So you think you're washing at 60 degrees?


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Thread Number: 48157
So you think you're washing at 60 degrees?

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Post# 698107 8/22/2013 at 11:22 (3,897 days old) by hoovermatic (UK)
Checkrate/Likes My Which magazine arrived today and given the article in yesterdays news about washing at 30 degrees, I was interested in reading this article (most of which I have tried to include here): The 60°C wash setting on washing machines frequently doesn't actually reach 60 degrees, Which? testing has discovered. We tested the 60°C cotton programs of 12 washing machines to find out the highest temperature reached and how long the top temperature is maintained. Eight of the 12 machines did not reach 60 degrees at all, with the lowest top temperature being 43°C on the Hoover DYN8163D8P-80. Most of the washing machines kept the water cooler than 50°C for the majority of the wash program. To see the full results of our testing, check out our guide to whether it's worth washing at 60°C. Cleaning up the myths: Which? washing machine expert Adrian Porter said: 'For years, the conventional wisdom has been to use the 60°C program to make sure your laundry comes out squeaky clean and free of bugs and bacteria. 'But while a 60°C wash does generally do a slightly better job of cleaning than at 40°C, the temperature of the water won't actually kill all bacteria, even if your machine is one of the models that reach 60°C. The real key to wiping out bacteria seems to be using a good laundry detergent to wash them away.' We found that while a 60°C wash cleans slightly better than a 40°C wash, it also increases running costs by 57% on average. Are washing machine manufacturers cheating? Even though we found machines often didn’t hit 60°C, manufacturers are not actually cheating the EU energy labels because there’s no requirement for the washing machine to reach the temperature stated on the control panel. Without that requirement, manufacturers can, in theory, not heat the water as much to save on energy costs and improve their ratings. As the guidelines are currently so relaxed, we think the energy label is not a transparent and fair way to compare washing machines. We’ll be meeting with the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs, which oversees the energy label in the UK, to present our evidence about washing machine temperatures.

Post# 698120 , Reply# 1 8/22/2013 at 12:23 (3,897 days old) by Aquarius1984 (Planet earth)
Checkrate/Likes Interesting to see what does and what didn't great properly. No surprise candy was crap on that aspect. Have probed temps on our Bosch and thankfully out does what it days on the tin when not using eco perfect. All other washes do as they say

Post# 698156 , Reply# 2 8/22/2013 at 14:48 (3,897 days old) by dj-gabriele ()
Checkrate/Likes *frequently doesn't actually reach 60 degrees* So much for the news... it's 10 years that everybody knows this! It happened since the arrival of the A+ and higher classes of effiency. But luckily just pressing the "intensive" or "stainblast" or watherver turns the 60°C ECO cycle in a classic, real, 60°C wash! (Or simply select a non ECO 60°C cycle...) And times can be shorter too.

Post# 698157 , Reply# 3 8/22/2013 at 14:51 (3,897 days old) by logixx (Germany)
Checkrate/Likes The June issue of our consumer magazine dealt with the same problem. These are the results (with the brand names removed). Not one Cotton Eco cycle reached 60C while most regular Cotton 60C cycles did. The table includes both the Eco (light gray) as well as the regular cycle (dark gray) - temp in °C - cycle duration - approx. cost in Euros - energy consumption in kWh The values are for 50% loads

Post# 698171 , Reply# 4 8/22/2013 at 15:37 (3,897 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)
Checkrate/Likes 1 *How Long Have I Been Saying This?* Thermal action of wash water temps >160F are good for sanitation but it is more a combination of pH level (alkaline is better),chemicals (detergents, bleaches, etc...) and mechanical action that provides a bulk of the work. By shifting soils and biofilms off laundry you are sending most of the germs and what not suspended in water down the drain. Yes, they may still be alive but that does not befront most persons. The easiest commonly found on laundry bacteria to destroy would be E Coli. It takes only wash water held at 160F to 166F for about ten minutes to deal with most strains. Then there are other germs, fungi, molds, viruses that would require temps >200F for extended periods to kill.

