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Thread Number: 49939
Those Laundry Detergent "Pods" ... |
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| Post# 721221 , Reply# 2 12/14/2013 at 17:39 (3,777 days old) by frontloaderfan (Merrimac valley, MA) | ||
My $0.02...
I had been using Tide liquid since I bought my frontloader last Autumn. About six months ago, I started using the pods for convenience reasons (I tend to overdose detergent). Upon reading another thread here about spider failure and the pics of how completely gunked up the spiders on some machines become and how not just one person theorized that liquid detergents can coat the inside of the machine (not to mention those in "water-soluble" plastic pods), I switched to Persil's powder detergents.
Although my machine doesn't appear to suffer from mould/odor issues, I feel this is good practice in the long run. 
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| Post# 721224 , Reply# 3 12/14/2013 at 17:49 (3,777 days old) by washman (o) | ||
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frontloaderfan where are you finding Persil detergent? | ||
| Post# 721225 , Reply# 4 12/14/2013 at 17:55 (3,777 days old) by frontloaderfan (Merrimac valley, MA) | ||
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| Post# 721254 , Reply# 5 12/14/2013 at 22:12 (3,776 days old) by jerrod6 (Southeastern Pennsylvania) | ||
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Frontloaderfan Thanks for posting that. Looks like they are located in NJ. I use Persil Megaperls and have been looking to try Somat 5 DW detergent but could never find it. Thanks again. | ||
| Post# 721265 , Reply# 6 12/15/2013 at 04:11 (3,776 days old) by arbilab (Ft Worth TX (Ridglea)) | ||
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Post# 721287 , Reply# 8 12/15/2013 at 11:24 (3,776 days old) by logixx  (Germany) |
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I had recently been asked how much cheaper it would be to buy Persil from Germany. Turned out that the added cost of shipping (even though I haven't checked EVERY shipping service) would pretty much negate any savings from buying "cheap" Persil from here.
Haven't noticed any residue from using premeasured products - be it Quantum in the dishwasher or the few times I tried Tide Pods. Alex | ||
| Post# 721290 , Reply# 10 12/15/2013 at 11:39 (3,776 days old) by frontloaderfan (Merrimac valley, MA) | ||
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Man gönnt sich ja sonst nichts...
Since Persil is a German product, it has to be shipped across the Atlantic, since, to my knowledge, Henkel does not have a manufacturing licensee on this side of the Pond. As with most everything else imported, it's more expensive abroad. Practical? Probably not. Worth it? Depends on one's point of view. I like it.
I sat down and figured out that a load of colors with Persil Color Megaperls costs me $0.52. A load of colors with Tide pods using Oxyclean costs me $0.34. A difference of $0.18 per load. I buy the Tide and Oxyclean with my other items at the grocery store. I order the Persil online and it comes to me. I guess it's just a question of if it's worth the extra $0.18 per load to me to use a top-notch product like Persil or a (IMO) run-of-the mill product like Tide. I'll be trying other soaps as well, so I guess this means "to be continued"... This post was last edited 12/15/2013 at 13:11 | ||
| Post# 721298 , Reply# 12 12/15/2013 at 12:19 (3,776 days old) by frontloaderfan (Merrimac valley, MA) | ||
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I understand the line of reasoning entirely, however, one could go so far as to ask: Why pay $2300.00 for a Miele washing machine or $90,000.00 for a Mercedes-Benz? After all, they sell washers and cars that are made here in the US and they don't even cost half that. It's a question of what people want/value and what they're willing to pay.
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| Post# 721300 , Reply# 13 12/15/2013 at 12:38 (3,776 days old) by frontloaderfan (Merrimac valley, MA) | ||
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@ arbilab
I just found this online:
The pods themselves are made of polyvinyl alcohol (CH2CH(OH)), which is said to be a water-soluble polymer. Tide had to reduce the water content of liquid Tide from 50% to 10% in order for the pod not to dissolve upon contact with the detergent. I could not find anything on whether or not polyvinyl alcohol completely dissolves in the machine. It does say that it does not biodegrade very quickly. | ||
| Post# 721382 , Reply# 16 12/16/2013 at 00:27 (3,775 days old) by arbilab (Ft Worth TX (Ridglea)) | ||
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Tom sent me a sample of Persil. Definitely like it--low suds, high rinse, elegant scent. May not be able to spring for the US retail on a Socalled Security budget.
Do get STTP additive, only $4/pound. Legal for us to buy and use, just not legal for P&G to package in Tide or anything else. Thanks FLF, I'll google polyvinyl alcohol for its properties. Think I agree that cold washing (below 100F, the melting point of sebum) gloms washers. Specially when one considers that some peoples' cold is seasonally colder than others. | ||
| Post# 721399 , Reply# 18 12/16/2013 at 05:00 (3,775 days old) by arbilab (Ft Worth TX (Ridglea)) | ||
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In MY washer there is no fabric softener residue. Haven't used it for years. Sorry, disregarded that, thought everyone knew better. Even when I used it, it was the 4th rinse out of 5. Dryer sheets if you must, but liquid FSs are abominable. JMO of course.
