Thread Number: 47152
Advice on washer/dryer/laundry room
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Post# 685217   6/23/2013 at 13:20 (3,931 days old) by richardtb ()        

I have been reading the posts about washer and driers on the site, but I am still not sure what combination I should get.

We are doing a major remodel on a one story condominium in a high rise. So, we are going to build the laundry room from scratch, including picking a new floor. We are not all that concerned on water costs since we pay for those as part of our condominium fee. We are a family of three so we don’t need to wash all that many clothes.

What we are looking for is for a side to side washer and drier that will last a long time. The reason for this is that we will make sure that the contractors installs it properly and that the washer and drier are of the right fit for the laundry room, and we don’t want to have to redo these things for a long time. So, if the most expensive washing machine is going to last longer, that is an investment we are willing to make. Of course, given that we are in a high rise,
having a leak would be really bad. So, that is also something we would want to avoid!

Any suggestions?





Post# 685221 , Reply# 1   6/23/2013 at 13:41 (3,931 days old) by Yogitunes (New Jersey)        

yogitunes's profile picture
well, for longevity in a new machine....the best bet for the money is a Speed Queen, and it doesn't matter if you go front load, or top load....there are a few models to choose from, and the FL pair will allow you to stack, or even mount on pedestals.....

one main thing for a second story install, is to include a drain pan that the washer will sit in, to contain any leaks or floods, from the machine....although keep aware of hoses or pipes leaking it will not prevent.....as a standard install, make sure the water spigots are within easy reach to turn off when not in use.....

and keep in mind, dryer venting, and how far it will have to travel......longer distances and in unheated areas can cause longer dry times, and problems down the road....

although water may not be a concern, what about electric, and or the thought of a gas dryer?.......FLers usually provide a higher spin speed, which can use less heated water, detergent, and energy, and reduce drying times....

one thing I hate about closed areas of a laundry, or places like a condo or small home, is what you don't realize, is that the dryer is sucking out your A/C or heated air.......sometimes you can luck out and have it in a small room that can be closed off, with a window that will allow the exchange of air....just a thought!


Post# 685227 , Reply# 2   6/23/2013 at 13:53 (3,931 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)        

dadoes's profile picture
 
The only way a pan under a washer is really effective is it it has a plumbed drain.  Otherwise, the pan will overflow when it fills up in a serious machine leak and you're back at square-one.  A non-plumbed pan is OK if the homeowner keeps active watch on the machine during operation so as to catch a flood before it fills the pan, AND shuts off the water supply between washdays to avoid floods in the night or homeowner absence if the water valves go wrong.


Post# 685228 , Reply# 3   6/23/2013 at 13:58 (3,931 days old) by richardtb ()        
Thanks Yogitunes

The dryer has to be electric, because of condominium rules.

No, the laundry room will not be able to be located next to any windows.

When I was reading through posts, someone mentioned that Speed Queen washers were difficult to service. Is that true for both FL and TL?


Post# 685232 , Reply# 4   6/23/2013 at 14:06 (3,931 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        
SpeedQueen or...

MIELE!
Miele build the first Automaic washer here in Germany. They offer genius quality, perfect wash and rinse results, are the gentelest washers and dryers on the market (you can wash roses WITHOUT ANY DAMAGE in there), are really quiet, have a professional FU-Motor, last a long time (you can extend the waranty up to 5 years with Miele sevice what means best service), and, if the water level in the rinses is to low or the spinspeed is to slow, just ask Miele, they can reprogramm them as you want them to do. If that all quality is still not enough, you can buy little giant machines which are indeed professional machines which offer you more features and even stronger built quality. And the best thing: Miele offers you parts for AT LEAST 20 years. No joke, Miele still services machines produced 30 years ago.


Post# 685233 , Reply# 5   6/23/2013 at 14:14 (3,931 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        
Forgot to add...

Mieles have a patented WPS (Water Proof System), including a system that stops filling and a built water pan with a floating sensor which stops the machine from filling if any interior leakage has come up. And, if there is no venting, Miele offers condensing dryers which do not need a venting at all :)

Post# 685234 , Reply# 6   6/23/2013 at 14:23 (3,931 days old) by richardtb ()        
Miele

Thanks but I should have specified that I live in the US. Miele washer and driers are not longer sold in the US. I just double checked with their web site.

Post# 685235 , Reply# 7   6/23/2013 at 14:25 (3,931 days old) by richardtb ()        
Ignore previous message about Miele

Miele are still sold in the US. I am not sure why I got confused.

Post# 685237 , Reply# 8   6/23/2013 at 14:34 (3,931 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        

The big capacity ones are not longer sold. But indeed, they are not that often sold. But, i think, the prices are incedible high. Like a little giant coasts 2000$+, not including the drier. But, on the other hand, these little giants have a 5000 wats heater, offer boilwashing (195°F,90°C), hardend steel bearings, 4 130 Newton hydrulic dampers (2 60-100 N are standard) and offer cycle times of an hour within heating up the water fom 20°C to 60°C. The water-temp is ensured for 10min at least, 30min on higenic setting. But the household standard ones are still incedible reliable,


Post# 685244 , Reply# 9   6/23/2013 at 15:59 (3,931 days old) by Yogitunes (New Jersey)        

yogitunes's profile picture
sorry....my bad....and assumed....that for the most part, anyone installing a pan would have it hooked to a drain system.....that should be a no brainer....

the best I ever had installed in an apartment was for a stacked set up, using an actual shower pan, a little higher lift to get the machine in place, but the center full size drain was a great option compared to the 3/4"-1" drain on the standard pans......the whole enclosure was from a shower install design, with the outlet waterproofed, even if the hose did break, it was fully contained...

SQ's can be serviced from the front.....another reason they are used in coin laundries...

shop around...compare models....let us know how you make out


Post# 685251 , Reply# 10   6/23/2013 at 17:13 (3,931 days old) by richardtb ()        
SQ

According to this site the SQ FL seems to have quite a bit of vibration
www.vibrationsolution.com/blog/ta...

Should that make me concerned about the long term reliability of their FL models?


Post# 685333 , Reply# 11   6/24/2013 at 07:37 (3,930 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
Best Long Term Laundry Appliances [ for use in the US ]

combo52's profile picture

Speed Queen either TL or FL washer are great, however if I could only have one washer I would go with the FL machine.

 

I have had the SQ FL for about eight years now with no problems, it is a no nonsense machine that does exactly what you want-tell it to do. With an estimated life approaching 50 years in normal home use [ and 21/2 times longer than even Mieles life expectancy ] it would be hard to ever really wear one of these washers out.

