Thread Number: 47440
Australian Market Hoover 455 Washer & 155 Dryer 		[Down to Last]

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Post# 688977   7/12/2013 at 16:30 (3,939 days old) by crouzet951 ()        

Hello and greetings from Brisbane Australia.

I’ve been reading lots of threads in the archives over the last few days and they’re fantastic – so many great machines and people. The UK and Australian market posts, including about the 455, have been fascinating, as have the gorgeous US machines. My interest in washers commenced when my parents bought a new Hoover 525 top loader in the early 70s, after mum had put up with a Pope wringer machine for years. I talked them into getting the model with a heater, which was never used anyway. Top loaders ruled the Aus market in those days. The machine was fascinating to a 14 year old boy, and that fascination has never ceased. Alas, the 525 went years ago and all that remains is the instruction book. It was great to see photos of various 500 series machines again. I’d forgotten how handsome they were. Hopefully you may be interested in my 455 washer and its matching 155 dryer.

I bought the 455 new in October 1980, for the sum of $360. The replacement Aus made 465 had been out almost 12 months by then, and the only reason I didn’t buy one of those was there was no detergent dispenser. Not knowing much about these machines at the time, it’s a decision that was never regretted. Mine would have to be one of the last 455s sold new in Aus. The manufacture date is February 1979. Over the years I’ve replaced the tub bearings and seal a few times, the tub back plate, the door interlock, and a few hoses. Overall it’s been very reliable.

In a moment of madness I retired it in 2007, after the tub bearings failed in a big way. I stupidly replaced the ceramic seal face on the spider on the last bearing change (it was hardly worn) and it came loose, allowing water into the bearings over the next few years. The tub had about 10mm of up and down play at the front. I’d love to hear what other people have used to retain the seal face when replacing it.

It languished in my garage until now. I’ve come to miss it over the last few years, so the 455’s being resurrected, mainly due to the enthusiasm gained through this site. Alas, on initial disassembly just yesterday, there is a small rust hole through the outer tub where the drain tube connects. Hopefully epoxy water-proof putty will do the trick after it's cleaned up. The inner tub is still in good condition.

The 155 dryer falling into my hands was one of those moments of serendipity that don’t occur very often in life. The local electricity supplier at the time was SEQEB (South East Queensland Electricity Board), and they had stores, much like the Electricity Board in UK. When driving past a SEQEB store one day in the early 90s, sitting forlornly outside was a Hoover 155 dryer. The car was turned around very quickly. It turned out the dryer was a trade-in, and it didn’t work. The thing that struck me was the incredible cosmetic condition of the machine. It obviously had been someone's pride and joy. The drier was picked up for princely sum of $10!

The machine would not tumble, but the heating elements were working. It turned out the motor windings were burnt out due to the fluff clogging it. My advice to anyone cleaning one of these machines internally is, don’t neglect the motor. A new set of windings were obtained from Hoover and the motor was back in action. The drum front nylon bearings were replaced, the clockwork timer replaced with a Diehl electric timer (Hoover sold the conversion kit in those days), and of course the stretchy fan belt was renewed. It’s run beautifully ever since. The manufacture date is December 1978. I’d dearly love to find a stacking frame for this British dryer to fit on the washer, as then it could come out of the garage.

Over the years I’ve collected: lots of new & used parts for these machines; the service and parts manuals for the 3236H, 455, and many of the Aus manufactured front loaders; and also brochures for most of the Aus front loaders. The service manuals have been scanned into a 36mb PDF, so let me know if anyone would like a copy emailed. If anyone’s interested, I can scan the brochures and post on here as well.

My only other Hoover products are a U6033 Power-Drive Dynamatic (as Dial-A-Matic vacuum cleaners were known in Aus), and a rather funny little 8337 Runabout carpet sweeper.

The following images were taken in 2001, just after the tub back plate was replaced on the 455. They were taken with my previous digital camera, so apologies if some of the images are not completely sharp.

Sorry for the length of this posting. Hopefully it hasn't been too boring.

Regards John



The 455 in all its glory. All the paint is original, except for the door which has yellowed. It was repainted over 20 years ago due to rust, and needs to be done again.




Post# 688978 , Reply# 1   7/12/2013 at 16:32 (3,939 days old) by crouzet951 ()        

The 'chrome' plating on the bezel never lasts.

Post# 688979 , Reply# 2   7/12/2013 at 16:33 (3,939 days old) by crouzet951 ()        

Open wide! The machine originally came with a grey door seal.

Post# 688981 , Reply# 3   7/12/2013 at 16:38 (3,939 days old) by crouzet951 ()        

After looking through many threads, the knobs on both machines appear to be similar to the Electra A2E04 Washer and D6E06 dryer. The inner plastic part with the numbers always cracks where it turns the timer shaft via a roll pin. Soft wire wrapped around the part (even when already cracked) fixes it completely.

Post# 688983 , Reply# 4   7/12/2013 at 16:53 (3,939 days old) by crouzet951 ()        

What look like rust marks is fish-oil based paint that I liberally treated the chassis and joints with just after purchase.

