Thread Number: 48157
So you think you're washing at 60 degrees? |
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Post# 698120 , Reply# 1   8/22/2013 at 12:23 (4,190 days old) by Aquarius1984 (Planet earth)   |   | |
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Post# 698157 , Reply# 3   8/22/2013 at 14:51 (4,190 days old) by logixx ![]() |
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The June issue of our consumer magazine dealt with the same problem. These are the results (with the brand names removed). Not one Cotton Eco cycle reached 60C while most regular Cotton 60C cycles did.
The table includes both the Eco (light gray) as well as the regular cycle (dark gray) - temp in °C - cycle duration - approx. cost in Euros - energy consumption in kWh The values are for 50% loads ![]() |
Post# 698171 , Reply# 4   8/22/2013 at 15:37 (4,190 days old) by Launderess ![]() |
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Thermal action of wash water temps >160F are good for sanitation but it is more a combination of pH level (alkaline is better),chemicals (detergents, bleaches, etc...) and mechanical action that provides a bulk of the work.
By shifting soils and biofilms off laundry you are sending most of the germs and what not suspended in water down the drain. Yes, they may still be alive but that does not befront most persons. The easiest commonly found on laundry bacteria to destroy would be E Coli. It takes only wash water held at 160F to 166F for about ten minutes to deal with most strains. Then there are other germs, fungi, molds, viruses that would require temps >200F for extended periods to kill. |
Post# 698177 , Reply# 5   8/22/2013 at 15:52 (4,190 days old) by Haxisfan (Europe - UK / Italy)   |   | |
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I just unwrapped my which? magazine and I quickly browsed through the pages but I couldn't find this article... what page is it on?
I own the Hoover DYN8163D8P and I tested the temperature myself. There are two cycles that are supposed to wash at 60 degrees. The standard 60 degrees cycle defaults at a temperature of 40 degrees, but this can be visually seen on the display... the user might change the temperature manually. If 60 is selected, the washer will heat the water close to that temperature only once... then it would have probably cooled down considerably by the end of the main wash. Having said that, this is only one side of the coin. By choosing the 'Stain Blaster' feature, the machine will heat the water to that temperature as many times as it is required. In my book this translates into flexibility and it's something that deserves praise instead of criticism. The other program that goes up to 60 degrees is a rapid cycle which will heat to this temperature provided that the user follows the manufacturer's instructions, namely they wash the recommended size load (3.5kg) on that cycle. If the weight of the clothes exceeds this limit, or the load is particularly absorbent, the washer will load more water than what the cycle is designed for... therefore, it will not be able to heat it up to temperature in the 35 minute main wash with a heater as small as 1200 watts. It's just the opposite as the Bosch eco perfect system... instead of selecting it... you have to deselect it. Shoddy work by Which? |
Post# 698328 , Reply# 6   8/23/2013 at 04:06 (4,190 days old) by electron1100 (England)   |   | |
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It is an interesting thread this one, I have tested my Hoover A3190 with a digital thermometer and the results are as follows.
This machine has two wash cycles one low level and a high level one, so I have measured the temperature when the initial heating stage is finished, and at the end of the low level wash cycle. It then fills up to high level this part of the cycle has a reheat stage for 40o the time for this can be between 2 and 8 minutes depending on the temperature of the cold water. I then measured the temperature of the water being pumped out at the end of the high level wash cycle. These are the results: Prog E 40o Cottons initial heating to 40.9 then 41-42o pump out temperature 38o Prog D 60o Cottons initial heating to 55o then 61o pump out temperature 57o Prog C 90o Cottons initial heating to 80o then 89o pump out temperature 85o The difference in the initial heating temperature and the final temperature on the low level wash is due to the wash times being of different lengths, as the machine will carry on heating throughout most of the wash cycle So no problems there Gary |
Post# 698358 , Reply# 7   8/23/2013 at 09:13 (4,189 days old) by AquaCycle (West Yorkshire, UK)   |   | |
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Post# 698363 , Reply# 8   8/23/2013 at 09:41 (4,189 days old) by PassatDoc (Orange County, California)   |   | |
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Hot and cold water line fill? Or cold water fill only? |
Post# 698378 , Reply# 9   8/23/2013 at 10:44 (4,189 days old) by electron1100 (England)   |   | |
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Post# 698383 , Reply# 10   8/23/2013 at 10:49 (4,189 days old) by electron1100 (England)   |   | |
