Thread Number: 46733
I had no idea HE washers worked this terribly...
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Post# 680983   5/25/2013 at 16:36 (3,960 days old) by norgechef (Saint George New Brunswick )        

Watch the video and you will see what I mean, skip to 4:00 minutes to see how its washing!! just the thought of the lack of water makes my skin crawl...imagine if you had one of these and had allergies to detergent or scents! If I had one of these washers I would throw it off a cliff and laugh about it for hours. Im writing Whirlpool about this issue and I think the rest of us on this website should too! and if that doesn't work I guess i'll be writing Energy Star and CEE. Something has got to be done about this, there is no question about it. I know they are just washing machines but everyone who owns a HE washer gets mad about the cleaning results but nobody has ever said anything about it other than maybe a few angry phone calls to Whirlpool. Since most of us here like washers allot I figure we are the people who should be saying something about this even if it is just an angry email, eventually they're going to have to do something about it and every complaint helps.

CLICK HERE TO GO TO norgechef's LINK





Post# 680988 , Reply# 1   5/25/2013 at 17:02 (3,960 days old) by thefixer ()        

It's not the manufacturers, it's the federal government, and it's only going to get worse.

In May 2012, DOE adopted new clothes washer standards based on a 2010 agreement between manufacturers and efficiency proponents. DOE uses new metrics called IMEF (integrated modified energy factor) and IWF (integrated water factor) which add standby and off-mode energy consumption into the formula. The IMEF/IWF standard levels in the 2012 final rule are equivalent to the the MEF/WF levels in the negotiated agreement. Top-loading washers have a two-phase standard with a minimum 1.29 IMEF (correlates to 1.72 MEF) and maximum 8.4 IWF (correlates to 8.0 WF) effective March 2015 and 1.57 IMEF (2.0 MEF) and 6.5 IWF (6.0 WF) effective January 2018. Energy and water savings relative to current standards are about 33% and 19% respectively for the 2018 standard. Front-loading washers standards effective in March 2015 are 1.84 IMEF (2.2 MEF) and 4.7 IWF (4.5 WF) with 15% energy savings and 35% water savings relative to the current standards. According to DOE, the standards will save about 2 quads of energy, 3 trillion gallons of water and about 113 million metric tons of CO2 emissions over 30 years. DOE estimates total net dollar savings for U.S. consumers over that same period will exceed $31 billion. Currently, ENERGY STAR-qualified products must meet a minimum MEF of 2.0 and a maximum WF of 6.0.



Post# 681000 , Reply# 2   5/25/2013 at 18:34 (3,960 days old) by whirlcool (Just North Of Houston, Texas)        

The true teast is to take a shirt or t=shirt out of one of these washers when it is done and plunge and agitate in a bath tub full of fresh clean warm water. How many suds do you see? That's the effectiveness of the rinsing. And for people with skin allergies like me, that would put me over the cliff.

Post# 681005 , Reply# 3   5/25/2013 at 19:16 (3,960 days old) by Yogitunes (New Jersey)        

yogitunes's profile picture
the first ones were not the best, they worked, but needed a little kick......changes are being made and updated to combat these issues....

I have the Cabrio version like this....adding 3 gallons of water makes all the difference in the world.....

for the most part, in the newer machines, more water is being added, a big plus, in both TL and FL HE machines is the addition of the "sprinkler" that makes sure the load is saturated thru-out.....

I would buy this machine again, as long as it has the sprinking option.....Samsung and LG, Whirlpool and others have started to add more water, and a powerwash sprinkler.......much like the often hated Calypso, a constant waterfall, which works like a dream...


CLICK HERE TO GO TO Yogitunes's LINK


Post# 681006 , Reply# 4   5/25/2013 at 19:29 (3,960 days old) by pierreandreply4 (St-Bruno de montarville (province of quebec) canada)        

pierreandreply4's profile picture
or in the case of those that collects vintage washer switch to a vintage washer for the rinse portion of the cycle

Post# 681008 , Reply# 5   5/25/2013 at 19:39 (3,960 days old) by Yogitunes (New Jersey)        

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heres a video by our own Gansky, demonstrating his on the sheets cycle......look to be enough water for good results.....

your mileage may vary.....

I know the Bulky cycle adds water almost to the top......