Post# 698177 , Reply# 5 8/22/2013 at 15:52 (3,897 days old) by Haxisfan (Europe - UK / Italy)
Checkrate/Likes *Honestly... Which? are full of... flunnel...* I just unwrapped my which? magazine and I quickly browsed through the pages but I couldn't find this article... what page is it on? I own the Hoover DYN8163D8P and I tested the temperature myself. There are two cycles that are supposed to wash at 60 degrees. The standard 60 degrees cycle defaults at a temperature of 40 degrees, but this can be visually seen on the display... the user might change the temperature manually. If 60 is selected, the washer will heat the water close to that temperature only once... then it would have probably cooled down considerably by the end of the main wash. Having said that, this is only one side of the coin. By choosing the 'Stain Blaster' feature, the machine will heat the water to that temperature as many times as it is required. In my book this translates into flexibility and it's something that deserves praise instead of criticism. The other program that goes up to 60 degrees is a rapid cycle which will heat to this temperature provided that the user follows the manufacturer's instructions, namely they wash the recommended size load (3.5kg) on that cycle. If the weight of the clothes exceeds this limit, or the load is particularly absorbent, the washer will load more water than what the cycle is designed for... therefore, it will not be able to heat it up to temperature in the 35 minute main wash with a heater as small as 1200 watts. It's just the opposite as the Bosch eco perfect system... instead of selecting it... you have to deselect it. Shoddy work by Which?

Post# 698328 , Reply# 6 8/23/2013 at 04:06 (3,896 days old) by electron1100 (England)
Checkrate/Likes *Honest Hoover Who Else :-)* It is an interesting thread this one, I have tested my Hoover A3190 with a digital thermometer and the results are as follows. This machine has two wash cycles one low level and a high level one, so I have measured the temperature when the initial heating stage is finished, and at the end of the low level wash cycle. It then fills up to high level this part of the cycle has a reheat stage for 40o the time for this can be between 2 and 8 minutes depending on the temperature of the cold water. I then measured the temperature of the water being pumped out at the end of the high level wash cycle. These are the results: Prog E 40o Cottons initial heating to 40.9 then 41-42o pump out temperature 38o Prog D 60o Cottons initial heating to 55o then 61o pump out temperature 57o Prog C 90o Cottons initial heating to 80o then 89o pump out temperature 85o The difference in the initial heating temperature and the final temperature on the low level wash is due to the wash times being of different lengths, as the machine will carry on heating throughout most of the wash cycle So no problems there Gary

Post# 698358 , Reply# 7 8/23/2013 at 09:13 (3,896 days old) by AquaCycle (West Yorkshire, UK)
Checkrate/Likes Hi Gary, That's very interesting. I shall have to test this out on the cottons cycles on my Miele over the weekend. Watch this space :) Chris

Post# 698363 , Reply# 8 8/23/2013 at 09:41 (3,896 days old) by PassatDoc (Orange County, California)
Checkrate/Likes *Question re: UK machines* Hot and cold water line fill? Or cold water fill only?

Post# 698378 , Reply# 9 8/23/2013 at 10:44 (3,896 days old) by electron1100 (England)
Checkrate/Likes *Hot or Cold Fill* My machine is hot and cold fill but I only use cold fill, it heats water so quickly there is little point in flashing up the multipoint (boiler) for it Gary

Post# 698383 , Reply# 10 8/23/2013 at 10:49 (3,896 days old) by electron1100 (England)
Checkrate/Likes 1 *Testing machines* being interested in most things electro mechanical, I like to know what appliances are doing, I wish in a way at times I could just use something without thinking about what goes into it and how it works, I have met people who don't even know what make there washing machine is ?????? amazing Anyway good luck with your testing Chris

Post# 698476 , Reply# 11 8/23/2013 at 16:50 (3,896 days old) by logixx (Germany)
Checkrate/Likes Mine heats to the selected temp unless I press the Eco button, which reduces any temp by 10C (except for the 20C setting, of course). The Cotton cycle defaults to Eco and Heaviest Soil - deselecting these options takes almost an hour off the cycle. Unfortunately, the machine will only heat the water once.

