Thread Number: 51361
Supreme Court Sniffs At Smelly Washers Case |
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Post# 737367   2/24/2014 at 10:59 (3,685 days old) by Tomturbomatic (Beltsville, MD)   |   | |
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From NBC News, a headline worthy of Variety. Do you think this might alter the nonsense about cold water washing? CLICK HERE TO GO TO Tomturbomatic's LINK |
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Post# 737385 , Reply# 2   2/24/2014 at 12:17 (3,685 days old) by washman (o)   |   | |
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too many sheeple have been inculcated to believe otherwise. |
Post# 737389 , Reply# 4   2/24/2014 at 12:37 (3,685 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)   |   | |
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Post# 737391 , Reply# 5   2/24/2014 at 13:02 (3,685 days old) by Tomturbomatic (Beltsville, MD)   |   | |
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Glenn, That would be a real anchor around the foot, wouldn't it? |
Post# 737395 , Reply# 7   2/24/2014 at 13:33 (3,685 days old) by frontloaderfan (Merrimac valley, MA)   |   | |
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I too have the Frigidaire Affinity and still don't have any build-up of any kind after almost two years of use. I just keep the door open with the "fresh air latch" and it stays as fresh as it was when I first bought it.
I did not have very good results using liquid Tide or pods, which are what Frigidaire recommends with this washer. As I said in the "pods" thread, I had way too much sudsing and had to rinse again and again in order to get the soap out completely. Since I have switched to Persil (yes, I know it's expensive), my laundry is spotless and free of detergent residue after the normal three rinses, which still use very little water, even after the WLS modification. I have stopped using LFS altogether since switching to Persil because I don't want to ruin that delicate scent with some overpowering Downy smell. I recall the Germans laughing about how Americans want everything to smell like flowers, right down to air fresheners and feminine hygiene products. Of course, that was just a bit of derisive stereotyping, but there is some truth to it. |
Post# 737396 , Reply# 8   2/24/2014 at 13:35 (3,685 days old) by Supersuds (Knoxville, Tenn.)   |   | |
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The Supreme Court case is really just about whether there are enough people with similar situations to justify a class action. There isn't any holding on the merits of the cases.
From the lawyers' perspective, the case is about aggregating enough claims, however minor, to shake down the manufacturers/retailers for a settlement that they can take a 40% slice of. The more plaintiffs, the more money. Any individual consumers will end up getting peanuts, if anything, years from now. Meanwhile, the same torrent of bad laundry advice will continue ricocheting around the internet, and the same lazy people will fail to take care of their laundry equipment and be angry when they have problems. |
Post# 737431 , Reply# 12   2/24/2014 at 16:44 (3,685 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA)   |   | |
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Post# 737441 , Reply# 13   2/24/2014 at 17:12 (3,684 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie)   |   | |
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Thomas-- What is the temperature of your cold water at the tap? The cold water temperature here in Minnesota can be as low as 45 degrees Fahrenheit in the winter (7.22 Celsius). I would assume your temperature is substantially higher, and maybe that's why Brazilians have better results washing exclusively in cold water.
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Post# 737444 , Reply# 15   2/24/2014 at 17:29 (3,684 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)   |   | |
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Post# 737465 , Reply# 17   2/24/2014 at 19:06 (3,684 days old) by washman (o)   |   | |
This post has been removed by the webmaster. |
Post# 737486 , Reply# 19   2/24/2014 at 20:30 (3,684 days old) by DirectDriveDave ()   |   | |
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Another reason why I love my warm rinses. |
Post# 737525 , Reply# 21   2/24/2014 at 23:01 (3,684 days old) by Supersuds (Knoxville, Tenn.)   |   | |
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Tom, the issue was Whirlpool et al. objecting to how many class members could be certified and I just want to emphasize that this was a procedural ruling, not any judgment on the merits. The plaintiffs are asking for a very expansive class, including people who might have problems in the future, which (I am cynically pointing out) benefits the Big Law firms involved in the action, but doesn't increase damages due to the individual plaintiffs who actually have experienced smelly washers. Believe me, you wouldn't see this high priced legal talent deployed if a large class couldn't be certified. That means a bigger pot of fees at the end of the rainbow. From a plaintiff lawyer's point of view, that's what it's all about. ;)
The lower courts concluded that the larger class was proper, and the Supreme Court did not see a basis for review. That doesn't mean I think the plaintiffs don't have a case; I think they may very well have one, and certainly they've presented enough evidence to be heard in a court of law. For those who are interested, a link to Whirlpool's brief is here: sblog.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-content... The plaintiff's response is here. Read it if you want to understand how the courts could entertain the suit: sblog.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-content... It will be interesting to see the factual issues kicked around at trial, if there is not a settlement. The plaintiffs say that all of the washers have these common faults: "None prevents mold from forming, eliminates mold during a self-cleaning cycle, or allows consumers to remove mold manually." The U.S. District Court defined the issues to be resolved as: 1) the existence of a design defect; (2) whether that defect was a “substantial factor” leading to the mold problem in all machines; (3) Whirlpool’s knowledge of the design defect;(4) whether Whirlpool was required to warn purchasers about the mold problem prior to sale; and (5) whether the withheld information about the mold problem was “material,” which triggers a presumption of reliance under Ohio law. These are the things that have to be resolved at trail before any liability is determined. Hope that helps with some questions presented here. |
Post# 737567 , Reply# 25   2/25/2014 at 10:12 (3,684 days old) by rp2813 (Sannazay)   |   | |
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Seems to me that a class action suit would be a waste of time and effort, would probably not effect any positive change going forward, and would possibly trigger some annoying and/or unsightly idiot-proofing measures instead.
