Thread Number: 49799
/ Tag: Vintage Automatic Washers
Darn that Dominion |
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Post# 719463   12/5/2013 at 16:32 (3,765 days old) by turquoisedude (.)   |   | |
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OR "A Pox on Paul's Pumps"....
So last fall, I wanted to see how well a solid-tub washer would remove dog hair from Canyon's car blankets (retired folk...what can I say?) The wash test at that time was a failure because the blasted Dominion washer wouldn't drain! I had theories about it, but did not get to tinker with it until last weekend... This post was last edited 12/05/2013 at 16:52 |
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Post# 719465 , Reply# 1   12/5/2013 at 16:34 (3,765 days old) by turquoisedude (.)   |   | |
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Post# 719466 , Reply# 2   12/5/2013 at 16:39 (3,765 days old) by turquoisedude (.)   |   | |
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Well, I was right... Like the Westinghouse, the pump impeller had detached from the drive shaft. So I picked up my local phone book and found the Dominion/Beatty parts and service department number - KL5-8736. When I called it they said the number was no longer in service, though...
Back to reality, I knew darn well that a replacement pump for this washer will be impossible to find. I thought a coat of JB Weld might solve the problem. |
Post# 719468 , Reply# 3   12/5/2013 at 16:42 (3,765 days old) by turquoisedude (.)   |   | |
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Post# 719472 , Reply# 4   12/5/2013 at 16:46 (3,765 days old) by turquoisedude (.)   |   | |
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While the Dominion was out for service, I finally got around to repairing the original water valve (thanks again, John, for the valve diaphragms!). I am thrilled to say that I now have the Hot and Warm options for washing and Warm and Cold options for rinsing again!! I still don't think I'm getting enough water into the tub, but I'll tinker with that when (notice I didn't say 'if'!) I get that pump back into service.
So, with two bad pumps now, I am almost afraid to use any of the other washers in the Ogden Laundry... LOL |
Post# 719477 , Reply# 5   12/5/2013 at 17:14 (3,765 days old) by Unimatic1140 (Minneapolis)   |   | |
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Post# 719486 , Reply# 6   12/5/2013 at 17:30 (3,765 days old) by turquoisedude (.)   |   | |
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Post# 719500 , Reply# 7   12/5/2013 at 20:05 (3,765 days old) by Unimatic1140 (Minneapolis)   |   | |
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Post# 719506 , Reply# 8   12/5/2013 at 20:21 (3,765 days old) by swestoyz (Cedar Falls, IA)   |   | |
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I'd be curious to know what the shaft diameter is for Paul's Dominion. The '56 Hotpoint needs a new seal and I figured I could use a Speed Queen seal. Unfortunately the early pumps use a different diameter than the later SQ pumps (60's/70's). And, due to the mounting and pump height differences I can't replace the pump for an SQ one.
Someday I'll figure out a solution, but for now, the Hotpoint is a pretty decoration in the corner of the basement. Ben |
Post# 719598 , Reply# 9   12/6/2013 at 13:29 (3,765 days old) by PhilR (Quebec Canada)   |   | |
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I often wish I had a machine that could inexpensively re-create any NLA part I that need just by entering the part number!
Or better, a machine that could re-create something I want just by typing the model number!
I'm working on that, but so far, it only recreates two-dimensional copies of the objects I want! |
Post# 725162 , Reply# 10   1/5/2014 at 07:09 (3,735 days old) by turquoisedude (.)   |   | |
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So, after the success with the Maytag, I thought I should take a look at the Dominion again. I popped the washer on it's back and opened up the pump chamber.
I was amazed to find that my JB Weld 'repair' to re-attach the impeller to the pump shaft actually HAD worked! It was nice and secure when I checked it. |
Post# 725163 , Reply# 11   1/5/2014 at 07:17 (3,735 days old) by turquoisedude (.)   |   | |
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And here's why it wasn't draining.... This bracket fell out of the pump chamber when I opened it! It must have been blocking the impeller - what it is and where it came from is a mystery, but I reassembled the pump and tried the machine again.
Here's the bad news: I can't seem to get the washer to spin anymore. It will agitate but when it attempts to engage a spin, nothing happens except for some very slight tub indexing... Now this is going to be a challenge - I probably have less service and technical information on this machine than any of the others. I may just have to head back to the museum in Elora, Ontario where I found some Beatty/Dominion appliance information archived there! I have some theories about the machine but I am open to all suggestions! My first impression is that perhaps the motor (already weak) is just not revving up to the right speed when it reverses to go into 'spin'... I'll have to take the cabinet off the machine to get a good look at the transmission, though. I'm just not sure when I'll get to that! There's a very sick Inglis in the basement repair ward and a replacement dry thermostat for a certain GE Combo that is begging to be installed, too! Looks like 2014 will be a fun year for me... LOL |
Post# 732472 , Reply# 12   2/2/2014 at 11:56 (3,707 days old) by turquoisedude (.)   |   | |
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Still feeling somewhat defeated by my lack of progress on the Inglis, I thought today might be a good day to inspect, observe, and try to figure out just why the heck the 58 Dominion decided to stop spinning after all the pump issues seemed to have been sorted out...
