Hey all!

It is apparent that I have too many odd sized objects that I want to cram into my KA and am wondering if I can use commercial standard plastic racks like the ones from Vollrath or something like that? I need a rack with no tines. 

The vollrath's I've been looking at supposedly measure to 19.75" square, my rack measures wheel edge to wheel edge 20" if I am measuring it correctly... I need 1/8th inch on each side... Unless the 19.75 will fit? Has anyone tried this? Or does anyone know of a carrier I can use to hold the rack?

I suppose I could always order the racks and see if I can find a way to mount pegs on it or something so the rack can slide?

I am too used to loading a commercial washer rack to the gills and haven't quite adjusted to this rack... I'd probably order a rack with tines as well.

I still am hoping the part numbers and what-not pop up for that Undermount Hobart wash-arm conversion, I hadn't used my DW for a few days and when I did last night, the wash arm wouldn't spin.. I took the arm off, put it back on and it spun freely... something must have gotten in the bushing or something, but I have a feeling the arm is going to need replacing at some point... The arm feels like there is a slight bit of play while on the peg and the one from my donor machine is cracked...

With all of this said, I am surprised with all the SubZero and Wolf type appliances on the Market (brands made to mock commercial equipment) that someone hasn't made a consumer dishwasher that uses commercial racks... If I could find a machine like an under counter hobart that would let me use general consumer grade cascade and had a dry cycle, I'd be all over it.

 jeff_adelphi, please please post more pictures!!!

If you have an extra carrier, I'll purchase it from you if you don't need it.

That being said, I am going to try to make one... A family member owns a metal shop so I'm gonna put my resources to work... 

SteveT, I don't suppose you have a cad drawing of that carrier do you? :P What is this European 18 you are talking about, how do you mean dumbed down and I didn't know the WM series existed... I have to find one of those now, that stainless tank is beautiful! What are the timer cycles, does it have a water heater?

With that, as far is this machine being worth all the money for conversions... Baring anything catastrophic happening to the tank, I should be able to get parts for almost everything except the timer, right? I mean, Hobart still makes a pump that fits this machine if I read correctly, and if I converted to the new style commercial wash arm, those parts would be available, the seals are still available, no? Given the way the constant rinse arm is, that is a wash either way if I ever replace it, and I have two middle racks now though one has a broken china guard.

If the timer fails, I know enough in electronic engineering to get my self in trouble.. Given how this machine was mechanically timed to begin with, it could be electronically controlled and customized and programmed because all it really would be is relays clicking on and off driven by an arduino controller. If the dispensers failed, I could seal those off or even put a glass window in the door and run a commercial chemical dispensing pump to flow in with the water fill, all driven off of that controller... 

All of that said, the answer is yes, because this 'tank' of a dishwasher still cleans better than anything I've experienced today and it has so much potential once things start failing... Granted I can get the main parts that matter... Seals and pump housings mostly.

I have always liked appliances and gadgets and what have you, but hobart and kitchenaid have always been the most fascinating machines/companies (granted kitchenaid was a division) to me... I wished I could find spec sheets and users guides from the machines that were made that crossed over to eachother. That still has my heart just pounding away that there is a commercial version of the KDS. Thank you so much for posting that PDF.

William637,

Would you be willing to post a picture of one of the racks in it? What KA do you have? If you got back to me with a pic, I could have my racks here by monday :-)

I miss catering... I'm 26 and have had way too many jobs that I should ever admit to, but cooking has always been a passion of mine and I loved catering... Did it for 2 years almost... I only took the job because the lady I worked under was very well known for her food and I wanted her to teach me everything. When I finally left (didn't get along with the greedy owner anymore) she gave me 8 binders of recipes she had created that he stole from her and started his business with... Told me to take them and start a business someday. I'll get back to my true passion someday... 

I've always found it easier to cook for 200 than for 1... ...

toploader,

After just learning these machines existed, I spent all of last night scouring through the archives (via search) and through hobarts resource library to find out as much as I can... These are beautiful!!! 

I appreciate the link!

I *HAVE* to find one to add to my collection... There are a few LX's and such on ebay for a few hundred dollars, but the one I really want looks like it has gone through a kitchen fire... I can't imagine how some of these machines have been treated in their commercial life... Would they be worth the investment, I mean they are being discarded for one reason or another... Commercial Kitchen Owners don't just decided one day that they want a new dishwasher lol...

SteveT, 

I was looking again at the wash arm support, the white round plastic diverter or what ever it is is fixed into place... I am not sure what caused the arm to not spin, but when I tried to manually spin it, it took a lot of force to turn it... like turning a steering wheel while parked. After I lifted it up and put it back down, it spun freely with no resistance... I'm hoping it was just a freak occurrence. 

