Thread Number: 5350
Ok Canadians You got some splaining to do
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Post# 114641   3/11/2006 at 22:03 (6,619 days old) by jamman_98 (Columbia, SC)        

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Post# 114643 , Reply# 1   3/11/2006 at 22:11 (6,619 days old) by appnut (TX)        

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Joe, it's a Canadian brand. I thinik this set is a GE under the skin.

Post# 114648 , Reply# 2   3/11/2006 at 22:49 (6,619 days old) by maytagbear (N.E. Ohio)        
those sure do

look like rebadged GE's.

The cottage in Ontario we rented every summer from '73 to '79 had a nice enough Moffat electric stove (the cooktop was so-so, the oven excellent.)


Lawrence/Maytagbear


Post# 114653 , Reply# 3   3/11/2006 at 23:19 (6,619 days old) by frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie)        

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Should the Canadians actually arrive here, I have a few questions, myself; starting with this one:

When I was in a rock band and played in Winnipeg back in the early 80's, you had to leave your drink at the table if you got up to walk around in a bar. There were plainclothes security to enforce the policy. Does this rule still exist?


Post# 114670 , Reply# 4   3/12/2006 at 02:31 (6,619 days old) by petek (Ontari ari ari O )        

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History in Canada


To many Canadians in the 1920s, 1930s and 1940s, the purchase of a major appliance such as a washing machine was a major expenditure. There were some Canadian appliance manufacturers, eg, Beatty headquartered in Fergus, Ontario, and these had a reputation built on the reliability and service facilities relative to washing machines. The modern major appliance industry, however, has its roots in the American consumer-products boom of the 1950s.

By that time most major appliance products originated in the US and initially reached Canada as imports. Brands such as Kelvinator, Frigidaire, Philco, General Electric (GE) and Westinghouse became household words in Canada. Because of high Canadian import tariffs, most US manufacturers found it more economical to produce major appliances in Canada once the Canadian sales volume had climbed to permit reasonable economies of scale. The result was an industry dominated by high levels of foreign ownership, although the tariffs permitted a number of Canadian entrepreneurs to operate profitably as small regional manufacturers.

Among the most successful Canadian entrepreneurs were W.C. Wood and Ralph Barford, both of whom developed major appliance companies that have survived the ups and downs of the industry and the recession of the early 1980s. Wood survived by specializing in a single product (freezers) and exporting to the US.

By 1984 Wood was the largest and most modern freezer manufacturer in Canada. Mainly by acquiring existing small businesses (eg, McClary, Easy, Moffat), Barford put together the only Canadian-owned, full-line appliance company (GSW Inc). The Moffat acquisition, probably Barford's largest, brought GSW into the big 6 full-line appliance makers. The other 5, all foreign controlled, were Admiral, GE, Inglis, White and Westinghouse.

As early as the mid-1970s, the federal government had begun to urge the industry to consolidate to achieve greater economies of scale and become more competitive. An opportunity for consolidation arose in 1975 when White agreed to purchase the major appliance division of Westinghouse in the US. The Canadian assets were contingently part of the agreement; however, Canada's FOREIGN INVESTMENT REVIEW AGENCY intervened to block the sale in Canada. If it had gone through, White-Westinghouse would have had the scale potential to put pressure on the other 4 full-line competitors, particularly GSW.

Barford, in an attempt to protect GSW's position, negotiated a merger with Canadian General Electric (CGE), each firm contributing its major appliance activities to a joint venture called Camco. Camco then proceeded to purchase the Canadian major appliance division of Westinghouse, and because GSW held 50% of the voting shares of Camco, the purchase was exempted from FIRA procedures. By 1976 there were only 4 full-line competitors: Admiral, Camco, Inglis and White. The number was reduced to 3 in 1982 when Inglis, with some government assistance, bought out ailing Admiral.
Although industry exports had increased and imports declined (largely because of weakness in the Canada dollar), a trade deficit in major appliances still prevailed in 1982, which was the worst year the industry had faced in over a decade as sales declined by 20%. A recovery began in 1983 and continued at a somewhat slower pace in 1984. Microwave ovens represent the only bright spot in the industry. Sales of microwaves have climbed steadily since 1976, when 65 000 units were sold, to 1986, when sales reached 1 075 000 units.