I'm really out on a limb here because I have zero in the way of service or technical information about this machine. But hey, I've jumped blindly into these things in the past right?? After the grief with the Inglis, I figured this is the problem: the belt. One nice thing about this washer - you can take the belt off very easily! |
Post# 732473 , Reply# 13   2/2/2014 at 11:58 (3,707 days old) by turquoisedude (.)   |   | |
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Post# 732474 , Reply# 14   2/2/2014 at 11:59 (3,707 days old) by PhilR (Quebec Canada)   |   | |
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Post# 732476 , Reply# 15   2/2/2014 at 12:07 (3,707 days old) by turquoisedude (.)   |   | |
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Now, why would a slick outer surface on a belt be the cause of not spinning?
I wouldn't have thought so either until I sat down and carefully watched how the machine operates. The drive belt links the motor (not shown) with the pump pulley, the transmission pulley and a central drive pulley. The belt is looped with the inside surface of the belt around the pump and transmission pulleys, but the outside surface of the belt contacts that central drive pulley. When the machine is agitating, the motor is running clockwise - the inner surface of the belt still had some 'pull' on it, so the machine had no trouble washing. But to spin, the motor reverses and drives that central pulley to make the tub spin. It takes some force to do this and my theory is that the smooth belt just doesn't grab enough to make the tub spin. Anyway, it's my theory for the moment and I'll know for sure later this week when I try to find a new belt! This post was last edited 02/02/2014 at 14:52 |
Post# 732865 , Reply# 16   2/4/2014 at 17:30 (3,704 days old) by turquoisedude (.)   |   | |
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Post# 732881 , Reply# 17   2/4/2014 at 18:47 (3,704 days old) by pdub (Portland, Oregon)   |   | |
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Post# 732916 , Reply# 18   2/4/2014 at 21:15 (3,704 days old) by turquoisedude (.)   |   | |
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As in '...goes another one of my theories'!
Got the new belt in easily but the darned Dominion still won't spin. I had a lengthy discussion with Phil about this before I put the belt in (therefore it's HIS fault the machine won't spin...LOL) and he was asking me if there was some kind of a clutch or other mechanism that would also engage when the motor reversed for the spin. Well, that I don't know; what I do know is that if I'm going to find out, the cabinet will have to come off to be able to really see what other components might be used to make the washer spin. Off I go into uncharted waters... WHEEEE! I'll post photos as I disassemble, I promise. For tonight though, I'm going curl up next to Canyon and whimper ... |
Post# 732932 , Reply# 19   2/4/2014 at 22:30 (3,704 days old) by Unimatic1140 (Minneapolis)   |   | |
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Post# 733051 , Reply# 20   2/5/2014 at 12:48 (3,704 days old) by jamman_98 (Columbia, SC)   |   | |
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There are some questions on the pic. Hope they are not too dumb but I love to solve a problem. Also could the spin issue be related to bad spin bearings? I know I've seen pics of Kenmore rebuilds on here with spin tube replacements so just wondering if the culpret is friction and not the belt. It could be a combination of the two. I admit I have never fixed a washing machine but love working on machines. Maybe this could generate some other ideas from the members.
Jamman_98 Joe |
Post# 733081 , Reply# 21   2/5/2014 at 14:22 (3,704 days old) by jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)   |   | |
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Post# 733369 , Reply# 22   2/6/2014 at 15:13 (3,703 days old) by turquoisedude (.)   |   | |
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Post# 733370 , Reply# 23   2/6/2014 at 15:15 (3,703 days old) by turquoisedude (.)   |   | |
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Post# 733371 , Reply# 24   2/6/2014 at 15:16 (3,703 days old) by turquoisedude (.)   |   | |
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Post# 733372 , Reply# 25   2/6/2014 at 15:20 (3,703 days old) by turquoisedude (.)   |   | |
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With the top off, I tried to give the wash tub a good spin by hand. I as had observed before, it took some force to do so. I tried rocking the tub slightly - I heard a slight 'boing' that sounded like a spring being released. After that the tub turned a lot easier but it still took some strength to turn it.
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Post# 733373 , Reply# 26   2/6/2014 at 15:25 (3,703 days old) by turquoisedude (.)   |   | |
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I kept thinking about the 'Who Shot Mr. Burns' episode of The Simpsons where Chief Wiggum has a dream about Lisa giving him hints ("This suit burns better. Look!")
I had no such inspiration, but I tried to carefully note what might be causing my spin situation... First observation: with the cabinet off, I could now see there was some kind of bar to hold the spring that is on the motor mounting. When the motor mounting is swung to the left, the belt loosens and can be removed. My first thought was this may be a belt tensioning device... |
Post# 733374 , Reply# 27   2/6/2014 at 15:29 (3,703 days old) by turquoisedude (.)   |   | |
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The four springs that seem to hold the tub plate assembly suddenly seemed significant - this is one of the two on the front of the washer. These front springs were visible and accessible when I took off that front access panel... The rear ones were accessible when the lower cover plate was removed.
It begs the question: could they need adjusting by tightening or loosening? If so, would this have any effect on the washer's behaviour?? |
Post# 733375 , Reply# 28   2/6/2014 at 15:33 (3,703 days old) by turquoisedude (.)   |   | |
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Post# 733377 , Reply# 29   2/6/2014 at 15:35 (3,703 days old) by turquoisedude (.)   |   | |
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Post# 733379 , Reply# 30   2/6/2014 at 15:37 (3,703 days old) by turquoisedude (.)   |   | |
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Post# 733381 , Reply# 31   2/6/2014 at 15:42 (3,703 days old) by turquoisedude (.)   |   | |
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On the underside of said bolt is a nut - possibly the one to be used to tighten or adjust the motor mount, but again, this is all guesswork...