I made two modifications to the machine not long after purchase - the addition of a power neon next to the timer knob, and the instillation of a relay to take the heater load off the timer. Arcs could be seen coming from the timer when switching the heater and it worried me. The relay's the small grey box behind the timer. Luckily I had an old 455 wiring loom so leads of the correct colours were able to be used.

The machine also had the exploding suppressor as described in another thread, probably due to moisture. What a bang they make. The scorch marks can be seen under the terminal block at the back.


Post# 688984 , Reply# 5   7/12/2013 at 16:55 (3,939 days old) by crouzet951 ()        

The detergent dispenser and water valves.

Post# 688985 , Reply# 6   7/12/2013 at 16:58 (3,939 days old) by crouzet951 ()        

Water level pressure switch, relay, and timer.

Post# 688988 , Reply# 7   7/12/2013 at 17:21 (3,939 days old) by ronhic (Canberra, Australia)        

ronhic's profile picture
Fantastic to see.

There is a wealth of knowledge, as you know, about the 'matchbox' machines on which our Hoovers were originally based, so stay tuned....someone will help!

Post# 688990 , Reply# 8   7/12/2013 at 17:24 (3,939 days old) by crouzet951 ()        

The wonderful clicking creaking Crouzet timer, and relay. These are one of the most fascinating electro-mechanical devices I've ever seen.

I've disassembled this one and after doing that it explained to me what the quiet clicking is (the 15''' on and 5''' off normal washing action, and the 3''' on and 17''' off gentle washing action subinterval switches based on 6 x 20" intervals), the creaking (depressing the direction switch for clockwise wash rotation), and the loud click before the anti-clockwise wash rotation (releasing direction switch back to its normally closed position.

The sub-interval synchronous motor runs all the time the washer is on, eexcept for filling to low level, and this is why this motor almost always fails first.

They're a bit tricky when reassembling getting the subinterval timer correct but not too bad.

Post# 688991 , Reply# 9   7/12/2013 at 17:27 (3,939 days old) by crouzet951 ()        

Thanks ronhic.

I've realised just how much knowledge there is here after reading threads for the last few days. The many UK machines are fascinating.

Post# 688992 , Reply# 10   7/12/2013 at 17:29 (3,939 days old) by crouzet951 ()        

The dual water level pressure switch.

Post# 688994 , Reply# 11   7/12/2013 at 17:41 (3,939 days old) by crouzet951 ()        

Shot of the lower rear with the cover removed.

As mentioned previously, this was a new tub rear plate in 2001 when the images were taken. The original had corroded so badly there were a couple of holes in it. This type of rear plate is used on the 525 and later Aus machines. The heating element is in the correct position, but the thermostat hole was too small, so it had to be machined out by a local engineering firm to suit the 455 thermostat.

Also, there is no spigot for the water level bellows either, just a hole where a rubber grommet and sleeve fits, so they are from the 525 as well.

Post# 688995 , Reply# 12   7/12/2013 at 17:43 (3,939 days old) by mayfan69 (Brisbane Queensland Australia)        
Hi John

 mayfan69's profile picture
Hi John

Welcome aboard! Where have you been hiding yourself? And your a local too!

That means there are now 3 of us here in Brisbane with an interest in machines: Brisnat81, you and myself.

I picked up a Hoover 455 very recently.

Cheers
Leon

Post# 688996 , Reply# 13   7/12/2013 at 17:46 (3,939 days old) by crouzet951 ()        

The motor, pump, and module - the latter being Mullard of course. The fish-oil paint is sure ugly, but it's stopped any rust in the metal joints and spot welds.

Post# 688999 , Reply# 14   7/12/2013 at 17:51 (3,939 days old) by crouzet951 ()        

Model A3072 manufactured February 1979.

Presumably the 052 in the top right corner is Hoover's internal code for Australia, as it's the same on my dryer. All the British market machines seem to have 001, which is logical, being the home market.

Post# 689001 , Reply# 15   7/12/2013 at 17:59 (3,939 days old) by crouzet951 ()        

Hi Leon

Thanks for the welcome. I saw your machine on the board, as well as the video. It's good a few of these are being saved and used.

The 455 is still very attractive in my opinion, and you may think the same about the 155 when the pics are posted.

To be honest, I didn't really know there was a thriving interest in washers and dryers. Hehe. I know now!

Thanks again for the welcome.

Regards
John

Post# 689002 , Reply# 16   7/12/2013 at 18:00 (3,939 days old) by crouzet951 ()        

The owner handbook.

Post# 689003 , Reply# 17   7/12/2013 at 18:02 (3,939 days old) by crouzet951 ()        

An ad from the local Readers Digest dated October 1977.

Post# 689004 , Reply# 18   7/12/2013 at 18:04 (3,939 days old) by crouzet951 ()        

The Hoover 155 dryer. The condition throughout is quite astonishing.

Post# 689005 , Reply# 19   7/12/2013 at 18:06 (3,939 days old) by crouzet951 ()        

As mentioned previously, the timer knob is similar to the Electra D6E06 dryer.

