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Thread Number: 49740
LG WASHER SPIDER CORROSION |
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| Post# 718794 , Reply# 1 12/2/2013 at 10:49 (3,791 days old) by nmassman44 (Brooksville Florida) | ||
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| Post# 718795 , Reply# 2 12/2/2013 at 10:49 (3,791 days old) by mark_wpduet (Lexington KY) | ||
Yes
this is going to probably be a busy thread......It has happened a LOT with pretty much most front load washers and *most* all brands have the aluminum spider (including my Whirlpool that almost 9 yrs old)..I do use bleach though.....I don't know why some people have this problem while others don't.. It's a mystery.
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| Post# 718801 , Reply# 3 12/2/2013 at 12:13 (3,791 days old) by washman (o) | ||
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Wow Scary indeed. Was this a FL or HE TL machine? | ||
| Post# 718802 , Reply# 4 12/2/2013 at 12:21 (3,791 days old) by frontloaderfan (Merrimac valley, MA) | ||
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| Post# 718807 , Reply# 5 12/2/2013 at 13:39 (3,791 days old) by ONEWAY88 () | ||
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spider damage / corrosion This is a front load washer from LG. Here is a close up pic.....I can break this aluminum piece with my fingers it is so weak. 
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Post# 718808 , Reply# 6 12/2/2013 at 13:50 (3,791 days old) by henene4  (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany)) |
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Seems like a LOT of residue of what ever this is on the spider... | ||
| Post# 718809 , Reply# 7 12/2/2013 at 13:58 (3,791 days old) by frontloaderfan (Merrimac valley, MA) | ||
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That good close-up confirms it for me: there is an extremely thick waxy build-up on that spider. Possibly fabric softener? I'm sure that contributed to the spider literally dissolving...
Maybe you could share something more about your washing habits, i.e. fabric softener, oxyclean, etc. There may be a common denominator here. | ||
| Post# 718813 , Reply# 9 12/2/2013 at 14:10 (3,791 days old) by frontloaderfan (Merrimac valley, MA) | ||
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fabric softener
I don't think it was so much the aggressive composition of the FS as it was it's waxy coating qualities, which, over time, made it accumulate on the spider. Add to that the fact that the washer, like most modern FL'ers, uses a very small amount of water, plus I think he said he washed in mostly cold water, and you've got a spider that isn't being thoroughly cleansed of FS residue during the next wash cycle, which, in turn, could possibly hold moisture on the cast aluminum, thus accelerating it's decomposition.
It does seem that most of the spider failures I have seen pictures/videos of all have this thick, caked-on residue in common. I recall reading something about the class action lawsuit against Whirlpool in which it was mentioned that WP agreed to change the composition and design of the spider, which would allow it to shed water more thoroughly in order to prevent moisture accumulation, which was suspected to contribute to premature spider failure. Just my take on this scenario, nothing more. | ||
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Post# 718819 , Reply# 10 12/2/2013 at 14:38 (3,791 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.) |
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Post# 718821 , Reply# 11 12/2/2013 at 14:44 (3,791 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany)) |
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Does anyone know if Panasonic or Electrolux (a AEG machine) in europe are using this kind of spider? You kind a scared me know... | ||
| Post# 718888 , Reply# 13 12/2/2013 at 18:08 (3,791 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA) | ||
Closed Door?
Are you closing the door between wash cycles trapping moisture in the tub?