Unit sales of appliances as a whole, however, had been in decline since 1978. The decline was caused by high saturation levels of core products and low replacement buying. For example, the same proportion of Canadian households (over 99%) owned a refrigerator in 1986 as in 1976. Saturation levels for electric ranges (93%) and automatic washers (76%) had not grown either. Clothes dryers had grown modestly from 55% in 1976 to 69% in 1986.

Beyond the core products, saturation levels varied. Freezers reached 58% in 1986, but room air conditioners had reached only 18%. With the newer products, Canadian saturation levels were still catching up with those in the US. Dishwashers reached 26% in Canada in 1979, compared to 43% in the US. By 1986 the Canadian figure was 38%. A similar pattern arose with microwaves: in 1982 US saturation was around 27%; Japanese, 31%; and Canadian, 10%. By 1986 the Canadian figure had reached 44% and US ownership of microwaves was about 60%.
Since import tariffs were scheduled to drop in the early 1980s to 12.5% by 1987, industry participants realized that more INDUSTRIAL RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT would be needed for the industry to prosper under international competition. By 1984 the US could not ship core products to Canada below Canadian costs, and under the FREE TRADE agreement US core products will still have difficulty penetrating the Canadian market with its 75¢ dollar. However, it is more likely that some agreed specialization in Canadian and US markets will capture greater scale economies in Canada. In 1986 exports of refrigerators and freezers reached 143 847 units, valued at almost $40 million, following an upward trend since 1984.

International trade in newer products was governed less by cost than by innovation. Products such as dishwashers and microwaves were imported because the design and development were done abroad. They were manufactured in Canada only when the sales volume was high enough to make it economical. Industry sources estimated in 1986 that Canadian production costs were 15-20% higher than US costs in core products and 30-40% higher in new products, assuming parity between the Canadian and US dollars.

All of the full-line manufacturers, based in Ontario and Québec, were affected by changes in the retail trade. Camco, 51% owned by CGE, competes largely through the Hotpoint, GE and Moffat brand names, and manufactured part of the Beaumark line for the Bay and Simpsons. Inglis, 43% owned by Whirlpool, competed with the Admiral, Inglis and Whirlpool names and manufactured the Kenmore line for Sears. White, almost wholly owned by Electrolux of Sweden, competed with the White-Westinghouse, Kelvinator and Frigidaire names and manufactured much of the Viking line for Eaton's and certain models in the Beaumark line.









Post# 114673 , Reply# 5   3/12/2006 at 02:53 (6,619 days old) by petek (Ontari ari ari O )        

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Eugene.. regarding leaving beers on the table..

Liquor licensing laws vary from province to province like they do from state to state and what you're saying about having to leave the drinks on the table was also the case back in Ontario as you say it was in Manitoba I guess. It was illegal to stand or walk around any bar holding a drink, you had to be seated. Only the bar staff could move a drink from the table which meant that if you wanted to move to the next table with your friends, even if you were sitting on a long bench seat you could not move your drinks two feet lest you be near thrown out for doing so. I'm not kidding it was that strict.
Sunday drinking was also illegal in Ontario up thru the 80's I believe except in restaurants and the liquor laws stated you must be served food with your drink, hence the "rubber sandwich" was born. People would go to the lounge area of restaurants on Sunday and just order some horrible thing to eat, or if a good customer just given some old piece of garbage to have sitting on the table.
I moved to British Columbia in the early 70's and they didn't have all those tight drinking regs nor did Quebec, can't say about the other provinces though when I came to Alberta they didn't either. I don't think Ontario relaxed it's regulations till the early 90's and finally started opening on Sundays. Ontario still controls liquor and beer distribution with an iron fist and doesn't allow private liquor stores.
Alberta has probably the most relaxed liquor licensing now. They did away with govt owned liquor stores about 10 or 12 years ago and where we once in Calgary only had about 5 govt liquor stores for a population of about 600,000, now there's about 400 little stores operating on every corner just about. Plus all the big grocery store chains have gotten in the act and opened their own mega liquor stores.
When it comes to liquor selection Alberta wins again, with only a population of about 2 million people vs Ontario with 11 million people, there are over 12,000 varieties available to be bought in Alberta versus about 3500 varieties in Ontario.
When Alberta got out of the liquor business all the preachers and naysayers came out of the closet as usual forcasting doom and gloom, children drunk on the streets, mom and pop stores selling liquor and beer to children etc.. fact is since they got out of the business and all these private stores opened and flourished, liquor consumption in Alberta decreased.