If I knew the condition of the pump/seals on the KDI-58 I used as a donor, I'd start messing around with it this winter and make an electronic controller for it... It showed signs of a leak when I was robbing parts. The more I keep thinking about these WM machines, the more I want to find one or two just so I can rebuild one and make a completely custom interface for it and get rid of the short timer.. I'd just want one with the sump heater and no the booster heater so I could stay with 125 volt... Swap out the temp probe with one I could get variable resistance readings on (assuming the ones that are used are a 180 on / off type thermometer) and have it fill, heat to 140 wash / 180 rinse then run for how ever long, drain and repeat...  I could control everything, make it use a bit less water by having less cycles than the domestic machines, it'd heat the water like the stupid new front load washers and run... 

I was gonna snoop through Ephemera and see what I could find about the WM's and there isn't anything lol... But the resource library has given me a lot... Just confused about the booster's vs sump heaters..

*edit* Found this... Please send the pdf! Please lol...  

Post# 240758 , Reply# 12   10/6/2007 at 8:04pm (2,190 days old) by stevet (palm coast florida)       posts: 1,456

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Not many of those oldies out there any more!

Sorry, Neptune,
The last undercounter Hobart Dishwasher to use the cast iron blue beauty washarm was the Kitchenaid 14 series which was discontinued in 1964 and replaced by the now famous Hydrosweep arm used first in the 15 series There are still some out there. There were some still in boxes when Whirlpool took over and even some large distributors across the country had some still boxed up. In fact, in one of the forunms at Kitchenaid.com. one of the moderators mentioned that they had found a brand new 14in one of the warehouses. I suggested that they place it next to the KD10 they have at the Kitchenaid Museum in Greenville Ohio. 

But the Last Commercial undercounter to used the arm (p/n 73515) was the model UM series and that was oficially discontinued in late 1979/1980 though there were still some being installed after that. I was told by a highly placed sales manager that the reason the UM was actually discontinued was because the dies had finally worn out and there was no interest in retooling for new ones. Pretty plausable since they had already been producing the 15,16 and 17 machines and had introduced the 18 series by then.
They were still producing the WM series which was based on the 15/16 tanks and did so until the early mid 80's when they released the WM-5 Series. Now this was based on the 18 series but the tanks were actually brought over from Europe. It was unique in that the whole tank was made from a single sheet of Stainless Steel which was punched and bent and then folded and roller sealed to form a complete dishwasher tank.

The European units were more complicated than the American units and they also used the same designs for the KDS18E series machines, made in Germany and distributed to the rest of the world for Domestic consumption!
I have pictures of that unit in PDF format if anyone would like to see it. It is to large a file to post here.

For the record, the last Big machine Hobart made with the cast Iron washarms(top and bottom) was the AM10-11 series.Talk about a wall of water!! This was a radical departure in Electrical design of Hobart dishwashers. It was the first machine they produced that had Solid State controls. It had a master board to which numerous other boards were clipped on to control the timer, fill, motor protection and temperature functions.
The following model paved the way for lighter Stainless steel embossed arms which had large openings in the upper and lower washarms similar to the look of the holes in the Hydro Sweep arm only much bigger. Another wall of water machine. This unit continued with the controls of the previous 10-11 models.

The next improvement came in 1983/84 with the AM14 series which shared all the mechanicals with the 12 series, but now had a single control board to do all the functions of washing and rinsing the dishware. Unique to this machine was the electrical controls were all 24 volts which improved the reliability of the machine tremendously. As technicians, we appreciated the durability and ease of repairing these units. There were only a few typical mechanical repairs that they ever needed and it was very rare to have to replace a conrtol board on one. Even to this day there are some very old am14 machines with all their original electrical controls working day in and day out.

Boy do I get long winded! Sorry Guys!

You just gave me an idea how I wanna do my timed tempering valve for my 'modern' washer that doesn't get hot... 

Anyways, how do you guys do the shower curtain or plexiglass to watch the inside of the machine? I wanna see how this machine runs because I'm wondering if something isn't wrong with the middle arm... For the life of me, I can not get plastics clean in the top rack and they seem to warp in the bottom with the heated dry...  This machine doesn't seem to like plastics or I have something wrong lol..

And I agree about the stainless, it would be nice to be able to drill some holes if I wanted to modify something... I've got to find me a WM...

OK, so I got my racks today.. ... They don't fit :( Mainly because all 3 said they had specs of 19.75" and none of them matched each other. One is 19 11/16" one is 19 1/4" and the last is 19 5/8".

All is not lost. I am going to bolt strips of acrylic as shims/rails for the racks to slide on... Hopefully my plan will work.. I just need to figure out a solution that won't rust or mold when its all together. I imagine sealing it or bonding it will be involved some how...

In the back of my mind I keep thinking I should just go get a few packs of those cheap flex cutting boards from walmart and cut strips and make layered support shims on the sides.. They'd be NSF etc... I think....

SteveT, I guess the reason I didn't think there was a gasket in the arm support was because I didn't see the one that was already there... The one that came off of the donated support was stuck to it, I presumed it went around the top part... So, there is indeed a seal there... I'll have to order the shims and get an impeller from you or some where at some point though because when I spun the impeller by hand it was rubbing on the housing on one side.