I wonder if excess moisture could be causing the premature corrosion. Otherwise, I would attribute the failure to cheap build quality that I noticed on both my LG washer and dryer and sold them on Craigslist before the one year warranty was up. Malcolm | ||
| Post# 718889 , Reply# 14 12/2/2013 at 18:16 (3,791 days old) by cfz2882 (Belle Fourche,SD) | ||
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bad materials? looks like aluminum alloy used(quite possibly just melted scrap aluminum)was unsuited to use around wash water-possibly too much magnesium in it or just porous... | ||
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Post# 718963 , Reply# 16 12/3/2013 at 07:32 (3,790 days old) by gansky1 (Omaha, The Home of the TV Dinner!) |
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...and there are millions of these out there The metal alloy spider looks just like a corroded pump body on a sixty year old washer made of similar metal, though the pump body was likely a better quality alloy. I think our friend in SD above is probably on the right track. While additives can contribute to buildup and corrosion, it starts with the quality of the metal. Look at the WP spider that was at least twice as old as the LG's, if not more, and see the difference. Other than a light coating of schmutz on the spider, there looks to be very little serious structural compromise.
I know of a 3 year old Samsung washer this exact same thing happened to, the drum actually wore a hole in the outer tub causing a steady leak. While the repair tech was testing the machine, the drum separated from the spider completely and caused a huge racket, subsequently causing a motor failure when it stalled. The extended warranty company replaced the machine, with a model of their choosing - BOL.
Even with the cost of shipping, it is cheaper to melt down scrap than to mine and fabricate new metals and a global multi-billion dollar industry has evolved to satisfy Asia and India's appetites for "raw" materials. Mao Zi Dong dreamed of a steel furnace in every village, and now there basically is. South Korea and China lead the world in metal recycling and everything from junk cars to christmas lights are a valuable commodity. As with many other cottage industries, there is very little regulation and control over how these things are processed and the result can be horrifying. Once the metals are extracted, you can imagine the lack of control that goes into production of new metal products, corners cut to meet demand often results in substandard products. | ||
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Post# 718965 , Reply# 17 12/3/2013 at 07:44 (3,790 days old) by jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers) |
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I'm betting Red got it right poorly recycled aluminum in Asia. LG can't be using Materials Science to build these machines- just melt it, slap it together, and sell it in a wealthy marketplace.
But washer111 has a very good point about liquids they do leave residue chemicals by their very compounding.
Stamped SS as Gansky pointed out to me would be better or they could have even anodized this part and gotten maybe 10 years out of it. Very CHEAP - nice and glitzy up front to attract the eye but don't look for quality down inside- slam it together and get it out the door and the money in the bank. The problem is American manufacturers are being taught that American consumers are not as quality conscious with their spending dollar anymore from these examples. Alliance is building to MilSpec because the Gov't is their biggest customer, not true of GE or WP. For me it not only has to be US Made it has to be Quality US Made. The Japanese had Quality in the 1970's, but today in Japan consumers won't buy SONY products because they aren't made in Japan anymore and so considered shoddy. | ||
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Post# 718972 , Reply# 18 12/3/2013 at 08:21 (3,790 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md) |
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Corroded Aluminum Washer Parts
Almost every automatic washer built over the last 70 years has contained major structural aluminum parts and there have always been corrosion failures at various times.
In this case I would have to believe that the biggest contributor to this very early failure is the lack of using bleach probably combined with other bad laundry habits. If this washer was used commercially there would be almost NO corrosion on the spider, homeowners that keep using the same procedures and laundry products come up with some of the most horrific messes that you can imagine. I had mentioned in another thread that we had installed 8 new SQ TL washers in a condominium laundry last Wednesday. On Saturday an employ and I dissected the 8 10 yo KM DD washers for good parts before sending them to the crusher. And we have all seen nasty pictures of DD washers full of black and brown scum at the top of the plastic outer tub, Well there was nothing in any of these 8 DD washers that were used commercially. The lesson, change products often, DO NOT Skimp on the amount of detergents, use LCB often, use HOT water, and of course leave doors and DISPENSER Drawers open on FL washers. | ||
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Post# 718981 , Reply# 20 12/3/2013 at 10:45 (3,790 days old) by kb0nes (Burnsville, MN) |
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Clearly this outcome is very atypical and quite possibly due to usage.