Post# 689006 , Reply# 20   7/12/2013 at 18:09 (3,939 days old) by crouzet951 ()        

Not even deluxe! See how they treat us from the antipodes. :-)

Post# 689007 , Reply# 21   7/12/2013 at 18:11 (3,939 days old) by crouzet951 ()        

Open wide! The vitreous enamel on the drum is unmarked.

Post# 689008 , Reply# 22   7/12/2013 at 18:12 (3,939 days old) by crouzet951 ()        

It could get nasty if ignored.

Sorry about the blurry image.

Post# 689010 , Reply# 23   7/12/2013 at 18:16 (3,939 days old) by crouzet951 ()        

Lid off. The condition throughout is remarkable.

I also modified this machine like the 455 - a neon when running, and a relay to take the electrical load of the elements, instead of the timer.

Post# 689011 , Reply# 24   7/12/2013 at 18:21 (3,939 days old) by crouzet951 ()        

The clockwork timer was replaced by a Diehl electric timer. Hoover sold conversion kits at the time. I didn't quite trust the clockwork timer.

The cabinet, same as the 455, appears to have cutouts for late Keymatics, among others.

Post# 689012 , Reply# 25   7/12/2013 at 18:29 (3,939 days old) by crouzet951 ()        

Model D6028 manufactured December 1978.

As noted for the 455, the 058 at the top right corner of the label is probably the Hoover internal country code for Australia.

Sorry once again for the blurry image.

I hope this has been interesting. Let me know if you'd like to see my Aus market brochures.

Post# 689106 , Reply# 26   7/13/2013 at 03:47 (3,939 days old) by matchboxpaul (U.K)        

Hi John.

Welcome to the club and have to say what a great treat this thread has been for the early hours of Saturday morning - its now 09.46 over here and I have been nipping to and from this thread for the last hour and a half.

Having researched the Hoover UK range of machines for the last few years, Australia has to be the next most interesting range or me.
A market that imported UK tubs in its early years, moved onto unusual top loader models derived from other countries, but with the Hoover roundel applied to them, before dabbling with front loaders.
My username giving the game away, you will realise that these front loaders are a particular interest of mine, particularly as your first non-keymatic front loader was the 3236H of which I am so fond.

Your 455 looks superb in those photos and its great that you have decided to indulge in a further resurrection of it. I am not a mechanical expert, being more the history side, but am sure that those in the know concerning tubs and bearings will offer their support and advice over the coming days.

I never knew that you also had a matching dryer too, for in all the Australian history threads over the years I don't ever remember anyone mentioning that the 455 had a companion dryer.
Your 155 is in superb condition - any possibility, once the 455 is sorted, of a side by side photo of your machines?
Thank goodness you were in the right place at the right time, to save it.

Below are a photo of my equivilants of your machines - the 3236H and the 3022 version 1 dryer:



Post# 689107 , Reply# 27   7/13/2013 at 03:53 (3,939 days old) by matchboxpaul (U.K)        

you will have seen the threads concerning this machines rescue and the many members involved in it finding a good home.

I am envious of your black door seal and made me smile, the fact that it started off with a grey one and that you managed to find a black one to replace it.
In the UK we are stuck with having to replace original black seals with less visually pleasing greys.
Still, I shouldn't complain too much as I am grateful that they are still available so the machines can be kept alive a bit longer.

The 3236H is owned by myself and Mathew (keymatic3203)....

Post# 689109 , Reply# 28   7/13/2013 at 03:58 (3,939 days old) by matchboxpaul (U.K)        

the 3022 version1 dryer is a touch older than the washer and dates from March 1971 (the 3236H is from October the same year).

This version1 3022 has the half panel fascia.
The version2 had a full panel, whilst version 3 was full panel but with a silver fascia and orange embellishments.

My parents had a 3236H and a version2 3022 dryer bought or them as wedding presents, back in 1973...

Post# 689111 , Reply# 29   7/13/2013 at 04:06 (3,939 days old) by matchboxpaul (U.K)        

I really don't want to hijack your thread by wittering on about my machines anymore, as they have had plenty written about them before and this is about your 455 and 155, but I will just post this final image below taken from the 1972 Hoover UK brochure and showing their range.

Top row - left to right:

3019T spinarinse de luxe
3019 spinarinse
3021 spin dryer
3106E tub with power wringer
3104E tub with hand wringer
3102E tub without wringer
3310E Hoovermatic

Bottom row - left to right:

3022 Dryer De Luxe (version2 !)
3235 Automatic
3236H Automatic De Luxe
3243H Keymatic De Luxe
3314L Hoovermatic De Luxe

.....

Post# 689112 , Reply# 30   7/13/2013 at 04:18 (3,939 days old) by matchboxpaul (U.K)        
Can I take you up on your offers, John?

 Hi John.

I would love to take you up on your offer of the pdf servicing manual - will be great to be bale to compare it with the information that Hoover UK issued.

Also, and I am sure that I will not be alone in this, it would be fan-flamingtastic to be able to see the Hoover Australia brochures that you have managed to accumulate over the years.

With your 455 and 155 and the possibility of servicing and brochure information, I have been really spoilt this morning:-)

Thanks again and keep us updated with how the restoration goes.
Paul
p.s useful that you have done the relay modification - is something that myself and Mathew will have to consider doing with the 3236H, as well as making it a part of the restoration plans for the 3243H Keymatic De Luxe....