Post# 698480 , Reply# 12 8/23/2013 at 17:00 (3,896 days old) by nrones ()
Checkrate/Likes 1 *Nothing new* about temperatures, it's been like that since A+ (-10%) and other came up on the market, after that, they were converted to the new energy label that goes up to A+++, and yet manufacturers now offer even A+++(-50%). How did you think they do it? However, customers are cheated a little bit less than before. In 2013, every washing machine on the market (by EU regulations) must have a 20c cycle in some way available, and clearly labeled 'standard cycles' -see image. But, the fact that it's a standard cycle labeled like that, doesn't mean anything to the normal customer. They don't know what does it really mean... All machines's 'Standard' cycles with A++ rating, or above have 2 bad points: - Ridiculously long - 3 and a half hours or more. - Temperatures aren't even close... ('standard 60' is around 40, 'standard 40' is actually around 30) And it's deffinately not upto manufacturer - all of them are in it Thankfully, all the machines have other programmes, which do the job just as they should - normal times, on selected temperature, decent rinses... so there's nothing to worry about...yet...until they make a regulation that all cycles must be super ecological. Still, I must say I'm really not a fan of the Energy label, as some things just aren't clear enough. Not just this about temperatures, but the Rating for the wash performance as well, I mean, every single washer on the market has the A for wash rating, and nobody knows the criteria...does anyone? Here's the preview of how new regulations affected Hoover washing machine - the identical model, old (upper) and new version

Post# 698520 , Reply# 13 8/24/2013 at 00:34 (3,895 days old) by dj-gabriele ()
Checkrate/Likes *and nobody knows the criteria...does anyone?* Not really: it's as standardized as it can possibly be. Down to the formula of the detergent used and the composition of the load and even the WAY TO PUT THE GARMENTS IN THE DRUM. I'll fetch the relevant UNI EN norm if you want to know more.

Post# 698522 , Reply# 14 8/24/2013 at 01:04 (3,895 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands)
Checkrate/Likes That would be nice Gabriele! I read about it in the past, can't find it anymore.

Post# 698553 , Reply# 15 8/24/2013 at 06:43 (3,895 days old) by nrones ()
Checkrate/Likes *UNI EN norm* yes, I would love it so much! If the washing rating was more strict, and closer to normal usage of normal customer, the manufacturers wouldn't have came up with idea to reduce 60 down to 40 - they understood they were still getting the results of an A rated wash anyway. Also, Wash rating is related to capacity...Those ridiculous capacities can't work with all of the clothes. There is a specific type and thickness of cotton, placed in the drum with some special methods, so the wash is possible... it's just a nonsense. Anyways, it deffinately should be changed. Rating and criteria where everyone got the best mark is enough to show something is wrong. And here's a little summary about what "A" wash rating currently is: A wash rating is (for example) 7 kg of special cotton, loaded with the special method into the 49-52l drum (depending on the manufacturer), displayed 60, washed at 40, for around 4 hours, rinsed 2 times in low water level... ...now when I see it in one sentence, it doesn't even look ridiculous, it looks sad, just sad :( Dex

Post# 698617 , Reply# 16 8/24/2013 at 13:24 (3,895 days old) by Haxisfan (Europe - UK / Italy)
Checkrate/Likes *But it was a mistake...* Dex, you don't need to make up excuses for this phenomenon when washing a 60 degrees Celsius on modern washing machines. The 12 machines tested by Which? were supposed to be tested on the Cotton 60 cycle but only 11 of them were tested at this temperature, the Hoover was tested on the Cotton 40 cycle instead. I'm not saying that they did that deliberately (although they probably did LOL), as the 'Cotton 60' cycle on this model of Hoover defaults at 40 when selected and one can clearly see that on the display... so you basically get a Cotton 40 cycle instead. In order to get the Cotton 60... once the knob has been positioned onto the 60max cycle, you still need to browse the available temperatures and change it to 60 (then you'd get something like 55 like the other down2earth machines). I used the standard cotton 60 this morning and, having read the Which? article, if I didn't know any better, I'd now believe that Hoover developed a new method to just heat the glass door while the wash water inside the machine is still barely warm. Also, I would rush to see my dermatologist because of a new skin complaint related to hyper-sensitivity to low temperatures: I touched the glass on the washer mid-cycle and I almost scalded myself. Such complaint must also be contagious as I wasn't the only one in my house to experience this.

Post# 698622 , Reply# 17 8/24/2013 at 14:05 (3,895 days old) by aquarius1984 (Planet earth)
Checkrate/Likes And we ALL know like the manufacturers also know, consumers DONT read instruction manuals or consult lcd displays like WE would. They know that most people load, push and go - manufacturers are the ones who do the research and make up these special daily programmes for consumers. Candy have conned consumers here and thats the bottom line. At the end of the day if a washing machine dial says 60'c Cotton - one OUGHT to expect just that. NO pressing extra buttons to make it do that because its programmed to do the opposite. No messing around. Thats what consumers want. If Candy had labelled the cycle plain Cottons and the user selected the temperature then fair enough. Defend them all you want - go explain it to a parent up at 3am trying to wash vomit off a childs bed linen hygienically. Ask her whats going thru her mind at that precise moment?? Bet its not reading the instruction manual for a washer.