I am wondering if the weight of a tub full of water somehow makes the spin engage, but on the other hand, I saw the machine spin with an empty tub with my own eyes. But, could it be possible that the springs holding the tub plate need to be adjusted so that the spring under the tub engages to the drive pulley somehow? I don't know if there were other machines that had anything even remotely resembling this, but any and all information is going to be greatly appreciated!! |
Post# 733384 , Reply# 32   2/6/2014 at 15:49 (3,703 days old) by swestoyz (Cedar Falls, IA)   |   | |
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Hey Paul -
Before tweaking/adjusting any springs (or anything, actually), my suggestion is to first build up a strong understanding of how this machine spins. What objects move and in what direction; look for a clutch or a helical drive of some type, etc. Once you have a good idea of how things work, then you can start to play with adjustments. Do you have more pictures of all the components of the spin pulley?
I also wouldn't imagine that the tub springs would assist in the spin action of the machine. I'm suspecting they do what a Maytag does by holding the tub in place, with some sort of leaf pressure point that will move while the tub is spinning, similar to a Speed Queen.
Ben |
Post# 733385 , Reply# 33   2/6/2014 at 15:52 (3,703 days old) by turquoisedude (.)   |   | |
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Sorry! I missed your post completely!! Love what you did with the 'callouts' on the photo - I really should get some photo editing software myself...
This photo of the belt back on should help. The belt inside surface loops around the pump pulley (small one at the front of the photo on the left) and around the large agitator pulley. As it heads back to the motor pulley, the outside belt surface contacts that central drive pulley that should make the machine spin when it's running counterclockwise. When the machine runs clockwise, the central drive pulley does spin but the machine agitates. When running counterclockwise, agitation halts and the spin is supposed to kick in. I am not sure if there is enough tension on the belt to adequate drive the central pulley - it's a good potential cause of the problem! |
Post# 733388 , Reply# 34   2/6/2014 at 15:56 (3,703 days old) by turquoisedude (.)   |   | |
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Ben, that's where I'm stumped... I can't see if there is any kind of a clutch or drive here. Other than the previous observation of spinning being dependent on the direction the motor is turning, I don't have any further picture of what the machine is supposed to do. I sure know how to pick 'em.... LOL
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Post# 733392 , Reply# 35   2/6/2014 at 16:03 (3,703 days old) by turquoisedude (.)   |   | |
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I didn't post this before, but here's the agitator/spin shaft of the washer. When the tub spins, the shaft also turns. In agitation, only the drive block will move though. This may be important, ya never know.
Also, I have this horrible feeling that I will need to remove the inner tub as part of this repair process. Any thoughts or suggestions as to what I might be able to use to remove the drive block? I think it's aluminum... |
Post# 733398 , Reply# 36   2/6/2014 at 16:30 (3,702 days old) by swestoyz (Cedar Falls, IA)   |   | |
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If you spin the spin pulley by hand, in either direction, what does it do? Does the pulley move up and down slightly depending on direction? Does it move freely or is it binding?
I suspect the back side of the belt is acting as a clutch, and the spring on the agitate pulley is there to apply pressure such that it is returned to the agitate height (engaged) after spinning in the opposite direction (disengages during spin).
Ben |
Post# 733404 , Reply# 37   2/6/2014 at 18:20 (3,702 days old) by turquoisedude (.)   |   | |
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Ben, the spin pulley moves easily in either direction if spun by hand. I can't see any upward or downward movement as I spin it, however I have this funny feeling that the belt is lower than it should be... The way the belt travels to the motor pulley looks as if it is not quite engaging the drive pulley; the belt could indeed be the 'clutch' here!!
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Post# 733410 , Reply# 38   2/6/2014 at 18:47 (3,702 days old) by Unimatic1140 (Minneapolis)   |   | |
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Ben, the spin pulley moves easily in either direction if spun by hand.
Paul when you turn the spin pulley by hand does the tub rotate as well? That said I mean when you turn the spin pulley by hand in the SPIN DIRECTION does the tub turn? When turn it in the opposite direction is the tub stationary? |
Post# 733411 , Reply# 39   2/6/2014 at 18:47 (3,702 days old) by swestoyz (Cedar Falls, IA)   |   | |
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That is good news! If you spin the pulley, do you see the tub move?
It would take a lot of surface area and force in order for the belt to spin the pulley, so yes, there's hopefully an adjustment of some sort. Is there a solenoid that might move the motor for spin? Does the motor float freely, or does something move it in order for it to spin?
Ben |
Post# 733447 , Reply# 40   2/7/2014 at 00:08 (3,702 days old) by jamman_98 (Columbia, SC)   |   | |
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I copied the pic and pasted it in a Power Point slide then inserted textboxes and arrows. I then saved the slide as a jpeg. Easy to do. If you have Power Point you already have a way to duplicate what I did.
The way it sounds it works like a Maytag in that one direction is agitation then reverses for spin. If you could do a video of it you might see what it supposed or not supposed to do.
Joe jamman_98 |
Post# 733451 , Reply# 41   2/7/2014 at 00:25 (3,702 days old) by PhilR (Quebec Canada)   |   | |
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Paul, there must be a clutch somewhere as otherwise, the tub would spin as fast in one direction as the other. The spring between the tub and the center pulley is there for something. There could be a clutch that engages by turning in one direction like there is on some Rollermatic washers (sorry, I don't know much about other washers!). I think the center pulley is concentric to the agitator shaft that comes out of the transmission but I'd be surprised if it does anything with the transmission. My impression is that it's linked to the spin shaft with some kind of one way clutch at the top of it.