 

SQ FL machines DO have vibration issues when installed on spongy wooden floors, as a dealer for SQ [ and many other brands ] I try not to sell SQ FL washes for installation on weak flooring, but we have never had an issue when installed on concrete floors [ noise is not bad either].

 

 

Mieles are very well built sophisticated washers and dryers but, Service is a major issue in this country, even here in the Washington DC area you ave a difficult time getting them fixed and I have never seen any data to prove they are all that reliable. Also judging from the number that I see trashed every year people are either having problems or are just tired of paying outrageous repair bills and dealing with the two people in the whole area that will even look at the machine.

 

Even if one wanted a Miele washer don't waste your time and money on the matching dryer. No appliance maker anywhere in the world makes better dryer than what is available here in the US. A Miele dryer is 1/2 the size and one 1/2 the heating wattage of a US electric dryer, there is nothing they can do to make up for their small size and low powered heaters that makes them even close to a great dryer.


Post# 685334 , Reply# 12   6/24/2013 at 08:28 (3,930 days old) by richardtb ()        
Laundry room floor

Thanks combo52. At this stage I can pick the floor for the laundry room. Are you suggesting that concrete is best, or would tile be just as good?

Post# 685346 , Reply# 13   6/24/2013 at 10:21 (3,930 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
Best Long Term Laundry Appliances [ for use in the US ]

combo52's profile picture

Only the sub-floor needs to be concrete, it should not matter much what type of finished floor you want on top.


Post# 685365 , Reply# 14   6/24/2013 at 13:02 (3,930 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        

How can you say that todays SQ-washers last 50 years? And why have SQ a 21/2 times higher life expectancy? Mieles are proofed to run 10 years without failure. And, by the way, its still more effective using low heat and high airflow on drying clotes. Guess you never dried in a Miele dryer? And there is no matter on the wattage of the heater. These dryers take an hour for drying as these SQ will do, to. And, as said, i think there was an issue of venting. And SQ doesn't offer any condensor dryer. How can you proof SQ lasting 50 years?
By the way, one question at all, how are the tubs on a SQ frers are supported? 4 or 2 absorbers? 4 or 2 springs?


Post# 685385 , Reply# 15   6/24/2013 at 14:32 (3,930 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA)        
Dryers

mrb627's profile picture
Funny, I have both a SQ dryer and a Miele and I have to agree, there is no comparison. The SQ dryer wins, hands down! End of Story. The Miele runs cooler and may be more efficient, but it has difficulty completing a cycle in an hour. I have had a standard load of towels take as much as two hours to dry in the Miele. The same load of towels would take no more than 50 minutes in the Speed Queen. Even though the SQ FL washer doesn't reach the spin speed of the Miele washer...

Malcolm


Post# 685387 , Reply# 16   6/24/2013 at 14:38 (3,930 days old) by richardtb ()        
Contractor buying washer/dryer

Maybe this is a bit off the topic for the forum, but I will give it a try! Our architect told us that we should have have our general contractor buy and install all the appliances (we are getting all new appliances). This way we make sure that everything is working fine and is installed correctly. Does anyone have any opinions of whether this is a good idea or not?

Post# 685388 , Reply# 17   6/24/2013 at 14:40 (3,930 days old) by pierreandreply4 (St-Bruno de montarville (province of quebec) canada)        

pierreandreply4's profile picture
i think the choice of the dryer also tempends on the selected temp of the dryer or where the dryer is located i have a 2004 whirlpool duet dryer a normal load takes about 45 minutes on high heat time dry cycle as my dryer is located near an outside wall witch can take time for the dryer to heat if cold air comes in from the dryer vent

Post# 685390 , Reply# 18   6/24/2013 at 14:41 (3,930 days old) by pierreandreply4 (St-Bruno de montarville (province of quebec) canada)        

pierreandreply4's profile picture
i would say its a good idea but you need to make sure the washer plumbing do not leak after

Post# 685418 , Reply# 19   6/24/2013 at 17:38 (3,930 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
Two and a Half times longer life

combo52's profile picture

I am only going by what each manufacturer claims, Miele often makes the claim that their washers can last 10,000 loads. SQ factory representatives have repeatedly told us that their FL washers are designed to be structurally sound for around 25,000 loads, at eight loads a week that is well over 50 years.


Post# 685423 , Reply# 20   6/24/2013 at 17:43 (3,930 days old) by Yogitunes (New Jersey)        
Keep your ears and eyes open!

yogitunes's profile picture
well....a few things to consider with a contractor.....

usually they install the bottom of the line cheapest appliance there is.....which usually needs replacing within a few years.....

and they also charge a certain percent higher cost for the appliance than if you got it yourself......


now if you can work a deal that he purchases the appliance you want, at the same cost it would be for you, that may be a different story...


this also falls true for your heating/air and water heater among other things....if he is doing several apts in your complex, guaranteed their all the same model that he got as a package discount.....most likey wont be TOL....if it is, you will probably pay 2 to 3 times what it really cost....


I have yet to see any contractor install any TOL appliance.....not without a substantial increase in price....

keep your eyes peeled.....I have yet to see a contractor, as a standard, install anything better than what he would put in his own house......not that all are bad guys, just stay on your toes, and check things out and ask questions....


Post# 685424 , Reply# 21   6/24/2013 at 17:46 (3,930 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie)        

frigilux's profile picture
Cheapest flood/leak insurance: Have your plumber/contractor install a short-throw, single lever water shut-off valve for your washer. You can then shut off the water at the end of wash day. I have two old-fashioned faucets (one for the hot water hose to the washer, the other one for cold) that are easily reached, so I shut off the water when I've finished my last load of the day. You'll never have to worry about burst hoses causing a flood. As I said, it's the cheapest insurance money can buy.

Good luck with your remodel, and we love photos here, so if you think of it, take one of your laundry room when it's all set up and post it here!

Calling John (combo52): I don't know if I've described the water valve shut-off thing accurately. Is there a more common name for the device I'm talking about?


