# 50   1/28/2013 at 16:25 (4,102 days old) by washer111 ()        
Love the Sound!

As it starts to get water moving, that "Whoooing!" sound and the pulsing squirting sounds really are neat!


Post# 656600 , Reply# 51   1/28/2013 at 19:16 (4,102 days old) by mielerod69 (Australia)        
3.5 kW

mielerod69's profile picture
Agree with you Combo52. From what you mention if you take the 700 watts away for the motor, then you are left with 2800 watts to play with. If you leave the heating element for the drying at 700 watts, then the heating element in the cabinet would be 2100 watts.
Washer111, yes that not exactly true, as not all elements would be running at once. The max draw during washing and heating would be 2800 watts leaving 700 watts for the drying.


Post# 656627 , Reply# 52   1/28/2013 at 20:44 (4,102 days old) by washer111 ()        
You Are Right:

My only other idea is that the elements were simply made more powerful with the extra voltage to play with. It will be interesting to see if the machine actually heats its own water or not. So I suppose neither of us could be correct yet: Though something tells me it just uses more powerful elements for the conditions. As I'm pretty sure no KitchenAid before the 19 series (The Dreaded series) never used proper delay heating, except for Sani rinses. 


Post# 657937 , Reply# 53   2/3/2013 at 20:48 (4,096 days old) by ian_p61 (Melbourne Australia)        
Hey all

I was just wondering would this part fit my machine?


CLICK HERE TO GO TO ian_p61's LINK on eBay


Post# 657945 , Reply# 54   2/3/2013 at 22:20 (4,096 days old) by stevet (West Melbourne, FL)        
Blower Housing...

The housing in the picture may or may not fit your machine as there were 2 different neck diameters that I know of on these machines so you may want to remove yours and check it and contact the seller. If it is smaller than yours, that is okay as you can install it and then seal it with high temp silcone sealant available at any auto parts store.
If it is larger, and if you're really in a bind to replace it, then you will probably have to make small cuts with a tin snips around the tube that forms the neck and fit it into your machine's opening where the air goes up into the tank.
I have had to do both and was successful at both instances.

Good Luck


Post# 657972 , Reply# 55   2/4/2013 at 05:13 (4,095 days old) by chachp (North Little Rock, AR)        
Water heating...

chachp's profile picture
Based on my expierence with this machine I don't think it will stop to heat the water except for the Sani Rinse. The element does come on while it's washing to maintain the temperature but this model does not stop to heat before it circulates water. That is of course, unless the models made for your area were designed for cold water fills.

Stevet likely knows better but I know mine wouldn't.


Post# 657974 , Reply# 56   2/4/2013 at 05:38 (4,095 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
KDS-17 Blower Housing

combo52's profile picture

I think that the blower housing on the 15-17 machines is longer than the one you found for sale. The newer ones were made of aluminum for the 18 and later models and did not rust. Note the 15-17 KA DWs had an 1100 watt dry heater and the wattage was dropped to 800 watts when the 18s came out.

 

You could probably make the newer aluminum heater housing work either by adding some metal or remounting it, this item does not need to be sealed as to be water tight, just reasonably air tight. Unless your blower housing is completely rusted through I would just clean it of rust and paint it with Hi-Temperature aluminum paint.



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