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Thread Number: 51233
Picture of a European KitchenAid dishwasher |
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Post# 736101 2/18/2014 at 15:21 (3,717 days old) by foraloysius  (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands) |
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While browsing on a real estate site, I came across a house that was built in 1973. The kitchen is still the original with the original dishwasher, a KitchenAid.
Link goes to the pictures of the house. CLICK HERE TO GO TO foraloysius's LINK 
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Post# 736112 , Reply# 1 2/18/2014 at 16:21 (3,717 days old) by ultramatic (New York City) |
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Post# 736127 , Reply# 2 2/18/2014 at 17:16 (3,717 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.) |
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Post# 736129 , Reply# 3 2/18/2014 at 17:20 (3,717 days old) by vacbear58 (Sutton In Ashfield, East Midlands, UK) |
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| Post# 736195 , Reply# 4 2/18/2014 at 21:23 (3,717 days old) by PhilR (Quebec Canada) | ||
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| Post# 736262 , Reply# 5 2/19/2014 at 06:55 (3,716 days old) by bellalaundry (St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada) | ||
What a  | ||
| Post# 736281 , Reply# 6 2/19/2014 at 08:16 (3,716 days old) by danemodsandy (The Bramford, Apt. 7-E) | ||
That Appears....
....To be different from American KDS-17s.
The difference is that it is not as tall as an American-spec model. American KitchenAids rested on the floor; this one sits on what is called a plinth - a base that the cabinets also sit on. While American kitchen cabinets also have a base, it is not as tall as those sometimes found in European kitchens. For a time, St. Charles offered base cabinets and plinths for American homeowners who fancied a European look. So, unless I very much miss my guess, this may look like a KDS-17, but it's not exactly like one. Look at the photo again, very carefully, and you'll see what I mean. | ||
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Post# 736285 , Reply# 7 2/19/2014 at 08:55 (3,716 days old) by bajaespuma (Connecticut) |
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One of my most cherished fold-out brochures... | ||
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Post# 736286 , Reply# 8 2/19/2014 at 09:00 (3,716 days old) by bajaespuma (Connecticut) |
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Ville Electromenager Found in an underground appliance store in Paris next to a metro station. They were selling these alongside fabulous Mieles, Philllipses, SMEGs and other brands that were already decades ahead of their US competition (Stainless Steel tanks, water softeners, water heaters, quiet). The KitchenAids, because of import taxes I presume, were selling for double what European machines were going for and at that time, 1977, those were going for, in US dollars, about 2500. 
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Post# 736287 , Reply# 9 2/19/2014 at 09:01 (3,716 days old) by bajaespuma (Connecticut) |
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Post# 736288 , Reply# 10 2/19/2014 at 09:03 (3,716 days old) by bajaespuma (Connecticut) |
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Post# 736289 , Reply# 11 2/19/2014 at 09:06 (3,716 days old) by bajaespuma (Connecticut) |
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| Post# 736299 , Reply# 12 2/19/2014 at 09:33 (3,716 days old) by PhilR (Quebec Canada) | ||
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Post# 736305 , Reply# 13 2/19/2014 at 10:13 (3,716 days old) by vacbear58 (Sutton In Ashfield, East Midlands, UK) |
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Plinth
Actually Sandy, it may not be that different from a US model. Although it might appear to be resting on a plinth it probably is not. There can be no doubt that this kitchen would have been top (or very nearly) top of its line back in 1973. It is now the practice in Europe for kitchen units to rest on adjustable legs with a lightweight board (usually plastic veneer) clipped to the legs, which is easily removable for cleaning or access to services etc. and gives a nicer finish to the cabinets. back then a kitchen of this quality would almost certainly have such an arrangement. It is also invaluable in protecting the cabinet sides in the case of water leaks as the cabinet will be raised 15cm or so above the floor - this was not always the case in UK manufactured units.
It is probable that the base of the kitchen aid is sufficiently recessed to allow one of these panels to pass in front of it - this is the way floor standing integrated appliances all work over here. Looking at the French brochure I wonder how the electrical ratings would compare with US models, normally our dishwashers are cold fill, not hot fill I wonder if any of our UK members have a Which? dishwasher report from around 1971 or so, as I know they tested a Surperba model then. Al | ||
| Post# 736308 , Reply# 14 2/19/2014 at 10:33 (3,716 days old) by danemodsandy (The Bramford, Apt. 7-E) | ||
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Al:
"Although it might appear to be resting on a plinth it probably is not."