Everybody who chooses to participate in the class action will get a check for something like $3.47 two years from now after they've forgotten all about it, and their washers will still smell.
And then there's P&G, who is making money selling freshener for stinky washers and I presume would like to continue doing so. I suspect they'd contribute a fair amount of funds to the defense.
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Post# 737573 , Reply# 26   2/25/2014 at 10:31 (3,684 days old) by kb0nes (Burnsville, MN)   |   | |
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Its a shame because this is fully a user induced problem. The inability to leave the door open or adapt ones laundry practices slightly is the only issue. This explains why there are many people that never have problems with their front load machines. Pity in today's society people have it so ingrained in their mind that the "customer is always right" that the user of course isn't to blame, so sue the manufacturer!
The manufacturers have responded with cleaning cycles which should help, both with eliminating smells and lawsuits. I think eventually they will end up with all models having small blow down fans to help dry the interiors and allow the user to keep the door shut. I'd love to install a FL machine at my girlfriends parents house. They do 10+ loads of laundry a week and they are on a septic system. Going to a front loader would sure minimize the water usage. But their laundry habits would have the machine stunk up in 6 months and they would be part of this class action suit ASAP... |
Post# 737732 , Reply# 27   2/26/2014 at 02:36 (3,683 days old) by jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)   |   | |
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this may help answer your question about P&G detergents and the suds you see in rinse. About 3-5 years ago P&G developed a new type of surfactant based on alkyl-sulfate. Its purpose was to be able to wash in cooler water temperatures, they are still seeking patent on this as of the last time I checked but it is in use in the liquid & powder formulations.
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Post# 737736 , Reply# 28   2/26/2014 at 02:50 (3,683 days old) by arbilab (Ft Worth TX (Ridglea))   |   | |
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I'll just briefly restate that my 1998 ElectroFrigiWhite FL never smelled of anything but Tide and the neoprene boot. I toweled the boot and dispenser and left the door ajar but no other 'heroic measures' were required. Most washes were mixed/colors at ~100F.
The family's Westinghouse slant FLs never smelled either, with or without the boot dried and the door ajar. Though they were lucky to get maybe 2 days off a week in a family of 6. Permpress hadn't been invented yet so most washes were hot. But some were diapers. When the pump failed in this building's coinop Neptune FL and sat full of water for several days, it smelled like satan's sweatsocks. Before I used it I ran a hot cycle of detergent and bleach only, to make sure that smell didn't follow me home. But even with no care at all such as drying the boot and leaving the door ajar, nothing approaching that smell ever happened again. Frankly I don't know what the lawsuit machines or owners are doing wrong. But I can tell you this. I have inadvertantly (they contacted ME) been a plaintiff in several class-action lawsuits, they all won, and I never got more than $19.95 from the judgement. So anyone suing the manuf'rs can count on no more than a modest cheeseburger dinner for a family of 3 when they win. No supersizing. |
Post# 737767 , Reply# 29   2/26/2014 at 07:01 (3,683 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie)   |   | |
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Post# 737782 , Reply# 30   2/26/2014 at 08:09 (3,683 days old) by gansky1 (Omaha, The Home of the TV Dinner!)   |   | |
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User Error. I can't imagine it will be too hard to prove.
I'm familiar with lots of front loading washers of all brands and almost never see mold and odor problems. "Heroic measures" love that! I don't know anyone who does, just simple common sense. Hot water cycles now and then, door open when not in use and occasional wipe down. Appliances have almost never been completely self-cleaning, from the washer lid openings and dispensers to oven door frames on self-cleaning ovens, they've all needed at least a little attention from the owner to stay clean.
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Post# 737986 , Reply# 32   2/27/2014 at 07:31 (3,682 days old) by thomasortega (El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora de Los Angeles de Porciúncula)   |   | |
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Starting my laundry day at this moment. I have more than 10 loads to do and I'll post pictures soon. |
Post# 738059 , Reply# 33   2/27/2014 at 13:54 (3,682 days old) by jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)   |   | |
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Question for you> Does Canada have this "HE" movement going up there? Are machines built to use less water by Fed Standards? I don't get the feeling from my Cuz's that they do. I think there is a general awareness up there that newer machines are more efficient but not High Efficiency. Is that true?
Jet |
Post# 738231 , Reply# 36   2/28/2014 at 10:32 (3,681 days old) by logixx (Germany)   |   | |
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On energystar.gov, one can check whether to display models that are sold in the US and/or Canada - so I guess Canada uses a similar or even the same sceme as the US.
Did a quick search on Whirlpool's WFW88HEA#** energystar says - Anual Water Use is 4582.87 gallons (or 17 348.0501 liters) nrcan.gc.ca says - Anual Water Use is 16822.288 liters (or 4 443.97835 gallons) _______________________________________________________________________________ difference is 139 gallons. Hmmm... |