After a long break from working on washers I felt ready to take the plunge again.  Here we have a beautiful 1968 WCIL gifted to me by a fellow club member.  I am working on issues that need addressing slowly as I have time and I will detail my efforts here as they develop, which should be over the next few months.

If you will notice the control panel has a turquoise tint to the light.  There are no trick shadows here as I ordered and wrapped the fluorescent tube in a turquoise gel.

Here we have the top disassembled for cleaning and replacement of the dispensers tubes

Here we have our cleaned parts polished up and ready for reassembly.

Got the top off, sealing the balance ring plug and cleaning the tubs.  Notice the grey upper cone transplanted at some point from a coin op machine.  I can change it to a blue one but I like this hybrid setup so I'll be keeping it and add a new blue cap to the top.

Check out all the lint on this outer tub.  I have developed a way of cleaning these without removal with the use of a water hose, hot water, cleansers and various brushes and a shop vac to suck all the junk out from the outer tub.

At this point our top side has been finished and reassembled, there are still a few small cosmetic issues to attend to later on.  Now we'll move on to bigger things.  Ben this photo is for you and I soon hope to get you my other tags for your database.

Bigger issues are now underway.  One big problem with this machine is that the lower bearing is shot, this means disassembly of the mechanism.  Might as well clean the clutch while it's out.  Here are the innards to a rapidry clutch for anyone interested.

Here we have the upper section (braking) of the clutch

Here we have our clean and reassembled clutch with the other various related components ready to be reinstalled.

Here is the high capacity pump with vacuum breaker.  This appears to have the original seal which will be replaced after I finish cleaning up the pump

Here are some finer details of the mechanism showing the overbalance switch attached to the spin tube

Here we have the mechanism almost ready for removal.  Per the tech talk you remove the brace, two motor mounting bolts, spread the aluminum motor casing slightly and attach a puller to remove the mechanism from the shaft.

It's free!

The end of the road for now.  Here is the mechanism removed.  I have removed the bearing and will source a new one soon.  Then the total reassembly process can begin.  I'm hoping this will resolve all issues and I will not need to reopen the top of the machine.  I'll keep posting photos and updates over the next few weeks.

I really like these! 

BTW, it's a 1967 model. 

Thanks Phil for letting me know it's a 67.  I was unable to date it on the appliance 411 website because it gave me a range of 68-83 which I knew was not correct past 69.

Joe,

It could have been made in 1966 too but it's a 1967 model. The "L" in the model number tells it. "K" is 1966, "N" is for 1968-70 and "S" is 1971-72... 

Here is today's work, a partial reinstall of the mechanism and wiring.  New gasket cut for pump and new seals in place.  Having trouble sourcing a bearing, Grainger ordered one but the outer diameter was wrong, went to a local bearing shop and they gave me what they thought would work, said it may be a little tight.  Well the tolerances on this don't allow for anything even remotely too small on the inner diameter.  I'll be going back to visit them tomorrow.  Suggestions from people who have done this before or who know a lot more than me are certainly appreciated and respected as I navigate this process.

I'm sure Phil will chime in, but I think he mentioned that the lower bearing was not a standard size.  What was the MFG number on the bearing? 

Original part number was 7524183.

Ben

Hi Ben,   On each side it simply says NICE   PHILA   USA   I would assume this is the NICE bearing company in Philadelphia.  I don't imagine it's standard either.  Grainger said they probably could get it but to try Bearing Distributors.  I mentioned to them having a new one made custom, I also considered that it could be rebuilt.

Hey Joe,

I have my suspicions on Grainger being able to get the bearing, as well as most MRO businesses (MSC, McMaster, etc.).  When you went to the local distributor, did they indicate what the following sizes were?  Bore diameter (ID), the outside diameter, and the width? 

Ben

Ben, they did measure it with calipers but I don't have those numbers, they say the outer is metric.  Grainger did get one in with the proper inner diameter.  I suppose if it came down to it I could make a surround to compensate but with this being a rapidry machine that bearing is going to get a workout.

Thanks ovrphil for the compliments.  I am purposely being detailed about this for the forum archives, hopefully someone else will be helped by it someday.

Joe - your findings are similar to what Phil mentioned to me in a PM.  He said that the outer diameter was metric but the bore diameter was a standard size.  Odd that GM would spec a bearing that could have been easily fitted in a casing that could have been sized accordingly.

Did you grab the PN/SKU of the bearing that Grainger originally sold you?   Phil had found a possible replacement with an NDH number of 77504CJ.  If you drop the CJ that crosses to a 6204ZZ, but we'd still need to know what the sizes are to see if something matches up.

EDIT - the 6204ZZ translates into a 20MM bore/ID, x 47MM outer diameter, and a 14MM Width, double shielded.  Grainger PN for the shielded for NTN is a 1L017, and the sealed version was a 6L026.  I'm wondering how far off the original outer diameter is from 47MM.

