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Thread Number: 49317
KD 20 or 21? |
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Post# 713613 , Reply# 1 11/6/2013 at 22:17 (3,821 days old) by rp2813  (Sannazay) |
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| Post# 713614 , Reply# 2 11/6/2013 at 22:35 (3,821 days old) by mattntn (Jackson, TN) | ||
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The 21 is a Superba and the 20 is a Patrician | ||
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Post# 713620 , Reply# 3 11/6/2013 at 23:52 (3,821 days old) by rp2813 (Sannazay) |
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The Superba has the Sani-Rinse option, the Patrician does not.
The Superba has a reversing motor and failure prone check valve, the Patrician has a non-reversing motor and snapping solenoid. Choose your poison.
The Superba has, I believe, "Automatic Water Heating," but if I'm not mistaken, it also sits and heats the water in the beginning, which I'm pretty sure is how the Patrician works. I'm a little sketchy on the heating behavior of the Superbas from the 21 series and later.
Being a Hobart machine, the Patrician may offer better parts availability than the Superba.
I'm not so sure I'd feel the Superba was worth the additional six hours round trip. | ||
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Post# 713637 , Reply# 5 11/7/2013 at 04:57 (3,820 days old) by chachp (North Little Rock, AR) |
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I just took out a KDS21 in favor of a KDS20
And personally I think the 20 is doing a better job of cleaning. They both stop and heat the water for the initial prewash on most of the cycles. I think the Low Energy on the 20 is the only one that doens't but I'd have to go back and look at the book because I don't use that cycle very often.
While my 20 is a Superba and your 20 is a Patrician I think the parts that really matter are pretty much the same. When I was faced with the decision I chose the 20 and I'm happy with the performance plus you get all the great sounds of the 20 and less series machines. The 21 is a little quieter than the 20 if that matters to you. The 21 is where things seem to start changing and in my opinion not for the better. The main thing I didn't like about the 21 was only one final rinse. The dishes in the 20 just seem cleaner or brighter or something to me and I think it's the extra rinse that really makes a difference. The 21 does seem to have a better filter system to look at but I really haven't had any issues with redeposited food on my dishes on the 20. I think it's obvious which machine gets my vote. :) | ||
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Post# 713646 , Reply# 6 11/7/2013 at 07:11 (3,820 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md) |
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KD20 or KD21 Both machines are 100% Hobart designed and maybe built, that should not be a factor in your decision. The 21s had a much more robust and durable pump, no chewed up plastic drain impellers and loose cooling fans on the motor. Even though the 21 will probably need a new CV rubber insert it is still less trouble than the drain valve on earlier machines.
But as others have pointed out the 21 and later machines really only rinse once, so for this reason alone I would get the KDP-20. I have been using the electronic KDSS-20 in my kitchen for the past 8 years along with a 1987 WP DU8000 and while the KA is a cool machine it just can't match the top rack cleaning of the WP, the drying ability of the WP [ both are always used on air-dry ] and on top of that the KA often stinks from bits of food left in the sump and filter.
The KA will get moved to the museum and another identical WP installed in the kitchen at some point soon. | ||
| Post# 713655 , Reply# 7 11/7/2013 at 09:17 (3,820 days old) by bogo (montreal) | ||
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I would get the one with less rust. | ||
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Post# 713822 , Reply# 10 11/8/2013 at 00:37 (3,820 days old) by rp2813 (Sannazay) |
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Give the wash arm a spin when you examine the machine. If it spins freely, it's probably fine. If it jitters its way around, you may have some repairs to consider.
I think you can simply listen to the jets of water hitting the door to assess wash arm rotation. You can also open the door during a wash cycle, note the position of the wash arm, re-start the machine, then open the door again after a several seconds and check for movement.
If all goes well, you can start hunting down a set of stainless door and panel inserts next.