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being interested in most things electro mechanical, I like to know what appliances are doing, I wish in a way at times I could just use something without thinking about what goes into it and how it works, I have met people who don't even know what make there washing machine is ?????? amazing
Anyway good luck with your testing Chris |
Post# 698476 , Reply# 11   8/23/2013 at 16:50 (4,189 days old) by logixx ![]() |
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![]() Mine heats to the selected temp unless I press the Eco button, which reduces any temp by 10C (except for the 20C setting, of course). The Cotton cycle defaults to Eco and Heaviest Soil - deselecting these options takes almost an hour off the cycle. Unfortunately, the machine will only heat the water once. |
Post# 698522 , Reply# 14   8/24/2013 at 01:04 (4,189 days old) by foraloysius ![]() |
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Post# 698617 , Reply# 16   8/24/2013 at 13:24 (4,188 days old) by Haxisfan (Europe - UK / Italy)   |   | |
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Dex, you don't need to make up excuses for this phenomenon when washing a 60 degrees Celsius on modern washing machines. The 12 machines tested by Which? were supposed to be tested on the Cotton 60 cycle but only 11 of them were tested at this temperature, the Hoover was tested on the Cotton 40 cycle instead.
I'm not saying that they did that deliberately (although they probably did LOL), as the 'Cotton 60' cycle on this model of Hoover defaults at 40 when selected and one can clearly see that on the display... so you basically get a Cotton 40 cycle instead. In order to get the Cotton 60... once the knob has been positioned onto the 60max cycle, you still need to browse the available temperatures and change it to 60 (then you'd get something like 55 like the other down2earth machines). I used the standard cotton 60 this morning and, having read the Which? article, if I didn't know any better, I'd now believe that Hoover developed a new method to just heat the glass door while the wash water inside the machine is still barely warm. Also, I would rush to see my dermatologist because of a new skin complaint related to hyper-sensitivity to low temperatures: I touched the glass on the washer mid-cycle and I almost scalded myself. Such complaint must also be contagious as I wasn't the only one in my house to experience this. |
Post# 698622 , Reply# 17   8/24/2013 at 14:05 (4,188 days old) by aquarius1984 (Planet earth)   |   | |
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And we ALL know like the manufacturers also know, consumers DONT read instruction manuals or consult lcd displays like WE would.
They know that most people load, push and go - manufacturers are the ones who do the research and make up these special daily programmes for consumers. Candy have conned consumers here and thats the bottom line. At the end of the day if a washing machine dial says 60'c Cotton - one OUGHT to expect just that. NO pressing extra buttons to make it do that because its programmed to do the opposite. No messing around. Thats what consumers want. If Candy had labelled the cycle plain Cottons and the user selected the temperature then fair enough. Defend them all you want - go explain it to a parent up at 3am trying to wash vomit off a childs bed linen hygienically. Ask her whats going thru her mind at that precise moment?? Bet its not reading the instruction manual for a washer. |
Post# 698624 , Reply# 18   8/24/2013 at 14:11 (4,188 days old) by Haxisfan (Europe - UK / Italy)   |   | |
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aquarius1984... you just carry on aimlessly...
The cycle is not labelled Cotton 60... it just says 'Coloureds' on the control panel without the mention of any temperature. I gave you the morale of potential mistake because I know by reading the instruction booklet that this is the standard cotton cycle at 60, having selected the right temperature. |
Post# 698625 , Reply# 19   8/24/2013 at 14:20 (4,188 days old) by aquarius1984 (Planet earth)   |   | |
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from your good self....
"I own the Hoover DYN8163D8P and I tested the temperature myself. There are two cycles that are supposed to wash at 60 degrees. The standard 60 degrees cycle defaults at a temperature of 40 degrees, but this can be visually seen on the display... the user might change the temperature manually." I like your use of the word 'Supposed' - who are you kidding? Your own sentence suggests very well that your machine has 60 degrees C Cottons on its dial. No deviance from a 60 degree cotton cycle. What you obviously FAIL to mention is that you refer to a regualr/generic variable temp cotton cycle where the user selects their temperature themselves. I have no issue with that as it IS upto the user to select a temp that suits. |
Post# 698640 , Reply# 21   8/24/2013 at 15:53 (4,188 days old) by Haxisfan (Europe - UK / Italy)   |   | |
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I see where you come from aquarius1984, but how else could I call a cotton 60 cycle if Which? themselves call it that?