Post# 689127 , Reply# 31   7/13/2013 at 06:45 (3,939 days old) by chestermikeuk (Rainhill *Home of the RailwayTrials* Merseyside,UK)        
Aus Washers

 chestermikeuk's profile picture
Welcome John, looking forward to hearing more about your Hoover and washer experiences, lovely looking machines, the 455 series are like hybrids of our matchbox machines and as you say the programmers are like our "Electra by Hoover" series...just editing a video of Mathews 3243 keymatic as we speak...

CLICK HERE TO GO TO chestermikeuk's LINK
Post# 689207 , Reply# 32   7/13/2013 at 21:22 (3,938 days old) by crouzet951 ()        

Hello to all.

Paul (matchboxpaul)

Thanks for the comments and images, and I'm glad you enjoyed the postings.

You may be interested to know there was one final UK built dryer on the Aus market. All will be revealed with the brochures (Twilight Zone music).

A friend of mine had a 3236H and matching 3022 dryer (with the full width control panel and the centrifugal start motor). He took them with him when moving to Melbourne and unfortunately they were lost. The half control panel is rather elegant, but making two cabinet types would presumably be why they went to full width later.

After lugging all 75kg of 455 washer up my stairs Friday (only one set of stairs with assistance from a friend - whew!), and after a bit more disassembly, there appear to be three problems to fix:
a. the previously mentioned rust in the outer tub,
b. the previously mentioned rear seal, and
c. the motor bearings need replacing (no big deal).
I'll also take the time to clean up and paint some items, mainly the pump cover, and it will all be photographed of course. It may even be treated to a new outer door panel and trim that I've been saving (image attached).

Thanks for the '72 range image. I too love the matchbox machines, especially the proud door models (it's all we had here...hehe). The chrome door models are especially striking.

A friend of mine was the Miele service manager at the time, and he 'obtained' the relays for me which were from certain Miele machines.

I'll be sure to get a picture side by side when all's completed.

Mike (chestermikeuk)

Thanks for the greeting. Your tumblr images are jaw dropping and will take me many hours to look through. I love the 3226 Keymatic video you filmed. It's so gloriously complicated - my favourite type of device. I remember looking at these in the shops when quite young, and wishing we had one.

Best wishes
John



Post# 689249 , Reply# 33   7/14/2013 at 03:33 (3,938 days old) by matchboxpaul (U.K)        

Hi John.

Made me smile when I saw your spare parts fascia backing, as I recognised it immediately.

That piece is a 1977 onwards creation, as it was pressed in such a way as to be able to accommodate both pure style matchboxes and also the Electra A3E02, of which my grandma was the proud owner.
Sold only through the electricity board shops, it was originally top of the Hoover-electra range, until the arrival of the A3E08 model introduced an 1100 machine to the range.
Strange that your fascia panel has an indentation space under the button cutouts, which the UK model definitely didn't have....

Post# 689250 , Reply# 34   7/14/2013 at 04:01 (3,938 days old) by matchboxpaul (U.K)        

A3E02...

Post# 689251 , Reply# 35   7/14/2013 at 04:12 (3,938 days old) by matchboxpaul (U.K)        

Hi John.

Treating and repairing rust and holes in tubs isn't impossible - depending on the size of the holes of course!
There are a coupe of guys on here who are experienced in doing this sort of repair and I am sure that they will be along in the next couple of days, with some advice.

As I mentioned before, my forte is the history side of things rather than the getting hands dirty side, though hopefully that will change towards the end of the year.
With so many machines to tinker on, I need to start learning what to do myself, without counting on others to do it for me. Irrespective of how much they enjoy doing repairs, I need to develop 'the knowledge' myself.

Your relay installations are a useful template, to take some of the pressure off the 3236H's timer and also to be included in the repair of the 3243H Keymatic. The latter machines issue centres around the fact that the heater being turned on and off has had a detrimental effect on the timer, which no longer performs the function.
Good to know that using a separate relay has been done before with success.

Cannot wait to start absorbing your brochures - just be sure to make 'em BIG! Lol :-)

Paul



Post# 689258 , Reply# 36   7/14/2013 at 05:00 (3,938 days old) by crouzet951 ()        

It's a little difficult to see in the images, but it's only the chrome plating beside the switch openings that is recessed, not the lip.

I also have a new bezel for the 155 (at the bottom), but unfortunately no adhesive insert.

Cheers
John

Post# 689313 , Reply# 37   7/14/2013 at 11:25 (3,938 days old) by SeamusUK (Dover Kent UK)        
Dates........

 seamusuk's profile picture
Hey Guys
It strikes me as odd on 2 counts.... firstly the fact the 455 and 155 were both Merthyr built- surely it would have made more sense for Meadowbank to have been kitted out to make them!.
Secondly the fact they date from Feb 79 and Dec 78 a while after Home market machines had moved on......
Seamus

Post# 689350 , Reply# 38   7/14/2013 at 16:24 (3,937 days old) by ronhic (Canberra, Australia)        
Seamus

 ronhic's profile picture
Meadowbank did eventually kit out to make them from either the 460/5 or the 470/5, but what you need to remember is that our market in general is about 35% the size of the UK market AND, at that point in time, front load machines only took about 5-10% of it.

