Thread Number: 53848
Work begins on the1957 Speed Queen TOL
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Post# 761626   6/5/2014 at 08:02 (3,584 days old) by jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)        

jetcone's profile picture

This machines hails from my familie's hometown Vancouver BC. It was Ken Seto's mom's washer then his sisters washer. It was well used and well cared for. But even after 57 years of use there are some things that need addressing. And those things are usually buried deep in the mechanics.

 

I found the transmission to be completely frozen. So I started there.

 

 


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Post# 761627 , Reply# 1   6/5/2014 at 08:04 (3,584 days old) by jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)        
Getting the belts off was a chore!

jetcone's profile picture

Since the transmission was frozen it took herculian knuckle effort to move things enough to get the belts off the pump pulley but here is the tranny out on the lab bench:


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Post# 761628 , Reply# 2   6/5/2014 at 08:06 (3,584 days old) by jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)        
The dark goo in the

jetcone's profile picture

tranny was the lubricating oil in 1957. Today it is basically mud. No flow no lubrication and because these transmissions are exposed to atmosphere it has oxidized and evaporated so that the factory fill level is no longer there.

 


Post# 761633 , Reply# 3   6/5/2014 at 08:17 (3,584 days old) by jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)        
First a full cleaning

jetcone's profile picture

to find out whats up with the frozen pinion gearing, thats the little post beside the big wheel.

 

You can see from the photographic evidence what happened :

This type of transmission depends on flowing oil to operate, it has pinions sunk in large bearings with oil galleys cut into the pinions, these galleys pump oil up and around the pinions and bearings. If they can't do that the pinions will overheat and "gall".You can see the pitting on the shaft caused by lack of lubrication.

 

The thing is you can keep running these trannys if you use them everyday,long after the oil has lost it lubricity and won't notice this as the mechanism doesn't have time to lock up. But one day it will and this one did.


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Post# 761634 , Reply# 4   6/5/2014 at 08:20 (3,584 days old) by jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)        
I clean my mechanisms with Kerosene

jetcone's profile picture

its a large molecule that is almost impossible to soak into the skin or breath but you should work outdoors, another great cleaner for this is simple green. But I didn't want to use water in the tranny.

 

You can see me picking out oxidized oil from the teeth of the pinion and big gear. This is where great pressure develops between the teeth of the gearing and this is where oil is needed most. This "stuff" has turned too  a caked mud-varnish and has to be scraped out.

 

In photos 12& 13 you can see me cleaning out the oil galley in the bearings, very important! This is where the oil is pumped to after lubing the bearing surfaces, it must be returned to the tranny case otherwise a lot of pressure will build up and lubrication will stop.

 

Its important to realize every transmission of this type will have oil screws, and portholes where the oil must flow through.

Tomorrow- refilling with Royal Purple and demonstrating the full 210 degree arc-uate action!

 

 

 


Post# 761640 , Reply# 5   6/5/2014 at 08:43 (3,583 days old) by ken (NYS)        

ken's profile picture
What a beautiful set. Glad to see they're being brought back to working order. Would it have been acceptable to cut the belt instead of having to fight so to get it off? You probably plan on installing a new one?

Post# 761645 , Reply# 6   6/5/2014 at 08:53 (3,583 days old) by washman (o)        
My god!

Finally, an Arc-Cuate 210 torn down, revealing all it's machined glory!

These pics are without a doubt the best I have seen of an old SQ being repaired.

Total respect to you for getting a hold of this machine and taking the time and effort to put her back in working order!

Newbies take note of this: notice the metal in this thing, the machine cut gears and the overall quality of the design. You absolutely will not find this on any modern machine today. That is why this machine will be rebuildable and back in working order in no time!

Now pardon me while I drool as I download and save these pics for posterity sake!

And finally, please keep us posted on the progress. If you could upload some vids to youtube, I would be most grateful!


Post# 761646 , Reply# 7   6/5/2014 at 08:54 (3,583 days old) by Yogitunes (New Jersey)        

yogitunes's profile picture
WOW....haven't seen one of these apart in years.....keep up the great work, and pics, I am watching with a close eye to every detail...

if possible Jon, can you do a quick vid of the gears in motion with the top cover off?...

there has been discussion over that 210 degree stroke, now may be the chance to actually measure it...there is also something about that 'oscillation swing' that gives these a power stroke....just a unique design compared to most rack and pinion trannies...


Post# 761654 , Reply# 8   6/5/2014 at 09:40 (3,583 days old) by washman (o)        
Ok I am going out on a limb

How about a wash in or just a road trip? I'd love to come up there and see this fine machine in action!

Sorry for inviting myself but I am overjoyed at this project and also will be following closely your progress.


Post# 761678 , Reply# 9   6/5/2014 at 11:07 (3,583 days old) by Yogitunes (New Jersey)        

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I didn't want to push the idea myself....but this would have made a great restore for a wash-in type class gathering.....

but that only comes from my admiration for these solid tub machines....

question, what does the 3rd toggle switch for the washer do?....it states "Time", but what function does it play or control?