They must've read the manual themeselves... or they got to that cycle by following some kind of logical thinking or perhaps instinct. If they were to make a genuine mistake, they would've selected the cotton 90, as this is the only cycle on the control panel which contains the wording 'cotton' as it's labelled 'Cottons + Pre'. This cycle defaults at 60 when selected, but it can then be changed up to a max of 90 degrees. I wouldn't have thought they'd use that cycle as it includes a prewash. As for my use of the word 'supposed', I'm not sure how you're interpreting it, so, to make it clearer, I said that with my tongue-in-cheek as I understood and I was aware of the point Which? magazine was trying to make... however, I also wanted to point out that on this occasion, they made a mistake. Lastly... I also failed to mention that there's a third cycle which goes up to 60 degrees (didn't think of that cos' I never use it), that is the Synthetic's. Again, you select the program which defaults to 40... then you can play with the temperature up to 60 degrees. But they wouldn't have used this either... as they were clearly looking for a cotton cycle. |
Post# 698641 , Reply# 22   8/24/2013 at 15:57 (4,188 days old) by optima (Cumbria England)   |   | |
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Post# 698655 , Reply# 23   8/24/2013 at 16:54 (4,188 days old) by aquarius1984 (Planet earth)   |   | |
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I guess we will never know what cycle Which? tested on the Candy machines but one thing is for sure if they DID select 60'c and as H-Axisfan mentions is very clear on the display had they have chosen 40'c then the pathetic result of 43'c at the hottest point of the cycle is absolutely disgusting considering it was also the worst of those on test by far.
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Post# 698666 , Reply# 25   8/24/2013 at 17:59 (4,188 days old) by aquarius1984 (Planet earth)   |   | |
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Dex,
The candy machine in question fell a full 8'c below the next competitor. Not 1 or 2. p.s this is a forum and if you dont like me posting my opinions, comments, and findings then il advise you not to talk back. Change the subject to suit yourself all you like. Just dont expect any aspects to be dropped just for your personal liking. Cheers . |
Post# 698669 , Reply# 26   8/24/2013 at 18:15 (4,188 days old) by Haxisfan (Europe - UK / Italy)   |   | |
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Yes, it is pathetic... didn't they realise that they were using the wrong cycle? The cotton 60 cycle 'coloured 60' whatever you want to call it... does a much hotter wash then 43 degrees... and what is really pathetic here is the way Which? magazine is spreading incorrect information amongst their readers.
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Post# 698681 , Reply# 28   8/24/2013 at 19:22 (4,188 days old) by pierreandreply4 (St-Bruno de montarville (province of quebec) canada)   |   | |
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one thing that needs to be noted is with time or year the manufacturer might change the model abit by redesigning the model like take for exemple my 2004 duet set and compare the washer with this year model as you might notice the model was change eather the washer is american canadien or european over time all washer dryer models change or are redesign to show the changes to the model.
And also if it was not for internal heater in washers water temp would be dumb down Exemple: {this is not a critic} like say if a uk washer usaly list 40 when the wash water is set to 40 witch is warm wash on my washer would like be cool at 39 or 38 degrees like i said this is just an exemple i am not making a critic here this also depends on the energuide label or energy rating on european washers CLICK HERE TO GO TO pierreandreply4's LINK ![]() |
Post# 698684 , Reply# 29   8/24/2013 at 20:08 (4,188 days old) by optima (Cumbria England)   |   | |
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Post# 698696 , Reply# 30   8/24/2013 at 21:13 (4,188 days old) by pierreandreply4 (St-Bruno de montarville (province of quebec) canada)   |   | |
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Post# 698708 , Reply# 31   8/24/2013 at 22:12 (4,188 days old) by logixx ![]() |
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I could only find a preview for the testing norm - see link.