The first thing you need to do is to rotate the inner tub by hand in both directions and see what happens and what moves under the outer tub. You'll probably need a camera there or a helper to do one of the actions! |
Post# 733477 , Reply# 43   2/7/2014 at 07:00 (3,702 days old) by turquoisedude (.)   |   | |
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Robert: When I turn the spin pulley by hand (in the 'reverse' direction) the tub doesn't budge. However, when I first got this machine, I tried that as part of the machine inspection and I could not make the tub turn by spinning the pulley. When I spin it in the opposite direction, the tub indexes just ever so slightly (which is what happens when agitation engages).
Ben: there is no solenoid (that really makes me scratch my head). The motor doesn't really 'float' - the recoil of that spring mounted bracket seem to keep it in position and it will only move when pushed to the left (this will release the belt). Joe: I need to get more familiar with the Maytag helical drive - there may be a similarity here! I'll take videos of the washer running in both agitation and spin directions, but I am still at a loss as to what the machine is supposed to do in each direction. Another set of 'eyes' here might help!! Phil: That spring seems to play a big role, but again, I am not sure what. The spring on the agitator pulley makes me wonder if the whole mechanism is supposed to 'drop' for spin. When I turn the tub by hand I haven't been able to observe what happens under the tub. You are hereby summoned to Ogden... LOL alr2903: Yes! That piece of metal that jammed the pump is a bracket to hold the water inlet flume in place. It must have worked loose in transit and dropped off after successive moves in and out of an operating 'slot' in the laundry room. Actually, two pump-related issues preceded the spin issue and in both cases, the washer attempted to spin following the rinse; in both cases the outer tub of the washer was full of drain water from the wash cycle that did not drain out. I have a crazy idea that the excess weight (inner and outer tubs full of water) cause some thing to go out of alignment with the springs and supports. Again, SWAG here, but you never know!! About that yellow spring, I think it is definitely related to the operation of the spin cycle but with no technical or service information about the washer, I can't be sure if it's OK or not. It does look kinda stretched and the bright yellow reminds me of a spring from a farm implement (which, coincidentally, the Beatty Bros. Manfacturing Co who made the Dominion appliances also made). Thanks for the input, all!! Canyon just stares at the washer and gives me one of those 'why aren't we outside playing' looks. Hubby is in South America, so at least I don't have any 'let's see what happens if we use it as a sled and run it down Miller's Hill' remarks... LOL |
Post# 733482 , Reply# 44   2/7/2014 at 07:37 (3,702 days old) by gansky1 (Omaha, The Home of the TV Dinner!)   |   | |
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Following along closely, can't wait to see this machine in good working order again!
Have you searched any patent listings for this machine? You might be able to get a diagram of the spin pulley and whatever mechanism is inside that "dome" above it. I, too, am thinking there must be something inside that that engages the spin motion of the tub, there doesn't seem to be any other mechanical linkage between the spin shaft and the pulley system.
The spring on the motor is likely belt tension adjustment, is the belt tight when you have it installed? Most recommend a deflection of 1/2" when the belt is pressed in between pulleys. |
Post# 733492 , Reply# 45   2/7/2014 at 09:27 (3,702 days old) by turquoisedude (.)   |   | |
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Greg, I haven't looked for specific patent information from Dominon or Beatty Bros. because I believe the design of the washer is based on a US model; I think Beatty acquired the rights to use a design and produce machines in Canada the way John Inglis did with Whirlpool back in 1950.
My suspicion is that the Zenith washer is an American 'cousin' of the Dominion. I did a search here on the board archives and found a post about the similarities of Zenith and Apex machines - no small coincidence it was your post, showing some details about the drive components of an Apex! I'll be studying that closely to be sure!!! Back to the belt, it seems tight when installed. My eyesight is going downhill rapidly and I am not sure if it's deflecting more than 1/2 inch; it seems about the same as the old belt which I thought was odd. Lots of careful experimentation is in order here... |
Post# 733563 , Reply# 47   2/7/2014 at 17:15 (3,701 days old) by swestoyz (Cedar Falls, IA)   |   | |
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Post# 733644 , Reply# 48   2/8/2014 at 06:42 (3,701 days old) by turquoisedude (.)   |   | |
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Ian - thanks for your input! One of the many things I had been wondering about was if a great deal of speed was needed to engage the spin (after the attempts to spin the tub by hand didn't get far...)
As you've observed and Ben also, there does seem to be a clutch plate which I honestly hadn't noticed before. It's looking like I will need to tear down the washer further. Any suggestions for removing the drive block? I am thinking 'heat and hit' but I will need to preserve the original one for eventual reinstallation. |
Post# 733658 , Reply# 49   2/8/2014 at 08:24 (3,701 days old) by jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)   |   | |
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Post# 733667 , Reply# 50   2/8/2014 at 09:41 (3,701 days old) by swestoyz (Cedar Falls, IA)   |   | |
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Post# 733668 , Reply# 51   2/8/2014 at 09:43 (3,701 days old) by turquoisedude (.)   |   | |
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Post# 733791 , Reply# 52   2/8/2014 at 16:17 (3,700 days old) by turquoisedude (.)   |   | |
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Phil has been encouraging me to get some video evidence of what's happening when I try to spin the ol' tub manually and after some fiddling around with the remote camera, I took this video of the what happens to the 'dome' and the central pulley.
