Thread Number: 51446
I don't understand why manual filter dishwashers are so popular... |
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Post# 738083   2/27/2014 at 15:27 (3,682 days old) by murando531 (Augusta, Georgia - US)   |   | |
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...especially with how lazy society has gotten in general when it comes to "chores" like laundry and dishes; hence the popularity of terrible detergent pods and Auto-Sense cycles. Why is it appealing to get down in the bottom of the machine and unscrew a filter that has to be cleaned after every load (unless you scrub the dishes clean before loading them, again, adding more work and water consumption) if the majority of people "don't want to have to think about it"? Consumer Reports adds to every review "has a manual filter that needs to be cleaned periodically, which you might prefer over the noise of a self-cleaning dishwasher", but upon hearing a true self cleaning automatic and a filtered model side by side, the new ones are actually louder, considering that you hear the mechanism every 10 minutes or so that alternates the flow to each wash arm. The only sound that an older self-cleaning machine (PowerClean or Point Voyager) makes is a quiet hum and the muffled sound of water cascading around the machine. Plus, the difference in the results of the older models is like night and day compared to the shortcomings of these new eco-models.
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Post# 738086 , Reply# 1   2/27/2014 at 15:49 (3,682 days old) by Pulsator (Saint Joseph, MI)   |   | |
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My dad has had a Bosch dishwasher with a manual filter since 2005, my mom has had the same model since 2006. Neither of them scrub or rinse the dishes, only scrape the chunks off, and we have never ever had to clean the filer. We check the filters every couple of months but the filters are always spotlessly clean just like the dishes that come out of the dishwashers.
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Post# 738093 , Reply# 3   2/27/2014 at 16:17 (3,682 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands)   |   | |
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I have always had dishwashers with "manual filters". But as long as you use a good detergent, those filters don't need cleaning. Dirt will be dissolved and pumped down the drain. The filters are self cleaning. This has nothing to do with eco, in Europe we always had this kind of filter. There are less moving parts, so less can break down.
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Post# 738094 , Reply# 4   2/27/2014 at 16:19 (3,682 days old) by petek (Ontari ari ari O )   |   | |
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Post# 738096 , Reply# 5   2/27/2014 at 16:25 (3,682 days old) by logixx (Germany)   |   | |
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I suppose the biggest misconception is that people tend to confuse dryer lint filters with dishwasher filters. Lint screens in dryers have to be cleaned after each use - dishwasher filters not.
We made oatmeal cookies a few days ago: a real sticky mess covering several bowls and utensils. The next day, I threw everything in the Bosch and 55 minutes everything was spotless. Water usage was 2.6 gal for a 150F wash, heated rinse, 150F final rinse and ten minutes of drying. Besides, I'd rather take 20 seconds to remove a piece of broken glass, a bit of paper/sticker or the infamous "fibrous material" from a manual clean filter than to remove the pump assembly because the grinder chocked on it. Alex |
Post# 738100 , Reply# 7   2/27/2014 at 17:22 (3,682 days old) by whirlykenmore78 (Prior Lake MN (GMT-0500 CDT.))   |   | |
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Post# 738103 , Reply# 8   2/27/2014 at 17:38 (3,682 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA)   |   | |
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Post# 738104 , Reply# 9   2/27/2014 at 17:40 (3,682 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie)   |   | |
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As others have pointed out, a manual-clean filter requires far less attention than one might suspect. I avoided them like the plague until I purchased a GE PDT750 in December. I've never had to clean the large flat filter on the floor of the machine, and the ultra-fine gets a rinse under the faucet once every 10 to 14 days, whether it needs it or not.