CLICK HERE TO GO TO Yogitunes's LINK


Post# 681009 , Reply# 6   5/25/2013 at 19:41 (3,960 days old) by Yogitunes (New Jersey)        

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this one is evern better......showing the recirc spray.....using a combination of the two is offering better cleaning and rinsing.....

CLICK HERE TO GO TO Yogitunes's LINK


Post# 681014 , Reply# 7   5/25/2013 at 20:33 (3,960 days old) by appnut (TX)        

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Just as show, one identifies and uses the cycles which use the most water. for my whirlpool front loader I use bulky Items, Allergan, and Jeans. Normal is the cycle used to determine the energy star rating and thus the most stingy in wash water and wash time. I won't use that for my laundry. You have to educate yourself. Not be ignorant.

Post# 681017 , Reply# 8   5/25/2013 at 20:53 (3,960 days old) by peteski50 (New York)        
HE!

peteski50's profile picture
when I worked at PC Richard & Son - we had a lot of returns on these whirlpool maytag. I always advised my customers if they didn't want a FL HE to buy Samsung or LG TL. More water is always better. Also I don't understand how whirlpool says it washes gently - it is obvious the clothes are getting beaten. I now work at home depot and I still encourage people to stay away from these HE TL whirltags. I think recirculating the water helps a lot!
Peter


Post# 681018 , Reply# 9   5/25/2013 at 21:00 (3,960 days old) by norgechef (Saint George New Brunswick )        
Yes but..

The average consumer would think to use the Normal/Regular cycle for most clothes so unless they are washing a comforter or something in the Bulky cycle they wouldn't use the other cycles all that often. I will admit the allergen cycle is a good cycle for people with allergies and I did not know they had Allergen cycles. Still though, they do not use enough water on most cycles. When I watched those videos it made me dislike these washers even more, looking at the tub swinging back and forth like that makes it look so cheap and flimsy to me but then again most consumers don't watch the washer as its washing (that swinging basket would drive me crazy).It seems to perform OK on the sheets cycle but even the sound of it washing does not phase me, I don't care for those direct reversing motors where they continuously stop and reverse to agitate the washer the other way either, I cant see them being very durable. I would never buy one but to each their own I guess. To be honest I wouldn't buy ANY top load washer on the market today and unless parts are discontinued for my norgetag I wont be buying a new washer. I guess If I had to pick one it would most likely be a Speed Queen.

Post# 681020 , Reply# 10   5/25/2013 at 21:02 (3,960 days old) by norgechef (Saint George New Brunswick )        
The only HE washer I would buy

Would be a Samsung or an LG turbo-drum (only top load models)

Post# 681026 , Reply# 11   5/25/2013 at 22:30 (3,960 days old) by golittlesport (California)        

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If you're going to buy a modern washer, I think front load is the way to go...better cleaning, better rinsing, gentler on fabrics

Post# 681065 , Reply# 12   5/26/2013 at 03:58 (3,960 days old) by qualin (Canada)        

You would almost think that HE top loaders were designed to get people to switch over to using front loaders....

Post# 681074 , Reply# 13   5/26/2013 at 07:53 (3,960 days old) by peteski50 (New York)        
HE!

peteski50's profile picture
I personally prefer the FL over these HE TL. But their are many folks that don't want FL. I personally prefer the FL. I like the Samsung's and LG's the best. I don't care for the whirlpool. I think this tumble fresh option that can tumble for 12 hours after the cycle is complete is stupid. If they can do this they can make combos with these machines. I have even discussed this with the wp service rep a few times and he said he took it back to his higher ups and got no intelligent answer. It is sad with all this technology most of these FL should have a dry option. As it is the $ amount is outrageous for all these units. The dryers are even more expensive than the washers. If I was buying a set I would never pay that amount for a dryer. Unless I needed to stack it. They would sell a lot of combos today especially with the space restraints people have. I think they should make them in 110v as well as 220v - so many people do not remove their wash right after it is done - so being they leave clothes in the washer - the clothes can be dry when they come back. It would just have to be explained to customers that they could only wash / dry 1/2 to 2/3 of a load to accomplish this. Being so many folks don't remove clothes immediately and do smaller loads a lot this would work great. Also most of these washers have heaters in them anyway so it would not be hard to make them combos. They can be made with a choice of vented or non vented.
This is just my rant!
Peter





Post# 681075 , Reply# 14   5/26/2013 at 08:02 (3,960 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)        

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The only HE toploader that has been worthy of consideration is the Calypso, IMO.  Dumb-ass consumers are the cause of it's demise moreso that any fault of Whirlpool.