It wasn't until around 1994-5 that front load sales started to increase and then around 2005-6 many councils introduced rebates for people who bought water efficient appliances, which had a flow on effect for front load sales.

There was an 9% increase in front load usage nationally (13-22%) from 2003 to 2008, with South Australia and the Australian Capital Territory then at 28%%....I'd suggest that this could be as high as 50% today.

Post# 689381 , Reply# 39   7/14/2013 at 18:05 (3,937 days old) by crouzet951 ()        

When I first bought the 455 in 1980, and for quite a few years afterward, anyone I mentioned it to thought I was crazy. They were shocked at the length of time the cycles took, while advantages like virtually no lint generated and far more efficient spin drying fell on deaf ears.

At that time, Australians loved their big top loaders that used 200 to 300 litres of water per load. Of course to be fair, the big machines could take double the load of mine and cycle time was usually 20 mins or so.

Post# 689417 , Reply# 40   7/14/2013 at 19:50 (3,937 days old) by optima (Cumbria England)        
Hoover 455

 optima's profile picture
Never could get my head around why top loaders were the norm in Australia rather than front loaders that use far less water, it's always got me thinking why.

Post# 689488 , Reply# 41   7/15/2013 at 06:12 (3,937 days old) by rapunzel (Sydney)        
"Never could get my head around...

 ...why top loaders were the norm in Australia"

Why not? We may be an ex-English colony, but that never meant that we had to import exclusively from the UK. We are not that far away from the US either. Americans brought their products and technologies to Australia and these were modified to fit in with the Australian way of life. And life in Australia isn't a desert, it's a dessert.

The rebate scheme encouraged Aussie consumers to try out front loaders, which have gained market share, but as these machines are now approaching the end of their life cycle, consumers are not necessarily replacing them with another front loader.

Post# 689494 , Reply# 42   7/15/2013 at 07:21 (3,937 days old) by twinniefan (Sydney Australia)        
Don't forget twin tubs

 twinniefan's profile picture
Hi guys,
John your picture of the little big wash advertisement bought back memories from my childhood, indeed my mother almost purchased a 455 but decided to go with a Westinghouse top loader instead because of larger size capacity etc.
Optima, I guess we collectively decided to follow America and go with large top loaders, however do not forget that twin tubs had a fair chunk of the market in those days too, especially the ever reliable Hoovermatic.
Cheers
Steve.

Post# 689612 , Reply# 43   7/15/2013 at 19:24 (3,936 days old) by Meadowbank ()        

Hello John,
Some points that may be of interest with your 455 rebuild:
1. If your outer tub is completely rusted out you can fit a chrome iron tub from a late series Australian machine with the dispenser draw. It is a direct swap and gives you the option of fitting the Australian suspension rubber system which prevents the tub from twisting in the shell. This system was designed in the UK but not used for cost reasons. I have done this tub swap in the past to a 455, although it reduces the authenticity it keeps the machine going.
2. The correct bearings for the back plate are large clearance bearings with the designation C4. As the bearings are a shrink fit in the back plate some of the clearance in the bearings is taken up, this reduced clearance could(?) shorten the life of standard clearance bearings. For the larger bearing near the seal (6005) the best type is a bearing with a contact seal. In the NSK range it is designated as a DU bearing with a seal on one side and DDU with seals on both sides, the seals are usually a rust red colour. For the NTN range the designation is LU/LLU and the colour is blue.
3. Be careful with heater wattages. The Australian machines used a higher wattage heater and heated the water without agitating the clothes, that is the wash motor and heater were not used at the same time. This was done to simplify and cost reduce the timer(one motor) and reduce the wash cycle time by heating the water more quickly. Fitting an Australian heater to a 455 would exceed the allowable 2400 watt load by a significant amount and may cause a fire.
4. If you are rebuilding the wash motor do not use the contact seal type bearings as described above as they are not capable taking the high motor speed, too much heat build up from the seals. These motors are capable of very high speeds when run directly on mains voltage, as they are in the spin cycle. I had one recently which ran up to 22000 RPM unloaded.
5. When you are taking the rear end shield (non pulley end) off the wash motor the plastic plug assembly can be passed through the cut out in the end shield so that you do not have to disconnect any wires.

This has been a bit technical so apologies to those with little interest in this area.
John, do you have any information on the Philips 3600F, this was a model manufactured for Philips by Hoover Australia. It was a standard Hoover machine with a horrible two tone brown facia and knob, the shell was painted a fawn colour from memory. I have an instruction book for this machine as well as some trim parts but alas not a complete machine. There were also top loader Philips models made as well.

CLICK HERE TO GO TO Meadowbank's LINK
Post# 689660 , Reply# 44   7/15/2013 at 20:38 (3,936 days old) by Meadowbank ()        
Unintended link

 Not sure what happened in my last post but a link was included which was not intended.