I don't do anything more than scrape large chunks off dishes. I have people in for dinner (and breakfast, brunch and lunch) frequently, so the dishwasher runs one to three times a day, and often all day long on weekends, when I spend a significant amount time in the kitchen and tend to have the most company. Dishwashers without food choppers can be quieter. The PDT750 is nearly silent---several decibels quieter than the LG it replaced. The LG was very quiet, so the whirring sound of the food disposer was actually noticeable. The Maytag, Frigidaire, and KitchenAid dishwashers I had prior to that were a little louder, so the sound of the food disposer was masked. I appreciate a hushed dishwasher since I spend a lot of time in the kitchen. A more assertive machine can get annoying to listen to after a few hours. Both the LG and GE dishwashers have alternate rack washing, and the sound of the changeovers is virtually unnoticed. On several occasions, I've had people in my kitchen who didn't even realize the GE was running. Both the LG and GE dishwashers, which use only 3.5-5 gallons per Normal cycle clean dishes and pots/pans better than the other aforementioned models, which used more water. Granted, the cycles are longer these days---the GE's Normal cycle is 1 hour + 15 minutes without a heat boost and 1 hour + 51 minutes with one---but I use the GE's Express (30 minutes) and Light (49 minutes) cycles frequently with loads that don't contain pots/pans and experience excellent results. If you simply don't want to deal with a manual filter, there are plenty of well-equipped MOL models with food disposers. And if you aren't convinced that low water-use machines can do the job, there are plenty of vintage machines out in the world that use 10-14 gallons per cycle. Cascade Platinum and Cascade Complete detergent pods do an excellent job of cleaning. I have soft water, so that may make a difference. This post was last edited 02/27/2014 at 18:22 |
Post# 738161 , Reply# 14   2/27/2014 at 22:33 (3,682 days old) by nmassman44 (Brooksville Florida)   |   | |
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I have to chime in here as well...My Miele dishwasher has the "manual filter" that really is a self cleaning one since after 40 cycles, it will nag me to clean the filters, and when I do there isnt anything in the hopper part where the food collects to be pumped down the drain. My machine uses 6 gallons of water, has the alternating arms and there is a jet aimed at the filter that jets the food particles into the center of the filter. Rarely do I have anything on the filter. And I dont pre wash/rinse anything that goes into it. I have been using the Cascade Complete pacs that do an outstanding job on everything. I have a stash of Finish PowerBalls and Quantum that I use as well.
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Post# 738203 , Reply# 17   2/28/2014 at 06:57 (3,681 days old) by kenmoreguy89 (Valenza Piemonte, Italy- Soon to be US immigrant.)   |   | |
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Gimme a grinder dishwasher machine any day!!! Not the crappy modern euro stuff with those microfilters, ie US new eco:crap and BS like that! Have to agree that while in older models with mamual filter what you may get left could have been no much like today and eventually even no trace for certain foods
like pasta, rice, potatoes or dissolvable fine foods, for others types indeed it was not and of course is not now, to make a few examples, spinach, ground meat from ragú, pieces of scrambled eggs, much of proteic and cellulose stuff... or whatever not easily dissolvable, older models despite being better thsn today still were anyway incomparable to grinding models, and now with todays machines...well don't let me speak please... i had the luck to use american grinding machines and can confirm here they sure are better cleaning! But as for everything...they're opinions.. I have changed 6 dishwasher in 5 years, all because of a poor washing, I could use the highest and strongest wash, I could do double washes, i could put three times more the reccomended dose of detergent, I could use the most TOL product available but food both on dishes and filters would be there and would not go away... I quitted using my 6 months old Bosch and I just leave it there to do mot leave an empty block under the counter, am desperately waiting and seeking to find a real dishwasher possibly with food liquidizer/grinding stuff like a VTG zoppas stovella, i am even thinking of importing an american one as I discovered an italian guy from new jersey that has a business specialized in shipping and that for a thing as big as a washer just ask 500 bucks to ship to Italy ( www.spedizionidagliusa.co...) i would also be happy with an older euro with the removable filter that at least does not leave so much of dirt behind in the machine as todays' ones.. So, if you wanted an experience and opinion, here is mine.. IMO not paragonable at all.... And wondering and not understanding such things the same way, , actually there're many other things i do not understand and i I wonder of today.... |
Post# 738207 , Reply# 18   2/28/2014 at 07:31 (3,681 days old) by ozzie908 (Lincoln UK)   |   | |
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far are the F&P dishdrawers I have had for the last 4 years, No matter what is thrown at it it gets everything clean, it uses less water than the sink less electricity than a water heater and even dries plastic items with its drying fan.
I have only on a few occasions taken the filters out to clean and as other have said above you may find an object more than a lump of food I used to rinse everything but now have 2 dogs who do the job nicely. As for detergent I have always found powder worked better than anything but it is getting harder to find so a quick ebay search found me a 10kg bucket for the cost of £10 including postage this powder turned out to be ground up Finish powerball tabs so even better you often find a unground lump of red powerball in the dispenser but that goes after a couple of cycles but the results are superb glasses shine like they have been polished and stainless steel looks like new so whats not to like? Austin |
Post# 738292 , Reply# 21   2/28/2014 at 15:59 (3,681 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA)   |   | |
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Post# 738297 , Reply# 22   2/28/2014 at 16:16 (3,681 days old) by logixx (Germany)   |   | |
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I, too, was an uneducated consumer when we got our German-made AEG dishwasher back in 1999. I fell for the A-rated ECO cycle that ran for 150 minutes, could clean practically everything and saved energy. Well, some years after we bough this dishwasher, dishes started to reek - especially glasses. I tried everything: Intensive cycle, chlorine bleach, dishwasher cleaner, different detergents. One day, I was ready to just toss the entire upper rack of stinky (yet visibly clean) dishes out of the window. It eventually got replaced with a more frugal Siemens dishwasher that has practically never been used on Eco and runs on sani-rinse every time (only adds five minutes to the cycle anyway). The Siemens has two sensor cycles for normal and heavy soil and it's all I used except for the occasional fast cycle. The Siemens never developed a funky odor and cleans much better than the AEG.