Post# 681080 , Reply# 15   5/26/2013 at 08:34 (3,960 days old) by Yogitunes (New Jersey)        

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AMEN!..DADoES......

not quite vintage yet, but if your gonna have a TL HE washer that truely is "efficient", and "effective"!....Calypso is the only one!.....

Catalyst Soak and Waterfall saturation, true gentle bouncing wash motion, 3-4 rinses, a seperate bleach rinse, spin spray rinsing and a 800 rpm spin, not the highest, but sufficient...

some argue of issues from the first gen Calypso's....its your choice not to purchase one, but that just leaves more for me, and for others who have discovered their true benefits.....that's why I have a set, and a spare!...and parts machine!


Post# 681110 , Reply# 16   5/26/2013 at 11:30 (3,959 days old) by ultramatic52 (Mexico City)        
HE Machines

Before renewing my laundry room I had the white Whirlpool Catalyst washer and its matching dryer which worked flawlessly for 10 years and the first generation of Samsung Frontier FL which also performed more than wonderful (because of space troubles I lend the Whirlpools to a friend and sold the Samsung). I wanted to have gray machines and change from conventional TL to HE TL and the matching FL to have this room with same branded machines. I got the Maytag TOL Bravos washer and matching dryer and waited for results and decide if I would like a Maytag FL, (keeping my Samsung for a while)

WASHER: It was the first generation with DD motor washer (44 lb). I had them for 6 months. I never did huge loads except for the bulky items. Once I did a bigger than usual load (always using the Power Wash cycle) and some clothes came out dry, it never rolled over . You couldnīt give another cycle using the same water as with old TL. As soon as you turned the machine off and on again it drained and then it was ready for the next cycle which crashed me up the wall. It just because a really expensive spinning machine since I washed my normal loads in the Crolls (400 rpm) and spun them in the Maytag before drying. I tryed to wash a full comforter in the bedding cycle once, it filled 3/4 of the huge tub, agitated for 10 min on med-low speed and drained, it didnīt washed anything. I tryed it in every cycle and all of them did the same thing, it started at very good agitating speed and rollover, and after 3 min it lowered the agitation speed except for the bedding and delicate cycle which were med-to very low agitation speed.
DRYER: it worked fine. No drying rack even though it was TOL. "Steam" was just a twice myst throwing while clothes were tumbling.

So I decided to return them and get the LG TOL TL washer and its matching dryer. Iīm really impressed on how excellent they get clothes clean, using a little water, not being hard on clothes, having 6 motions which makes it so pleasant to watch through all the cycle, 18 min final spin at 800 RPM and 1100 for 1 minute at the end. I have tryed all the washing cycles and they perform excellent. Have tryed to wash a comforter any size and excellent performance everytime. I normally use the Normal for everything except the whites which I use the heavy duty cycle for the agitation time which is the longest. Dryer does have real steam production for refreshing clothes and drying rack. I decided to sell my Samsung FL and buy the TOL LG FL washer with its pedestal. This machines are airplanes. I have no complaints except for the washer not only using hot water if selected so I have to turn off the cold line while filling and for the dryer for not having light while the cycle is running. Maybe itīs just here in Mexico cause I know that most of the TOL dryers any brand in the USA have during-cycle light.

I highly recommend this washers and dryer. They are worth every penny. Theyīve been here for 2 years now and havenīt had any problems with them. We are a family of 5, with 2 dogs and 2 cats living inside the house and sleeping with us on the bed. I do 6-7 loads a week 1-2 on the TL, 4-5 on the FL. My parents have King size bed, my brothers and I have full beds with thick comforters each, and this machines process them as if they were tissue towels.


Post# 681123 , Reply# 17   5/26/2013 at 13:49 (3,959 days old) by jmm63 (Denville, NJ)        

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I have a question. What is the purpose of having such a deep wash tub on these top loaders if its only going to fill 1/3 of the way with water? Why not just make it 1/2 the size and fill it all the way?

Post# 681134 , Reply# 18   5/26/2013 at 15:48 (3,959 days old) by Yogitunes (New Jersey)        

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do you learn nothing that I teach you Jim.....SIZE MATTERS!....everyone wants to see a huge drum, not only deep, but width too....and they get the impression of stuffing a king size comforter inside, not that it actually can wash or handle it effectively, but that it fits inside....

and then you get everyone jamming several baskets into one load......but odd enough, no matter how huge, we come back to the large capacity capability of yesteryear....the most you can fit is an 18lb load, and that's even pushing it!