Post# 761690 , Reply# 10   6/5/2014 at 12:05 (3,583 days old) by Jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)        
Wow I haven't really looked over the

jetcone's profile picture
controls yet. I will look into the "Time" question. As I said stay tuned for the 210 arc-uate demonstration folks.

Yogi although it would be great to have a wash-in class it takes too long to restore so that's why I create these threads.
I'll look over the calendar and maybe we can have a wash in in my tiny basment!





Post# 761715 , Reply# 11   6/5/2014 at 14:42 (3,583 days old) by cadman (Cedar Falls, IA)        
Jon...

cadman's profile picture
Hats off to you- What a messy job, I can't believe the consistency of that oil! Will stay tuned for updates......

Post# 761716 , Reply# 12   6/5/2014 at 14:45 (3,583 days old) by hippiedoll ( arizona )        
jetcone...

hippiedoll's profile picture
i have to say you take some really GREAT pictures of that transmission. i can't believe what that oil looked like. it reminded me of the melted chocolate fountains that they are starting to have at some buffet places.

even though i don't understand the workings of the transmission or how it works, i enjoyed looking at your pictures. and i still can't believe how clean you got the inside of the transmission from all that oil!!!

GREAT job there jetcone.
and THANK YOU, for sharing the rebuilding process. i will be following this thread to see how it's all coming along for you!!!

cheering for you on this side of the computer....

:o)


Post# 761740 , Reply# 13   6/5/2014 at 16:34 (3,583 days old) by turquoisedude (.)        

turquoisedude's profile picture

Yikes, Jon, I had no idea that a washer's  transmission oil could get that thick and gooey...   Great pictures and play-by-play - I'll be ready if that 57 SQ that was dangled over me in Montreal ever surfaces again...LOL 


Post# 761806 , Reply# 14   6/5/2014 at 21:51 (3,583 days old) by nmassman44 (Brooksville Florida)        

nmassman44's profile picture
Jon thats an amazing teardown of that transmission. Did I see right in one of the last set of pics there was a number imprinted in the lower transmission casing in photo 4 of 4 10-21? I wonder if thats the casting date when they made the master casting from which all these transmissions are made from. That transmission was well made...not like what the SQ Eversmooth aluminum transmissions of today.
I remember the sound of that Arcuate transmission in my mom's SQ washers as it would wash kinda like a popping sound on each stroke.Very powerful sounding. Cant wait to see what else you do to these two.


Post# 761837 , Reply# 15   6/6/2014 at 05:04 (3,583 days old) by toploader55 (Massachusetts Sand Bar, Cape Cod)        
Can't wait to see and hear these running

toploader55's profile picture
The Washer will bring back memories of the "Speed Wash" on Main Street in Buzzard's Bay.

Back in the Early 60s, they had 4 Banks of 6 Speed Queens. A busy day there was a "Solenoid Symphony".

Another stellar restoration in progress.


Post# 761857 , Reply# 16   6/6/2014 at 08:43 (3,582 days old) by jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)        
Eddie

jetcone's profile picture

I love that term "solenoid symphony"! The frog pond in Chatham had the same thing in the '60s! Banks of yellow speed queens delishus!

 

 


Post# 761858 , Reply# 17   6/6/2014 at 08:57 (3,582 days old) by swestoyz (Cedar Falls, IA)        

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Wow, very nice Jon!  I love a good transmission tear down.  I'm somewhat spoiled by my pop's shop.  He has a solvent tank in which stuff like this gets soaked and cleaned in.  One of the bonus points of having an automotive hobby background, too.

 

One quick question - did you cut a new gasket for the case?  Looking forward to seeing how things turn out!

 

Ben


Post# 761860 , Reply# 18   6/6/2014 at 09:09 (3,582 days old) by jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)        
Tranny operation

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Ben, the original gasket seems fine so my new thing is to try to keep the machine as original as possible.

 

Here is the tranny operating.

 

 

Next vid will be proof positive of 210 Arc-Cuate action!

 

 



CLICK HERE TO GO TO jetcone's LINK

Post# 761862 , Reply# 19   6/6/2014 at 09:17 (3,582 days old) by jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)        
210 Arc-Cuate Tranny

jetcone's profile picture

operation! Holla its not just Ad-Hype!!



CLICK HERE TO GO TO jetcone's LINK

Post# 761867 , Reply# 20   6/6/2014 at 09:23 (3,582 days old) by washman (o)        
Magnificient!

The best vid I have seen in a long time. Keep 'em coming!

Long live the Arc-Cuate 210!


Post# 761869 , Reply# 21   6/6/2014 at 09:24 (3,582 days old) by washer111 ()        
Wow!

I think this transmission was a "sludge monster." Those in the Automotive Industry viewing, THAT TRANSMISSION is what your fine engine will look like with extended oil change intervals :P

 

Still, what a uniquely simple transmission design. It clearly did the laundry, and THEN some. 

It also looks like a very efficient, un-wasteful design. The old "Keep it Simple Stupid" rule certainly pays off, I think. 