The first 10 seconds or so are when I turn the tub clockwise; the next 10 or 11 seconds are when I turn it counter-clockwise ('spin'). Note how the 'dome' and the pulley are both turning. The one thought running through my head at this point is 'what if the tub is supposed to drop down for a spin'... OR perhaps 'what if that dome is supposed to jump and grab the tub'... This is getting really interesting now!! |
Post# 733857 , Reply# 53   2/8/2014 at 21:30 (3,700 days old) by PhilR (Quebec Canada)   |   | |
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Post# 733907 , Reply# 54   2/9/2014 at 05:25 (3,700 days old) by smartdrive (Lakewood, CA)   |   | |
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Paul - Check out the Patent of the Day for today (2/9). It looks identical to your transmission configuration. |
Post# 733911 , Reply# 55   2/9/2014 at 06:23 (3,700 days old) by turquoisedude (.)   |   | |
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Holy Moley!! David, thank you for alerting me to this!! It looks like it could've been drawn for my machine for sure!!
Robert, thank you so much for this - I don't often look at the Patent of the Day, but it, too, is a gold mine of information!! Phil's heading down to Ogden later today to help me with further investigations. |
Post# 733941 , Reply# 56   2/9/2014 at 09:16 (3,700 days old) by PhilR (Quebec Canada)   |   | |
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Post# 733958 , Reply# 57   2/9/2014 at 10:41 (3,700 days old) by swestoyz (Cedar Falls, IA)   |   | |
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Post# 733969 , Reply# 58   2/9/2014 at 11:16 (3,700 days old) by jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)   |   | |
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Post# 733972 , Reply# 59   2/9/2014 at 11:32 (3,700 days old) by PhilR (Quebec Canada)   |   | |
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In Canada, General Steel Wares (GSW) aquired the Easy washing machine company in 1958 according to this link: http://www.lib.uwo.ca/programs/companyinformationcanada/ccc-generalsteel.htm
Strangely, the link also shows that GSW acquired Beatty in 1961, but since there was a Beatty variant of Paul's Dominion washer, they must have been linked together before that.
GSW also made McClary and McClary-Easy.
My Vornado fan is also made by The Easy Washing Machine in Toronto, I can't tell if it's before or after it was acquired by GSW, I think some of these were also sold in the US, probably after OA Sutton went out of business:
http://www.automaticwasher.org/cgi-bin/TD/TD-VIEWTHREAD.cgi?48506
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Post# 733977 , Reply# 60   2/9/2014 at 11:44 (3,700 days old) by turquoisedude (.)   |   | |
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I also remember that the 'blood lines' of Beatty, Easy, and GSW all ran Incestuously close but like Phil, I was sure that happened in the late 1960s! So by gosh and by golly, I may have the first run of a Beatty-Easy coop project. How exciting!! Now, if I could just get the blessed thing to spin again, I'll be a happy camper... LOL
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Post# 734355 , Reply# 61   2/10/2014 at 20:44 (3,698 days old) by turquoisedude (.)   |   | |
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Phil came down to Ogden to lend a hand with the Dominion... Literally! After some unsuccessful tries to pull the drive block yesterday, we tried another tack today (after a trip to the Canadian Tire hardware store in Magog!)
Here's his hands around a puller rigged with a standard bolt in our next attempt at pulling the drive block. |
Post# 734356 , Reply# 62   2/10/2014 at 20:46 (3,698 days old) by turquoisedude (.)   |   | |
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Post# 734357 , Reply# 63   2/10/2014 at 20:48 (3,698 days old) by turquoisedude (.)   |   | |
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Post# 734358 , Reply# 64   2/10/2014 at 20:52 (3,698 days old) by turquoisedude (.)   |   | |
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Post# 734362 , Reply# 65   2/10/2014 at 20:56 (3,698 days old) by turquoisedude (.)   |   | |
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So now we felt it had to be that post. We tried to unscrew the post but without any luck... We looked underneath again and found this hole, possibly for a set screw, but we left it alone!
So we're stuck here... Is there any kind of special tool that was used for other washers with this kind of a spin tube?? |
Post# 734439 , Reply# 66   2/11/2014 at 07:38 (3,698 days old) by jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)   |   | |
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the tub is bolted to a plate by those six screws, that plate is what is mounted to the spin tube - by what we don't know yet- but getting the tub out would allow you better access to what is holding the plate down on the spin tube.
I just saw there is a hex nut formed to the base of the tub spin tube, that has got to be a big clue! That isn't just formed there to be pretty!! That formed nut could be one giant casting right up to the drive block , and what you do is you just spin the whole thing and it might just screw out and up off the spin shaft thereby releasing the tub to come up and out! In fact I think thats what it is. A long tube bolt- see there is that red gasket right underneath it , that too is clue. And the thread of that will be opposite to the spin direction of the tub so that it constantly winds onto the shaft not off in spin.
That inner tub picture looks like one of the photos taken of the Titanic wreck deep down under!
This post was last edited 02/11/2014 at 07:53 |
Post# 734440 , Reply# 67   2/11/2014 at 07:54 (3,698 days old) by gansky1 (Omaha, The Home of the TV Dinner!)   |   | |
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Remote camera! I know, I feel like we're looking at a deep-water oil well (not gushing oil) - I want one!
I humbly went down to the Sacred Ark of the Doctrine this morning to beseech the washer gods for assistance on your behalf. They gave up the parts manual for this (Easy) washer, Easy Washing Machine Co., Ontario.
All Hail Doctrine!
