Thread Number: 51361
Supreme Court Sniffs At Smelly Washers Case
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Post# 737367   2/24/2014 at 10:59 (3,685 days old) by Tomturbomatic (Beltsville, MD)        

From NBC News, a headline worthy of Variety.
Do you think this might alter the nonsense about cold water washing?


CLICK HERE TO GO TO Tomturbomatic's LINK





Post# 737375 , Reply# 1   2/24/2014 at 11:27 (3,685 days old) by thomasortega (El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora de Los Angeles de Porciúncula)        

This is still something I can't understand and it deserves further investigation.

Here in Brazil people don't have the habit of using warm or hot water. there are few models with heaters and 99% of the homes simply don't have a hot water tap.

For most consumers, when we talk about washing in hot water they would say "washing in hot or warm water? why?"

All front loaders have the hot water option (with internal heater) and can reach 60°C but most consumers NEVER selected hot water.

And we never had problems with it. clothes come out clean, nobody has skin infections because of that, our washers don't smell or have mold issues (unless you keep the door closed, but that's obvious). Most consumers also don't use other laundry aditives like LCB or oxybleach. (Maybe some people use LCB for really dirty whites only)

We also don't have problems with poor rinsing (even on models imported from the US like the Electrolux Ecoturbo or the Brastemp Duet)

What is the different factor that is causing that? Maybe the detergents? Maybe the water? The room temperature?

One thing I noticed: Using Brazilian detergents, the suds reach almost half drum but the second rinse drains clear. Actually, the foam in the drum dissapears during the drain, before the first rinse. and I never had a suds lock.
Using Tide HE made in the US, there's no foam at all during the wash but strangely there's a lot of foam on the FINAL SPIN, sometimes causing a suds lock. I always have to repeat the cycle and the more i rinse, the more foam it makes. To compare, i used Ariel Liquid vs Tide Liquid, both made by PG.

I'm seriously thinking of sending a bottle of brazilian Ariel to a member in the US that has a machine exactly like mine and make a comparison test. Who has a frigidaire affinity?


Post# 737385 , Reply# 2   2/24/2014 at 12:17 (3,685 days old) by washman (o)        
I doubt it turbo

too many sheeple have been inculcated to believe otherwise.

Post# 737386 , Reply# 3   2/24/2014 at 12:18 (3,685 days old) by Tomturbomatic (Beltsville, MD)        

Thomas, are you talking about liquid or powder Tide HE? I have no sudsing problems with the powder, but find suds more persistent with the liquid HE detergents. The manufacturers said it was due to the citrates the liquid detergents use as water softeners.

Another question for you: do many people in Brazil use fabric softeners? Some have blamed the stench in washers on the residue softeners leave behind.

None of my front loaders have odors, but the doors are kept open as well as the dispenser drawers when the machines are not in use.

I think that many people in the US who went out and bought these giant front loaders have them in places where the doors cannot be left open because there is not room to allow that and permit foot traffic near the machine.


Post# 737389 , Reply# 4   2/24/2014 at 12:37 (3,685 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)        

dadoes's profile picture
 
(from the article):  ... Sears and its Whirlpool subsidiary, along with German company BSH.
Whirlpool is a subsidiary of Sears?


Post# 737391 , Reply# 5   2/24/2014 at 13:02 (3,685 days old) by Tomturbomatic (Beltsville, MD)        

Glenn, That would be a real anchor around the foot, wouldn't it?

Post# 737392 , Reply# 6   2/24/2014 at 13:11 (3,685 days old) by thomasortega (El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora de Los Angeles de Porciúncula)        

Both liquids (as many people said here that liquids are worse for smell and mold problems)

Brazilians are big fans of strong scents. Just like mexican "mamacitas". People tend to use much more than the recommended dose. Actually, Brazilian washers tend to have a huge softener dispenser because we understand that the consumers like to use much more than the regular "1 cap".