Post# 114677 , Reply# 6   3/12/2006 at 02:59 (6,619 days old) by petek (Ontari ari ari O )        

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I think most states have age 21 drinking laws don't they, I remember growing up in Ontario ours was 18 and I think Michigan was at the time as well because the bars in Ontario closed at 1 a.m. and so we'd rush across the bridge to Port Huron where they were open til 2a.m. and Sundays. It's still 18 or 19 in all provinces I think. Personally I think 21 is a bit much, after all you can vote, you can join the forces, yet you can't go for a drink legally, that's downright silly. Now of course back home all the Port Huron 18-21 y.o's cross the bridge into Sarnia to do their drinking legally. Same probably with the kids from Detroit heading into Windsor.

Post# 114680 , Reply# 7   3/12/2006 at 03:09 (6,619 days old) by petek (Ontari ari ari O )        

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BTW Eugene, were you "just a singer in a rock and roll band"

Post# 114700 , Reply# 8   3/12/2006 at 07:06 (6,618 days old) by jamman_98 (Columbia, SC)        
Thanks

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That splains a lot!

Joe
jamman_98


Post# 114702 , Reply# 9   3/12/2006 at 07:57 (6,618 days old) by mayken4now (Panama City, Florida)        
Starting with 114670

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petek, my good lord in heaven man, how in the world can you post that much at once? I have other things to do a lot of the time -- LOL

Steve


Post# 114723 , Reply# 10   3/12/2006 at 11:05 (6,618 days old) by westytoploader ()        

Cool machines!! They're probably rebadged Hotpoints, with the self-cleaning filter ring and possibly the Handwash agitator duo.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but the only true rebadged Filter-Flos were produced under the Viking name for Eaton's.


Post# 114733 , Reply# 11   3/12/2006 at 12:46 (6,618 days old) by petek (Ontari ari ari O )        

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Hell I didn't type all that, I cut and pasted it from a website, much easier.. LOL

Post# 114735 , Reply# 12   3/12/2006 at 12:55 (6,618 days old) by petek (Ontari ari ari O )        

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Austin I'm not sure either about the Eatons Viking being real FF's and I don't have an old Eatons catalog to check. Eatons dropped the catalog about 1974 or 76 and closed for good about 10 years ago now. Actually Sears bought them out towards the end and tried to revitalize them but it didn't work so they sold off many of the suburban mall stores and kept the primo downtown locations and converted those to Sears stores.
An interesting sidenote, while Eatons was in business they held the "Viking" name copyright in Canada therefore those commercial Viking ranges etc were sold in Canada under the name "Ultraline". Sears must have sold the rights because now those big SS stoves are being sold under the Viking name. Sears isn't using it.


Post# 114775 , Reply# 13   3/12/2006 at 20:12 (6,618 days old) by mayken4now (Panama City, Florida)        
Ok then petek

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you are off the hook. Just wondered how anyone could "type" all the information. You are a gem!

Steve


Post# 114793 , Reply# 14   3/12/2006 at 20:54 (6,618 days old) by frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie)        

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petek-- Thanks for all the info! I was just a keyboard player/singer in a rock and roll band. By the mid-80's I was just a bass player/singer in a rock and roll band. Don't recall that we ever did any Boston, though, LOL! (Wait...that line WAS from a Boston song, right? My tiny fevered mind isn't sure...)


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