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Post# 734441 , Reply# 68   2/11/2014 at 08:06 (3,698 days old) by gansky1 (Omaha, The Home of the TV Dinner!)   |   | |
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Post# 734442 , Reply# 69   2/11/2014 at 08:07 (3,698 days old) by gansky1 (Omaha, The Home of the TV Dinner!)   |   | |
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Post# 734443 , Reply# 70   2/11/2014 at 08:07 (3,698 days old) by gansky1 (Omaha, The Home of the TV Dinner!)   |   | |
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Post# 734444 , Reply# 71   2/11/2014 at 08:08 (3,698 days old) by gansky1 (Omaha, The Home of the TV Dinner!)   |   | |
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Post# 734450 , Reply# 72   2/11/2014 at 09:03 (3,698 days old) by Unimatic1140 (Minneapolis)   |   | |
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Well if I'm reading this parts list correctly and looking at the shafts, it does appear that the center post does screw onto the spin shaft. Why else would they have formed a big six sided nut into the bottom of the shaft?
Did you guys try heating the area around the nut with a torch? That is what I would do and you'll have to get it really hot and have a really good wrench and carefully pound it with a hammer. Of course we don't know if it threads to the left or the right, but I would try getting it to turn counterclockwise first. |
Post# 734453 , Reply# 73   2/11/2014 at 09:19 (3,698 days old) by turquoisedude (.)   |   | |
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Wow!! Greg, this is an amazing find for sure - thank you!!
Phil and I spent a few hours messing around last night and we pretty much came to the same conclusion about that spin shaft; as Jon mentioned, those six screws sure look like they hold the tub in place, but the Easy drawing confirmed our suspicions that they didn't!!. We tried to undo the hex nut shaft just using a wrench and gently tapping with a hammer (that sounds like an oxymoron, doesn't it?) in both clockwise and counter-clockwise directions but we couldn't budge it and were a little paranoid about trying too hard and busting something. Robert, I think that heating the post is indeed the way to go. However I'm a little paranoid about that flexible boot underneath the wash tub! We'll probably have another run at this shortly! Thanks everyone!! This is quite the adventure! Now Greg, 'fess up - are you a Closet Canadian?? LOL |
Post# 734491 , Reply# 74   2/11/2014 at 13:22 (3,698 days old) by jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)   |   | |
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His Doctrine confirmed my suspicions exactly! All Hail Doctrine! ( even Canadian )
Paul, I would get some PB Rust blaster and soak for three days first before heating , that stuff is magic, if Canadian tyre doesn't carry it I can mail you some --------- for a price...
My next guess is the threads are cut in a direction so that they drive into the hex bolt shaft during spin so as never to unwind it and loosen the tub!
SA-5474 must hold the 6 bolts but they don't show them in the diagrams - an oversight.
This also means a spiralator will fit in YOUR machine!!
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Post# 734541 , Reply# 75   2/11/2014 at 17:44 (3,697 days old) by jamman_98 (Columbia, SC)   |   | |
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Post# 734542 , Reply# 76   2/11/2014 at 17:45 (3,697 days old) by jamman_98 (Columbia, SC)   |   | |
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Post# 734590 , Reply# 77   2/11/2014 at 21:05 (3,697 days old) by turquoisedude (.)   |   | |
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Post# 734593 , Reply# 78   2/11/2014 at 21:07 (3,697 days old) by turquoisedude (.)   |   | |
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Post# 734595 , Reply# 79   2/11/2014 at 21:09 (3,697 days old) by turquoisedude (.)   |   | |
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Post# 734597 , Reply# 80   2/11/2014 at 21:12 (3,697 days old) by turquoisedude (.)   |   | |
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Post# 734599 , Reply# 81   2/11/2014 at 21:13 (3,697 days old) by turquoisedude (.)   |   | |
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Post# 734602 , Reply# 82   2/11/2014 at 21:16 (3,697 days old) by turquoisedude (.)   |   | |
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Post# 734604 , Reply# 83   2/11/2014 at 21:18 (3,697 days old) by turquoisedude (.)   |   | |
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Post# 734605 , Reply# 84   2/11/2014 at 21:20 (3,697 days old) by turquoisedude (.)   |   | |
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Post# 734606 , Reply# 85   2/11/2014 at 21:24 (3,697 days old) by turquoisedude (.)   |   | |
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Post# 734608 , Reply# 86   2/11/2014 at 21:29 (3,697 days old) by turquoisedude (.)   |   | |
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To spin, the motor reverses and turns the spin 'dome' counter-clockwise. The rollers move towards the stops on the right, causing the clutch spring to rise, engage the tub bottom and start spinning.
What went wrong with the Dominion was the rollers were literally 'stuck in a groove' on the left-hand side stops. Years of use and perhaps some deterioration of the material the stops were made of left a small ridge that the rollers got stuck in and would not move to the right when the motor direction shifted. This was remedied by filing down the ridges, ever so gently yet again. |
Post# 734609 , Reply# 87   2/11/2014 at 21:31 (3,697 days old) by turquoisedude (.)   |   | |
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Post# 734611 , Reply# 88   2/11/2014 at 21:34 (3,697 days old) by turquoisedude (.)   |   | |
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After several tests of cycling between spin and agitate, we felt confident enough to try the machine with the tub back in...