Found that polyvinyl alcohol is a spectrum of substances rather than just one. Does a great many things. Solubility is temperature and time dependent. For high concentrations, temp runs in the 60-90C range and time runs in the hour range. Would I use pods? Absolutely not. Though there is a friend in this building who uses them with satisfaction. However, I supervised her laundry once and found the level of surfactancy inadequate with lightly soiled fabric and 2 pods per toploader, even with STTP added. That's exactly the problem. Manufacturers say "here, use this, it's perfect for everything/anything" and people do because they haven't the frame of reference to determine for themselves. | ||
| Post# 721614 , Reply# 22 12/17/2013 at 11:34 (3,774 days old) by mrx () | ||
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I honestly don't think that they'd have been on the market for over a decade in Europe if they were damaging machines or clothing. They'd have had compensation claims. | ||
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Post# 721619 , Reply# 23 12/17/2013 at 12:02 (3,774 days old) by kb0nes (Burnsville, MN) |
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I just repeated the test that Thomas did. I dropped a Tide pod into a quart of 65 deg F water. With no agitation it fully dissolved in less then 5 minutes, there was no gunk remaining when I poured it into the washer. I don't think I can buy the idea that they are causing service problems...
I don't like the pods as they have far too much perfume in them and they seem to suds too much. I bought them on a whim just to try them. They seem to work and I bet that people that like sudsy perfume will find them to be quite adequate! | ||
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Post# 721634 , Reply# 25 12/17/2013 at 14:25 (3,774 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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German Shipping Is *VERY* Dear
As is the same with most EU countries. Rates start at around a flat $30 USD or so for several kilos. This usually translates into a few small boxes of laundry product or one large. Because of this one has really stopped purchasing things to add to my stash from the other side of the pond. Have so much already and with the exchange rates today it does not often make sense.
Persil is a great detergent, don't get me wrong, but there are others including latest offerings from Tide that do basically the same job. Some may find Tide and other detergents on this side of the pond a bit harder to rinse, but again YMMV. | ||
| Post# 721648 , Reply# 26 12/17/2013 at 15:20 (3,774 days old) by mrx () | ||
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Just checked on the post office website here. €40 ($55) for 3KG package from here to NYC "Standard Mail" which it says takes 4 to 5 days. It'd certainly add to your box of Persil (albeit the Unilever version) | ||
| Post# 721693 , Reply# 27 12/17/2013 at 19:29 (3,774 days old) by liamy1 (-) | ||
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Mrx As a side hi jack to the thread. My 12kg Samsung eco bubble has just broke this week. its only 7 months old :( | ||
| Post# 721869 , Reply# 28 12/18/2013 at 17:51 (3,773 days old) by tecnopolis (Ocala/Dunnellon, Florida 34481) | ||
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| Post# 721989 , Reply# 29 12/19/2013 at 10:53 (3,772 days old) by mrx () | ||
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It should be covered under warranty ! If not, I'd suggest the Small Claims Court. | ||
| Post# 722058 , Reply# 31 12/19/2013 at 17:02 (3,772 days old) by NYCWriter () | ||
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Kids and pods ... I'm sorry, but if your child is stupid enough not only to mistake a laundry pod for "candy", AND too stupid to spit it out the minute the foul taste touches his tongue, I believe Darwinism truly needs to take over at this point. | ||
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Post# 722081 , Reply# 33 12/19/2013 at 20:14 (3,771 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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Fabric Softener Issues Especially With Cold Water
IMHO were the outcome of using the old oils/fats/tallow based FS. Today's versions are often blends of quats,silicones and other substances which may include fats but are generally much more soluble and more importantly do not leave residue. That is subsequent laundering with a quality detergent will remove the stuff.
Consumers Reports for years has been saying that FS is not as bad for towels and other absorbent items as once thought. Do you need to us the stuff is a whole other matter. Commercial laundries regardless of what they admit to all use fabric softeners or conditioners. For one thing it cuts down on static cling not only in dryers but for items that go through ironers. The oils or whatever in FS leave fabrics with enough "slip" that also makes ironing by hand easier. As for rinse water temperature IIRC many laundries will use a blend of hot and cold water to get a final rinse temp for say a "cottons" load near 85F to 100F. This is because cottons extract best at temps around 110F. The more water that is extracted by the washer or whatever means less work for dryers. Consumer Reports and other such publications will say that the *small* amount of increased energy dryers use to deal heat a cold water rinse load better than the costs of using warm water rinses, but I'm not too sure the range is that great. | ||
| Post# 722115 , Reply# 35 12/20/2013 at 00:57 (3,771 days old) by arbilab (Ft Worth TX (Ridglea)) | ||
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M'lady, at roughly what age did the switch take place? I still used LFS into the early 00s, saw them make waterspots on the glass door and grow mildew in the dispenser despite drying it out superficially. Which is why I stopped using them. If they do that to the machine, how could they not be doing that to my towels?
OTOH, in 2009 I worked briefly in a hotel where the laundry injected 3 commercial/industrial fluids; detergent, bleach, conditioner. No idea what was in the conditioner but it didn't seem to waterspot the glass like my grocerystore stuff did a few years earlier. | ||
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Post# 722119 , Reply# 36 12/20/2013 at 02:00 (3,771 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands) |
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There was a lawsuit overhere in the Netherlands from Unilever against Proctor and Gamble. The outcome is that Proctor and Gamble has to take Ariel pods from the market. Unilever has a patent on the so called 3-in-1 pods. The fact that Ariel added a few things doesn't make a difference. The Ariel pods are close enough to the design Unilver has a patent on.
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Post# 722123 , Reply# 37 12/20/2013 at 02:30 (3,771 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie) |
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I stopped using fabric softener in 2010 when I purchased a Frigidaire dryer with steam and anti-static options.
Prior to that, I used Downy on nearly every load. Don't really care for the smell of fabric softener, any more. I stayed with a friend who put fabric softener in a load that included a couple of my dress shirts. The scent was annoying, not being used to it, anymore. | ||
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Post# 722138 , Reply# 38 12/20/2013 at 04:57 (3,771 days old) by mrboilwash (Munich,Germany) |
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Waterspots on the door glass
Correct me if I´m wrong, but I thought the reason for waterspots observed when FS is used was because of the positive charge of cationic surfactants.