I'm not sure if a rinse aid dispenser came standard on Patricians of the 20 series. It will at least have a blank plug where the dispenser filler goes, and one can be added without much trouble. I believe the timer has the dispensing trigger built in and the wiring is already in place, so it would just be a matter of connecting the terminal on the dispenser to the lead. | ||
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Post# 713845 , Reply# 11 11/8/2013 at 04:23 (3,820 days old) by chachp (North Little Rock, AR) |
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Stainless Panels?
If you decide you want stainless panels for your machine set up an eBay Followed Search for this part number. B-241677. There aren't any out there at the moment but this seller seems to have a stock pile of them because it seems every time they sell a set another gets posted. These will fit your machine. This is the set I put on the 20 and the 21.
I have seen them on some of the appliance repair websites in the past and they are generally around $60 I think. You may be able to get them cheaper from the eBay seller. I will likely do a video of my 20 this weekend. To do them I used a very cheap, clear plastic shower curtain cut to size and some clear packing tape. It wasn't perfect but it gets the job done. I'd love to have a plexiglass door fit for my Kitchen Aids but I don't seem to have the patience to make something like that happen. :) | ||
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Post# 714087 , Reply# 13 11/9/2013 at 05:23 (3,818 days old) by chachp (North Little Rock, AR) |
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KDS-20 Video
Well, I attempted to make a video of the KDS-20. I started with a Rinse and Hold which worked but it seemed to me that I would be moving more water. It seems to me the upper arm should have more force. The hose that powers the upper arm is in good condition, no cracks or splits. I am very happy with the performance of this machine so maybe it's just how this one works.
I recall someone saying one time that the Rinse and Hold uses less water so I attempted another video of a regular wash cycle. Well it went through the heating (that common complaint of these dishwashers) and when it started to wash it blew out my window. So I suspect I will get more movement in the Full Cycle but we'll just have to wait and see. Does anyone know if the cycles use different amounts of water? I will attempt a wash cycle another time. Here is the Rinse and Hold. | ||
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Post# 714098 , Reply# 14 11/9/2013 at 06:22 (3,818 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.) |
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| Post# 714127 , Reply# 15 11/9/2013 at 10:57 (3,818 days old) by toploader55 (Massachusetts Sand Bar, Cape Cod) | ||
As far as I know...
Yes, the Rinse and Hold and I'm pretty sure the first prewash (preheat) cycle is a shorter fill.
My 20 sounds like yours during the first prewash cycle. I never use rinse and hold as I want to challenge the cleaning ability everytime. The upper wash arm was never designed to break any land speed records. But as long as you're getting the right amount of pressure and height of the water coming out of the jets, it's the cleaning and flushing which is what we're after. Have you checked the upper wash arm feed tube on the bottom side ? My first 20 had issues cleaning the upper rack, so when I removed the feed tube for inspection it crumbled apart in my hand as the bottom was totally rotted. The 20s are excellent machines only to be trumped by the KDS-18. | ||
| Post# 714171 , Reply# 16 11/9/2013 at 13:49 (3,818 days old) by mattntn (Jackson, TN) | ||
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Well I picked it up today. :) Needs some TLC but overall in good shape. The was arm spins but a little wobbly. Would that mean I need a new support? How easy to find and install? | ||
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Post# 714176 , Reply# 17 11/9/2013 at 14:15 (3,818 days old) by chachp (North Little Rock, AR) |
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Can't wait to see pics! | ||
| Post# 714183 , Reply# 18 11/9/2013 at 15:07 (3,818 days old) by toploader55 (Massachusetts Sand Bar, Cape Cod) | ||
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Wobbly Wash Arm | ||
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Post# 714244 , Reply# 19 11/9/2013 at 19:46 (3,818 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md) |
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Upper Rack Washing In KD18-23 KA DWs It looks about right to me, as Eddie said the top wash arm in almost any DW does not have nearly the force of the lower arm [ this was designed this way to protect glasses and plastic items from damage ], however KAs of this vintage were worse than many, as I have said several times my 1980s WP cleans much better than my KDSS-20 ever does in the top rack. | ||
| Post# 714263 , Reply# 20 11/9/2013 at 22:01 (3,818 days old) by mattntn (Jackson, TN) | ||
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Ok - dumb question: Does anybody know where to find a wash arm support for this machine?? It seems to wash ok but I know it's just a matter of time before that will have to be done. | ||
| Post# 714293 , Reply# 21 11/10/2013 at 04:08 (3,818 days old) by toploader55 (Massachusetts Sand Bar, Cape Cod) | ||
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Wash Arm Support | ||
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Post# 714311 , Reply# 22 11/10/2013 at 06:24 (3,817 days old) by chachp (North Little Rock, AR) |
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What makes the 18 better than the 20?