 

With the concentrated products, manufacturers simply found the golden egg chicken.  the regular dose is half cap, but consumers love them because they are even stronger when they use the 3 caps they are used to. (of course, they are using 6 times more softener)

And of course anyone would think that it makes the problem even worse for us. the answer is NO. Our washers still don't smell and we still don't have problems with mold.

As I said before, the only way to have nasty odors or mold in a front loader in Brazil is when people keep the door closed after use.
And at least on my washer (Electrolux Ecoturbo - Same Frigidaire Affinity in the U.S.), i never had to keep the door wide open. I close it until the door is out of the way, but without locking it. Theres a only gap so small that wouldnt fit my finger. but after years, it seems to be enough to make my washer smell like new after years of use. And I never keep the dispenser drawer open only because i'm too lazy to do that. I just remove it to clean the residues once a month and I never had mold in it too.

Other thing I also noticed: When I use brazilian detergents (Ariel, Omo, Ype, Ace,) or argentinian detergents (Skip, Ala, etc), no matter if they are powder or liquids, after a week without using the washer, i notice a very delicate SOFTENER scent in the washer, the last softener I used.

When I use american detergents (Tide, Cheer, Purex, etc) also both liquid or powders, after a week I notice a strong DETERGENT scent. Sometimes i can even run two or three loads with different detergents and softeners and the machine still smelling like the american detergent I used before.
When I use scent boosters like Purex Crystals, in a single load, the machine smells like it for several weeks, after more than 10 loads.

Also, when I run a load with american detergents, i notice the drum is still slippery after the machine is dry. and it doesn't sparkle as it should. It's hard to explain, it's some kind of oily film. And when I use any other detergents, the drum is dry like new right after I unload the machine and the drum sparkles like it was polished


Post# 737395 , Reply# 7   2/24/2014 at 13:33 (3,685 days old) by frontloaderfan (Merrimac valley, MA)        

frontloaderfan's profile picture
I too have the Frigidaire Affinity and still don't have any build-up of any kind after almost two years of use. I just keep the door open with the "fresh air latch" and it stays as fresh as it was when I first bought it.

I did not have very good results using liquid Tide or pods, which are what Frigidaire recommends with this washer. As I said in the "pods" thread, I had way too much sudsing and had to rinse again and again in order to get the soap out completely.

Since I have switched to Persil (yes, I know it's expensive), my laundry is spotless and free of detergent residue after the normal three rinses, which still use very little water, even after the WLS modification.

I have stopped using LFS altogether since switching to Persil because I don't want to ruin that delicate scent with some overpowering Downy smell. I recall the Germans laughing about how Americans want everything to smell like flowers, right down to air fresheners and feminine hygiene products. Of course, that was just a bit of derisive stereotyping, but there is some truth to it.


Post# 737396 , Reply# 8   2/24/2014 at 13:35 (3,685 days old) by Supersuds (Knoxville, Tenn.)        

supersuds's profile picture
The Supreme Court case is really just about whether there are enough people with similar situations to justify a class action. There isn't any holding on the merits of the cases.

From the lawyers' perspective, the case is about aggregating enough claims, however minor, to shake down the manufacturers/retailers for a settlement that they can take a 40% slice of. The more plaintiffs, the more money.

Any individual consumers will end up getting peanuts, if anything, years from now.

Meanwhile, the same torrent of bad laundry advice will continue ricocheting around the internet, and the same lazy people will fail to take care of their laundry equipment and be angry when they have problems.


Post# 737413 , Reply# 9   2/24/2014 at 15:17 (3,685 days old) by whirlcool (Just North Of Houston, Texas)        

I think it's a combination of liquid detergents and plastic outer tubs that cause the problem. As Thomas stated, the liquid detergents leave behind some kind of residue, and it sticks to plastic outer drums like glue. This provides a perfect breeding ground for mold. It seems that those who use powdered detergents have less of a problem.

Post# 737418 , Reply# 10   2/24/2014 at 15:31 (3,685 days old) by donprohel (I live in Munich - Germany, but I am Italian)        
What about the fabric softener?