Benzylalkonium chloride (another cationic surfactant) as found in disinfactant rinses does exactly the same thing. It`s a clear liquid (certainly no grease in those products). What about the idea that cationic sufactants simply decrease the surface tension of water, wheras anionic and nonionic surfactants (derivated from fats as well) increase surface tension, thus make a water film on the glass, as an explanation ? I also believe that there is only a chance to a build up of FS residue in the washer if the clothes are not comleatly clean. Residual oils in the clothes from the wash plus FS is a very bad combination. Never observed a "bathtub ring" in the last rinse with FS when I washed new clothes before the first wear, or when the detergent is dosed sufficiantly. Also never had a problem with residue when I tried those Pods. This post was last edited 12/20/2013 at 09:04 | ||
| Post# 722151 , Reply# 39 12/20/2013 at 07:03 (3,771 days old) by mrx () | ||
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@ foraloysius I'm just wondering if that's a patent that they took out and never actually used? I have never seen a 3-in-1 pod from Unilever. CLICK HERE TO GO TO mrx's LINK | ||
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Post# 722155 , Reply# 40 12/20/2013 at 07:23 (3,771 days old) by logixx (Germany) |
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Proctor and Gamble has to take Ariel pods from the market
I wonder if that's the reason why we're still awaiting the release of anything "pods", be it for laundry of dishes, by P&G here. | ||
| Post# 722156 , Reply# 41 12/20/2013 at 07:25 (3,771 days old) by NYCWriter () | ||
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Sorry ... … disagree. As a student of anthropology, I know that Mother Nature made dangerous things taste bad for EVERYONE … humans included. If you're too dumb to spit it out ... | ||
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Post# 722157 , Reply# 42 12/20/2013 at 07:36 (3,771 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands) |
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Here's the link to an article in Dutch:
www.telegraaf.nl/dft/nieuws_dft/2... Apparently Unilever wants to take Proctor and Gamble to court too about the Ariel tabs. But they can't do that through a summary procedure because the tabs have been on the market for ten years. | ||
| Post# 722275 , Reply# 47 12/21/2013 at 01:39 (3,770 days old) by arbilab (Ft Worth TX (Ridglea)) | ||
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Benzalkonium chloride is a potent biocide. In the quantities used, I would 'think' its surfactant properties irrelevant. I'm 97.5% certain that it would not allow, much less promote, the growth of mold in the dispenser drawer, so that leaves a 2.5% chance that we're talking about the same phenomenon.
Remind me to tell you what BAC-- preservative in virtually every nasal spray including saline only-- does to your nasal cilia. Better, google it. | ||
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Post# 722337 , Reply# 53 12/21/2013 at 11:28 (3,770 days old) by kb0nes (Burnsville, MN) |
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In some ways I think the pods are more dangerous then things like oven cleaner or drain openers. There is a complacency due to the idea that they aren't dangerous like the harsh chemicals are. Couple this with the fact that they are attractive to infants with their bright colors etc.
Of course the responsibility should lie in the hands of the parents to keep all cleaning products away from the children. But still some thought into this issue needs to be addressed by the manufacturers. Perhaps something along the lines of the Mr Yuk program, although that won't work with infants. 
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| Post# 722427 , Reply# 54 12/21/2013 at 19:03 (3,770 days old) by NYCWriter () | ||
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For the record ... … It's Mr. YUCK. A "yuk" is a laugh, and there's nothing funny about poison. ;) | ||
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Post# 722435 , Reply# 56 12/21/2013 at 19:20 (3,770 days old) by kb0nes (Burnsville, MN) |
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| Post# 722440 , Reply# 57 12/21/2013 at 19:32 (3,770 days old) by NYCWriter () | ||
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You're right ... … I stand corrected. How many of us are old enough to remember cashiers handing out a fresh sheet of Mr. YUK stickers to our moms each time they bought cleaning products? | ||
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Post# 722463 , Reply# 58 12/21/2013 at 21:38 (3,769 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie) |
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"I'm sorry, but if your child is stupid enough not only to mistake a laundry pod for "candy", AND too stupid to spit it out the minute the foul taste touches his tongue, I believe Darwinism truly needs to take over at this point. "
Wanted to send you the real thing, NYCWriter, but shipping rates to the center of the universe are outrageous! 
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Post# 722552 , Reply# 59 12/22/2013 at 14:06 (3,769 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md) |
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Children possibly eating detergent pods.
This is a real problem that has happened many times as they are very attractive and tempting to adults as well as children.
A few months ago I bought a container of Kirkland pods at Costco and they are not only very pretty but also kind of fun to play with. When I went back to Costco the other week I bought another container and noticed that they had changed the container to an opaque red container so the pods do not look so tempting to children. NYCWriter, next time you have a party why don't you try setting a bowl of these out near the food and see if anyone picks one up and tastes it, you might be surprised how many of your friends do not pass your Darwinian survival test, LOL. | ||
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Post# 722571 , Reply# 60 12/22/2013 at 18:43 (3,769 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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Used "Bulles" or Pods of the French Detergent In My
At local Laundromat awhile ago. Since those machines automatically have a pre-wash and one cannot open the door at the start of the wash cycle to chuck the thing into the drum; did the next best thing. Stood over the dispenser compartment as machine was filling for the wash and held the pod under the flow of water. It broke apart/dissolved quickly enough and that was that.