Post# 685435 , Reply# 22   6/24/2013 at 18:56 (3,930 days old) by laundromat (Hilo, Hawaii)        

laundromat's profile picture
I have two different Whirlpool Duet sets with risers.One Seth is new (2011) and the other is from 2004.They are in pristine condition and are used daily.I also have an LG MEGA CAPACITY artIst are stacked.however they are wider (29.5")but they have a cool recirculating spray that is located on either side of the interior blot.Then,at the very center of the upper boot,there's a jet spray for the rinse.LG has earned high recommendations they have been listed as having fewecasesr repairs.in their washers, dryers according to CT.Net mega capacity pair has a 5.1 cut ft capacity and easily washes my king size down comforter,bedspread,skirt,flat and fitted. Sheets,bedliner and four pillow cases.yesterday,I washed there seven by four feet hall runners.I used the sanitize cycle,Gain
ND Clorox got everything came out clean as new and look great.I can was large area rugs too.We have there right ft by two ft runners in the hallway.Even though they're bulky and have a sort of burlap type fabric.They washed up great using the Sanitary cycle.




Post# 685444 , Reply# 23   6/24/2013 at 19:52 (3,930 days old) by richardtb ()        
Thanks for all the good suggestions

Thanks for all the good suggestions, but it will take a long time for the job
to be completed and pictures to be posted. It needs condominium board approval (condominium sends it out to an outside architecture firm to check the design), city approval (which usually rejects the designs a couple of times),..., so it will probably take another 8 months. :(


Post# 685448 , Reply# 24   6/24/2013 at 19:57 (3,930 days old) by richardtb ()        
Subfloor

The sub floor has to be wood. So, does this mean that I should be sticking to at TL washer? Or can I get FL and have it bolted to the floor?

Post# 685506 , Reply# 25   6/25/2013 at 05:10 (3,929 days old) by qualin (Canada)        

Richard,

A top loading washer would provide less vibration and won't shake your flooring as much.

Other FL washers have a setting to allow for wooden floors by lowering the spin speed or doing more redistribution cycles to provide for less vibration.

I'd say that a SQ Top loading machine would be your best bet in your situation.

If water use is a serious concern, you'd be better off with a smaller European style front loader machine, such as a Miele or an Asko, with the downside that you'll have less of a load capacity.


Post# 685532 , Reply# 26   6/25/2013 at 08:55 (3,929 days old) by richardtb ()        
Summary of suggestions

Since the price of water is not a concern for me, it sounds like the way I should go is a Speed Queen TL and get a single lever water shut-off valve for your washer.

Post# 685534 , Reply# 27   6/25/2013 at 09:35 (3,929 days old) by richardtb ()        
Size of Speed Queen

My wife just noticed that all the TL washer is only 3.3 cubic feet, so we would not be able to wash comforters in it. So, that suggests either taking comforters to the laundry mat or going for the Miele?

Post# 685545 , Reply# 28   6/25/2013 at 10:38 (3,929 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
Preventing Water Damage From Washer Problems

combo52's profile picture

Hi Eugene, having a quick and convenient way to shut off the water supply is always a good thing to have, I am not sure that there is a general name for that type of shut -off valve but you described it well, however in my experience turning off the water when you are finished using a washer will at best only eliminate less than 25% of the water damage caused by automatic washers. Inlet hoses are of such good quality nowadays that burst hoses are very rare and of coerce if you have a high chance of damage from a leak I would get premium hoses [ without the troublesome built-in shut off valves ]. The most likely time an inlet hose ever bursts in when the washer is in use, from vibration of the washer, the surges caused from inlet valves opening and closing and from the temperature changes the hoses experience when very hot or even cold pass through them.

 

The washer itself is going to account for 90% of leaks and floods, not to even mention the possibility of the stand-pipe backing up.

By far the best way to build a flood safe laundry room is a waterproof floor slopped to a decent floor drain. It is very much like dryer fires the best way to avoid serious damage from a dryer fire is a sprinkler system in the laundry room, no amount of dryer cleaning and proper use of a clothes dryer will guarantee that you will never have a fire.


Post# 685548 , Reply# 29   6/25/2013 at 10:59 (3,929 days old) by richardtb ()        
Thanks combo52

Thank you for the clarifications, they are very helpful.

Post# 685550 , Reply# 30   6/25/2013 at 11:05 (3,929 days old) by PassatDoc (Orange County, California)        

1. Be certain your supply hoses are woven steel, rather than rubber. Sometimes leaks occur in the hoses, not in the machine itself, and a plumbed drip pan can save you from both types of catastrophes. I have friends in a $1 million home whose upstairs floors were ruined by a leak from an upstairs laundry room which had an UNPLUMBED pan, unable to catch all the water that leaked (and even if it does, how do you deal with the water in the pan with no drain, other than with buckets??).

2. I have a Frigidaire FL model 2140, bought 3/2006 and running strong--with no repairs or service calls ever. I do not use liquid bleach, and always leave the door ajar and wipe the gasket seal dry with a hand towel. I also descale with citric acid on a quarterly basis. I'm sure one day the cheap aluminum spider bracket will break and then I'll need a new one, but for now I'm ok. It has a 3.5 cu ft basket (close to the max size offered in 2006, which was 3.7 on Whirlpool Duets, but small by today's standards). I can wash a full/queen comforter but not a king comforter. So once a year I trudge down to the laundromat and run two loads in their Milnor "triple load machines", one comforter per machine. Their dryers get the comforters dry in 30 minutes, and I always use duvet covers so that the comforters need cleaning once a year maximum. You may have to do the same without a FL---and I understand since this is not a first floor installation, there are vibration reasons to chose a TL and not a FL.

3. If you do choose a FL, be sure there is space to leave the door permanently ajar. Some machines now have a retractable bracket (supposedly child proof) which holds the door open a few inches without allowing it to swing freely, which is a good space saver in tight applications. I believe some Frigidaire models now have this feature. Also, you didn't mention the age of your child (you mentioned a family of three) but if you have a young child, you need to be able to secure your laundry room if there is a FL. They can be deadly attractions to young children.


Post# 685567 , Reply# 31   6/25/2013 at 12:53 (3,929 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        

Ok, Mieles capacity is not more then the 3.3 cu ft, maybe even less. And on wooden flors, if you choose a FL, really, get a Miele. I agree, SQ is a better choice for US style washing. As Miele doesn't offer any TLs, SQ is a better choice in. But how about venting the dryer? Will there be a proper, short and mostly straight vent for the dryer?

Post# 685579 , Reply# 32   6/25/2013 at 13:56 (3,929 days old) by richardtb ()        
Miele/ venting dryer

I looked at the size of the Miele and they are even smaller, for some reason I thought I had read that they made a model that was 4 cu. ft., but I guess I was wrong.

Your question by assumes way more technical knowledge than I have. Anything that I should ask our engineer to do about the venting of the laundry room?


Post# 685582 , Reply# 33   6/25/2013 at 14:06 (3,929 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        
Yes,..