BTW: yes, as the test fabric is folded and loaded in a specific way into the washer. I've seen it myself and also got to mix the detergent that went in the wash. webstore.iec.ch/preview/info_iec6... |
Post# 698771 , Reply# 34   8/25/2013 at 09:18 (4,187 days old) by Aldspinboy (Philadelphia, Pa)   |   | |
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Post# 698772 , Reply# 35   8/25/2013 at 09:25 (4,187 days old) by logixx ![]() |
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Post# 698777 , Reply# 36   8/25/2013 at 10:19 (4,187 days old) by logixx ![]() |
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"So german test with 8 manufacturers (Candy or Hoover must be 1 of them inthere)"
They tested a Candy EVO 1483DW-84. Looks like this one didn't have a regular Cotton cycle, but only the one for the energy label. It heated up to 54C. Among the five other washers without a regural Cotton cycle, it was only surpassed by a Miele top loaders that heated to 58C. Alex |
Post# 698778 , Reply# 37   8/25/2013 at 10:26 (4,187 days old) by Aldspinboy (Philadelphia, Pa)   |   | |
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Post# 698806 , Reply# 40   8/25/2013 at 12:44 (4,187 days old) by Haxisfan (Europe - UK / Italy)   |   | |
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Dex, I'm sure the 60 cycle in your Candy would be the same as what the German testers revealed. If you measured the temp of the glass, chances are that you're not going to have an accurate reading... beside, the temp would've dropped after 15 min as the machine ona standard cycle is likely to heat the wash water only once.
I too agree with almost everything which has been said here, however, as a further contribution, I'd say that I'm actually pleased that the machine gives me 50 odd degrees instead of 60 on that particular cycle, cos' at the end of the day, I see it as an addition, and should I want a real 60 degree cycle I only need to use the appropriate option. When I got the Dynamic, I despised the fact that it didn't have middling temperatures like my older washer, especially the 50 degree option. Besides... I just folded those towels I washed yesterday on that very cycle and they feel, look and smell so clean... I honestly couldn't complain :-) Now I'm wondering... would it be the case with all the other cycles? E.g. Cotton 40 only heats to 35 degrees and so forth? I have to test that! |
Post# 698825 , Reply# 42   8/25/2013 at 13:42 (4,187 days old) by pierreandreply4 (St-Bruno de montarville (province of quebec) canada)   |   | |
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i would say that even if i use on occasion warm water or hot water even do most of the time i use cold water i would say energy rating or not we should not be prevented ,the temp we need eather those temps are warm 40 degrees 60 hot or 30 cool or cold
depending on washer model when needed we should have the option to chose what tem we need its sad to see that most washer maker decided to dumb down water temp its like when they decided that all washers should be all cold rinse. |
Post# 698828 , Reply# 43   8/25/2013 at 13:47 (4,187 days old) by hotpoint95622 (Powys)   |   | |
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My two pence worth..
I’m afraid manufactures are short changing on temperature to gain the eco ratings it’s all to easy with modern electronic control boards to program the CPU and drop the achieved temperature either by the programming its self or by the hardware by which I mean the thermistor which measures the temperature and it’s associated circuits.. This all started way back with the first all electronic machines and some like the examples that can be seen with my Hotpoint 95622, the motor control board also hosts the thermistor control circuit this in turn controls the timer hold solenoid, this machine is billed as low energy thus dropping the temperature by approximately 10c on a normal wash, selecting the super wash option brings it up to the higher temperature and all this is above board because the temperatures are not shown on the program guide on the machines consol, so what I’m trying to get at is for the most the temperatures are not stated on most modern machines… If you look at our vintage machines like my Hotpoint 1851/03 and 18680 and Gary’s Hoover A3190 which all use mechanical timers and bi-metal thermostats is much harder to alter, only quirky differences in the stats change things a bit, some exceptions to this are timed heating used mostly for 50c programs which can differ because of factors like hard water deposits or the timer slowing with age and so on. Unfortunately this is a debate that could go on and on and on…. Apologies if this isn’t very well compiled it’s due to toooo much of the red stuff :-) … |
Post# 701241 , Reply# 49   9/4/2013 at 20:12 (4,177 days old) by pierreandreply4 (St-Bruno de montarville (province of quebec) canada)   |   | |
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well look at the picture in my avatar that was my grandmother inglis whirlpool dryer lsted her 40 years without a single repair she had an old inglis liberator washer the push to start kind of model with brush fliter witxh she replace in 1988 i was 14 at the time lasted her a longtime as well, credit to the original poster of the pic but i think eather the washer is a top load or front load they should put in the qualaty of there vintage counterpart while making sure they are energy star qualified.
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