In my life I have used only 3 fabric softeners:

1) Italian store brand: no problem with the dispenser, just some waxy residue, but no mildew

2) Ecover (UK version): same as number 1) above

3) Seventh Generation Free and Clear (USA version): well... yes, mildew in the detergent drawer. When I used it undiluted, it caused reddish and then black mould residues even leaving open the detergent drawer. Now I used it pre-diluted 50% with water, there is less mildew, but still there is some, and again even if the detergent drawer is left open.

Could it be that the problem is just a different formulation?


Post# 737420 , Reply# 11   2/24/2014 at 16:04 (3,685 days old) by washer111 ()        
Softeners "Stink" at Heavy Dosage

I thin the issue you might be seeing is the fabric softeners or *very scented* detergents covering the odour of a dirty washer. 

 

Remember that softeners are a waxy compound that do form biofilms in the washer very quickly unless removed with hot washes. There is no way any machine used with such copious amounts of softener wouldn't have a mould problem - since the biofilm provides a place for the spores to 'swarm and multiply,' not to mention your cold temps are so warm they would encourage the growth of such organisms. 

 

Just because you cannot see a problem, doesn't mean its non-existent. 

 

As for the claims about cold-water cleaning, again, this is particularly related to your very warm cold temperatures. I would hazard to suggest though that if you found a hot tap and used it and washed whites at 60º, or hotter, you'd find they would be much cleaner than just with "cold" water. That is just a fact of life.  


Post# 737431 , Reply# 12   2/24/2014 at 16:44 (3,685 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA)        
Micro-Dosing

mrb627's profile picture
I suspect the big issue is users micro-dosing laundry detergent because they were told to do so by their salesperson or they have witnessed a couple bubbles in the rinse and conclude they can use less.

Malcolm


Post# 737441 , Reply# 13   2/24/2014 at 17:12 (3,684 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie)        

frigilux's profile picture
Thomas-- What is the temperature of your cold water at the tap? The cold water temperature here in Minnesota can be as low as 45 degrees Fahrenheit in the winter (7.22 Celsius). I would assume your temperature is substantially higher, and maybe that's why Brazilians have better results washing exclusively in cold water.

Post# 737442 , Reply# 14   2/24/2014 at 17:13 (3,684 days old) by Hoover1100 (U.K.)        
Why is a court of law even entertaining this case?

Washing machines develop mould and smell because of constant washing at low temperatures, not using enough detergent, not using any bleaching agents (or degergents containing them) and leaving the door closed between loads/leaving the completed load in the machine for ages after it has finished.

Use a combination of small doses of low quality detergent, never use bleach, always wash in cold water and leave the load sitting in the machine with the door shut and I can guarantee almost any washing machine will develop a stink over time, it is NOT a design flaw, simply user error.


Post# 737444 , Reply# 15   2/24/2014 at 17:29 (3,684 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)        

dadoes's profile picture
 
I'm surprised that (apparently) no one on the defense for this case has presented several specimens of toploaders with mold/smutz infestation as evidence the issue is not specific to frontloaders ... it's not difficult to find them.  Or maybe they have and it's not relevant?


Post# 737459 , Reply# 16   2/24/2014 at 18:45 (3,684 days old) by Tomturbomatic (Beltsville, MD)        

Supersuds, The article at the link stated:

"The U.S. Supreme Court on Monday rejected an appeal from the makers of front-loading clothes washers who face class-action lawsuits, involving potentially millions of customers, that claim a design flaw causes a musty odor.

The legal issue was whether the claims of consumers are similar enough to justify a class action, consolidating all the individual lawsuits into one massive case. Now that the Supreme Court has declined to weigh in, lawyers for consumers can continue pursuing their suits in the lower courts."