As you know, your vented dryer needs a vent to the outside. The question is: How long is it and how many bows does it have? Because if there are to much bows and/or the way of the vent is to long, your new vented dryer cant vent the moistured, warm air which will give you longer drying times, higher energy usage and (worest case) moisture floating back into your laundry room.
Miele produced 4cuft washers a few years ago, but these were stopped.
How big is a king/queen size comforter in inches or meters? Here in Germany, we have 135cm*200cm and 155*220cm comforters and they fit right into a Miele washer of this size and are washed. With a 3.3 cuft frontload washer, these shpildn't be a problem at all as these machines are round about 20l bigger on drum volume.


Post# 685583 , Reply# 34   6/25/2013 at 14:06 (3,929 days old) by kb0nes (Burnsville, MN)        
Braided stainless vs Rubber hoses

kb0nes's profile picture

Don't assume that just because a hose is wrapped in metal braid that its automatically better then a rubber hose. Its akin to the idea that any modern appliance faced in stainless is better then whatever appliance it replaced. A low cost poorly assembled hose "prettied up" with stainless braid is still a cheap hose.

A high quality rubber hose can work fine for many years. I'd take a rubber hose with the word Gates on it over a stainless hose with the word China on it any day. How often does a hose burst (or get cut) in the middle of the run? Most failures I have seen are at the ends, it's really more about the quality components and assembly.

This reminds me of the pretty gold colored drill bits you buy at the big box stores. They tout the Titanium Nitride coating and how it makes the drill last 50x longer. But its a very thin layer of TiN and about all it does is prevent rusting. The various vapor deposited oxide coatings do offer big advantages on quality cutting tools, but on the cheap drills its just window dressing, as it the stainless braid on a cheap hose. Cosmetics sell to those that don't pay attention.

Pick a good hose (one the manufacture was proud enough to put their name on it!), install it correctly and inspect it once and again and all will be well. For extra insurance turn off the water supply while away.


Post# 685590 , Reply# 35   6/25/2013 at 14:47 (3,929 days old) by richardtb ()        
Answer to henene4

The vent would probably have to go 16 ft to get to the edge of the building. I am not sure what "bows" are.

We live in Houston, Texas which tends to be very hot and humid.

The size of our bed is 193cm by 213 (so called "California king").


Post# 685593 , Reply# 36   6/25/2013 at 15:06 (3,929 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)        

dadoes's profile picture
 
16' is not the best, but workable for a straight run (4" solid-flue ducting, not "accordion").  A bow is a bend or angle or turn in the ducting, 90° or whatever.  Every bend reduces the effective air velocity and cuts the maximum-allowable length accordingly.  The dryer's installation instruction should outline details for maximum length per the number of bends.

Ideal ducting is placing the dryer at an exterior wall for straight-through access to the outside.


Post# 685594 , Reply# 37   6/25/2013 at 15:11 (3,929 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        

Checked that out. The manual of a SpeedQueen dryer says up to 6,7 meters (22 feet) are possible on a vent 4 times 90°-angeled.

Post# 685596 , Reply# 38   6/25/2013 at 15:15 (3,929 days old) by golittlesport (California)        

golittlesport's profile picture
There are safety hoses you can get that supposedly stop the water flow if it bursts and senses full water pressure going through. I put these on my washer in a second floor laundry room. I did once have the drain hose work its way out of the standpipe and make a mess. The pan with drain under the machine didn't help in that case. I realized (duh) that the drain pan will only help if the machine itself overflows, which is much less likely to happen than input or output hose problems. The drain hose is now tie-wrapped to the water spigot and also duct taped to the standpipe. It ain't going nowhere!! Hopefully I'll never find out if those input safety hoses really work or not. They do make me feel safe. I always turn water off after use - ours has a single lever that controls both hot and cold.

Post# 685624 , Reply# 39   6/25/2013 at 18:52 (3,929 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
Heavy Duty Inlet Hoses For AWs

combo52's profile picture

I see little advantage in SS braided hose coverings, the part that contains the pressurized water is still rubber and can fail.

Whirlpool does not recommend SS covered hoses because they can conduct electricity heat up and melt the inner rubber and FLOOD, they can do the same thing from a lighting strike surging through your homes metal water pipes. I would consider SS covered hoses only if you have a high likelihood of having rodents in your home that might chew through regular hoses.

 

Jim, you should be using liquid chlorine bleach occasionally as this will protect the aluminum spider from a build-up of crap that will allow it to corrode to the point that it breaks. We see broken spiders in the smaller door Frigidaire s every week, but the next generation Frigidaire s have not as many problems with broken spiders.

 

I HAVE NEVER SEEN A BROKEN SPIDER ON A FL WASHER WHERE LCB WAS FREQUENTLY USED.

 

Children are more likely to climb into a dryer than a FL washer, so I would not use that as a reason not to get a FL washer.


Post# 685699 , Reply# 40   6/26/2013 at 02:21 (3,929 days old) by mrx ()        

Can't you get something like AquaStop for the hoses?

Our Bosch and Siemens dishwasher and washing machine both have AquaStop valves.

Basically, there's a box with the solinoid valves inside it at the end of the hose and a tube which includes the rubber hose and an electric cable to activate the valve.

It means that the rubber hose is connected to an open valve in the washing machine and never experiences the full pressure of having to hold back the water mains pressure.

The high pressure (non-flowing) mains is held back by copper piping only. So, the rubber tubing only ever gets exposed to flowing water, rather than the extreme static pressure of the mains.

It also means when the valve is closed and the machine's not filling, the water is shut off at the tap on the wall, and not several feet away inside the machine itself.

These machines also all incorporate a float switch in the base which activates the drain pump should the machine fail with the valves open and overfill.


Post# 685701 , Reply# 41   6/26/2013 at 04:26 (3,928 days old) by dj-gabriele ()        
Can't you get something like AquaStop for the hoses?

Very well said!
Now here most of the MOL and TOL machines have it!
Even some of the BOL are starting to adopt waterstop systems!


Post# 685720 , Reply# 42   6/26/2013 at 06:50 (3,928 days old) by vacbear58 (Sutton In Ashfield, East Midlands, UK)        
Flooring

vacbear58's profile picture
With all this debate about hoses, we seem to have left the issue of the floor to one side .....

When you say that you are a one storey condo, do you mean that you are on one level? or do you have two levels? If one level, even if the visible floor is wooden suspended, surely there will be a concrete sub-floor under that? If so it is likely that you will have little problems with vibration for the joists (what the floor boards rest on) will either be bedded in/resting on the concrete or will be close enough that additional support can easily be inserted between the base of the joist and concrete sub-floor.