Post# 698624 , Reply# 18 8/24/2013 at 14:11 (3,895 days old) by Haxisfan (Europe - UK / Italy)
Checkrate/Likes *No defending any1... sticking to facts...* aquarius1984... you just carry on aimlessly... The cycle is not labelled Cotton 60... it just says 'Coloureds' on the control panel without the mention of any temperature. I gave you the morale of potential mistake because I know by reading the instruction booklet that this is the standard cotton cycle at 60, having selected the right temperature.

Post# 698625 , Reply# 19 8/24/2013 at 14:20 (3,895 days old) by aquarius1984 (Planet earth)
Checkrate/Likes *Quote* from your good self.... "I own the Hoover DYN8163D8P and I tested the temperature myself. There are two cycles that are supposed to wash at 60 degrees. The standard 60 degrees cycle defaults at a temperature of 40 degrees, but this can be visually seen on the display... the user might change the temperature manually." I like your use of the word 'Supposed' - who are you kidding? Your own sentence suggests very well that your machine has 60 degrees C Cottons on its dial. No deviance from a 60 degree cotton cycle. What you obviously FAIL to mention is that you refer to a regualr/generic variable temp cotton cycle where the user selects their temperature themselves. I have no issue with that as it IS upto the user to select a temp that suits.

Post# 698638 , Reply# 20 8/24/2013 at 15:46 (3,895 days old) by nrones ()
Checkrate/Likes Aquarius1984, I am not defending anyone, even more I've clearly wrote that I think the whole situation is sad. However, since your first post, you are writing "Candy is crap, Candy conned customers etc." while it's clearly mentioned that there were 8 brands in total, and in logixx's post even more of them. Why bringong so much attention to Candy only, when it's clear enough all manufacturers are doing it? Dex

Post# 698640 , Reply# 21 8/24/2013 at 15:53 (3,895 days old) by Haxisfan (Europe - UK / Italy)
Checkrate/Likes I see where you come from aquarius1984, but how else could I call a cotton 60 cycle if Which? themselves call it that? They must've read the manual themeselves... or they got to that cycle by following some kind of logical thinking or perhaps instinct. If they were to make a genuine mistake, they would've selected the cotton 90, as this is the only cycle on the control panel which contains the wording 'cotton' as it's labelled 'Cottons + Pre'. This cycle defaults at 60 when selected, but it can then be changed up to a max of 90 degrees. I wouldn't have thought they'd use that cycle as it includes a prewash. As for my use of the word 'supposed', I'm not sure how you're interpreting it, so, to make it clearer, I said that with my tongue-in-cheek as I understood and I was aware of the point Which? magazine was trying to make... however, I also wanted to point out that on this occasion, they made a mistake. Lastly... I also failed to mention that there's a third cycle which goes up to 60 degrees (didn't think of that cos' I never use it), that is the Synthetic's. Again, you select the program which defaults to 40... then you can play with the temperature up to 60 degrees. But they wouldn't have used this either... as they were clearly looking for a cotton cycle.

Post# 698641 , Reply# 22 8/24/2013 at 15:57 (3,895 days old) by optima (Cumbria England)
Checkrate/Likes *So you think your washing at 60* This is so interesting, just tested my current 1997 Bosch washer & it heated the water to 61deg on the 60deg colourfast programme.

Post# 698655 , Reply# 23 8/24/2013 at 16:54 (3,895 days old) by aquarius1984 (Planet earth)
Checkrate/Likes *Dex* I guess we will never know what cycle Which? tested on the Candy machines but one thing is for sure if they DID select 60'c and as H-Axisfan mentions is very clear on the display had they have chosen 40'c then the pathetic result of 43'c at the hottest point of the cycle is absolutely disgusting considering it was also the worst of those on test by far.

Post# 698663 , Reply# 24 8/24/2013 at 17:46 (3,895 days old) by nrones ()
Checkrate/Likes *aquarius1984* Ahh, nothing new then...Candy's 43 degrees is killing people, spreading illness, and other manufacturer's 44 or 46 is much better and not disgusting...yeah right, objective discussion...in dreams... Now back to the subject..did anyone find the norm for the wash performance rating on EU label? I'm really more and more curious about it :) Dex

Post# 698666 , Reply# 25 8/24/2013 at 17:59 (3,895 days old) by aquarius1984 (Planet earth)
Checkrate/Likes Dex, The candy machine in question fell a full 8'c below the next competitor. Not 1 or 2. p.s this is a forum and if you dont like me posting my opinions, comments, and findings then il advise you not to talk back. Change the subject to suit yourself all you like. Just dont expect any aspects to be dropped just for your personal liking. Cheers .

