Thread Number: 48705
Bosch Dishwasher
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Post# 705562   9/27/2013 at 01:03 (3,861 days old) by LLMaytag (Southern California)        

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So as I indicated on my posting about deciding between a SQ AWN432 or 542, I'm soon to move to a new home. We're having some work done on that house first, and one of the things already done was the removal of a really worn out Kenmore tall tub dishwasher. I'm happy with my electronic panel Whirlpool short tub, but these are no longer available. Consumer reports rates the Bosch Ascenta dishwashers as "best buys." Does anyone have experience with this line of Bosch? I downloaded a Care and Use manual, which shows that they are really efficient on water, but I'd rather know how many washes/rinses they machine performs. Does anyone know?

Thanks!



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Post# 705593 , Reply# 1   9/27/2013 at 04:58 (3,861 days old) by RE563 (Fort Worth, Texas)        

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I have a Bosch for a while, Mine was SHX47*** (IIRC), Hidden control panel. Mine did not have the auto sense; however, On Normal if it sense that the soil was light it would do a purge, main washer, two after rinses with the last rinse heated to 156 degrees to sanitize the load. For more heavily soiled loads it would
do the purge one to two pre-rinses, main wash, two after rinses.


Post# 705648 , Reply# 2   9/27/2013 at 10:27 (3,860 days old) by logixx (Germany)        

logixx's profile picture

The least you'll get is a wash and two rinses. Even the super-efficient Europea units change the waer at least three times.

 

Alex


Post# 705674 , Reply# 3   9/27/2013 at 12:08 (3,860 days old) by LLMaytag (Southern California)        
Bosch

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That's good to know about the Bosch, thanks! My current Whirlpool only does a full two rinses when there's a hi-temp wash, otherwise it's a wash, purge, then rinse. (The normal wash with hi-temp wash selected, or the Pots & Pans.) As it is, I only use the Pots & Pans cycle which does two washes and two full rinses and even with this, I usually do a rinse-hold first, then I load up the open detergent dish with a lot of Cascade, and just a dab in the closed dispenser this way I'm assured of a good rinse.

Post# 705862 , Reply# 4   9/28/2013 at 06:39 (3,859 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        

Well, Bosch are well made, do good job on rinsing, overall, good machines.
Of course they can't beat Miele quality wise, but I heared that sometimes the change to Miele on a dishwasher can take a while to get used to because of the baskets which are really different to a BSH machine or any other, but, they are more flexible in loading anyway.
But 50db seem pretty loud to me. We now have a slimline modell with 45db and you rally hear the differenz between our old Siemens 50db machine.
If a upgrade in price would not be a to big deal (it is listed on bestbuy a 130$ more, pretty some, , i would rather sugest this modell because with only 46db, it is half that loud and IMHO it looks way more sneak and stylish, has a load sensor and variable spray presure (means and upgrade on the pump) and if my iterpretation of the BSH sites pictures is right, the cheaper one got a simple float switch, the priceier one does have presure switch and it got adjustable feet (don't get how they could build one without?)...


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Post# 706001 , Reply# 5   9/28/2013 at 21:41 (3,859 days old) by jerrod6 (Southeastern Pennsylvania)        

I looked at the user manual and it makes reference to the Eco Sense Wash Management System. It says that this system will determine if a second fresh water fill is required. I don't know when this is. Does this mean that it will normally rinse once after the wash but can rinse two times if it thinks it needs to? Does this mean it will do a pre-wash(Pre rinse) but then not change the water for the main wash?

Post# 706114 , Reply# 6   9/29/2013 at 13:44 (3,858 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        

Well, this seems pretty simular to the Auto cycle used here in the EU.
It does a two way sensing:
1: There is a kind of light beem with a sensor anywhere near the pump. The washer fills first with water for a kind of prewash. After a certain time (15-20min in general) the washer decides if the water is pretty dirty or not to much. If there is a lot of dirt, the water is exchanged partially or completley. Now this sensing effects the amount of water being used at all, the temperature and duration of the mainwash and the number of rinses (in heavy cases only, see below).
2: The time-to-heat-up sensing. During the first 5 minutes it starts heating to a certain temperature (45°C normaly) to help determining if the soils are more backed on or just loose on the dishes together with the photoscopic sensor (mentioned above). Now after all the photoscopic sensoring is done, the dishwasher continues to heat up to 45°C or 55°C depending on your modell. Now the PCB knows how long it takes to heat empty to this temperature, how long with a half and how long with a full load. Depending on this monitoring, the cycle time and temperatures are adjusted just right.