If you have an upper level, or no sub floor it is still possible to fit in a front loader on a suspended floor as I have done in my current home and have also done previously - I would do this anywhere where a front loader is on a suspended floor, even if there is a concrete sub floor.

You will need to place a thick piece of wood under the machines so that the load is spread as widely as possible over the floor area - in my case I used an offcut of a counter top which is 4cm thick - in this way the load is not confined to the small area of each of the feet of the machine.

In my case the floor under my (FL) washing machine is only "tied" directly into the wall on the right hand side, on the left there is a stud wall with the turn of the stairs and landing on the other. It has been this way for 10 years no with no sign of problems, and there is a wall mounted display cabinet on the other side of the wall from the washer with no "creep" of the contents. There is only occasional vibration from unbalanced loads going into the spin, but not at any other time. I will add that making sure the machine is level on the floor side to side and front to back is vital.

As I am typing this it occurred to me that perhaps a wet room type scenario might be worth considering so that you have a drain in the floor. In this case no matter what type of flood you would have it should drain away no problem - assuming the "wet room" floor was properly installed in the first place. This would also make pulling the machines out for service access and even cleaning much easier than if they were sitting in a "pan". Just a thought.

I really do not know that much about US machines but it seems to me from what I have read here that Speed Queen machines are highly regarded and in your situation would be my choice over a Miele for a long term solution to your query and a front loader should be possible as well.

Good luck with your project

Al


Post# 685729 , Reply# 43   6/26/2013 at 07:43 (3,928 days old) by ovrphil (N.Atlanta / Georgia )        

ovrphil's profile picture
Richardtb: you have enough good info here. After having two homes built, and adding my own cabinets and making a pantry within both homes laundry rooms, I can say that, if you're building a laundry room and space isn't an issue, plan on giving yourselves some extra width from the face of the w&d's to the adjacent facing wall. I'm sure you've sketched out some dimensional ideas...not sure what your present layout will allow...but I found that the standard plumbing washer outlet boxes attached to the studs doesn't allow a flusher mount of the washer AND there's a solution that can be accomplished by the architect or, if you look around, yourself, possibly. These are prefab boxes that are tall and are inset into the stud walls, enabling both hoses and vents to reduce protrusion and allow a more flusher mount of the washer and dryer.

If you're putting a counter over the washer and dryer, it doesn't matter...but the 3"or more of space that hoses and possibly, a dryer vent can absorb, MIGHT be a consideration for extending the room size. I /we grew sensitive to that 3-4" loss, especially with front loaders.

Many exceptions are possible - so if my ideas don't apply - either way - hope your project is fun and meets all your needs. Have a good time with it!


Post# 685740 , Reply# 44   6/26/2013 at 09:03 (3,928 days old) by richardtb ()        
Answer to vacbear58 and ovrphil

By one story condo, I meant, it is in a high rise, and the entire unit is on one story.

The whole unit is 1720sq ft., so space is an issue! So ovrphil suggestion is helpful.

In the high rise, all the utilities run underneath the floor [plumbing, electrical run underneath the entire condominium, this is why I can put the laundry room anyplace I want]. So, there is a concrete subfloor, but below the utilities.

I am really confused by the suggestion of getting a "thick piece of wood under the machines so that the load is spread as widely as possible over the floor area"
Wouldn't that be the same thing as having the washer on top of hardwood floor?

Incidentally, part of the reason why I originally posted on automaticwasher.org is
that in my old house we bought at Bosch FL, and we were never able to fully stabilize it. We now have in storage if anyone is interested in buying it! :)


Post# 685743 , Reply# 45   6/26/2013 at 09:22 (3,928 days old) by pierreandreply4 (St-Bruno de montarville (province of quebec) canada)        

pierreandreply4's profile picture
have you look into this whirlpool washer top load set or consider buying a vintage washer dryer set with leveling feet that could keep the washer in place? here is a pic of the whirlpool topload washer its the new belt drive model from whirlpool with agitator with the matching dryer.

Post# 685751 , Reply# 46   6/26/2013 at 10:15 (3,928 days old) by richardtb ()        
Follow up to vacbear58

My wife found this article that helps a bit in understanding the suggestion by vacbear58
articles.washingtonpost.com/2012-...


Post# 685784 , Reply# 47   6/26/2013 at 13:24 (3,928 days old) by vacbear58 (Sutton In Ashfield, East Midlands, UK)        
Floor

vacbear58's profile picture
Richard

Your wife gets the prize, that is exactly what I was getting at.

In your case I would do what we say "belt and braces" (suspenders to you) and insert wood fillers between the base of the joists and the sub-floor. You do not need to do the whole area, just under where the washer and dryer will be. Nor do you need necessarily to do the whole joist but short pieces which can be inserted around the utilities. This should be reasonably simple and inexpensive to do.

I do think it is still wise to put a board under the washer and drier to help spread the load across the joists. In a way its like a stiletto heel, if you imagine the size of the individual feet of the washer sitting directly on the floor bearing the weight of the machine - the load is concentrated in four, very small areas. Using the wood (and I would use thicker myself but if you can brace the joists to the floor that will be a big help) helps spread that same load over a much larger area.

Below is a picture of how my machine is set up (dryer is stacked on top of the washer and my washer spins at a max of 1400rpm) - the floor covering is tile effect laminate over a suspended floor - I hope this helps.

Al


Post# 685798 , Reply# 48   6/26/2013 at 14:19 (3,928 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        

And i guess its a MIELE, right??? The suspensions on these are as in the SQ quite good and catch a lot of vibration.

Post# 686885 , Reply# 49   7/2/2013 at 15:24 (3,922 days old) by richardtb ()        
Visited speed queen dealer

A visited the only place in town that sells speed queens. He warned us that because of federal mandates machine had to be discontinued in 5 years, and so he is concerned about whether we are going to be able to get parts after that.

He recommended that I get a Whirlpool duet.


Post# 686903 , Reply# 50   7/2/2013 at 16:30 (3,922 days old) by frontloaderfan (Merrimac valley, MA)        
WTF?!

frontloaderfan's profile picture
No more SQ frontloaders?!

Post# 686923 , Reply# 51   7/2/2013 at 18:10 (3,922 days old) by aptone1 ()        

Discontinuation is not surprising. The 2018 TL energy standards are quite difficult to meet. The 2018 standards are the same as today's energy star. Any machine family that does not have an energy star member will be disappearing. The energy requirements for 2015 may cause some of today's machines to disappear but 2018 will be much tougher.