I am curious. When I look at the two machines they look so similar. The only bad thing I ever heard about the 18 was that the upper wash arm didn't get into the corners very well. Did they introduce some energy saving features in the 20 that affected it's washing capability? I do like the fact that the 18 still has the constant rinse at the top.
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Post# 714321 , Reply# 23 11/10/2013 at 07:39 (3,817 days old) by chachp (North Little Rock, AR) |
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This one is off of a 19 series.
Does anyone know if this will work for him? There is no part number listed in the auction.
CLICK HERE TO GO TO chachp's LINK on eBay | ||
| Post# 714323 , Reply# 24 11/10/2013 at 08:04 (3,817 days old) by mattntn (Jackson, TN) | ||
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Thanks again for the info. I'm definitely watching that one on eBay. Emailed dr Steve for advice on that question too. Cleaning her up today. :)) 
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Post# 714333 , Reply# 25 11/10/2013 at 09:11 (3,817 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md) |
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KA DW Wash Arm Supports | ||
| Post# 714360 , Reply# 26 11/10/2013 at 10:27 (3,817 days old) by mattntn (Jackson, TN) | ||
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I know - I hate to get that one if it's no better than what I already have. | ||
| Post# 717420 , Reply# 30 11/24/2013 at 12:21 (3,803 days old) by mattntn (Jackson, TN) | ||
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Sooo glad to have something made by them in my kitchen! And I still keep scouring the ads for others. It's like an addiction!! Lol 
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Post# 717440 , Reply# 31 11/24/2013 at 13:43 (3,803 days old) by rp2813 (Sannazay) |
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Post# 717487 , Reply# 33 11/24/2013 at 18:01 (3,803 days old) by chachp (North Little Rock, AR) |
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Here is the KDS-20 Steve is talking about. | ||
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Post# 717522 , Reply# 34 11/24/2013 at 21:23 (3,803 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md) |
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SS Panels For DWs With Panel ready Trim | ||
| Post# 717544 , Reply# 36 11/24/2013 at 23:21 (3,803 days old) by mattntn (Jackson, TN) | ||
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Dumb question but is there a secret to getting the chrome so shiny on yours? I wasn't sure what to use. | ||
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Post# 717590 , Reply# 37 11/25/2013 at 07:53 (3,802 days old) by chachp (North Little Rock, AR) |
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Cleaning chrome
Believe it or not I usually just use the Mr. Clean Eraser Bars. Those things are amazing and don't seem to want to remove any of the black lettering.
I don't think mine was all that bad when I got it. As a matter of fact the chrome on the side still had the plastic on and I had to use the Goo Gone stuff to get rid of the glue after all these years. I really don't think mine had been driven all that hard but the rust staining was so bad on the inside I don't see how that would happen if it hadn't been well used so it's hard to say. I find the Eraser bars also work well to shine up the porcelain. A forum member recommended that I use the Lemi Shine to help clean the inside and I did. I was amazed at what a great job that did. How does the inside of your machine look? | ||
| Post# 717599 , Reply# 38 11/25/2013 at 09:18 (3,802 days old) by Dimitris (greece) | ||
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Post# 717811 , Reply# 40 11/26/2013 at 05:58 (3,801 days old) by chachp (North Little Rock, AR) |
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Bar Keeper's Friend | ||
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