Take a look at this shot of an American-specification KDS-16, and tell me if what you're saying is possible. The bottom panel is taller, and I know from experience that the area behind that bottom panel is not sufficiently recessed to be treated as you posit. That bottom panel (which is perhaps an inch and a quarter thick) has steel frame members directly behind it, and also motor, pump and timer components. One of the French brochure shots above shows this structure - it's a line drawing on a yellow background. I really think the model seen in the first photo must have been fundamentally different to American ones. 
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Post# 736314 , Reply# 15 2/19/2014 at 10:40 (3,716 days old) by vacbear58 (Sutton In Ashfield, East Midlands, UK) |
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Plinth | ||
| Post# 736343 , Reply# 18 2/19/2014 at 12:25 (3,716 days old) by PhilR (Quebec Canada) | ||
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From Ken's brochure, the European model's width should be 600 mm (23.6"), depth 613 mm (24.1") height 820 mm (32.3") for an undercounter model. That seems a bit short for our standards. Strangely, they state the same height +30 mm for the top (33.4") for the portable. Did they cut the legs and trim the cabinets on the European models?
What does the US literature says?
As for the one pictured, it seems much wider than normal but that's probably a camera effect... | ||
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Post# 736348 , Reply# 19 2/19/2014 at 12:36 (3,716 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands) |
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Like a lot of Dutch kitchens, this kitchen is rather high, so the countertop is at a good height. Remember that us Dutchies are the tallest people in the world. It's a standard dishwasher on a small pedestal. After the kitchen was installed an extra plinth is added to cover the the pedestal and the dishwasher's own plinth and make it look like it's fully integrated.
The house is indeed bigger than the average European house. The asking price is $1,780,000.- It is indeed a real time capsule, little seems to have been changed after it was built. The color of the kitchen was very fashionable back then. The French brochure is wonderful, thanks for sharing. IIRC KitchenAid's European main office was in France. I vaguely remember seeing ads for those dishwashers. I didn't see many of those though, only a few in similar house pictures. Overhere in the Netherlands Bosch was the most sold brand for dishwashers I think. At that time the BOL Bosch model had a plastic tank, other models a stainless steel tank. I noticed that this dishwasher is 60cm wide, which would mean it is just a bit less wide than the American models. However it is deeper than 60cm. That means it should stick out with it's front, but it doesn't. I guess that it's possible that they made the countertop a bit deeper than normal and they left a bit of space behind the cabinets to make it all flush. GE dishwashers were sold in the Netherlands too. We had neighbours who had a GE dishwasher. IIRC they bought it in 1969. As I said before, in the past some American appliances were sold in Europe, more than nowadays. Just like American cars btw. | ||
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Post# 736384 , Reply# 20 2/19/2014 at 15:54 (3,716 days old) by chetlaham (United States) |
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Post# 736385 , Reply# 21 2/19/2014 at 16:11 (3,716 days old) by jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers) |
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Thats one huge | ||
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Post# 736420 , Reply# 22 2/19/2014 at 19:06 (3,716 days old) by logixx (Germany) |
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Post# 736428 , Reply# 24 2/19/2014 at 19:15 (3,716 days old) by logixx (Germany) |
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Post# 736429 , Reply# 25 2/19/2014 at 19:16 (3,716 days old) by logixx (Germany) |
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Post# 736430 , Reply# 26 2/19/2014 at 19:17 (3,716 days old) by logixx (Germany) |
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Post# 736706 , Reply# 28 2/21/2014 at 01:15 (3,714 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands) |
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Post# 736710 , Reply# 29 2/21/2014 at 02:19 (3,714 days old) by petek (Ontari ari ari O ) |
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Post# 736797 , Reply# 30 2/21/2014 at 12:49 (3,714 days old) by logixx (Germany) |
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It looks like KitchenAid is on the market again in Europe: | ||
| Post# 736804 , Reply# 31 2/21/2014 at 14:05 (3,714 days old) by dj-gabriele () | ||
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Same in Italy, they're on the market since the arrival of Whirlpool but being Whirlpool the quality is sadly, crap. CLICK HERE TO GO TO dj-gabriele's LINK | ||
| Post# 736821 , Reply# 32 2/21/2014 at 16:30 (3,714 days old) by kenmoreguy89 (Valenza Piemonte, Italy- Soon to be US immigrant.) | ||
Being EUROPEAN whirlpool quality is sadly crap..... :) Owned one,seen many, mine broken immediately and did not even bother to call assistance, just trashed it as fast as I could...it didn't wash anything and paid it good money,MOL model.