Post# 686929 , Reply# 52   7/2/2013 at 18:45 (3,922 days old) by richardtb ()        
answer to frontloaderfan

The store only sells the TL model, so I did not discuss to FL. Sorry.

The store also sells Miele & Bosch and he implied that he would not be surprised if both of these companies stop selling washer & driers when the new driers standard come up that limit fire hazards.


Post# 686933 , Reply# 53   7/2/2013 at 19:10 (3,922 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
SQ FL Washers

combo52's profile picture

Are Energy-Star machines now and will not be discontinued in 5 years and I predict that SQ will still be making the TL washers in 5 years as well, they may not be selling them in the US however. I would bet that any SQ laundry product being built today will have better parts availability than most if not all WP laundry products being sold today in 10-15-20 years from now.


Post# 686953 , Reply# 54   7/2/2013 at 20:15 (3,922 days old) by pierreandreply4 (St-Bruno de montarville (province of quebec) canada)        

pierreandreply4's profile picture
would be a good thing if whirlpool decided to discontinue front load washers as well to focus only on there topload line by the time i change my set both washer dryers as i kind of like the new whirlpool topload washer

Post# 686982 , Reply# 55   7/2/2013 at 22:23 (3,922 days old) by richardtb ()        
question for pierreandreply4

Which model exactly are you referring to?

Post# 687062 , Reply# 56   7/3/2013 at 07:01 (3,921 days old) by pierreandreply4 (St-Bruno de montarville (province of quebec) canada)        

pierreandreply4's profile picture
i was refering to my old 2004 duet its a first generation but what i do not like about it is the fact that i do not have a quick wash cycle on it and also for me du to my size near 6 inch tall i have to sit down to load unload the washer and also my laundy room is on the second floor so when the washer go into spin i hear it from the first floor and also when i have to use hand wash or delicate cycle the washer do not do a first spin to spin out the sud it fills directly for a rinse

Post# 687070 , Reply# 57   7/3/2013 at 08:07 (3,921 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        
DONT GET WHIRLPOOL!!!

Here in Germany "Bauknecht" is a oftenly sold brand, made by Whirlpool. And really, machines bought 5 years ago broke down in 90% of all cases. Whirlpool are one of these "Buy them, use them 3 years, get a new one" brands. And, even if Miele would stop producing them, parts would be avaible still. But these are quite expensive in deed after 15+ years.

Post# 687120 , Reply# 58   7/3/2013 at 13:42 (3,921 days old) by richardtb ()        
response to henene4

Well, I am limited in choices since my wife will not allow me to buy anything which is less then 3.3 cu. ft., so that knocks out the Miele and the SQ FL.

I called AJ Madison and the salesperson recommended the Maytag Maxima.


Post# 687126 , Reply# 59   7/3/2013 at 14:13 (3,921 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        

Mmh, okay, then i`m out. Don't now much about these US washer brands.
Only Miele Professional offers such big drums, like the one i posted below...Indeed this one is one of the smallest machines they offer with ca. 3.5 cu ft, and because it is a machine oftenly used in Laundromats, this will last a long time. The next bigger one needs to be bolted, so now way that for.On this one, the machine just needs to be fixed to the flor with smaller screws.
But these machines are just horrible expensive, so, get any washer you want and that is recomended by one of the members or your appliances dealer.


CLICK HERE TO GO TO henene4's LINK


Post# 687133 , Reply# 60   7/3/2013 at 15:17 (3,921 days old) by richardtb ()        
response to henene4

ok, I will give it another try at calling commercial washing machine distributors.
Last time I called them they were not interested to selling to residential, but my choices are looking bleak!


Post# 687134 , Reply# 61   7/3/2013 at 15:26 (3,921 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        

Keep in mind this is a washer with drain vavle, means it got no pump, so water needs to be abled to flow just out of the washer int the pipe, but with a standpipe it should be possible to place a angle down wards on the end of the drain pipe. So, if you ever need a nother washer (what i dont think), it would be possible to change this anyway.

Post# 687136 , Reply# 62   7/3/2013 at 15:33 (3,921 days old) by richardtb ()        
Miele professional

They start at $10,000+....

Post# 687138 , Reply# 63   7/3/2013 at 15:45 (3,921 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands)        

foraloysius's profile picture
Redo the laundry room in a way that it is easy to install a new washer and dryer after a reasonable time. Modern washers are not built to last anymore. Perhaps except from Speed Queen and Miele, but since they have been knocked out by your wife I would take no risk with the design of the laundryroom. Don't make it more difficult than it already is.

Post# 687141 , Reply# 64   7/3/2013 at 15:56 (3,921 days old) by RevvinKevin (Tinseltown - Shakey Town - La-La Land)        
the salesperson recommended the Maytag Maxima...

revvinkevin's profile picture

 

 

I'm a Maytag fan, however Maytag as we knew it ceased to exist in April, 2006 when Whirlpool bought what was left of the struggling company.   Because of that I would never buy anything new with the Maytag name on principle, it's just a re-badged Whirlpool.  

 

Aside from that, I agree with many suggestions or votes for Speed Queen, whether it be an FL or TL machine.

 

DO NOT let your wife get caught up in the whole "What is the interior size / volume of the machine".   In the grand scheme of things the difference of .2, .3 or .5 cu.ft. will matter very little when doing your weekly laundry!  

 

I have a TOL 2009 (Whirlpool built) Kenmore Elite steam washer that's "rated" at 4.0 cu.ft.   When I bought it, I looked at the same model, but in red, sitting next to it.   Except for the color, it looked identical to the one I ended up buying, but was "larger" with a rating of 4.4 cu.ft.   I even took a tape measure to the inside drum of both washers and you know what?   The interior dimensions were EXACTLY the same.   I eventually realized the difference was only because in one washer, the baffles / paddles in the drum were shorter / smaller than the other and this alone accounted for the "extra" .4 cu.ft of volume in the other machine!

 

I also have a 1997 Frigidaire FL (small round door) which is "rated" at 3.1 cu.ft. (the EXACT same machine today is now rated @ 2.7 cu.ft)   I have washed a Cal King set of sheets, a Queen set of sheets plus 6 pillow cases in the same load, it handles it just fine and everything is clean.   Now trying to dry that load in one dryer on the other hand, is a challenge.  LOL

 

The Speed Queen website lists their FL washer at 2.84 cu.ft, BUT they USED to be rated at 3.3 cu.ft.   I've seen other listings for the SAME machine also list it as 3.3 cu.ft.   This is probably due to new government mandates changing the way the interior volume is calculated.