Generally however do not like pods because one does not like being compelled to a one size fits all dosage. Tide pods claim to be good for either HE front loaders or top loading washers along with normal machines. Well obviously each machine uses different amounts of water even for a normal "cottons" cycle. So how can one pod do for all? Yes, directions do say two or whatever may be required for larger loads, but still. Yes, these pods are convenient but there is no escaping the common problem with all unit dose detergents; they lock one into using a set amount of product. At least with some older tablets you could break them apart, but even that has changed. In both pods and tablets there are now various "layers" or sections containing various parts of the product. This means it is very difficult if not impossible to only use a portion and get the proper balance of cleaning power. Pods make sense to an extent for liquid detergents with the push to use less water in manufacturing. At some point you are going to reach gel stage and that presents all sorts of problems. In Europe as we know there are various dosing caps/balls such as for Ariel Excel gel. Not sure how the American market would take to such things. While some report they have no problems placing gel detergents in their machine's dispenser, others don't see it way. | ||
| Post# 722701 , Reply# 62 12/23/2013 at 12:44 (3,768 days old) by mrx () | ||
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The Ariel pods are in an opaque green tub with a fairly simple hinged lid. It's a bit like a giant version of a spreadable butter pack with a hinged lid instead of a lift off one. | ||
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Post# 722915 , Reply# 63 12/24/2013 at 13:25 (3,767 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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IMHO Pods Are Yet Another Way To Get Shot of Powder
Detergents.
Yes, some do contain various amounts of powdered substances but only because the chemical used cannot be made to play nice in liquid/gel form. With my AEG one has to be *very* careful with dosage of detergent or are series of resets for extra rinses is sure. Therefore would never have just a pod type detergent on hand. I mean what does one do for loads that are <100%? | ||
| Post# 722944 , Reply# 65 12/24/2013 at 15:48 (3,767 days old) by mrx () | ||
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The manufacturers seem to have a death wish for powder for some reason. I assume that liquids are easier to manufacture. They're certainly not pushing them for their love of consumers ... | ||
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Post# 722947 , Reply# 66 12/24/2013 at 16:03 (3,767 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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In Many NYC Supermarkets You Cannot Find Powder
Laundry detergent for love nor money.
One local has just *one* small box of Tide powder on shelves, and it is at the bottom in corner. Everything else is liquids, pods, etc..... Last time one was at K-Sears on Astor Place in the Village it was mostly all liquids, pods, etc... there as well with a small selection of powders. Problem is time and time again consumer testing groups have shown that these liquids, gels, etc... are often not very good at removing marks as a universal powder. So now we are told to purchase "booster" pods in addition to liquids which do contain bleaching agents to make up the difference. The Ariel Excel gel in my stash will remove marks mostly if one pre-treats first. Otherwise it is very hit or miss. OTOH powders such as Tide or Persil do the job first time around on their own. | ||
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Post# 723008 , Reply# 67 12/25/2013 at 00:44 (3,766 days old) by tolivac (greenville nc) |
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The detergent shelves at Food lion-most is liquid.Next,Pods,then a small section for powders-and getting smaller.If you want powders-go next door to the new WalMart-their detergnet powder section is larger.They have "Roma" in huge plastic bags-beleive like 10-20 pounds worth. | ||
| Post# 723077 , Reply# 69 12/25/2013 at 11:54 (3,766 days old) by frontloaderfan (Merrimac valley, MA) | ||
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I recall an old "Sixty minutes" segment with Andy Rooney about liquid vs. powder detergent. He was ranting about liquids being mostly water and how manufacturers are really just selling you their product in diluted form, which has some truth to it, IMO. I do notice that since I have been using powder detergent, there is somewhat more of a mess around the machine, despite being careful. Powder is lighter and tends to "fly around" more than liquid. Not a big deal, as the detergent compartment of my FL can be easily removed and cleaned. I haven't had to do this since I've had this machine, though. It's still pretty clean, even though it's been over a year now.
I find 120 ml of Persil is more than adequate to wash a large load of my baker's whites in hot water and have them come out spotlessly white, time after time. I don't think I'll be switching back to liquid pods any time soon. | ||
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Post# 723244 , Reply# 70 12/26/2013 at 17:50 (3,765 days old) by jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers) |
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The early Persil Pods I bought 5 years ago when I visited ChesterMike came with a waring on the package- do not use in Combination washer/dryers and be sure when transferring from the washer to the dryer that you remove the remains of the pod. It will melt and stick in the dryer. Well I tried that twice and once it pasted itself onto the drum and I had to use a scraper to remove it ,the second time it pasted to corduroy jeans - what a mess. Does Persil still make pods?? I think they gave that up ?
I tried Tide pods - I felt it is an horrific product, stunk and way too sudsy. A friend tells me he likes them because you can do the laundry and not have to come back to the machine till next day and the clothes won't stink.
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| Post# 723335 , Reply# 71 12/27/2013 at 07:04 (3,764 days old) by aquarius1984 (Planet earth) | ||
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| Post# 723340 , Reply# 72 12/27/2013 at 08:38 (3,764 days old) by AquaCycle (West Yorkshire, UK) | ||
quite a bit of consumer demand for them 
I think the remaining popularity of powders in the UK and Europe is down to a few things really.
1. Which? always rate powders higher than liquids 2. Powder detergents over here already contain oxygen based bleaching agents, which liquids don't. In the US, more people are used to having to buy oxi-bleach seperately whereas over here, it's far less common. 3. Powders clean better and have worked for years. Powders came first. It wasn't until the early 90's really that liquids took off here and people tend to stick with what they know works. When Persil took their Non-Bio off the shelves in favour of new Persil Automatic, there was a huge public outcry for the stuff to return, hence Persil have continued to sell a biological and non biological detergent. It would be the same if powders were gone - LOTS of complaints. | ||
| Post# 723367 , Reply# 73 12/27/2013 at 11:14 (3,764 days old) by paulc (Edinburgh, Scotland) | ||
Aquarius1984
Persil capsules do state on the packaging not to use in washer dryers, I phoned Unilever to ask why not and was told there is a possibility that the coating on the capsules may not fully dissolve and get melted onto clothing or the drum during the drying process. I have to admit, I have never had a pod or capsule not fully dissolve although I have had to stop the machine and remove them from the door gasket.