Post# 698669 , Reply# 26 8/24/2013 at 18:15 (3,895 days old) by Haxisfan (Europe - UK / Italy)
Checkrate/Likes *Pathetic 43* Yes, it is pathetic... didn't they realise that they were using the wrong cycle? The cotton 60 cycle 'coloured 60' whatever you want to call it... does a much hotter wash then 43 degrees... and what is really pathetic here is the way Which? magazine is spreading incorrect information amongst their readers.

Post# 698674 , Reply# 27 8/24/2013 at 18:52 (3,895 days old) by nrones ()
Checkrate/Likes Aquarius1984 - who are you advising not to talk back? I approached this discussion objectively, not telling a word for any brand in particular. I pointed out general situation, I am the one that took all aspects and you? Look at the picture Logixx attached, there is 44,46,47,48 degrees (I was referring to that info.), and Blanky974 who owns that exact machine confirms higher temperature than than 43. Those are the aspects you obviously didn't look at, as well as you didn't even bother to see how the control panel of mentioned machine looks, otherwise yo'd have understood him quicker. So german test with 8 manufacturers (Candy or Hoover must be 1 of them inthere), and user of the particular machine are spreading false rumors? Might be... There are many people who don't like some brand, and it's ok, however pointing that much negativity on one of them, when others are clearly very close is..well, I'll let you decide Thanks for the advice not to talk back btw :) Cheers Dex

Post# 698681 , Reply# 28 8/24/2013 at 19:22 (3,895 days old) by pierreandreply4 (St-Bruno de montarville (province of quebec) canada)
Checkrate/Likes *also one thing that needs to be noted is washer models chang* one thing that needs to be noted is with time or year the manufacturer might change the model abit by redesigning the model like take for exemple my 2004 duet set and compare the washer with this year model as you might notice the model was change eather the washer is american canadien or european over time all washer dryer models change or are redesign to show the changes to the model. And also if it was not for internal heater in washers water temp would be dumb down Exemple: {this is not a critic} like say if a uk washer usaly list 40 when the wash water is set to 40 witch is warm wash on my washer would like be cool at 39 or 38 degrees like i said this is just an exemple i am not making a critic here this also depends on the energuide label or energy rating on european washers CLICK HERE TO GO TO pierreandreply4's LINK

Post# 698684 , Reply# 29 8/24/2013 at 20:08 (3,895 days old) by optima (Cumbria England)
Checkrate/Likes *Whirlpool Duet* Pierrieandreply4 I'm just looking at your matching washer & dryer & i'm wondering why are the doors on the washer & dryer different. Why has the washer door got a flat top but the dryer has a rounded top, what is the reason for this.

Post# 698696 , Reply# 30 8/24/2013 at 21:13 (3,895 days old) by pierreandreply4 (St-Bruno de montarville (province of quebec) canada)
Checkrate/Likes my actual model is a 2004 generation 1 duet while the model link to the whirlpool ws is a 2013 model and on this idk as well must be the washer was made this way hard to say

Post# 698708 , Reply# 31 8/24/2013 at 22:12 (3,895 days old) by logixx (Germany)
Checkrate/Likes I could only find a preview for the testing norm - see link. BTW: yes, as the test fabric is folded and loaded in a specific way into the washer. I've seen it myself and also got to mix the detergent that went in the wash. webstore.iec.ch/preview/info_iec6...

Post# 698744 , Reply# 32 8/25/2013 at 03:41 (3,894 days old) by nrones ()
Checkrate/Likes *Thanks Logixx!* That's really interesting, and again, more and more pointing out how it's not even close to anything anyone would do in their home. I wonder what will we find out till the end of this Book (I never thought a norm would have 137 pages :P), if we ever find a complete version Dex