 

If you want to be able to wash your comforters at home, I would suggest a front load washer.

 

Kevin

 

 




This post was last edited 07/03/2013 at 16:37
Post# 687143 , Reply# 65   7/3/2013 at 15:58 (3,921 days old) by kb0nes (Burnsville, MN)        

kb0nes's profile picture
Out of curiosity how did your wife come up with the arbitrary 3.3 cu ft? The SpeedQueen front loader at 2.84 cu ft will quite likely wash more then any toploader then you are considering. How many people will the laundry be serving?

You could always buy a Huebsch HX25 commercial softmount machine. It has 25lb capacity with a cylinder volume of 3.4 cu ft. You could have it for a good bit less then that Miele Pro. Just have to arrange for 240v power and figure out how to get ~550 pounds of metal into your laundry room! For home use you will never kill that machine and unlike the Miele if you need parts and service you will be able to get it...


Post# 687173 , Reply# 66   7/3/2013 at 20:21 (3,921 days old) by richardtb ()        
3.3 cu ft requirement

The way I came up with 3.3 cu ft is that is the size of the speed queen TL.
We took our king size bedspread to the store and it barely fit the SQ TL.
So, my wife would have been just ok with that, but clearly would not go for something that would be any smaller than that.


Post# 687176 , Reply# 67   7/3/2013 at 20:32 (3,921 days old) by richardtb ()        
response to foraloysius

I agree. The Whirlpool Duet is huge, so given that the laundry room will be designed to fit it, we will be find when we get a new one. I agree with everyone that this is not a very exciting choice, but it seems better than the alternatives.

Post# 687177 , Reply# 68   7/3/2013 at 20:38 (3,921 days old) by kb0nes (Burnsville, MN)        

kb0nes's profile picture
Richard,

I don't think you can compare a top load machine with a conventional agitator to a front loader on a equal cubic foot capacity basis. A top loader won't be able to move the load once you cram it full.

I'd wager that the standard SQ front loader, even though its smaller, will wash your king size comforter far better then their top loader. I'll let others with more first-hand experience with those two machines elaborate further.


Post# 687188 , Reply# 69   7/3/2013 at 22:19 (3,921 days old) by pierreandreply4 (St-Bruno de montarville (province of quebec) canada)        

pierreandreply4's profile picture
well the thing is that washer capacety changes alot over the year depending on the model varying from 3.9 capacety to 4.5 depending if the top load is an agitator model or impaler plate model see following link that i am posting and in term of the whirlpool duet washer my laundry utilaty is in my main bathroom on the second floor and my duet washer barely fits in the closet space where the washer dryer is i had to sacrefice the closet door just to be able to open the dispenser drawer for the detergent so its important that you measure the laundry room space for your washer dryer because there are chance if you buy a duet tht it might not fit in your laundry room space.

CLICK HERE TO GO TO pierreandreply4's LINK


Post# 687189 , Reply# 70   7/3/2013 at 22:24 (3,921 days old) by Yogitunes (New Jersey)        
Reality Check!

yogitunes's profile picture
Facing Reality........

I have several of the original Maytag Neptune FLers....who have a capacity of 3. something or other....main thing is I can wash 10 KING SIZE sheets in a single load....it washes the King comforter as well......

the question really is "How many times a year are you washing a comforter?".....does it really get THAT dirty?...and because of a smaller machine, you may have to run to the Laundromat maybe 3 times a year......

I have seen a Bed and Breakfast operate with a single set of smaller machines with no issues......

how many KING size beds do you have?.......I only have one.....now if I had several, that may be a different story!


one has to ask...."Do you drive a GreyhoundBus as a daily driver to go back and forth to work 364 days of the year?"....because of an occasional family outting once a year, requiring you to carry 40 or so people.......

OK...you got me there, I did have a 15 passenger Van...then again.....I had a NEED!, Daily!....with 3 adopted and 7 foster kids and two adults, plus cargo......this just made common sense!...or maybe only to me!....

not a rant.....just living within my needs


Post# 687191 , Reply# 71   7/3/2013 at 22:48 (3,921 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie)        

frigilux's profile picture
I agree with others who recommend a front-loader. They're very water and energy efficient, clean very well, and handle large items like blankets and comforters with aplomb.

Consumer Reports has the new Maytag Maxima XL line at the top of their ratings. The models are MHW 6000, 7000, or the top-of-the-line 8000. Check Maytag.com online to see the features each offers. The prices range from $1,000-$1,300 depending on the model. CR rates them excellent in cleaning, capacity, water and energy efficiency. They also have a rating of excellent for vibration, which means they will be quiet and stable when installed on a wood floor. If you decide on Maytag, be sure to get a washer from the new "Maxima XL" line, not the previous Maxima line. Many improvements have been made on the new line.

Also very near the top is the new Whirlpool Duet line---the WFW88HEAW, for instance ($1,000). Same scores as the Maytag, but only a very good rating for vibration---which should still be fine for installation on a wood floor.

LG also makes some great front-loaders, like the WM3470H ($1,100). Ratings similar to the aforementioned Maytag and Whirlpool models. LG's reliability scores are a little higher than either Maytag or Whirlpool (which aren't bad, either).

Speed Queen makes machines built like tanks, but they don't have the capacity and features of the Maytag, Whirlpool and LG lines.

It is my understanding that Whirpool front-loaders are no longer made by Bauknecht.

Good luck with your choice, and let us know what you wind up getting. Enjoy your new laundry facility when it's completed!


Post# 687234 , Reply# 72   7/4/2013 at 08:35 (3,920 days old) by richardtb ()        
Answer to posts

First, in terms of fitting the comforter. I was speaking loosely. What we need to wash regularly is this cover for our California King mattress. This is one of these plastic covers that keeps the dust mites in the mattress. It is pretty large and takes more room than something that is made out of cotton. Again, we put in the SQ TL and it just fit.

Regarding the Maytag Maxima XL, that was the advice of the AJ Madison salesperson.
I was a bit concerned with going with one of these newer models by an American maker. I am just crossing my finger that they have fixed the problems on the Duet, or that the local repair people have gotten really good at fixing them. I also called two local dealers who sell a variety of appliances (SQ, Miele,...) and they both recommended the Duet. Given that these are the people who would come and repair it, I put quite a bit of weight on their recommendation.

Thanks for the tip on the soap dispenser, I will make sure that the laundry room
is designed so that I can open the Duet soap dispenser.