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Post# 723397 , Reply# 74 12/27/2013 at 14:07 (3,764 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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What bothers me about these "pods" is that in low water usage front loaders there maybe problems with them dissolving totally. In the AEG often it takes awhile before all the Ariel Excel gel is flushed out of the dispenser cap. One can see it tumbling round and round with bits of detergent still in the bottom of the cup.
My other greatest fear is that the pods with bleaches may not dissolve well and cause contact damage to coloured textiles. | ||
| Post# 723418 , Reply# 75 12/27/2013 at 15:43 (3,764 days old) by frontloaderfan (Merrimac valley, MA) | ||
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Post# 723425 , Reply# 76 12/27/2013 at 16:18 (3,764 days old) by logixx (Germany) |
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Post# 723426 , Reply# 77 12/27/2013 at 16:18 (3,764 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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Here Is The Thing
Have found *all* P&G detergents such as Tide, Ariel, Cheer, the lot especially liquids require careful dosage or you will be rising until kingdom come. This includes pods and why one is against such things. If you are using them with a very full load of badly soiled wash then things may be ok, but since you cannot adjust dosage for say half load or lightly soiled, what then?
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| Post# 723430 , Reply# 78 12/27/2013 at 16:29 (3,764 days old) by frontloaderfan (Merrimac valley, MA) | ||
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Spot on, Launderess! I noticed this problem quite clearly while washing my bathroom rugs with the Tide pods. After about 6 or 7 minutes of agitation in hot water, there was nothing but suds in the machine. I had to rinse the rugs AT LEAST six or seven times before there were no more residual suds in the rinse water. This was with just one pod. I also helped the miserly water usage out by adding an additional two gallons of water per rinse via the detergent dispenser.
OTOH, I noticed three rinses were enough to rinse the rugs completely using Persil powder. Pods? I think not... | ||
| Post# 723491 , Reply# 79 12/28/2013 at 02:49 (3,763 days old) by arbilab (Ft Worth TX (Ridglea)) | ||
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Pods are for users who want to 'toss and go'. Who don't know how to, or don't want to be bothered, matching surfactancy to soil. Like rugs have virtually no fat loading so they foam forever with one pod. While work clothes may not come clean with 2 or even 3.
What we have here is a product result of a focus group, where a corporation gathers the stupidest people they can find and asks them what they want in a product. The answer is always the same, "we don't want to have to think about it". As if they could if they wanted to. | ||
| Post# 723515 , Reply# 80 12/28/2013 at 09:37 (3,763 days old) by NYCWriter () | ||
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Rick ... ... BINGO!!! | ||
| Post# 723526 , Reply# 81 12/28/2013 at 11:16 (3,763 days old) by washman (o) | ||
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My sentiments exactly see my earlier post on this rather dubious marketing scheme. | ||
| Post# 723531 , Reply# 82 12/28/2013 at 13:14 (3,763 days old) by frontloaderfan (Merrimac valley, MA) | ||
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I'd like to add to what Rick said: I think it is also laziness that is being catered to here. He's right. Many do not want to have to think about how to solve a problem or how best to do something as simple as dosing detergents (I myself have been guilty of this). Only thing is, letting P&G decide how much detergent I use was leading to my clothes still having soap in them after what seemed like endless rinsing so I had to change my ways...
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| Post# 723628 , Reply# 83 12/29/2013 at 04:33 (3,762 days old) by arbilab (Ft Worth TX (Ridglea)) | ||
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| Post# 723649 , Reply# 84 12/29/2013 at 09:02 (3,762 days old) by Iheartmaytag (Wichita, Kansas) | ||
Tide Pods | ||
| Post# 723654 , Reply# 86 12/29/2013 at 10:18 (3,762 days old) by frontloaderfan (Merrimac valley, MA) | ||
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As much as I hate to admit it....
we here ARE a minority. Not everyone is as "into" laundry and white goods as we here are. To most it is an odious chore, a necessary evil. The average person on the street just wants to throw the clothes into machine XYZ and have them clean as quickly as possible, no fuss no muss.
I'm sure pods (or whatever replaces them) will be around from now on because there is never a shortage of lazy housewives (it would seem that there are more and more of them as the "Barbie princesses" get older and become adults) and college students who just want clean clothes. | ||
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Post# 723661 , Reply# 88 12/29/2013 at 11:03 (3,762 days old) by logixx (Germany) |
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I agree with Ryan
Besides, if you have ever been to a laundromat that does't have top loaders (which would include practically very laundromat in Europe) you will see that many people seem to have terrible problems not to pour liquids or powders over the entire detergent drawer. Every single time I had to use the Speed Queen FL at my dorm back in '06, I had to wash the drawer in the sink under hot water. Fabric softener and detergent everywhere. The Maytags at another dorm were even worse because one coulnd't remove the deteregent tray at all.
Alex | ||
| Post# 723775 , Reply# 89 12/30/2013 at 00:18 (3,761 days old) by arbilab (Ft Worth TX (Ridglea)) | ||
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Post# 723787 , Reply# 90 12/30/2013 at 01:25 (3,761 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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Liquid detergents
Solved the problem long ago of mucky dispensers by using the dosage ball from Ariel Excel gel. Works a treat though have to wait when using the AEG for it to finish it's drain, fill, sense load, then start wash business.