Post# 698752 , Reply# 33 8/25/2013 at 06:20 (3,894 days old) by Hoover1100 (U.K.)
Checkrate/Likes *Why cheat customers out of the wash they wish to use?* If you select a 60c cycle, you expect 60c water, no if's, no buts, same as for any other temperature. If the manufacturer is going to offer "eco" cycles then fine, but if they only heat to say, 45c, then they should state that it is a 45c cycle so that there is no confusion! Lets be honest though, the difference in engergy consumption between a 60c cycle in an older front loader, with short wash times and higher water levels, and a modern A++++++++++++ whatever machine on a 60c which takes 4 hours to wash with barely any water is absolute pittance so the whole idea of "eco" washing cycles is completely pointless! Yes modern machines use less water, but energy consumption is pretty much the same, and if as in my case my water is not metered and I pay a set amount regardless of what I use, I really couldn't care less about how much (cold) water my machine uses! But someone has to think of a way to keep people buying new machines, even if it is just confusing marketing. Matt

Post# 698771 , Reply# 34 8/25/2013 at 09:18 (3,894 days old) by Aldspinboy (Philadelphia, Pa)
Checkrate/Likes So is 60 c about 140 f...or...? Thanks. Darren k

Post# 698772 , Reply# 35 8/25/2013 at 09:25 (3,894 days old) by logixx (Germany)
Checkrate/Likes Right.

Post# 698777 , Reply# 36 8/25/2013 at 10:19 (3,894 days old) by logixx (Germany)
Checkrate/Likes "So german test with 8 manufacturers (Candy or Hoover must be 1 of them inthere)" They tested a Candy EVO 1483DW-84. Looks like this one didn't have a regular Cotton cycle, but only the one for the energy label. It heated up to 54C. Among the five other washers without a regural Cotton cycle, it was only surpassed by a Miele top loaders that heated to 58C. Alex

Post# 698778 , Reply# 37 8/25/2013 at 10:26 (3,894 days old) by Aldspinboy (Philadelphia, Pa)
Checkrate/Likes Thanks Alexander ...Smile. I am going to test my Bosch & Asko and see what comes out, as far as temps. DK.

Post# 698785 , Reply# 38 8/25/2013 at 11:40 (3,894 days old) by nrones ()
Checkrate/Likes Hoover1100, I completely agree with you, 60 should be 60. If they want to have something else, they can write like it was on older AEG's for example 40-60 MIX (a cycle that made same results as 60 on 40 deg actual washing), or something like that. Optima, What temperate would be if you selected Coloureds 60 E (right next to the 60 you talked about) ? :) logixx, What a coincidence, EVO 1483 DW-84 is exactly a 1400rpm Candy sister of the Hoover Which? tested. Interesting that the Haxisfan (owner of the machine) also said it was 55ish, and german test got 54, so I guess this deffinately prooves Which?'s mistake from 2 completely different sides, and now we know the exact temperature Candy is using on the Energy label cycle for sure. Thanks for the feedback :) I did a Normal Cottons 60 today in my Candy (2010 model, old energy label, A+ rated) and the temperautre of the glass door at the end of the main wash (which was 15-20 minutes after heating) was 49c Dex

Post# 698797 , Reply# 39 8/25/2013 at 12:23 (3,894 days old) by dj-gabriele ()
Checkrate/Likes *Yes modern machines use less water, but energy consumption i* Not at all! My old Candy Alisé 16WD from 1985 uses a whopping 1,7 kWh of energy for the 110 minutes 60°C cycle, along 110 litres of water. My modern Candy CMF125 uses 0,85 kWh and 39 litres of water for a 180 minutes wash. Wash time is longer but energy use is much less and water is much much less without compromising rinse quality. And when energy is expensive and water is metered and expensive, trust me you'll notice the difference. As for the norm, I'm sorry I can't post the complete text because my digital signature is watermarked on all the pages but I'll gladly show you folding instructions and some other amenities when I'll get back home from the holidays.

Post# 698806 , Reply# 40 8/25/2013 at 12:44 (3,894 days old) by Haxisfan (Europe - UK / Italy)
Checkrate/Likes Dex, I'm sure the 60 cycle in your Candy would be the same as what the German testers revealed. If you measured the temp of the glass, chances are that you're not going to have an accurate reading... beside, the temp would've dropped after 15 min as the machine ona standard cycle is likely to heat the wash water only once. I too agree with almost everything which has been said here, however, as a further contribution, I'd say that I'm actually pleased that the machine gives me 50 odd degrees instead of 60 on that particular cycle, cos' at the end of the day, I see it as an addition, and should I want a real 60 degree cycle I only need to use the appropriate option. When I got the Dynamic, I despised the fact that it didn't have middling temperatures like my older washer, especially the 50 degree option. Besides... I just folded those towels I washed yesterday on that very cycle and they feel, look and smell so clean... I honestly couldn't complain :-) Now I'm wondering... would it be the case with all the other cycles? E.g. Cotton 40 only heats to 35 degrees and so forth? I have to test that!