The appeal before the court was not about getting enough people for a class action suit. It was about not entertaining an appeal from the machine manufacturers that would have interfered with the pursuit of the suits in lower courts. Frankly, I hope that the machines will have to wash & rinse better so that soil residue is not left in the machine. All of this stuff about special washer cleaners and cleaning cycles is bullshit. From the very first automatic washer, the ads have stated that automatic washers clean themselves and any good machine should still do that. Manufacturers have been taking money in the form of research grants and design bonuses from the government to tighten down the water requirements of their washers and dishwashers and if these manufacturers have to lose a few of their ill-gotten millions, TFB. If the washer manufacturers say that their machines are the way they are because of the DOE and EPA, I hope those agencies are hauled into court and reamed out. Any machine that leaves deposits of soil and organic growth culture media inside the machine is not doing the job expected of it. If there really is as much crap on the outside of the drum as is shown in the animation in the washer cleaning product commercials, something is terribly wrong somewhere and I think a few lawsuits are the perfect way to get to the bottom of it.


Post# 737465 , Reply# 17   2/24/2014 at 19:06 (3,684 days old) by washman (o)        

This post has been removed by the webmaster.



Post# 737481 , Reply# 18   2/24/2014 at 20:20 (3,684 days old) by washer111 ()        
I Should Add

If you are using that much softener on your clothes, its actually a wonder they are "clean," and not just stinking heaps of wax-laden cotton...

 

I very much doubt that cold water could remove that, considering my experiences with washing Darks at 30° - I eventually got fed up and had to wash at warmer temperatures - typically 40°.


Post# 737486 , Reply# 19   2/24/2014 at 20:30 (3,684 days old) by DirectDriveDave ()        

Another reason why I love my warm rinses. 


Post# 737513 , Reply# 20   2/24/2014 at 22:30 (3,684 days old) by terryT ()        
phosphate?

thomasortega said,
"One thing I noticed: Using Brazilian detergents, the suds reach almost half drum but the second rinse drains clear. Actually, the foam in the drum dissapears during the drain, before the first rinse. and I never had a suds lock.
Using Tide HE made in the US, there's no foam at all during the wash but strangely there's a lot of foam on the FINAL SPIN, sometimes causing a suds lock. I always have to repeat the cycle and the more i rinse, the more foam it makes. To compare, i used Ariel Liquid vs Tide Liquid, both made by PG."

Is it possible that Brazilian detergents still have some phosphate content? That's what this sounds like. Suds on wash in cold water and excellent rinsing characteristics. That's why you get clean clothes and a clean machine with cold water.

Look for STPP (sodium tripolyphosphate) on the label. I don't know if there would be a complete ingredient list on the label but it's worth a look.

There are still laundry detergents available in the USA for commercial and institutional environments that have some level of phosphate content. They act as described above.

I'm not advocating either way on phosphate detergent. It's just an observation.


Post# 737525 , Reply# 21   2/24/2014 at 23:01 (3,684 days old) by Supersuds (Knoxville, Tenn.)        

supersuds's profile picture
Tom, the issue was Whirlpool et al. objecting to how many class members could be certified and I just want to emphasize that this was a procedural ruling, not any judgment on the merits. The plaintiffs are asking for a very expansive class, including people who might have problems in the future, which (I am cynically pointing out) benefits the Big Law firms involved in the action, but doesn't increase damages due to the individual plaintiffs who actually have experienced smelly washers. Believe me, you wouldn't see this high priced legal talent deployed if a large class couldn't be certified. That means a bigger pot of fees at the end of the rainbow. From a plaintiff lawyer's point of view, that's what it's all about. ;)

The lower courts concluded that the larger class was proper, and the Supreme Court did not see a basis for review.

That doesn't mean I think the plaintiffs don't have a case; I think they may very well have one, and certainly they've presented enough evidence to be heard in a court of law.

For those who are interested, a link to Whirlpool's brief is here:

sblog.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-content...

The plaintiff's response is here. Read it if you want to understand how the courts could entertain the suit:

sblog.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-content...

It will be interesting to see the factual issues kicked around at trial, if there is not a settlement. The plaintiffs say that all of the washers have these common faults: "None prevents mold from forming, eliminates mold during a self-cleaning cycle, or allows consumers to remove mold manually."