Post# 687240 , Reply# 73   7/4/2013 at 09:42 (3,920 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
Compairing Capacity of a FL to a TL washer

combo52's profile picture

You can easily put TWICE as much laundry in a FL washer as compared to a TL washer of the same interior size. I have a SQ FL washer for over eight years now and it will easily wash all 5 3'x4' of my kitchen rugs in one load, the SQ TL washer will only wash 2 of these rugs in one load.

 

With a SQ FL washer if you can get the items in and close the door the machine will wash them easily WITHOUT hurting the clothing load or the MACHINE.

 

                                                         You Can Not Compare The Capacity of A TL and FL washer by Comparing Size of The Interior.

 

 

While there are many FL washers on the market now that are even larger than the SQ FLers I question whether they will stand up to being filled completely as none of them are built like a SQ. All other bigger FL washers have plastic outer tubs, plastic drum baffles, plastic shock mounts, even plastic base frames and thin steel cabinets that a punched together rather than welded or screwed together.

 

And the most telling fact of all is NONE of these giant FL washers are recommended for or being used in commercial self-service laundry installations. The manufacturers know that they would never hold up in commercial service if they allowed people to stuff them full over and over again.


Post# 687263 , Reply# 74   7/4/2013 at 12:52 (3,920 days old) by richardtb ()        
response to combo52

ok, I will take your word for it.

However, my wife would want to be able to see that for herself (put the sheets on the
SQ FL), which may be a challenge since nobody sells in town sells the SQ FL.



Post# 687372 , Reply# 75   7/4/2013 at 21:08 (3,920 days old) by pierreandreply4 (St-Bruno de montarville (province of quebec) canada)        
RichardTb

pierreandreply4's profile picture
is his the duet set that was recomeded to you? because the washer capacety is 4.7 and the dryer 7.4 electric and also this model seems to be a new arrival

CLICK HERE TO GO TO pierreandreply4's LINK


Post# 687373 , Reply# 76   7/4/2013 at 21:09 (3,920 days old) by pierreandreply4 (St-Bruno de montarville (province of quebec) canada)        

pierreandreply4's profile picture
speed queen front loader have you tryed ordering a speed queen front load set online?

Post# 687381 , Reply# 77   7/4/2013 at 22:28 (3,920 days old) by richardtb ()        
response to pierreandreply4

This was the duet that I was thinking about getting (4.1 cu. ft)
www.whirlpool.com/-[WFW70HEBW]-10...

I am sure the local retailer would be able to order a FL. It is just an issue of being able to see in person if it was large enough.


Post# 687398 , Reply# 78   7/5/2013 at 03:17 (3,919 days old) by qualin (Canada)        

You know, I find that I really have to contribute towards this thread now.

The biggest problem with consumer grade machines is just what combo52 said. They just simply are designed with lots of compromises in place to keep costs down. Those compromises are numerous, including compromises which are designed to ensure that you will buy a new machine regularly, with the lure of features and capacity while hiding all of the real shortcomings of the machine which will affect its reliability.

Companies building consumer grade machines are very happy to sell you a machine which is designed to have a short lifespan, knowing that you'll buy the machine for its features and capacity and not for it's durability.

Companies which build and design commercial grade machines take a different approach. They design their machines to last. This means that they probably won't have as many features and gimmicks. It also means they won't have as much capacity either, but in all honesty, they don't subscribe to the race to the bottom which all of the consumer grade machine manufacturers are on, to provide the latest gimmick, feature or capacity rating.

There is a very good reason why commercial grade machines have smaller capacities than consumer grade machines. Nobody really thinks of how much a large load of clothing weighs when it is wet. Not to mention the stresses on the components of the machine when it has to take all of that heavy clothing and spin it at forces over 300 G's.

I've seen youtube videos of consumer grade front loader machines with completely worn out bearings after 3-5 years worth of use. My guess is that these machines were always loaded to capacity all the time and just couldn't handle it.

Commercial grade machines are designed to be abused and loaded to capacity on every load. They can handle a stuffed drum full of heavy demin or rubber car mats. They can take a beating again and again, year after year. In a consumer environment, these machines will last DECADES.

I have a Huebsch FL, which is just a Canadian version of the SQ FL and I can certainly say without a doubt that while I can't stuff my double extra fluffy comforter into the machine, (Actually, I can, but it won't tumble) it handles 99 percent of all of the other things which I put into it.

Like they've said, is it really worth it to buy a machine which will give you less reliability just so you don't have to make the occasional trip to a laundromat?

Something else to think about... The larger the machine is, the more noise and vibration it is going to produce. It's only physics really.

Barring the whole king-sized comforter argument, how much laundry do you normally do in a week anyway? A 3.3 cu.ft machine is more than enough for two people for ordinary laundry jobs. To put it into perspective, between my wife and I, we typically run a full load of laundry once every two weeks.


Post# 687410 , Reply# 79   7/5/2013 at 06:54 (3,919 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie)        

frigilux's profile picture
The WFW70HEBW is very near the top of the ratings at Consumer Reports, and a relative bargain for a well-featured front-loader. Rated excellent in categories of cleaning performance; water and energy efficiency; capacity; gentleness to fabrics. Rated very good for noise and freedom from vibration.

Congratulations! May you have many trouble-free loads of laundry in your future.

Qualin: One load of laundry every two weeks? Good heavens! I live alone and wash 7 loads a week.

1: Bath linens
2 & 3: Bed linens (launder them twice a week)
4: Light colors
5: Blacks/dark colors
6 & 7: Kitchen/personal whites (Have company for dinner regularly, so there are always several large tablecloths from the table and the buffet line, plus a boatload of cloth napkins in addition to all the towels/rags/aprons used in food prep.)



Post# 687440 , Reply# 80   7/5/2013 at 10:15 (3,919 days old) by PassatDoc (Orange County, California)        

The only things that won't fit my my 3.5 cu ft 2006 Frigidaire FL are two king size comforters from IKEA. These were sold as a set, with snaps to connect the comforters. One is light weight, one is medium weight, and for winter you can snap together the comforters to make one very warm winter comforter (in theory. in reality, the resulting comforter is so lofty and bulky that it's hard to insert into a duvet cover, so in winter I give each one a cover and pile one on top of the other on the bed). They don't get soiled readily since they are always used with a duvet cover.

Once a year, I haul them down to the laundromat and use the triple-load Milnor washers. I can fit both of them inside one Milnor, and it costs $3.50-4.00 (somewhere in that area) to wash, and perhaps $2.50 to run two dryers. The whole process takes about 75 minutes and it's simply something I have to do once a year.



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