Ben

Ben, here is a link to what they got in.  I never bought it from them.  I paid the local bearing shop $3 for the one they sold me but the bore is definitely not correct.

Ok, that's a start.  The 5u498 has a 20MM bore, so we know that's good.  The outer diameter lists at 42MM, vs. the 47MM we saw from the possible cross Phil found.  Also, the width is slightly smaller at 12MM, vs 14MM. 

If you have a metric ruler on hand, you could get a rough estimate of both the outer diameter and the width. 

I don't have one of those Ben, but let me be sure that we do know for a fact that the correct (original) inner bore should be 20mm?

... I found an NOS 7524183 bearing!  We can confirm finally that the number Phil saw on his box is probably the correct number - the New Departure number of 77504CJ.

I measured the bearing and came out really close to the measurements from the cross reference bearing number - the 6204ZZ. 

www.vxb.com/page/bearings/PROD/62...

With a cheap metric ruler, I measured out a 20 MM bore, 14MM width, and what looked to be a 46 or 47MM outer diameter.   The Grainger 1L017 or 6L026 should be really close.

Ben

Thanks so much Ben!  You're great man! I think I'll order that one you linked too since it will only be $8.  Even if it didn't work I'm out nothing and I'll just try the Grainger part numbers.   If it does, then I'll be ordering a lot more for my stash.

I have a spare '66 2 speed Rollermatic transmission sitting around.  This weekend I'll tear it apart, pull the bearing, and compare the original (bad) one to the NOS replacement I have, and take some measurements.

I find it odd that the ND 77504 NOS replacement crosses to an industry standard number that has a bore too small.  I should note that all Rollermatics from 64-69 used the same 7524183 lower shaft bearing.

Ben

Thank you for this instructive posting. BTW I'm glad you're keeping the commercial gray top to the Jet-Cone; looks very spiffy.

Phil, does this mean that what I have ordered will not work?  I don't have the top side of the machine opened to get a picture of the top bearing because it doesn't seem to be the problem.  I'll have to see how things are up top after I complete the bottom end work.

Ben, thanks for checking into that man, you've gone out of your way to be helpful to me.  Thank you!

Mark, I remember those days too!  I have no fear of any Frigidaire now but I will say that pulsator nuts and water bellows never seem to be my friend!

If I can't locate something that works I got the notion this afternoon that I could replace the inner workings of the bearing with good parts from a new bearing that is within a few mm of the proper size.  I can't imagine it would be that huge of a difference in the ball/holder size versus the inner bore size.

I'm not a bearing specialist (Ben certainly knows much more about that!) but maybe a 7/8" (22.23mm) x 47mm x 14mm bearing would work if you could have a sleeve to widen the shaft from 20.64 to 22.23mm 

Another option would be this:

If it ain't too expensive, I'd order a few myself!

Another link from the same site

I sent them an email with a request and I copied it to Ben and Joe.

Thanks Phil, I got your email.  We'll wait and see Ben thinks also and what turns up.

I wish I had better news.  I bought a digital caliper today to measure both the NOS 7524183 bearing and the shaft in the transmission.

In terms of the bearing, I got pretty much the same measurements as Phil.  There's no need for me to tear apart the spare transmission at this point.

• Outer Diameter - 46.97MM (47MM or 1.8504 inches)
• Width - 13.97MM (14MM or 0.552 inches)
• Inner Diameter - 20.65MM (20.6375MM or 0.8125 inches or 13/16")

It seems GM used a 13/16" spin shaft and machined the bearing housing to standard metric specifications.  I suspect they couldn't go with the standard metric bore sizes of either 20MM or 22MM, as they had make sure the pulsator shaft bearing had enough material to be effective (not too small), as well as fitting into a fairly tight space in terms of the housing (not too big). 

My buddy at work took a look at the Bearing Interchange and mentioned that the ND 77504CJ had several bore sizes available, as well as the standard 20MM.  The CJ references the type of lubrication inside the bearing, MIL-G-23827 grease.  He didn't respond back with the other sizes he saw in the interchange besides saying there wasn't a 22.64MM, but it wouldn't surprise me if one was indeed 13/16"/20.6375MM.

From the looking around I've done it seems that no one makes a 13/16" bore radial bearing.  If you step up to 7/8", there are a few out there that are slightly over-sized on the outer diameter, and short on the width. (Grainger 1L008, 7/8" x 47.625MM x 13.00MM).  But even then, you'd need to find a way to bush the shaft, and get the larger bearing into the housing.

There is a good chance that a bearing would need to be custom made, or maybe a shop out there can take the old one apart, clean it up, and reassemble it.  The problem is the shields are usually toast once you take them off.