The U.S. District Court defined the issues to be resolved as: 1) the
existence of a design defect; (2) whether that defect was a “substantial factor” leading to the mold problem in all machines; (3) Whirlpool’s knowledge of the design defect;(4) whether Whirlpool was required to warn purchasers about the mold problem prior to sale; and (5) whether the withheld information about the mold problem was “material,” which triggers a presumption of reliance under Ohio law. These are the things that have to be resolved at trail before any liability is determined.

Hope that helps with some questions presented here.


Post# 737532 , Reply# 22   2/24/2014 at 23:40 (3,684 days old) by alr2903 (TN)        

 I saw "Mr Williams" give the report on the news tonight.  How far back could the legal ramifications reach?  Has the statue of limitations run out?  Will WP have to dig up the old file boxes from MT?  I have never owned a F/L.  You know folks will lawyer up, kids with allergies and things I have not thought of. 

alr


Post# 737539 , Reply# 23   2/25/2014 at 00:55 (3,684 days old) by thomasortega (El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora de Los Angeles de Porciúncula)        

Detergents here in Brazil are STPP free since 2005. About STPP, Brazil is much more paranoid than the US. In the US one can still find some products that contain STPP (detergents for professional use, fertilizers, herbicides, etc) In Brazil it was totally banned and it's used is severely controlled by IBAMA, ANVISA and even the Federal Police. Some laboratories and universities can use it for researches or educational puproses only.

The tap water can vary from region to region and according to the weather. In my city, the coldest water i get is 15°C during a very severe winter and the average temperature is 30°C during the summer, when my building's chiller is running. But some other regions can get much colder water during the winter and is some regions water can freeze in the pipes.

It's evident that I know the differences of washing with hot water. I even installed a tankles water heater only to fill my washer with super hot water. I washed for many years using super hot but then I realized that it made no significant (visible) difference on most regular stains. Of course, i use hot water sometimes when i know the stains are hard to remove with cold water. Depending on the kind of stain, i don't even try to wash it on cold, iset it to hot right on the first try.

About the "liquid" detergents, please note that i don't use only liquids and the same issues i got using powder american detergents too.

There is something more or something less in american detergents, this is an obvious fact. But what would it be?

 

 

Other thing I noticed it that LFS manufacturers finally listened to the consumers. Until a few years ago, all LFS were thick as molasses. They were horrible in the dispensers as they wouldn't even dillute and fall from the dispenser. Top loaders with an american style softener dispenser in the agitator were hated in Brazil because of that.
Consumers were so stupid at that time that they thought a LFS should need to be pulled from the cap with a finger, otherwise it would be "weak".
Finally with the super concentrated softeners it changed and all our softeners are now as liquid as water and they don't leave any residues behind, however, they still make the clothes soft and smelling good, except by the new Downy Fusion that smells like bubble gum. I bought a bottle of it to try and had the stupid idea to wash all my bed linen, including the duvet and the pillows with it. I LOVE strong softener scent but that one was a nightmare. It was like sleeping in a fruit salad bowl..

Other thing that came in my mind now.... maybe the water? Water in Brazil is so soft that if you ask to 99% of the population what is "hard water" they would answer "ice". Most people simply don't know what is hard water.


Post# 737562 , Reply# 24   2/25/2014 at 09:55 (3,684 days old) by cookietaster12 ()        

I do not understand what the trouble is with front loaders! If you follow the instructions, which clearly tell you to leave the door cracked and to use the cleaning cycle once a month, then you will not have issues with odor. People use way to much fabric softner and detergent because they feel that the clothes are not clean if they don't see suds. Suds do not indicate clean clothes. I just dont get it.

I have had my Maytag front loader set for 5yrs this coming April, and I have never had an issue with odor. I only keep the door cracked, use HE detergent, and run the cleaning cycle once a month. Thats is! What is so hard about that??????


Post# 737567 , Reply# 25   2/25/2014 at 10:12 (3,684 days old) by rp2813 (Sannazay)        

rp2813's profile picture

Seems to me that a class action suit would be a waste of time and effort, would probably not effect any positive change going forward, and would possibly trigger some annoying and/or unsightly idiot-proofing measures instead.