Post# 690455 , Reply# 45   7/19/2013 at 14:24 (3,932 days old) by crouzet951 ()        

My apologies for not answering sooner.

Hi Steve (twinniefan)

Thanks for the comment. I hate to admit it, but the 455 ad was liberated from a Readers Digest in a dentist waiting room in the early 80s. My need was greater. Hehe.

I'm about to post some Aus Hoover brochures and there's something for Hoovermatic fans.

Hi meadowbank

Thanks for all the fantastic advice.

I am now keeping a look out for a late outer tub for future installation. Luckily my vitreous enamel inner tub is in very good condition.

I was going to use a Stokes drum bearing kit (purchased some time ago when they actually had parts for these machines) which has SKF bearings (made in France) included - nos. 6004-2RSH & 6005-2RSH. Both bearings have contact seals on both sides. Do you think they'll be OK, or should I go for NSK or NTN ?

Another thing is that the bearing nearest the seal had seized, and there's a groove in the shaft, so the spider/shaft is unusable. I have the old spider off my parents' 525 when I replaced it about 10 years ago. It's only slightly worn where the oil seal has made a small groove, but it will be fine using the carbon seal. Neither Electrolux nor Stokes can now supply a new spider.

The $64,000 question - what do you suggest to retain the counterface on the spider? I was going to use a waterproof epoxy putty product obtained from Bunnings, as this coming loose last time was what let water in to destroy the bearing and the shaft.

Fingers crossed that the element holds out as the machine is pretty much useless without it.

Your advice on the motor bearings is very interesting. There are a couple of UK online parts sites that have genuine Hoover motor bearing kits, but after emailing them they don't send parts outside the UK. Very frustrating. They also have new spider kits which is doubly frustrating. I used the UK model A3090 when searching these sites as it is similar to the 455 (720rpm spin and AC brush motor). You can see on the images of the kit that the bearings are non-contact seal type.

What I might do is get the motor bearings out, and hopefully the type numbers will be visible. Thanks also for the advice about the plug assembly.

It's funny you should mention the Philips 3600F. As mentioned above I've been scanning some Aus brochures and this machine has been briefly mentioned. From somewhere in the past a photocopy of the instruction manual is in my possession (can't remember where from), but I do remember seeing them in the shops. It would be fascinating to see one in the flesh now as it'd be doubtful that very many were made.

My scans are about to be uploaded, along with what were going to be simple notes about each model. These have become something like War And Peace. Hehe. Please let me know if there are any errors.

Thanks again to you, and all people on this site. The enthusiasm has been infectious.

Kind regards
John

CLICK HERE TO GO TO crouzet951's LINK
Post# 690628 , Reply# 46   7/20/2013 at 00:41 (3,932 days old) by twinniefan (Sydney Australia)        
Philips range

 twinniefan's profile picture
Hi Meadowbank,
I remember the Philips range they were called the "Gentle Care" range and it consisted of 3600F you mention, a twin tub and 2 top loaders. from memory the top loaders were simply a rebadged Hoover 720 and 730, the front loader was a rebadged Zodiac, (I think.) but the twin tub was definitely not a Hoovermatic, it was more like a Hitachi twin tub.
I do remember seeing a few tv ads about them and an ad in a magazine.
The advertising concentrated on how gentle these washers allegedly were because in some tests paper tissues were put in the wash and apparently did not fall apart.
I kind of remember the various washing actions being described as "Pendulum washing action" for the F.L., a reversing pulsator action for the t.t. and I think "Heli-Swirl" wash action for the t.l.'s, but I could be wrong on that one.
Hope this info helps.
Regards,
Steve.

Post# 690658 , Reply# 47   7/20/2013 at 05:18 (3,932 days old) by rapunzel (Sydney)        

I recall the Philips top loaders also. They had the same spiral agitator as Hoover, but, from memory, I think their wash action was intermittent agitation and soaking for gentler care and to differentiate them from their Hoover cousins.

Post# 690684 , Reply# 48   7/20/2013 at 09:07 (3,932 days old) by Meadowbank ()        
Philips toploaders

 Hello John, Steve & Repunzel.
The Philips toploaders were numbered 3800A (=720) and 3820A (=730). I have a combined instruction book for these machines, it does not go into any technical details so I don't know about wash action differences compared with Hoover.

John, I would expect the standard bearings you have would be OK for the drum so long as there is no tightness when the drum is rotated with the belt off.
I have repaired a machine which had the same seal failure as yours. Getting the spider clean where the counterface mounts was the issue with this machine as well. The factory used a good quality silicon sealant on the new surfaces, unless you can mechanically clean the aluminium surface to the new metal I suspect you will have the same problem again. Another option is to use the lip seal with a thin stainless sleeve over the previously worn area of the spider shaft. These sleeves are called SPEEDY SLEEVES and are available from bearing suppliers. The lip seal got a bad name when it was introduced because of bearing failures however the failures were not usually caused by the seal but by incorrect assembly of the bearings into the backplate. The bearings were contaminated with an etching protection put onto the backplate.
For the motor, any good quality bearings that do not have contact seals would be fine.
The numbers for the model 490/495 were A3738 & A3740 respectively and the dates were April May 1988. A few weeks ago I acquired a prototype machine which has a hand adapted shell, probably from a 490, which has all of the (then) new parts fitted for a 525 model.