But first, I wanted to tidy up the inner wash tub. Look at that shine!! I was told that the washer was regularly used when I bought it, but I think it's previous owners liked their Beatty wringer washer better. It's in wonderful shape!! |
Post# 734613 , Reply# 89   2/11/2014 at 21:38 (3,697 days old) by turquoisedude (.)   |   | |
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Post# 734615 , Reply# 90   2/11/2014 at 21:39 (3,697 days old) by turquoisedude (.)   |   | |
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Post# 734620 , Reply# 91   2/11/2014 at 21:46 (3,697 days old) by turquoisedude (.)   |   | |
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I have to say a heartfelt Thank You to everyone who helped out on this one! Thanks, Ian, Ben, Jon, Joe, Greg, and Robert! But a very special thank you goes out to Phil to was here guiding me through this and I have to mention those Canadian Easy documents that Greg unearthed - thank you again also, Greg, for the pump clamp!!!
What a great group of people we have here - I never would have imagined being able to get this washer going again without you. Now, I've got to get some shut-eye. With any luck we'll be doing a water test with the Dominion early next week. |
Post# 734623 , Reply# 92   2/11/2014 at 21:58 (3,697 days old) by Unimatic1140 (Minneapolis)   |   | |
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Post# 734635 , Reply# 93   2/11/2014 at 22:29 (3,697 days old) by alr2903 (TN)   |   | |
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Was there a date on the patent info please? I tried but could not see one, just wondered? Thanks |
Post# 734656 , Reply# 94   2/12/2014 at 00:37 (3,697 days old) by qualin (Canada)   |   | |
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I'm very glad to see you got this old machine back up and running again. Glad to see that you were able to get all of the documentation you needed and that it was just a fairly simple repair to get it going again. |
Post# 734660 , Reply# 95   2/12/2014 at 01:30 (3,697 days old) by PhilR (Quebec Canada)   |   | |
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Robert, without the information you sent with a perfect timing on the Patent Of the Day, the additional info from Greg on Canadian Easy machines the next day, and the advises from all other members who contributed, it wouldn't have been as easy for us! It's always fun to work on an odd machine like this! Thanks to Paul who's also always there to help me too!
Now, I have to learn how to work on a Whirlpool belt-drive mechanism! I guess it might happen soon! These are the very first washers I remember as my parents, grand-parents on both sides and almost all family members of my large family had them (Inglis-branded models).
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Post# 734669 , Reply# 96   2/12/2014 at 03:17 (3,697 days old) by jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)   |   | |
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Now since all the parts have been removed it will be so easy to maintain and I agree Paul it looks like a low use machine to me.
So am I to understand that rubber boot just sits up against some spot on the wash tub? There is no seal ring on the bottom of the tub? I would think with a full tub of water it would leak like a sieve down on to the clutch plate and mechanism!!!!!
That clutch is interesting,I too have never seen that on a washer before. Secret Canadian technology for sure. Doctrine reveals all! |
Post# 734679 , Reply# 97   2/12/2014 at 06:55 (3,697 days old) by turquoisedude (.)   |   | |
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alr2903: the patent filing date was May 16, 1956. Funny coincidence that about the same time down in Appliance Park, my '56 GE Dishwasher in the kitchen centre was rolling off the production line. From what I have learned about the Beatty/Dominion washers, machines based on this patent design seem to have been introduced in 1957 and vanished in 1961; the Dominion brand name seemed to have also been retired at that time. Oddly enough, the new Beatty 62 and 63 models in particular look a heck of a lot by Blackstone designs... Sorry! I got a little off on a tangent there...
Jon: I didn't post each and every photo, but yes, there is a clamp on the lower end of the tub boot. It wouldn't have been very useful otherwise... LOL The upper part of the tub boot slips into a sleeve at the bottom of the tub (which is when we used the remote camera to ensure it was seated properly. I do still need to do some water testing so keep your fingers crossed! I'll probably only get to that next week, however. |
Post# 734680 , Reply# 98   2/12/2014 at 06:58 (3,697 days old) by jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)   |   | |
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Post# 734682 , Reply# 99   2/12/2014 at 07:13 (3,697 days old) by gansky1 (Omaha, The Home of the TV Dinner!)   |   | |
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That's really awesome, the clutch is fascinating. I'm really glad you were able to get that machine up and running again. Hopefully now any problems you encounter will be small ones that can be fixed with a dab of silicone.
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Post# 734698 , Reply# 101   2/12/2014 at 08:57 (3,697 days old) by swestoyz (Cedar Falls, IA)   |   | |
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Post# 734699 , Reply# 102   2/12/2014 at 08:57 (3,697 days old) by alr2903 (TN)   |   | |
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I loved reply #82 with the "outline" of the murder victim! :-) |
Post# 734763 , Reply# 103   2/12/2014 at 14:08 (3,697 days old) by jamman_98 (Columbia, SC)   |   | |
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Post# 734857 , Reply# 104   2/12/2014 at 21:20 (3,696 days old) by roto204 (Tucson, AZ)   |   | |
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IMPRESSIVE collaborative effort, and way to go on a daunting repair! Thank you for sharing your experiences and photos along the way. What a totally fascinating machine!
Now, go back and find out about that dog hair! ;-) Regarding the clip that jammed the pump and launched a thousand ships--that happens more times than I can count. I'm starting to learn to go hunting for foreign objects before running things. I've already destroyed one dishwasher seal with an overlooked olive pit. Sigh. |
Post# 735933 , Reply# 105   2/17/2014 at 19:43 (3,691 days old) by turquoisedude (.)   |   | |
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Post# 735935 , Reply# 106   2/17/2014 at 19:44 (3,691 days old) by turquoisedude (.)   |   | |
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Post# 735936 , Reply# 107   2/17/2014 at 19:45 (3,691 days old) by jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)   |   | |
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Post# 735937 , Reply# 108   2/17/2014 at 19:46 (3,691 days old) by jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)   |   | |
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Post# 735939 , Reply# 109   2/17/2014 at 19:52 (3,691 days old) by turquoisedude (.)   |   | |
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Post# 735942 , Reply# 110   2/17/2014 at 19:57 (3,691 days old) by turquoisedude (.)   |   | |
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Sigh....