Quite honestly like liquids for some loads such as dress shirts and bed linens that aren't very deeply soiled. What soils they do have are often right up liquid detergent's street, oils, fats, and so forth. | ||
| Post# 723846 , Reply# 91 12/30/2013 at 09:52 (3,761 days old) by frontloaderfan (Merrimac valley, MA) | ||
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I went to Walmart yesterday looking for Woolite to wash my LL Bean wool socks with. Walmart usually has the best selection of detergents in town. Almost an entire aisle of laundry products was liquids or pods. I looked for Purex powder because it is a Henkel product and found in the lonely four foot section of shelving in the entire detergent aisle where the powders were, a single box of Purex powder detergent. Everything else is liquid or pods.
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Post# 723896 , Reply# 93 12/30/2013 at 13:20 (3,761 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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Colgate-Palmolive | ||
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Post# 723917 , Reply# 95 12/30/2013 at 15:47 (3,761 days old) by logixx (Germany) |
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Dosage balls | ||
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Post# 723926 , Reply# 96 12/30/2013 at 16:54 (3,761 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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| Post# 723954 , Reply# 98 12/30/2013 at 19:20 (3,761 days old) by paulc (Edinburgh, Scotland) | ||
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When Persil liquid (Unilever) first came out in the UK you used the caps as the dosing ball, that made a hell of a noise.
I think with the US traditionally using T/L machines dosing balls for liquid would not be required, even with F/L becoming more common the US, machines have dispensers which support liquid detergent without the use of a dosing device | ||
| Post# 723984 , Reply# 99 12/30/2013 at 21:28 (3,760 days old) by mrx () | ||
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Dosing Ball :) Where as older Persil liquid went in the drawer : | ||
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Post# 724043 , Reply# 100 12/31/2013 at 07:34 (3,760 days old) by logixx (Germany) |
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I usually put liquids in the dispenser when the water starts flowing. This prevents it from sticking to the deterent compartment. When my washer was still connected to cold and hot water, it wasn't a problem at all because the hot water would wash everything away.
Took a quick picture of the detergent isle today. Mostly Henkel and P&G. Mostly liquids. Many jumbo boxes (50% needless fillers). Persil pods. 
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Post# 724050 , Reply# 101 12/31/2013 at 08:35 (3,760 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie) |
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I scoffed at pods for the dishwasher when they appeared because their performance lagged behind top-rated gels/powders, and I didn't believe a tough load could be cleaned well without a dose of detergent in the prewash. Since that time, improvements in their cleaning power have pushed certain brands' pods/pacs to the top of the ratings in Consumer Reports. Cascade Platinum (or Cascade Complete) pacs are now all I use, with excellent results. And yes, I use a whole pac when washing the occasional half load, which is probably a bit of an overdose--but the Earth has not spun off its axis and I continue to sleep soundly at night.
The market share of pods will continue to increase, just as liquids gradually overtook powders. Pods are more convenient to use, do a decent job of cleaning most loads, and probably make the bean counters at P&G happy due to reduced shipping costs. Having tried Tide pods when they first appeared, I quickly returned to powdered Tide With Bleach because a) it was the superior cleaner, and b) the pods produced too much suds on smaller, lightly-soiled loads (as both Ryan and Launderess pointed out). There are also a number of user complaints at CR that items have been stained blue; something I did not experience. Frankly, once the cleaning performance improves and, perhaps more importantly, the sudsing issue (especially in soft water) is addressed, I'll give them another chance. So what if small loads get a heavy-handed dose as long as excess suds aren't produced? Toss in two pods (if you think it's needed) for the occasional huge load of heavily-stained/soiled loads. Yes, pods have drawbacks that need to be addressed, but rest assured P&G's Wizards of Chemistry are locked away in underground bunkers working day and night on solutions to those problems. I just don't buy into the theory that taking advantage of a laundry product that cleans well and is more convenient to use is proof-positive of the intellectual collapse of western civilization. This post was last edited 12/31/2013 at 12:08 | ||
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Post# 724057 , Reply# 102 12/31/2013 at 09:41 (3,760 days old) by logixx (Germany) |
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Auto-dosage
I wonder how long it'll take before more manufacturers start to add this feature to their lines of appliances. GE has SmartDispense on washers and dishwashers and Whirlpool has Precision Dispense but that's it. Over here, many brands offer automatic detergent and even softener dosing. That trend must be coming to the US as well.
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| Post# 724061 , Reply# 103 12/31/2013 at 10:00 (3,760 days old) by washman (o) | ||
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Nonetheless I still like to control how much detergent is used. | ||
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Post# 724076 , Reply# 104 12/31/2013 at 11:30 (3,760 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie) |
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Post# 724079 , Reply# 105 12/31/2013 at 11:40 (3,760 days old) by kb0nes (Burnsville, MN) |
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Eugene,
Thanks for your refreshingly reasonable take on the pods. They have both advantages and disadvantages for sure. We have only been hearing the negative here by and large. I tried them and I wasn't too fond of them due to sudsing and perfume. Like most of us here that pay attention to laundry I like having the ability to tailor dosing too. I will admit to using Finish packs in the dishwasher. I have watched a number of people doing laundry and they typically many of them just pour detergent into the machine straight from the bottle, no measuring. And there is no observation after the machine starts to see if the dosing was correct. For people like this a pre-measured quantity is actually a good thing. And for good or bad I'll bet these people out number the people that pay attention... Indeed the best thing would be what Alexander mentioned, a machine that autodoses the detergent itself. Perhaps this could even be accompanied with a PH or other sensor to adjust dosing to the load. Opps scratch that, we can't have machines that have any intelligence either... | ||
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Post# 724092 , Reply# 106 12/31/2013 at 14:52 (3,760 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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Do Not Pour .... Directly Onto Fabrics
For years many laundry products came with warnings regarding prevention against coming into contact with *damp* laundry. Well with pods that is exactly what will happen until there is enough water to cause the thing to burst. Even after that event there must be enough water to distribute product quickly to prevent possible staining or fabric damage.