Ben

Ben, thanks so much for the updated information.  I'm committed to making this work somehow and I'm not above trying anything.  Just for the heck of it I'm going to see if I can transplant the innards of a 47X20mm into the casing of the original and see what I've got after reassembly.  I can't see that I've lost anything in trying.

Hey Rick, the problem is not the housing but rather the sizing on the inner bore.  Most bearings are standardized at 20mm, this one is 20.6.  That .6mm makes enough difference since the spin shaft has those threads on the end, that prevents you from pounding a bearing up over there because you would damage the threads.  I'm going to see how this bearing I have ordered works out and if necessary I'll rebuild the original bearing.  I've done some reading on the subject and feel that I'm savy enough to do so.  We'll see just how clever I can be ;)

Good idea also John!  I never thought about an epoxy filler.  I seem to recall finding on some web search a bearing that had a 21mm inner bore with the standard 47mm outer.  I need to look for that again and maybe order it too.

UPDATE:  I did find one spec'd as a deep groove ball bearing (shielded) that was 47mm x 14mm x 21mm  for $10.  I ordered that too.  Something tells me that .4 mm will not make much of a difference, but since this is trial and error we shall see.

Phil,

The inner bore of the bearing is smaller than the shaft by 20 mm ID on the bearing vs 13/16" or 20.6375mm on the shaft...

Bearings with larger ID seem available but they are 22 mm or 22.23 mm (7/8") and not as common as those with 20mm ID.

I also thought about something like a Speedi-Sleeve held in place with Locktite 609 but I don't think they'd fit either as most are not wide enough and probably not the correct thickness anyway.

And 22mm ID bearings with the correct width and OD seem to be rare too.

Do you know if there's a way to machine a 20mm bearing to 20.63mm? If I understand well, the place in the UK in a link I sent above seems to do things like that. I emailed them last weekend but haven't heard from them yet...

Also, non-metric bearings with an ID of 13/16" don't seem to be very common either. I have searched for them but didn't find any. It's either 3/4" or 7/8"... Maybe that's the reason why GM used a metric bearing size for that application and they specified to have the ID slightly enlarged to 13/16".

Have a look at the bearing in this link. With the exception of the ID, the quoted dimensions match the new old stock bearing that was measured above. The seller lists the ID on his bearing as 25/32", which is essentially 12.5/16ths instead of the required 13/16ths, but that could be due to the way he way holding his calipers. I'd ask him to measure that again and see if he can come up with 13/16ths. The listed part number is 77504XIC.

I also had considered a sleeve if it became necessary.  You all must have missed my post above where I talked about locating and ordering a bearing with a 21mm inner bore.  I sincerely don't believe that .4mm will make much of a difference in this case.  We'll see how it is when it arrives, that will be the real proof.  I think I'd come quicker rebuilding the original with good parts rather than having machine work done since I don't have ready access to those abilities.  You all tell me what you think, I'm enjoying this discussion!

I'm itching for that 21mm bearing to get here so I can try it.  I'm ready to get moving! 

Phil, I've taken a pretty exhaustive study of these machines and it's mechanism and I've come to the conclusion that while it would seem the bearing is really taking a bulk of the load I tend to believe that Frigidaire actually did a good job in engineering how weight would transfer through the different parts of the mechanism.  It seems to me from a physics standpoint that the tub (mechanism) support carries a great deal of the weight load, part of this load is distributed right down through the spin shaft which then ultimately transfers load through the mechanism brace into the snubber system.  I would imagine weight loads diminishing the further it traveled down through the mechanism, leaving the upper and lower bearings in the spin shaft to by and large provide stabilization of the spin shaft itself.

One thing I'm curious about that someone here might be able to answer is what kind of bearing is in the upper end?  I've never been any farther in top of one than to change a tub out.  I've drawn assumptions from schematics I've studied that is a bronze sleeve type bearing?  If anyone knows please tell us.  I want to use this thread to dispense as much information as possible for others to use in the future which is why I'm being so detailed with photos about everything I do that is common to many of us.

Joe, the upper bearing is a needle bearing. Torrington J-1812 if I remember well... In my machine, it was a caged bearing and that's what replaced it I was told that some old techs probably replaced them with a full complement bearing (B-1812). I can't tell if this was a good practice or not!

When I replaced the bearing in my 1965 Custom Imperial washer, I asked for both caged

and full complement bearings but they just had the caged type in stock at the local bearing store. Since that was the type already in the machine, I felt confident to install one like it but that's also why I asked earlier in this thread if you could show us what kind of bearing is in your machine (if you need to get there). 

Phil, that's good to know and makes sense that they would use that type up top.  If I wind up having to open my top end up I'll certainly detail that in photos also.  Thanks!

Joe and Ben,

I got a reply from the place in the UK and transferred it to both of you.

It might be a bit expensive with the shipping... (or there's the option to try those NOS bearings with similar numbers on eBay). I don't know how important it is to have the same type of lubricant for the bearing either.  