Post# 690789 , Reply# 49   7/20/2013 at 20:47 (3,931 days old) by crouzet951 ()        

Thanks to all for information on the Philips machines.

Hi meadowbank

Your information about the bearing contamination is interesting. The new backplate (from a 525) for the 455, purchased in 2001, had bearings (Japanese NSK) already installed, though failure in this case was almost definitely caused by the counterface coming loose.

Yesterday as well, when getting the bearings out of the backplate, the outer bearing came out normally, but the rusty and seized inner one was solid. It wasn't coming out without a fight. I ended up heating the centre of the backplate over a solid electric cooktop for 15 minutes or so, then quickly getting the backplate into position to tap out the inner bearing and tipping ice cubes down the centre to hopefully shrink the inner bearing a little. It worked a treat. Whew! The outer race bores in the backplate look fine.

Yesterday too, I drilled out the rivets attaching the spider to the 455 drum, as it had to come off whichever way due to the inner bearing seizing and scoring the shaft. Looking at the 455 spider after it's cleaned up a bit, and the old one from my parents' 525, they are quite different where the shaft joins the alloy spider. A couple of images are attached.

The image attached to this posting is the 455 spider. It's a bit hard to see but the area around the shaft is a shallow cone shape, though of very rough finish. I would even be worried how true the area was for mounting the counterface.

The image attached to my next posting is the old 525 spider. The area around the shaft where it meets the alloy spider is completely flat. It's not machined, and there is a trace of moulding flash, but it looks quite true. It's probably more suitable for the counterface than the 455 spider ever was. I will check out the Speedy Sleeve as well.

I'm still slightly hopeful of obtaining a new spider as a company called Big Warehouse Spares still lists new spider kits. They confirmed by email that they're still available, and it's been ordered, but I'll still believe it when I see it. If it arrives I'll definitely use the oil seal.

One last question, does the grooved or plain side of the counterface face the carbon seal?

Are you able to post images of your 525 prototype as I for one would love to see them.

Thanks once again for your expertise. It has been invaluable.

Best regards
John

Post# 690790 , Reply# 50   7/20/2013 at 20:49 (3,931 days old) by crouzet951 ()        
Refer to posting 690789

 Hi meadowbank.

This is the 525 spider described in the above posting.

Post# 691104 , Reply# 51   7/22/2013 at 06:56 (3,930 days old) by Meadowbank ()        
Spiders and seals

 Hello John,

A few answers: I have never seen a 455 spider without the seal but I expect that it would be like the picture of an early Australian spider I have shown. There are a series of concentric rings probably to increase the surface area for the adhesive to adhere to.
The grooved face of the counterface abuts against the spider, on the samples I have the grooved face is a poorer surface finish.

And a few suggestions: There were two types of bellows seal available and they both had occasional leaking problems. One has a plated steel ring which held the carbon seal face into the rubber of the bellows, these leaked at this joint and the steel ring eventually rusted which meant failure. And the other (the only one which Hoover Australia used)leaked where it was fitted into the backplate. The carbon seal face is bonded to the rubber on this seal. In production this seal was fitted with a bead of silicon rubber the same as the counterface. I would suggest doing the same.
I have included a picture of a spider arm to show a chamfer on the very end. I suggest that you do this to your spider as on some backplates there is reduced clearance and the spider can contact the backplate in extreme out of balance conditions- makes a very load noise.
I have also included a picture of the factory service tools for bearing removal.
The long knurled part is used to punch the bearings out and the collars are used with the cap screw to pull both bearings into position. The large washer is used to fit the later 'oil seal' type of seal.

I will post a picture of the prototype machine later, it is in storage under the house at the moment and is difficult to get at easily.


Post# 691106 , Reply# 52   7/22/2013 at 07:00 (3,930 days old) by Meadowbank ()        
see 691104

 Picture of spider arm modifications.

Post# 691108 , Reply# 53   7/22/2013 at 07:03 (3,930 days old) by Meadowbank ()        
see 691104

 Service tools for Hoover frontloader bearing replacement.

Post# 691513 , Reply# 54   7/24/2013 at 01:44 (3,928 days old) by crouzet951 ()        

Thanks again meadowbank for the fantastic information.

The company supposedly supplying the new spider emailed me today to say there'll be a slight delay. Fingers are still crossed, hoping a new spider will arrive. It would save me so many problems.

The backplate bearings aren't too difficult to remove and replace, but those tools sure would have made it much easier.

I went to SKF at Archerfield yesterday and obtained the motor bearings - non contact seal type as you mentioned. The armature has been sent to an electric motor firm to lathe and tidy up the commutator. There's still a lot of meat on it thankfully.

The motor on my 455 currently (the one being overhauled now) is actually an Australian built one from a 470. A friend of mine gave me this hardly used 470 motor in the early 90s. The original one on the 455 was starting to get a bit noisy so I swapped them. The only problem run into was that the original British motor on the 455 had a different power connector. It used round terminals, and the tachometer coil was connected via wires to the socket on the motor, rather than the Aus motor using spade terminals, and the two terminals from the coil poking through the plastic cover in the socket. Luckily at the time I had a correct 470 type plug and proper spade terminals, so it is connected correctly.