My older Miele uses a nice amount of water for the cottons wash, and the AEG fills whilst tumbling, but still am wary of using any pod product with bleach such as Tide's "Stain boost" with coloured loads. Am just that worried about undiluted product coming into contact and causing marks. | ||
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Post# 724164 , Reply# 108 12/31/2013 at 17:50 (3,760 days old) by logixx (Germany) |
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Post# 724172 , Reply# 109 12/31/2013 at 18:57 (3,760 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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Tide "Booster" Vivid Pods Contain Oxygen Bleach & Ac
Which is why they are promoted for use with liquid detergents such as those made by Tide. P&G also markets such pods for use with versions of Tide powder that do not contain oxygen bleaching systems.
Again the purpose is to overcome the main drawback of using liquid/gel detergents, they cannot/do not contain bleaching agents. The pods are designed in such a away that the oxygen bleach and activators are kept separate from the enzymes and other contents. IIRC the powder part is the oxygen bleach/activator/Zeolites portion with the liquid featuring the rest (enzymes, polymers/Acti-lift formula, etc... | ||
| Post# 724228 , Reply# 110 1/1/2014 at 03:30 (3,759 days old) by arbilab (Ft Worth TX (Ridglea)) | ||
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Ugh. Hating the uni-dose pods and the fact they took all the shelf space that used to contain Tide HE powder, and the HE liquid that doesn't work worth a flark, today I bought a box of Tide HF (high foam) powder. It was on sale for $2 off. I'd rather buy Persil but it costs 4 times as much.
In this institution I'm stuck with 00's Maytag toploaders and they don't have a problem with HF; that is, you have to run them twice to get them to rinse properly no matter what. I've been doing laundry 60 years and doing it properly has never been as complicated/compromised as it is today. | ||
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Post# 724270 , Reply# 111 1/1/2014 at 09:35 (3,759 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie) |
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Took a stroll over to Consumer Reports online and was startled at the number of pods/packs they have tested. Judging by overall scores, Kirkland Signature (Costco) and Tide Pods are the only ones that can compete with the top-end powders/liquids.
For comparison: These are the top scorers among powders and liquids. Tide With Bleach/Vivid White+Bright HE (powder): overall score is 82 (Excellent) Cost: $.23 per load Wisk Deep Clean (liquid): 80 (Excellent) Cost: $.14 (can be used in conventional or HE machines) PODS/PACKS: (all can be used in conventional or HE machines) Kirkland Signature Ultra Clean (Costco): overall score is 73 (Very Good) Cost: $.14 per pod Tide Pods: 72 (Very Good) Cost: $.22 Nice Power Pacs (Walgreens): 65 (Very Good) Cost: $.34 All Mighty Pacs 4x Concentrated: 59 (Good) Cost: $.18 Arm & Hammer Crystal Burst Plus: 56 (Good) Cost: $.15 Purex Triple Action Ultra Pacs: 52 (Good) Cost: $.15 Dynamo Toss Ins 4x Concentrated Tablets: 51 (Good) Cost: $.20 Arm & Hammer Toss 'N Done Power Paks: 50 (Good) Cost: $.13 Dropps 6x Concentrated: 37 (Fair) Cost: $.28 Seventh Generation Natural Laundry Packs Advanced Triple Enzyme: 35 (Fair) $.30 
This post was last edited 01/01/2014 at 14:27 | ||
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Post# 724334 , Reply# 112 1/1/2014 at 15:46 (3,759 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.) |
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Post# 724339 , Reply# 113 1/1/2014 at 15:57 (3,759 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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Great Minds Think Alike | ||
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Post# 724503 , Reply# 114 1/2/2014 at 10:45 (3,758 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.) |
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Post# 724510 , Reply# 115 1/2/2014 at 11:31 (3,758 days old) by logixx (Germany) |
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Post# 724517 , Reply# 116 1/2/2014 at 12:07 (3,758 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.) |
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Post# 724603 , Reply# 117 1/2/2014 at 20:01 (3,758 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie) |
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All this curiosity-arousing talk of detergent pods compelled me to dig through an envelope of coupons where I found one for Tide pods and one for Tide Washing Machine Cleaner. I want to try the pods on a variety of loads---dress shirts; bed linens; bath linens; uber-stained kitchen whites---using both the top-loading Speed Queen and the Frigidaire front-loader.
All Mighty Pacs (unfortunately only the Free & Clear version), Arm & Hammer Crystal Burst, and Purex Ultra Packs were also on the shelves, all priced considerably lower than the Tide product; but I decided not to do a full-on multi-brand pod comparison test. (Translation: I will probably go to the store tomorrow and pick up a bag each of the other brands, LOL.) I'd really like to try Costco's Kirkland Signature pods, and was in Sioux Falls, SD (the nearest Costco) on Sunday, but did not have pods on the brain at that point. Has anyone tried them? If so, what are your thoughts? 
This post was last edited 01/02/2014 at 21:10 | ||
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Post# 724605 , Reply# 118 1/2/2014 at 20:08 (3,757 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie) |
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Glenn & Launderess: I'm afraid I can't join the Great Minds club, as I store my detergent stash in lowly Rubbermaid containers. :-(
The powders: Persil Bio (UK Unilever); Fuller 86 (Fuller Brush Co.); Sears Ultra Stain Fighting; and daily driver Tide Plus Bleach/Vivid White+Bright. Wisk Deep Clean is an impressive cleaner, and can be used in either a conventional or HE machine. It's a keeper. I won't replace the Tide liquids once they're depleted. Love the Perwoll for Black & Darks. I wear a lot of black clothing, and it keeps blacks deeper/richer-appearing over multiple trips through the washer than does Woolite. 