Also, I'm still waiting for a reply from guy from SKF Canada to see if he has something else to offer, his first suggestion was to modify the shaft so it fits the 20mm bearing (but that can't be done)...

A quick update, still waiting for the 21mm bearing to arrive and try it out.  Today is one of those days where I could get a lot done if I had the part, and I'm itching to do so...   Today I repainted the snubber brace and rear service cover panel.  I got a feeling when done this will be something of true greatness!

Still nothing happening here.  I am awaiting the .21mm bearing to arrive, it apparently has been back ordered and is coming from China.  I spoke with a man in California recommended to me by fellow member djones but he says he cannot locate the part but will keep trying.

At this point I'm at a standstill unless someone here has a NOS bearing they'd like to sell me.

:) Thanks guys! I spoke with RBC/NICE today, and they were most kind and helpful. They are going to have their engineer (who has been there a long time) check into it and get back to me. They even told me that if they could not help they would refer me to someone who possibly could.

Still no luck, RBC was helpful but cannot find anything.  Still at a stopping point while I work on other things...

I have had absolutely zero luck in finding a replacement bearing that I feel will work properly.  A light bulb went off and I remembered a spare mechanism that I had way back in my parts collection.  I removed the bearing from it and found it to be in good condition.  As an aid and precaution I performed a oil submersion in a sealed hot water bath to re-lubricate the bearing without breaking the seals.  This process took care of some of the dryness I could feel in it.

Tomorrow I am off work so the beginnings of the re-assembly process will begin.  I'm shooting for a month or less to get this machine fully restored.

I'm still going to continue looking for a good replacement bearing for future use with the hope that I never need to use them.

Let me remind you that the original bearing is availabe here in the L.A. area. It isn't cheap, but at least it's the right bearing.

Hey man, I called them and they said they could not locate it.  If you have a contact there and they can get it I'm glad to buy it.

I wonder if Mr. Miller(the parts guy) is being cranky again. I'll call him tomorrow and see what he has to say.

He seemed very pleasant when I spoke with him, even said he would call me if they could locate.  Please do call for me if you don't mind.  I'm glad to buy directly from them or if you want to get it I'll mail you a check.  Thanks David!

OK Joe, I just got back from visiting Larry. It turns out that he'd forgotten where he'd found that bearing, so when he went looking for it again he didn't call the place in Mission Hills that said they had it a few weeks ago. This time he gave me the contact info for them to pass on to you, so check your inbox. I just hope this doesn't turn into a wild goose chase.

Thanks so much David, I got your PM and I'll call them tomorrow after they open.  Today I spent the day buttoning up and got more done than I expected.  The bearing I did the water/oil bath on feels very good and sounds good too in the machine.  Tomorrow evening I'll water test the pump before I move on to other small cosmetic items.  Here is a picture of the cleaned and restored mechanism.

Passed the water test and everything else is good except...  We've got clutch issues, it seems it preferred being dirty because it doesn't want to slip and acts as if it were an impact clutch.  I adjusted the tension down to the lowest setting with only slight improvement.  Agitation under load is good so I know it's not the motor.  The clutch is so sticky that it's throwing the overload protection.  My plan?  I'm going to dirty the clutch up a bit with some dry graphite blown up through the adjustment holes, I think this will correct things.  I certainly I hope I don't have to remove the clutch again because this means undoing the pump.

I was able to get the clutch loosened and functioning properly with a method I'd never have recommended to anyone to use.  Sometimes you just got to go with what works.  I'm still doing some final testing over the next few days to make the machine prove it's worth to me before it gets a final cleanup and goes into place.  I think I'm closer though to completing the project.

Project finished!  Machine is in place and has done about 6 successful loads.  All seems well, pictures coming soon!

Now's the time to make some videos!!

 

Here we go, had a few minutes to snap some shots this afternoon while getting work done!

Just look at that thing: the color, the lights, the liquid panel, and the jet currents &  swirls.  If that's not washer Nirvana, I don' know what is.  

So  much work and effort, and the long quest & determination to find or fit the right  bearing finally was finally rewarded, and you now have Heaven.

Also taken with the cleaned up shot of the mechanism from the other day: a perfectly functioning Cyborg Brain.  Beautiful!

Such persistence is certainly inspiring.

If they don't have your machine in Heaven, I probably won't be attending ;'D 

Another thumper back in service!  

Thank you Mark, you knew I'd lick it sooner or later :)

I've learned the lesson that if I start to feel frustrated when working put it down and come back another day.  I guess that's what turning 40 does for you!

Who helped me with this project with information, support, etc.  I'd like to say thank you for helping in the restoring of another Frigidaire.  I've learned along the way as I always do.  I appreciate the kindness of so many of you :)

It's just BEAUTIFUL!