Post# 681138 , Reply# 19   5/26/2013 at 16:37 (3,959 days old) by ultramatic52 (Mexico City)        
Size matters

I can asure you that I have made several huge loads of clothes way far from 18 lb (wash basket filled where the stainless ends), and it has handled them incredibly. My Whirlpool was a 18 lb and could have never handle this seize of loads and getting them clean. Obviously it uses twice the amount of water that it regularly uses. Believe me. Itīs more than great for extra huge loads.

Post# 681149 , Reply# 20   5/26/2013 at 18:08 (3,959 days old) by imperial70 (MA USA)        
I agree with appnut

I find that with my Frigidaire frontloader (square door, deluxe version) that normal is the least used cycle. The sport cycle is utilized for my everyday wear. Uses alternate soak and slow tumbling followed by normal tumbling toward end of wash and rinse cycles. Spin speed is perfect to avoid wrinkling. The thing is to experiment. Just like we all did with our top loaders.

For instance my Old Whirlpool Belt drive with the winged surgilator could wash my suit coats perfectly on knit/delicate cycle where as the direct drive I owned could never do that. (I know that is a bit obvious.) :-)

I think with all of us talking through our experiences that we will get through the learning curve of the HE machines.

I find that balancing the detergent amounts is the hardest part of all. But reading here I learned to make the water "slippery." Produces the best cleaning and rinsing results.

I hope this wasn't a useless mind dump.:-)
otherwise apologies...




Post# 681186 , Reply# 21   5/27/2013 at 03:05 (3,959 days old) by tolivac (greenville nc)        

The agitate action of those Cabrio machines reminds me of the "Forward-Reverse" action of old VitaMix blenders-The Cabrio washer looks like its agitating more like a blender than a washer.Think I will stick with my oldies and use as much water as I want-not some dope politician wants.These energy-water regs should be SCRAPPED and let the decisions be left with the PEOPLE!!!Let the MARKETPLACE decide on these issues.To top it off those newer machines aren't build as well as the older machines and will visit the landfill or scrapper sooner.Keep in mind older machines will still be in use after the new ones have been scrapped-and will these new washers scrap themselves with "Spin-Splode" action?I don't like the lid locks either-what happens if the lid stays locked?Do you get out your big screwdriver to pry it open?

Post# 681212 , Reply# 22   5/27/2013 at 10:46 (3,958 days old) by mark_wpduet (Lexington KY)        
Didn't Whirlpool take away

mark_wpduet's profile picture
the bulky cycle on the latest machines? On the 2013 machines I looked at it's not even available.

Post# 681213 , Reply# 23   5/27/2013 at 11:11 (3,958 days old) by rinso (Meridian Idaho)        

IMHO I really wish Whirlpool would have stayed with the Calypso design and worked all the bugs out. From a purely operational standpoint, I really think they were onto something.

Post# 681231 , Reply# 24   5/27/2013 at 15:23 (3,958 days old) by imperial70 (MA USA)        

I second that humble opinion Rinso. From what I've read on here there are users that have enjoyed their Calypso's.

Speaking of that... wondering how Haier is doing with Maytag's Neptune TL design?


Post# 681250 , Reply# 25   5/27/2013 at 17:24 (3,958 days old) by Yogitunes (New Jersey)        

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too little too late....but not really.....after many complaints, Whirlpool as well as others are changing things around, improvements are on the way, as with anything new on the market, never buy the prototype, give them a few years to work the bugs out, and then purchase the better model...

as I stated before, many TL and FL are adding the sprinkler/waterfalls......it's a definate improvement in washing and rinsing.....wishing mine had this....as for now, the Calypso does a really nice job, if you haven't got a chance to play with one, all I ask is you try it once, it may change your mind...

this video link is courtesy of our own DADoES....which shows the Calypso in action thru a whole cycle....don't be fooled, those clothes are circulating and rolling over, Glen should have thrown in a black sock just to show its movement...but pay attention to how much water is really used, the clothes get saturated, and the fill continues for any size load, until the waterfall is established....usually about 3 gallons...talk about efficient and effective!......not to mention spin sprays....


CLICK HERE TO GO TO Yogitunes's LINK



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