Post# 698808 , Reply# 41 8/25/2013 at 12:56 (3,894 days old) by Hoover1100 (U.K.)
Checkrate/Likes *DJGabriele* Your old Candy must use a pretty high water level on the wash then! I don't know the figures for my Hoover Logic but the wash water level (i.e. the only water that's heated) is just to the rim of the drum, not much more than a modern machine really! Yes I would be more concerned if my water was metered (and many people here do have metered water), or if I lived somewhere where water shortages and drought were a problem, but mine isn't and we have massive surplusses of water where I live, so I don't concern myself with water usage lol. Even if the difference were considerable, I'd probably still use the old machine because I can't be doing with these 2-3 hours wash times, 60-90 mins is more than long enough in an old machine and (in my case) doesn't make a difference to energy costs. Matt

Post# 698825 , Reply# 42 8/25/2013 at 13:42 (3,894 days old) by pierreandreply4 (St-Bruno de montarville (province of quebec) canada)
Checkrate/Likes *lest water in washer or not we should not be prevented to us* i would say that even if i use on occasion warm water or hot water even do most of the time i use cold water i would say energy rating or not we should not be prevented ,the temp we need eather those temps are warm 40 degrees 60 hot or 30 cool or cold depending on washer model when needed we should have the option to chose what tem we need its sad to see that most washer maker decided to dumb down water temp its like when they decided that all washers should be all cold rinse.

Post# 698828 , Reply# 43 8/25/2013 at 13:47 (3,894 days old) by hotpoint95622 (Powys)
Checkrate/Likes My two pence worth.. I’m afraid manufactures are short changing on temperature to gain the eco ratings it’s all to easy with modern electronic control boards to program the CPU and drop the achieved temperature either by the programming its self or by the hardware by which I mean the thermistor which measures the temperature and it’s associated circuits.. This all started way back with the first all electronic machines and some like the examples that can be seen with my Hotpoint 95622, the motor control board also hosts the thermistor control circuit this in turn controls the timer hold solenoid, this machine is billed as low energy thus dropping the temperature by approximately 10c on a normal wash, selecting the super wash option brings it up to the higher temperature and all this is above board because the temperatures are not shown on the program guide on the machines consol, so what I’m trying to get at is for the most the temperatures are not stated on most modern machines… If you look at our vintage machines like my Hotpoint 1851/03 and 18680 and Gary’s Hoover A3190 which all use mechanical timers and bi-metal thermostats is much harder to alter, only quirky differences in the stats change things a bit, some exceptions to this are timed heating used mostly for 50c programs which can differ because of factors like hard water deposits or the timer slowing with age and so on. Unfortunately this is a debate that could go on and on and on…. Apologies if this isn’t very well compiled it’s due to toooo much of the red stuff :-) …

Post# 698837 , Reply# 44 8/25/2013 at 14:17 (3,894 days old) by dj-gabriele ()
Checkrate/Likes *use a pretty high water level on the wash* Not really you see the water only when it fills and starts heating, as soon as the load saturates there's no visible water, it's a two water level machine 19/14 depending if the 3/5 kg button was depressed or not. So it was really efficient for the time, I'm sure I read that a contemporary Hoover used as much as 160 litres per wash! And held 4,5 kg only instead of 5. On standard wash it's 19 litres plus 4 rinses plus cooldown with pureg so a total of 6 water fills, since the load is not spun at the end of the wash you save those 4 litres to the nominal 110 instead of 114 (19*6) and gosh, it's so accurate I metered how much water it used :D But the real consumption starts when the machine starts drying, exactly a litre every 100 seconds! For the two 80 minutes drying cycles needed for the 5 kg of laundry it takes some other 100 litres of water! :O