 

Everybody who chooses to participate in the class action will get a check for something like $3.47 two years from now after they've forgotten all about it, and their washers will still smell.

 

And then there's P&G, who is making money selling freshener for stinky washers and I presume would like to continue doing so.  I suspect they'd contribute a fair amount of funds to the defense.

 

 


Post# 737573 , Reply# 26   2/25/2014 at 10:31 (3,684 days old) by kb0nes (Burnsville, MN)        

kb0nes's profile picture
Its a shame because this is fully a user induced problem. The inability to leave the door open or adapt ones laundry practices slightly is the only issue. This explains why there are many people that never have problems with their front load machines. Pity in today's society people have it so ingrained in their mind that the "customer is always right" that the user of course isn't to blame, so sue the manufacturer!

The manufacturers have responded with cleaning cycles which should help, both with eliminating smells and lawsuits. I think eventually they will end up with all models having small blow down fans to help dry the interiors and allow the user to keep the door shut.

I'd love to install a FL machine at my girlfriends parents house. They do 10+ loads of laundry a week and they are on a septic system. Going to a front loader would sure minimize the water usage. But their laundry habits would have the machine stunk up in 6 months and they would be part of this class action suit ASAP...


Post# 737732 , Reply# 27   2/26/2014 at 02:36 (3,683 days old) by jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)        
Thomas

jetcone's profile picture

this may help answer your question about P&G detergents and the suds you see in rinse. About 3-5 years ago P&G developed a new type of surfactant based on alkyl-sulfate. Its purpose was to be able to wash in cooler water temperatures, they are still seeking patent on this as of the last time I checked but it is in use in the liquid & powder formulations. 
I find using it the water gets slipperier and slipperier the colder the water gets , I also find more suds in the rinse and I find to get it out of the clothes, well when I tried it in the Easy Spin Drier - a large agitator tub machine- it took 5! tub fills to get the rinse water to feel clean and the clothes to feel rinsed. It doesn't seem to rinse out easily at all, and the cooler the water the better it seems to hang on to the clothing.

 


Post# 737736 , Reply# 28   2/26/2014 at 02:50 (3,683 days old) by arbilab (Ft Worth TX (Ridglea))        

arbilab's profile picture
I'll just briefly restate that my 1998 ElectroFrigiWhite FL never smelled of anything but Tide and the neoprene boot. I toweled the boot and dispenser and left the door ajar but no other 'heroic measures' were required. Most washes were mixed/colors at ~100F.

The family's Westinghouse slant FLs never smelled either, with or without the boot dried and the door ajar. Though they were lucky to get maybe 2 days off a week in a family of 6. Permpress hadn't been invented yet so most washes were hot. But some were diapers.

When the pump failed in this building's coinop Neptune FL and sat full of water for several days, it smelled like satan's sweatsocks. Before I used it I ran a hot cycle of detergent and bleach only, to make sure that smell didn't follow me home. But even with no care at all such as drying the boot and leaving the door ajar, nothing approaching that smell ever happened again.

Frankly I don't know what the lawsuit machines or owners are doing wrong. But I can tell you this. I have inadvertantly (they contacted ME) been a plaintiff in several class-action lawsuits, they all won, and I never got more than $19.95 from the judgement. So anyone suing the manuf'rs can count on no more than a modest cheeseburger dinner for a family of 3 when they win. No supersizing.


Post# 737767 , Reply# 29   2/26/2014 at 07:01 (3,683 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie)        

frigilux's profile picture

...and I never got more than $19.95 from the judgement

 

Damn it!  There goes my Plan B for retirement!

 

Have used front-loaders as daily drivers since 1987, and never a problem with odors.  They have all been WCI or Electrolux machines.

 


Post# 737782 , Reply# 30   2/26/2014 at 08:09 (3,683 days old) by gansky1 (Omaha, The Home of the TV Dinner!)        
Defense need only ask AW.org

gansky1's profile picture

User Error.  I can't imagine it will be too hard to prove.