Classic american models of whirlpool beat the avrage european dishwasher for sure... unfortunately looks like in USA modern stuff is starting to look like euro junky stuff now, and using a silly spit of water the same way... which is very sad...... I am sick and tired to have dirty dishes, I changed about 6 dishwashers in the last 5 years and NONE of them is what I would call a dishwasher...silly me hoping it's gonna happen with a new european one anyway... Our 80s rex lasted 20 years, it was not great but had not to rewash the 80% of the load like in others newer I've owned.. I do not even run my BOSCH anymore, just a waste of electricity...I just keep it not to leave an empty hole in my kitchen , waiting to find a decent VTG one that really use and have jets of water...ie. wash as a dishwasher should... Would so like to find one of those VTG Zoppas Stovella which were the equivalent of KA's dishwasher in Italy... no luck...keep searching every week..no results, even a VTG Indesit or Ignis or Castor Rex would be fine.. finger crossed... | ||
| Post# 736823 , Reply# 33 2/21/2014 at 16:41 (3,714 days old) by kenmoreguy89 (Valenza Piemonte, Italy- Soon to be US immigrant.) | ||
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;Logixx | ||
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Post# 736825 , Reply# 34 2/21/2014 at 17:11 (3,714 days old) by logixx (Germany) |
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| Post# 736828 , Reply# 35 2/21/2014 at 17:27 (3,714 days old) by kenmoreguy89 (Valenza Piemonte, Italy- Soon to be US immigrant.) | ||
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Post# 736829 , Reply# 36 2/21/2014 at 17:31 (3,714 days old) by logixx (Germany) |
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| Post# 736833 , Reply# 37 2/21/2014 at 17:47 (3,714 days old) by kenmoreguy89 (Valenza Piemonte, Italy- Soon to be US immigrant.) | ||
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Yes also Miele, my friend in Turin has one, early 80s model, from what I could see it gives results on par with my previous Rex, which is fine...
What I like in Mieles is the steam vent on the top front like most US dishwashers use to have, which IMO is the most effective way for drying...in all the others newer I had I always had to dry with the towel to do not get strips and marks, rinse aid does not avoid it to happen in full, unfortunately older Miele are difficult to find over here, is already hard to find Rex or Castor ones (same maker), they also had the steam vent like Miele... | ||
| Post# 737052 , Reply# 39 2/22/2014 at 20:30 (3,713 days old) by kenmoreguy89 (Valenza Piemonte, Italy- Soon to be US immigrant.) | ||
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Did someone light a candle for me???
If so thank you, it worked, sorry to push this little off topic so far.....but whoever prayed for me I thank you and need you to continue....LOL
Surfing the web found an AD for a VTG Indesit today.....had no pic but asked seller to send me, hope the beauty is still available....the ad is for a Vintage indesit superauromatic... Seller states good condition and llittle use (used for dish storage)....doubtful about but pics will speak... A dream machine for me... finally a true dishwasher and also awesome looking. YAY! I really hope it to still be available..... Here is how the model look like.. | ||
| Post# 737056 , Reply# 40 2/22/2014 at 20:55 (3,713 days old) by kenmoreguy89 (Valenza Piemonte, Italy- Soon to be US immigrant.) | ||
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Well....indeed just a mirage, i forgot that time ago there was one on sale on ebay, but it was a 3 rack model..... So i had to renounce as it would not have fitted in my kitchen... I,ve now noticed that the ad is in the same town of that ebay auction, so it must be the same...., the auction was ended by the seller for an error... Even if still available, it could not fit in my kitchen... : (
What a frustration.... http://www.ebay.it/itm/Indesit-SuperAuto... | ||
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Post# 737138 , Reply# 41 2/23/2014 at 09:46 (3,712 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md) |
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Vintage European Kitchenaid Dishwashers
I am sure that the usable tank size and main door were the same size as their US counterparts, the lower panel and maybe the lower frame may have been modified to line up with typical European cabinets.
It would never have been cost effective to modify the tank, main door and rack sizes etc for the low volume of DW sales that Kitchenaid did in Europe. | ||
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Post# 737166 , Reply# 42 2/23/2014 at 12:31 (3,712 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands) |
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As I said , it is most likely on a pedestal with a plinth covering it . You can see in the picture it's one part with also the outlet for the central air in it.
BTW, central air was popular for a while in the seventies, but it didn't catch on overhere. Hot water heating is preferred or underfloor heating, nowadays combined with a cooling system. | ||
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