Just like what happened when it stalled the first time. Well, okay, the pump was working fine this time around. Canyon is still hiding from the torrent of angry, vile, and downright nasty expletives that spewed forth from the basement... I am, needless to say, disappointed. I am thinking that something with the weight of the tub is what did me in here (and when the trouble first surfaced). The extra weight is too much to keep those gosh-darned clutch rollers from swinging to the spin position and raising the clutch. The bright side? At least I remember HOW to take the washer apart!! I may just slide this to one side for a while though and lick my wounds... |
Post# 735943 , Reply# 111   2/17/2014 at 19:58 (3,691 days old) by jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)   |   | |
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Post# 735945 , Reply# 112   2/17/2014 at 20:03 (3,691 days old) by turquoisedude (.)   |   | |
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Post# 735996 , Reply# 113   2/18/2014 at 03:08 (3,691 days old) by PhilR (Quebec Canada)   |   | |
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Oh, that's bad news... Before you tear it apart again, it would be nice to find more information on this mechanism! Since this mechanism relies only on the centrifugal force against gravity to lift that heavy part to which the spin clutch is attached. I think there's a design flaw in that part of the mechanism. Since nothing was visibly bad worn or broken, just these small rubber stoppers that got flatter with all that heavy hub with 3 rollers sitting on them for such a long time... The only thing I think the weight of water in the tub would change is adding some weight on the large brass bushing that sits on a strange disc spacer below the spin clutch. That could add some strain on the whole mechanism and slow it down a bit. Did you try to empty the tub and spin it again? I'm not sure it would be enough to make a big difference. And even if it does, it needs to be able to engage into spin with a tub full of water without problems! |
Post# 736012 , Reply# 114   2/18/2014 at 06:31 (3,691 days old) by turquoisedude (.)   |   | |
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Phil, I did empty the tub and tried the spin again but it still didn't engage. That was the second wave of foul language echoing through the Tomifobia Valley...
Again, my fear is that when the pump went bad on me, the prolonged attempt to spin with a tub full of clothes and water wore or damaged something in the clutch assembly. Or who knows? Maybe those support springs in the four corners of the base could be adjusted to 'raise' the motor platform... Geez, would a service manual for this machine be nice!! |
Post# 736021 , Reply# 115   2/18/2014 at 07:29 (3,691 days old) by gansky1 (Omaha, The Home of the TV Dinner!)   |   | |
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Post# 736038 , Reply# 116   2/18/2014 at 09:02 (3,691 days old) by PhilR (Quebec Canada)   |   | |
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Paul, even if the pump blocked, there's no reason why it would damage spin clutches. It could have damaged the belt but not the spin clutch. Or if it ever did, it would have been a very long process! I really think this is more due to a design flaw of the machine. Maybe thinner grease around that hub would help, or grinding the metal on the hub that engages the spin clutch where the rollers might still block just after the rubber bumpers. |
Post# 736397 , Reply# 117   2/19/2014 at 16:38 (3,689 days old) by jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)   |   | |
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Post# 736403 , Reply# 118   2/19/2014 at 16:58 (3,689 days old) by turquoisedude (.)   |   | |
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Post# 736643 , Reply# 119   2/20/2014 at 19:57 (3,688 days old) by jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)   |   | |
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Post# 873808 , Reply# 120   3/22/2016 at 07:17 (2,928 days old) by turquoisedude (.)   |   | |
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'cause not only are the daffodils and crocuses coming back to life, it seems the vernal equinox revived the 1958 Dominion automatic washer that has been in stasis since 2014.
I had formulated many theories as to why this rare Canadian automatic refused to spin, even after it had been torn down and corrections made to the spin mechanism. But last week, feeling a little down when the Norge also stopped spinning, I figured I had nothing to lose by partially reassembling the Dominion and trying to make it run again.
Well, I did 6 spin tests... they all worked and culminated in this video of the third load of real laundry in the machine (after completely reassembling the washer and installing it in one of the 'slots' in the Ogden Laundry).
Amazingly, the Dominion is spinning happily again! The video below shows the spin between the wash and rinse cycles, with the unusual spin-spray rinse.
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Post# 873811 , Reply# 121   3/22/2016 at 07:24 (2,928 days old) by gansky1 (Omaha, The Home of the TV Dinner!)   |   | |
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Post# 873812 , Reply# 122   3/22/2016 at 07:27 (2,928 days old) by turquoisedude (.)   |   | |
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Post# 873844 , Reply# 123   3/22/2016 at 12:23 (2,928 days old) by Stricklybojack (South Hams Devon UK)   |   | |
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Hmm, starting to think these new fangled automatic washing machines can sometimes be a little on the unpredictable side. Rarely of course, and easily remedied when the local authorized repair center dispatches a factory trained technicial team to install the readily available OEM parts quickly and cheaply... In other news I see a local outfit is toying with the idea of delivering pizza pies right to your door! Ah fiddle faddle, what a crazy place the world is becoming.. |
Post# 874086 , Reply# 124   3/23/2016 at 17:18 (2,926 days old) by bradross (New Westminster, BC., Canada)   |   | |
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