I had always surmised that the UK models simply had a different connector, but looking at the exploded view of the 3236H motor from the parts list, the plastic cover, spade terminals, and fixed terminals on the tacho coil are the same as the 470 motor. It is the 455 motor that is different. I wonder if one of our UK based friends can confirm the plug and socket change on the motors of later machines. The 455 manufacture date is February 1979.

Perhaps with the advent of the 1100rpm machines, the original plug was working loose and/or damaging the tacho coil via the fixed lugs, so they changed to a plug with locking tabs to solve the problem. They then perhaps standardised this socket on all motors, even the 720 rpm models. The 455 parts listing does not show this round connector type motor either, so it must only be the later ones fitted with it.

Attached is an image of the end of the original 455 motor with the matching plug sitting on top, showing the round terminals and the locking tabs.

On the follow up posting is an image comparing both rear covers and sockets.

Many thanks again and I hope these postings are not too boring for everyone, so apologies if they are.

John



Post# 691514 , Reply# 55   7/24/2013 at 01:46 (3,928 days old) by crouzet951 ()        
Refer to posting 691513

 Original UK 455 motor on the left, Aus motor on the right.

Post# 691563 , Reply# 56   7/24/2013 at 08:10 (3,928 days old) by Meadowbank ()        
Hoover frontloader motors

 Hello John,
I don't know which plug/socket was fitted to the 3236H but the control module was different and called a 'DC module' were as the 455 and latter were called 'AC modules'. I suspect the motors were different as well. When the 465 was introduced the motors used were imported from the UK and had the round pins. In Aust. the reliability reports indicated that the round pin plug and socket were not as good as the flat pin assy. so the flat pin assy. was reintroduced. If this was when the Aust. motor was introduced I don't know, but the flat pin assy. was used until the introduction of the induction motor.
If you have any issues with the motor armature I have new spares. As well are you aware that you should check the motor speed in the distribute cycle and adjust it if it is out of spec. especially after any work has been done or parts swapped?


Post# 691693 , Reply# 57   7/24/2013 at 17:29 (3,927 days old) by crouzet951 ()        

Hello meadowbank

Sorry, in my wild theorising about plugs shaking loose in posting 691513, I failed to realise that the spade type connector plug has locking tabs as well (Image attached).

It looks like my current setup is best to stick with after reading your information regarding the two plugs. Thank you for the offer of a new armature. The armature in the original 455 motor is in good order, so I have a spare.

In the image of the rear of the machine above, the little Whiteout dot can be seen on one of the pulley spokes used to check distribution speed after swapping the motor over. I hadn't thought of doing that again, but I will now when reassembled.

Cheers John





Post# 692417 , Reply# 58   7/28/2013 at 07:51 (3,924 days old) by matchboxpaul (U.K)        

Hi John.

The repair is moving on then?
Certainly the pictures you have posted of the rebuild so far jog the memories of mine and Mathew's 3236H.
As you can see, your 455 is in much better condition than the 3236H, but then the 3236H did survive by the skin of its teeth for probably 20 years in a derelict school....

Post# 692418 , Reply# 59   7/28/2013 at 07:53 (3,924 days old) by matchboxpaul (U.K)        

the motor - this was just after the machine had been acquired from the schools owner...

Post# 692420 , Reply# 60   7/28/2013 at 08:01 (3,924 days old) by matchboxpaul (U.K)        

Am digging out the servicing bumpff for you John and will post it during the week.
Will post it on a new thread for future reference and so as not to distract from your 455 thread.
Speaking of distractions, I must stop posting pictures of the 3236H. Here is the final one, in the form of before and after.

Keep us updated with how the 455 progresses, John.
Paul

Post# 693097 , Reply# 61   7/30/2013 at 06:06 (3,922 days old) by crouzet951 ()        

Hi Paul

I saw your rescue of the two washing machines in another thread. It's wonderful you went to the trouble of restoring it - the before and after difference is quite stunning. It's interesting looking at the shots of the rear of the 3236H, and there are two things in particular:

the position of (presumably) the motor speed module in the white container, with its wiring travelling across the detergent dispenser; and

the suspension set-up which appears to be upside down compared to later machines.

Neither of these features are in the Aus service literature for the 3236H, which is dated January 1973, so this must be a pretty early machine. I shall be very interested in seeing the UK service manual which includes these details. Thanks for doing that.

My home unit and balcony look like a workshop with 455 bits spread all over the place, I wasn't intending to remove the outer drum from the cabinet, but the amount of rust has made it necessary, to properly get to the areas on the drum needing attention. KURUST, as seen in a couple of electron1100's repair postings, is amazing. It works so well. The other good thing with removing the outer drum is that the base of the cabinet can now be cleaned out properly. An image is attached - a before shot. Hehe.

I have high standards to live up to with some of the machines on this site, and it'll be nice to have the old girl working again.

Cheers
John


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