 

 I'm familiar with lots of front loading washers of all brands and almost never see mold and odor problems.  "Heroic measures"  love that!  I don't know anyone who does, just simple common sense.  Hot water cycles now and then, door open when not in use and occasional wipe down.  Appliances have almost never been completely self-cleaning, from the washer lid openings and dispensers to oven door frames on self-cleaning ovens, they've all needed at least a little attention from the owner to stay clean.


You're right about the settlement amounts, I had a Whirlpool water heater that was the subject of a lawsuit a few years back and WP mailed out new burner parts to everyone who'd bought one these models.  Mine had no issues until nearly the end of the warranty.  When the new parts didn't solve the auto-extinguish-pilot problem, I called WP and they had me take the unit back to Lowes and gave me a whole new water heater.  This seemed extraordinary for an appliance that had only a few weeks left on the five year warranty, but I didn't argue, just took my new heater home.  I seriously doubt that will be the case with the washers.

 


Post# 737805 , Reply# 31   2/26/2014 at 09:37 (3,683 days old) by roscoe62 (Canada)        
Is it possible

with these machines using less water would it help the plaintiff argue their case? Or do the newer machines just clean and rinse better with lower water? My Duet is an older model, that uses more water, so I've been told, I have no issues with mold, etc, so is it a result of more water use and proper machine care, or just maintenance on the machine ?

Post# 737986 , Reply# 32   2/27/2014 at 07:31 (3,682 days old) by thomasortega (El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora de Los Angeles de Porciúncula)        

Starting my laundry day at this moment. I have more than 10 loads to do and I'll post pictures soon.
I'm going to use both brazilian and american detergents to compare. 


Post# 738059 , Reply# 33   2/27/2014 at 13:54 (3,682 days old) by jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)        
Roscoe

jetcone's profile picture
Question for you> Does Canada have this "HE" movement going up there? Are machines built to use less water by Fed Standards? I don't get the feeling from my Cuz's that they do. I think there is a general awareness up there that newer machines are more efficient but not High Efficiency. Is that true?

Jet


Post# 738097 , Reply# 34   2/27/2014 at 16:28 (3,682 days old) by whirlcool (Just North Of Houston, Texas)        

Everybody who chooses to participate in the class action will get a check for something like $3.47 two years from now after they've forgotten all about it, and their washers will still smell.

It may be even worse than that, they may just get a handful of coupons in the amount of $0.10 each to be used towards the purchase of "Affresh" only. And each coupon can only be used for 1 year.

The only people who make money in these kinds of lawsuits are the lawyers. Remember the Kodak instant camera class action suit? After about five years of wrangling, the people in the suit got some coupons totally $25.00 towards the purchase of Kodak film products only. No cash awards. The lawyers walked away with millions.


Post# 738196 , Reply# 35   2/28/2014 at 04:27 (3,681 days old) by roscoe62 (Canada)        
@jetcone

My current duet was made in Germany, and it is going to be sold with the house.
So when I looked at the newer ones, they are manufactured in the US, so I'm assuming that these newer machines will have the same standards, as I don't of anyone who has a new HE machine to compare.
Tks


Post# 738231 , Reply# 36   2/28/2014 at 10:32 (3,681 days old) by logixx (Germany)        

logixx's profile picture
On energystar.gov, one can check whether to display models that are sold in the US and/or Canada - so I guess Canada uses a similar or even the same sceme as the US.

Did a quick search on Whirlpool's WFW88HEA#**

energystar says - Anual Water Use is 4582.87 gallons (or 17 348.0501 liters)
nrcan.gc.ca says - Anual Water Use is 16822.288 liters (or 4 443.97835 gallons)
_______________________________________________________________________________
difference is 139 gallons.

Hmmm...


Post# 738423 , Reply# 37   3/1/2014 at 04:41 (3,680 days old) by alr2903 (TN)        

I will ask again please, is there a statue of limitations, how far back does this go? Is whirlpool on the hook for Maytag issues?  Thank you.  alr



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