When I moved, I got another (even more frugal) Siemens off fo eBay. The only time I use the Eco cycle is when I have a light load and even then, I add the speed mode to it, which adds extra water and heat. Gabriele, my Siemens does three heated rinses when using an Intensive cycle with varioSpeed. |
Post# 738408 , Reply# 23   3/1/2014 at 00:36 (3,681 days old) by dj-gabriele ()   |   | |
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my Siemens does three heated rinses when using an Intensive cycle with varioSpeed. Wow, what model is that? |
Post# 738430 , Reply# 25   3/1/2014 at 05:56 (3,681 days old) by logixx (Germany)   |   | |
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Post# 738587 , Reply# 26   3/1/2014 at 19:02 (3,680 days old) by mielerod69 (Australia)   |   | |
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This is going to be my next dishwasher. The Miele PG 8082 SCi has a 190L/min pump, 20 amp connection and washes at 65°C for the Short and Medium cycles. Short cycle takes 17 mins with hot water connection and uses 17 litres of water.
I currently have a G 5935 SCi and clean the filter after 60 programmes and there is hardly anything in there. I love the dishwasher cake test they did in the Miele UK showroom. I have actually met the trainer in the video. CLICK HERE TO GO TO mielerod69's LINK |
Post# 738981 , Reply# 29   3/3/2014 at 11:08 (3,678 days old) by appnut (TX)   |   | |
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Me? I don't scrape very well. If it's not deemed excessive by me with what's on the plate, directly in it goes. What's left in/on serving dishes gets put into storage containers for the fridge and whatever is left on those, goes right into the dishwasher) Hence what constitutes part of the parameters of a BobLoad. Why should I scrub out the starchy remnants of rice on the bottom of a sauce pan. The dishwasher will take care of it. (I love hearing rice being ground up and purged from the soil collector). That's what I'm used to. As Gansky1 remarked to a salesman at TNFM when these started showing up in U.S. brands as Whirlpool "I have a friend in Texas. These would never do with how he loads a dishwasher." My appliances have to PERFORM for me thank you very much. And most of you would probably deem it abuse. Wes (Volsboy1) and I are cut from the same dish cloth lol.
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Post# 738999 , Reply# 30   3/3/2014 at 12:18 (3,678 days old) by logixx (Germany)   |   | |
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Post# 739018 , Reply# 31   3/3/2014 at 13:53 (3,678 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))   |   | |
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... I may try this with our Bosch slimline. And maybe one of my belover choclate cakes will be used. But isn't their a dedicated cake which is used to test the backing abilities of ovens here in Germany? Wouldn't it make sense to use this for such a test.... |
Post# 739122 , Reply# 32   3/3/2014 at 22:50 (3,678 days old) by volsboy1 (East Tenn Smoky mountains )   |   | |
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They suck bad removable filters I can't stand them.I will not buy a dishwasher that will not pass my 1 quart of hard cat food test. I dump it in the bottom and if there is anything left I will sell it.My L.G. can barley do it but there is particles everywhere I did the same with my 1984 Kitchenaid Superba 21 and all of it was gone by the first pre-wash not one particle left anywhere. I cleaned up that K-Aid there is no rust anywhere that was dirt.The heaters and everything is perfect in that machine this machine was never used maybe once or twice a year that is it.They make these new dishwasher's and use little 60watt motors for there main pump now and 5 years ago those were drain motors.They make them run with very little water and make them run for 4 hours or more to save energy, but this makes no sense in the long run.Dishwasher's used to last 14 years or so I have been replacing them every 3 or 4 years now.How can that be more efficient throwing away dishwasher's in dumps or having a dishwasher with more power and use a little more water and a 50 min cycle?I tested my K-Aid filled it full with everything did not rinse nothing threw in a cake and it was all gone in the light cycle everything was.The dishes were spotless and everything clean and dry in about 40 mins.Yup I am like BOB I wish I could mount my disposer in my dishwasher...LOL |
Post# 740913 , Reply# 34   3/10/2014 at 14:02 (3,671 days old) by whirlcool (Just North Of Houston, Texas)   |   | |
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A few months ago we put a 2 qt pan full of cooked pasta in the DW that was still about 1/2 full of food. Except for a few bits around the filter intake at the bottom of our Maytag it got rid of it all. No debris on any dishes. |
Post# 743194 , Reply# 39   3/19/2014 at 06:09 (3,663 days old) by zodawash (Lincolnshire,United Kingdom)   |   | |
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