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Post# 724613 , Reply# 119 1/2/2014 at 20:57 (3,757 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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Once Used Similar Rubbermaid Type Containers
But found the lids would crack and otherwise self destruct after awhile. Certainly not like the long lived Rubbermaid or Tupperware of old.
Came upon a set of Ball canning jars at local Goodwill for a dirt cheap price. IIRC it was an open box item where a few of the jars were missing (broken in shipment?), so snapped them up. For months that darn crate sat sitting so one decided either to put the jars to use or move them on. Use some when putting up batches of tomato gravy for pasta, black-eyed peas and so forth into the freezer for long term storage. The rest became containers for laundry powders. Being as they are glass once that use is over one trip through the dishwasher and they can return to food storage use. Have found plastic containers OTOH once used for detergent are best reserved for that purpose. The scent never leaves does it? | ||
| Post# 724616 , Reply# 120 1/2/2014 at 21:03 (3,757 days old) by frontloaderfan (Merrimac valley, MA) | ||
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Frigilux:
Let me know what you think of the Tide Washing Machine Cleaner. I used to use it but switched to Affresh for a while. I've also used the two cups of bleach for the cleaning cycle. I find after using Tide WMC that the machine smells like Sprite, whereas the Affresh has a slightly more "floral" (possibly cherry smell). Does your frontloader use hot water on the clean cycle? Mine tries to use cold water only, which is never enough to dissolve an Affresh tab. I always end up running a regular hot cycle. | ||
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Post# 724627 , Reply# 121 1/2/2014 at 21:23 (3,757 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie) |
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You are correct, Launderess: Once used for detergent, Rubbermaid containers are scented for life. A couple of them made multiple trips through the dishwasher, but emerged still reeking of detergent. I have a number of nice wide-mouth quart-size canning jars, but envision a future filled with shattered glass and lots of swearing, so I stick with the Rubbermaid, LOL.
Ryan: Tide Washing Machine Cleaner is the only one available locally. Consequently, I have no basis for comparison. I use the Sanitize Cycle (with the Max water option), as the Clean Machine cycle uses cool water and, oddly, doesn't provide a rinse or spin. It just drains and shuts off. The manual encourages one to reset the machine for Rinse & Spin after using the Clean Machine cycle. Why they didn't just build one in is beyond me. The instructions on the Tide packets say to run a full, normal cycle with the hottest water setting. I use liquid chlorine bleach on several loads each week, so am not concerned with mold/mildew build-up. | ||
| Post# 724915 , Reply# 125 1/4/2014 at 01:42 (3,756 days old) by arbilab (Ft Worth TX (Ridglea)) | ||
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"why do companies like P&G continue to make mostly regular high sudsing products - powder and liquid?"
INDEED! Specially considering 'suds' has absolutely nothing to do with cleaning except as a gauge with a given formula as to when one has dose-overcome the fat solubility of the load. And more so, considering 'green' machines have almost no space between inner and outer tub, which when filled with suds inhibits spin. P&G is progressively on the backside of the formulation curve. They are committed to one thing, marketing. When that committment clashes with performance, so be it. They figure their customers are too stupid to know the difference. Well, a lot of them are but that number is diminishing every day as our 'green' machines the industry has forced upon us won't work with high-suds product. | ||
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Post# 733514 , Reply# 126 2/7/2014 at 12:13 (3,722 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.) |
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Post# 735273 , Reply# 129 2/14/2014 at 19:47 (3,715 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.) |
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Post# 735328 , Reply# 130 2/14/2014 at 23:34 (3,714 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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Pods Are Mostly Liquid Detergents With Oxygen Bleach
Or whatever added as well. Being as that may the old school rules for detergents still largely apply; powders are better for clay based soils whilst liquids for oils.
Instead of LCB you might want to try adding some phosphates to a load when using pods and perhaps some extra oxygen bleach. The former are wonderful for keeping dirt suspended and away from fabrics. Did a wash load the other night using vintage *All* powder (with the Three B's) that is loaded with phosphates. Everything including the white socks one wears around the house were whiter than white. | ||
| Post# 735334 , Reply# 131 2/15/2014 at 00:07 (3,714 days old) by toploader1984 () | ||
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Pods Used pods with some liquid BIZ on a large load of whites in cold water ( hot water was frozen during last cold snap) i could not believe how white the clothes came out, even my white socks i wear around the house. | ||
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Post# 735374 , Reply# 133 2/15/2014 at 06:01 (3,714 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.) |
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Post# 735399 , Reply# 135 2/15/2014 at 09:58 (3,714 days old) by logixx (Germany) |
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"Pods Are Mostly Liquid Detergents With Oxygen Bleach | ||
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Post# 735487 , Reply# 136 2/15/2014 at 17:42 (3,714 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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Tide's detergent pods IIRC do not contain oxygen bleach IIRC. However the "Vivid Boost" in wash stain removers do, you can also find the things sold under the Ariel brand.
Ariel 3in1 pods contain: >30% Anionic Surfactants,5-15% Non-Ionic Surfactants ,Soap ,<5% Phosphonates ,Enzymes ,Optical Brighteners ,Perfumes ,Benzyl Salicylate ,Butylphenyl Methylpropional ,Citronellol ,Coumarin ,Geraniol ,Hexyl cinnamal ,Linalool CLICK HERE TO GO TO Launderess's LINK | ||
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