Now, through all of this sensing and so on, the washer does in the most cases after the mainwash a only handwarm (heated by heatexchanger and residual heat) rinse and then the final hot rinse with rinse aid followed by drying.


Post# 706139 , Reply# 7   9/29/2013 at 16:34 (3,858 days old) by jerrod6 (Southeastern Pennsylvania)        

henene4

I have a dishwasher with a sensor and it acts the same way as you describe. It will skip the fill for the main wash if it can use the prewash water. It will reduce the time of the prewash and main wash if the load size is small and the soil is light. It will also add a 3rd rinse if it finds the first rinse has too much soil or suds. What is bothering me is the statement in the manual because it does not say when the 2nd fresh water fill is taken.

If it refers to between the prewash and main wash that's ok with me, but if it is saying that you normally get one rinse after the main wash and maybe sometimes two if the DW thinks it is needed that is another thing. I am concerned about only getting one rinse after the main wash.


Post# 706171 , Reply# 8   9/29/2013 at 19:20 (3,858 days old) by logixx (Germany)        

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There should be always two rinses. Maybe, if the water is very clear, it might only do one(?) but I have always gotten two rinses - even if I run the machine empty with some citric acid. The rinse sequence can be:

rinse. rinse
purge, rinse, rinse
purge, rinse, purge, rinse
rinse, rinse, rinse

Am not sure if the dishwasher actually uses the increase in temperature as a load indicator. I know AEG/Electrulux units do that. Bosch uses the speed of the pump to determine if enough water has entered the tub. If it runs at a steady speed, the water level is sufficient. From a service manual:

While water is being circulated, the BLDC motor (Brushless DC Motor)
signals different states to the power electronics via the current
consumption of the individual windings:
► No water,
► too little water, snorkels
► adequate water level, (true running)
► pump blockage.


Post# 706309 , Reply# 9   9/30/2013 at 09:26 (3,857 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        

No, they do it the way E-Lux does it as I oftenly recognize a jump from 95-85min down to 65 min and that is the point when the water starts to get really hot. But the thing with the motor: Is it only on brushless ones? Because ours has brushes (I think?)?

Post# 706311 , Reply# 10   9/30/2013 at 10:02 (3,857 days old) by PassatDoc (Orange County, California)        
My Bosch is twelve years old, has never needed a service cal

I have a 300-series (entry level) with hidden controls. In 2001 this was known as the "Integra design" line. They had the same features as the front control panel 300-series machines but cost somewhat more because of the hidden controls/plain front panel. This was pre-Ascenta. The front-panel 300 model was just under $500, my machine cost $600.

There were two 300-level versions, one had PowerScrubPlus/Normal/Rinse-Hold, the other had PowerScrubPlus/Normal/Quick Wash. I have the latter model and am happy that I do, because the machine cleans so well (even if I take a week to fill it) that Rinse/Hold isn't necessary, and sometimes Quick Wash is adequate for lightly soiled loads (like having people over for coffee and snacks). Quick Wash is also useful for cleaning items other than flatware, glasses, or dishes (see below on how I clean my refrigerator storage bins). Quick Wash is only 30 minutes, some companies label their 30 minute cycle as "Party" cycle to emphasize its usefulness in entertaining.

From inspecting Ascenta models in the store and from reading their specs on the Bosch website, there are two differences that I have noticed:

1. The bottom of the tub (in the models I have seen in person) is plastic rather than steel. The sides/back/top are steel. The main function of a steel interior is not to look pretty or to last longer than plastic, but to provide a surface for the water evaporation off your plates to condense. The high temperature of the final rinse will hasten this process as long as you use a rinse agent (Jet Dry or equivalent)  . At the end of the cycle, your dishes will be dry, but the tub sides will be wet---this is normal operation for this machine. Bosch does not have a "heated drying" option and there is no exposed heating element.