Post# 698838 , Reply# 45 8/25/2013 at 14:30 (3,894 days old) by Hoover1100 (U.K.)
Checkrate/Likes *Hoover water consumption* It's 134litres in total, but the wash I assume is only 14 litres, as from having a look around it's 120 cold plus 14 hot as far as I'm aware this is the same for all Hoover automatics from at least the 70s to the early 90s. It does a cooldown and 3 rinses, the wash load is rated at 5kg but like with most machines old and new it would be a struggle to cram exactly 5kg in, so 4-4.5 is probably more realistic (it will hold a summer weight double duvet with room to spare though!) I have always been shocked by the amount of water water condensing dryers use to dry! I was going to mention the "low energy programmes" of the mid 80s Hotpoints, ofcourse someone like us would read the manual and know to select super wash, but the average housewife would probably have never even glanced at it and was completely unaware that the wash was carried out at a lower temperature than expected. Matt

Post# 698843 , Reply# 46 8/25/2013 at 14:55 (3,894 days old) by dj-gabriele ()
Checkrate/Likes *amount of water water condensing dryers use to dry!* On the Candy a total cycle would take a whopping 6,1 kWh! Just as much a current Candy uses for a 8 kg load, washed and dried... and the water my old machine used to dry now is total consumption! Sure technology went on the good path, at least for the drying part of combination machines! :D BTW, there's a little video of when I was trying the machine! As you can see there's not much water showing even in the cool down. Oh, I do really love it, childhood memories and on top of that it DOES wash well! And stuff dried in there are so fluffy and soft! CLICK HERE TO GO TO dj-gabriele's LINK

Post# 699217 , Reply# 47 8/27/2013 at 07:41 (3,892 days old) by glenfieldmathk1 (Glenfield-Leicester-UK)
Checkrate/Likes *HE7L492 - my new Hotpoint washer* I notice choosing Superwash, or Time save options it heats to 60C on prog3 (Cottons standard 60), however not pressing options it heats up less (around 50ish), even if the temp dial is on 60. adjusting the temp ie higher or lower, does give an actual temp though. Plus you've got prog 2 (whites) & 6 (Anti-allergy) which heat and hold at temp chosen - Whites for an hours, and anti-allergy for 30mins. while prog 10 (Fast wash 60) heats to selected temp and doesn't hold. On the Hotpoint it does mention in the manuals that the temp will be less than that stated on cottons (prog 3) at 60, and cottons (Prog 4) at 40. I notice however Hoover don't specify this, or at least I haven't seen it anywhere.

Post# 701036 , Reply# 48 9/4/2013 at 05:47 (3,884 days old) by capecodlaundry ()
Checkrate/Likes *How about Manufacturers have INTEGRITY and GOVERNMENT stay o* The main point of all design SHOULD be to CLEAN the clothes not lie to consumers about temperatures, and other specifications. All of these companies should be litigated for producing defective misleading products. There is plenty of energy around we just need to use IT! It is always very interesting how every company has sustainability or GREEN mission statements yet they produce products that fail AS SOON AS THE WARRANTY IS EXPIRED and their product ends up in the recycle. HOw about they build something to LAST, stop using cheap plastic parts, and provide replacement parts and service that is NOT more expensive than purchasing a "NEW" machine. Refrigerators lasting barely 5 years, washers mabye 2 or 3 completely absurd! Our grandmothers washer lasted for 10 or more years the refrigerator at least 20 years and that was with 1950's technology! TOday nothing even comes close a very sad story indeed! Likewise the consolidation in the industry where 6 or 7 BRAND NAMES are all made by WhirlPoor or WCI does NOTHING TO PROMOTE COMPETITION and development of better long lasting products. Like the US BELL SYSTEM monopoly these should be divested and sold to completely INDEPENDENT owners free to make OUTSTANDING QUALITY PRODUCTS and SERVICE!

Post# 701241 , Reply# 49 9/4/2013 at 20:12 (3,884 days old) by pierreandreply4 (St-Bruno de montarville (province of quebec) canada)
Checkrate/Likes well look at the picture in my avatar that was my grandmother inglis whirlpool dryer lsted her 40 years without a single repair she had an old inglis liberator washer the push to start kind of model with brush fliter witxh she replace in 1988 i was 14 at the time lasted her a longtime as well, credit to the original poster of the pic but i think eather the washer is a top load or front load they should put in the qualaty of there vintage counterpart while making sure they are energy star qualified.

Post# 701590 , Reply# 50 9/6/2013 at 15:32 (3,882 days old) by capecodlaundry ()
Checkrate/Likes *Humm I'd say a top load* Definitely looks like my grandmothers top load Whirlpool I think as well. Unless they had a load door in the drumn that is like those used on Raffle tickets or Bingo NIghts when they pick out the winning NUMBERS or TICKET!

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