Still its pretty clear the manufacturer didn't engineer in much margin for such things to happen. A catastrophic failure like this in 3 years wow. Indeed the metallurgy of the casting alloy itself is in question. Being that it is a casting adds the possibility of porosity into the mix. Many alloys of aluminum really aren't all that prone to corrosion, Aluminum is a lot like Core-Ten steel, it forms a passive oxide layer that is protective to the base metal. As mentioned it would be simple for LG to greatly extend the life of these parts (even when usage is less then optimum) by anodizing or perhaps powder coating these spiders. Simply engineering the casting to be smooth and drain well without any catch pockets would likely help a ton too. But it costs money so that's out the window. If I were restoring a machine with an aluminum spider I'd smooth all the flash and mold marks on the casting then give it a good bead blasting. Follow this with anodizing or powder coating and it would outlast us all, indifferent to usage. It is a shame that LG seems to keep coming up with issues, but then again there has never been any company that doesn't have design problems, not today nor in the past. | ||
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Post# 719085 , Reply# 21 12/3/2013 at 20:23 (3,789 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md) |
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Corroded washer spiders
These spiders are operating in EXTREME CONDITIONS in some homes.
The failure we have seen likely has nothing to due with recycled aluminum being used, usually recycled metals are BETTER and more corrosion resistant than virgin metals. Frigidaire has experienced thousands of spider failures in American made washers in as little as three years of use. Anodizing and other epoxy coatings may add a little life, but the real problem is the extremely abusive environment some washers are operated in, I have pulled apart many FL washers after years of use and the spider looks almost new, others look like the one above. | ||
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Post# 719131 , Reply# 22 12/3/2013 at 23:14 (3,789 days old) by thomasortega (El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora de Los Angeles de Porciúncula) |
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All the questions I would make were made by other members... But there's one that i'm really curious... What's going to happen when these spiders start to fail at 1400 or 1600 rpm? LG is getting revolutionary... After the Turbo Drum technology for the top loaders, they are about to launch the Flying Drum technology for the front loaders. I'm sure I know the three things that caused this: Profit, Gain and Programmed obsolescence. | ||
| Post# 719139 , Reply# 23 12/4/2013 at 02:17 (3,789 days old) by mark_wpduet (Lexington KY) | ||
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To Oneway88
Question...Was your door left cracked between cycles? Just curious because I think lots of FL owners leave the doors shut after washer is done.
DADOES - On that picture of the WP DUET drum you posted above, what is that stuff all over stainless steel part of the drum? The spider itself isn't as bad as the LG one, but the whole thing still looks like it's been to hell and back. | ||
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Post# 719165 , Reply# 24 12/4/2013 at 05:48 (3,789 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.) |
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DADOES - On that picture of the WP DUET drum you posted above, what is that stuff all over stainless steel part of the drum? The spider itself isn't as bad as the LG one, but the whole thing still looks like it's been to hell and back.Link to the thread about the refurb project I did last year. CLICK HERE TO GO TO DADoES's LINK | ||
| Post# 719235 , Reply# 25 12/4/2013 at 13:06 (3,789 days old) by electron1100 (England) | ||
Not all ally parts corrode badly
This is a picture of the spider and backplate from my 1971 Hoover Keymatic as stripped from the machine
Until I got it I would have no idea as to what powders would have been used in it, but this machine was made in the pre-bio age and would have gone through those powders when they arrived and probably liquid cleaners when they arrived in the 1980s. The only thing I do know is that where I live in the UK we have very soft water I have seen worse than this, but nothing as terrible as the examples shown by you blokes over there in states, it would worry me too. Though I take the point about inferior quality alloys being used, I have seen pictures of rust spots on so called stainless steel drums from certain Asian manufacturers............ It must be down to cost cutting Gary 
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| Post# 719563 , Reply# 27 12/6/2013 at 09:32 (3,787 days old) by mark_wpduet (Lexington KY) | ||
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yes | ||
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