 

2. The Ascenta machines appear to operate at higher decibel levels than the 300/500/800 series and presumably they didn't spend as much money on soundproofing. My 2001 model 300 series was rated at 52 dB back then which is equivalent to today's Ascenta models (making me think that the amount of soundproofing used on my machine is equivalent to what they do on today's Ascentas) and it's plenty quiet. I could hold a card game in the kitchen. It seems that today's 300/500/800 series now run in the mid to upper 40s dB range, quieter than the previous generation.

 

My qualm with Ascenta would be the long-term durability of the plastic-steel junction at the bottom of the tub. Would it ever separate or leak in the long run? I don't know that it would, and Ascenta has been around long enough (five years?) that you'd think someone on this site would have posted information on the long-term reliability of the tub. CR gives great reviews but their testing does not follow the machines for ten years (and in this case, since there is a cost-saving innovation in the tub, which is a departure from traditional Bosch design, I'd want to know long term data on that tub).

 

What is nice to know is that CR's testing shows Ascenta and 800 Bosch models coming in at 80-81 on their rating system. (what is odd is that the 300s and 500s had the same subjective ratings---two "excellents" and two "goods" but lower numerical scores). Ascenta got the "Best Buy" designation because "Best Buy" combines score with price. The high end Kenmores got ratings as high as 85, but at twice the price do not meet CR's "Best Buy" criteria----though they were rated as "recommended".

 

One feature I love about my current machine is the tall item sprinkler. The top rack comes out and the sprinkler attaches to the water outlet along the rear tub wall. Lets you wash large items in the lower rack, which for me means refrigerator shelves and bins, as well as large cookware like baking pans. Give them a Quick Wash and they look brand new again. My guess is that with the switch to third (cutlery) racks that new machines with the third rack no longer have the tall item capability. If Ascenta has retained the tall item sprinkler, that would be a reason for me to buy one, even if I weren't sure about the plastic/steel tub issue. The lower price would help ease concerns about tub durability. 52 dB is quiet enough for me.


Post# 706313 , Reply# 11   9/30/2013 at 10:12 (3,857 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        

A nother thing would be the float switch. There only has to be somthing fallen down underneath the float, keep it stuck in the "filled" position and the whole pump+heater would go poof...

Post# 706423 , Reply# 12   9/30/2013 at 18:48 (3,857 days old) by logixx (Germany)        
I oftenly recognize a jump from 95-85min down to 65 min

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*Could* also be the AquaSensor making adjustments as it comes on several times during the main wash.

The tall item sprinkler is available on the 3rd rack models, too. The rack is removable.


Post# 706678 , Reply# 13   10/1/2013 at 23:05 (3,856 days old) by PassatDoc (Orange County, California)        
@logixx

Good to know re: tall item sprinkler. Even the USA Bosch website fails to mention the tall item sprinkler as a feature, so I was concerned that perhaps they had done away with it. I use it to clean so many things that aren't plates, glasses, cookware, or flatware. It's the best refrigerator shelf and bin cleaner in the history of the world (top rack removed, tall sprinkler installed, 30 minute Quick Wash cycle).

Post# 706767 , Reply# 14   10/2/2013 at 13:15 (3,855 days old) by stephenk (Plains)        

I bought a Bosch Ascenta series dishwasher and installed it just about a year ago. I'm attaching a link to my old thread about it.

I've been really happy with it. Sometimes I wish I would have bought a Whirlpool model with the door-mounted silverware holder to free up more rack space. And, the Bosch dishwashers have a slightly smaller interior than Whirlpool.

But, my top priorities were good cleaning and quiet, and the Bosch cleans very well and is very, very quiet.


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Post# 706968 , Reply# 15   10/3/2013 at 09:45 (3,854 days old) by PassatDoc (Orange County, California)        
@stephenk

Thanks for the report. You may be the only long-term owner of an Ascenta, as least no one else has posted here about it. Good to know that your machine works well and has been trouble free thus far. The only discernible differences I can see between Ascenta and the 300/500/800 lines are less soundproofing (higher dB) and the tub, which uses steel on all surfaces except the bottom, which is plastic/steel.


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