 

Was this a fluid-driven transmission, or just directly from a clutch and/or belt?


Post# 761872 , Reply# 22   6/6/2014 at 09:29 (3,582 days old) by toploader55 (Massachusetts Sand Bar, Cape Cod)        
"Solenoid Symphony"

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Mom used to let me load the washers. Then I would put in the quarter, (Yes, the Speed Queens were a quarter in 1963) And then I would start the machines in 3 second intervals. When it came to the first spin you heard evenly spaced solenoids engaging.

Do you think I was into it back then ???

Incredible Job on that transmission clean up Jon.


Post# 761875 , Reply# 23   6/6/2014 at 09:34 (3,582 days old) by jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)        
A recharge for

jetcone's profile picture

another 57 years of quiet smooth operation!

 

 



CLICK HERE TO GO TO jetcone's LINK

Post# 761878 , Reply# 24   6/6/2014 at 09:37 (3,582 days old) by jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)        
This is a fluid drive

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mechanism, now I need to find out what type of oil they used in the fluid drive-- anybody know?



Post# 761879 , Reply# 25   6/6/2014 at 09:44 (3,582 days old) by turquoisedude (.)        

turquoisedude's profile picture

Nothing in the service book about that??  I'd guess it'd be a heavy gear oil...


Post# 761881 , Reply# 26   6/6/2014 at 09:49 (3,582 days old) by swestoyz (Cedar Falls, IA)        

swestoyz's profile picture

I just talked to Robert about this a few weeks ago while at Don's.  I figured it would require something similar to ATF, or a like Dextron III auto trans fluid, considering the fluid drive does act similar to a torque converter. 

 

Robert had mentioned that he adds zoom spout oil to the drive, and it works well for him.  I wouldn't use anything with a heavy viscosity. 

 

Ben


Post# 761925 , Reply# 27   6/6/2014 at 14:29 (3,582 days old) by Yogitunes (New Jersey)        

yogitunes's profile picture
Jon.....a million thanks for the detailed videos.....sometimes wish trannies had a clear plastic top cover, just to watch them in motion...

Zoom spout oil works best as a replacement for the fluid drive.....but there is a fine line of how much oil is allowed to function, and yet not cause the motor to kick out....

also, these fluid drives can act like a refrigerator compressor, if you lay the machine/fluid drive on its side, it may take a day for the oil to settle for it to operate correctly.....just keep that in mind....

I will check my service manuals for any indication of weight of oil, and how much equals full...I will get back to you....

man, how I wish I could be there to witness all of this rebuild....but these pics and vids are the next best thing...


Post# 761953 , Reply# 28   6/6/2014 at 16:32 (3,582 days old) by mayfan69 (Brisbane Queensland Australia)        
Transmission Oil

mayfan69's profile picture

Hi Jon

 

Great teardown and rebuild: not sure if this helps, but my Simpson Fluid Drive manuals (which have the same transmission) specify a 'viscolite H.H.' oil....that's all they say.

 

I actually have a spare SQ tranny in a box that I had sent out from the US some years ago.

 

Cheers

Leon


Post# 761960 , Reply# 29   6/6/2014 at 16:53 (3,582 days old) by jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)        
Thats interesting Leon

jetcone's profile picture

As, Mobil lists Viscolite HH as being ISO Viscosity 460 !

Equivalent to Shell Vitrea 460.

 

Thats a high viscosity, I wonder what the viscosity of Dexron is ?

After more reading I see ISO 460 is about the same as SAE 95 oil. Gear oils are typically 90 wgt. so its a little heavier than gear oil.

 

Leon I found this is the closest to your Viscolite HH, I don't need a whole gallon of the stuff so am searching for a quart.

 

 

 

 

 



CLICK HERE TO GO TO jetcone's LINK on eBay



This post was last edited 06/06/2014 at 21:24
Post# 761961 , Reply# 30   6/6/2014 at 16:59 (3,582 days old) by mayfan69 (Brisbane Queensland Australia)        
Interesting....

mayfan69's profile picture

Interesting that you mention SHELL, because that IS one of the brands mentioned in a manual for the first Fluid Drives built in the late 50's and 60s here in Oz

 

SHELL Viscolite HH....so 'could' be the Vitrea 460?

 

Leon


Post# 761968 , Reply# 31   6/6/2014 at 17:26 (3,582 days old) by hippiedoll ( arizona )        
jetcone...

hippiedoll's profile picture
thank you for those 2 short videos showing how the transmission works. i really appreciated & enjoyed the handpowered demonstration, showing the workings/movings of the transmission. and it answer a longtime question of mine; how does the agitator move back & forth if a motor only spins in one direction.
and now thanks to you, i got to see it happening first hand with your video.
so, THANK YOU for the videos.

maybe it's cuz i'm mechanically challenged, but i never could imagine how the motor's one direction motion, could cause a 2-way, back & forth motion. and now i see.

:o)


Post# 761970 , Reply# 32   6/6/2014 at 17:28 (3,582 days old) by hippiedoll ( arizona )        
question.....

hippiedoll's profile picture
how does the control panel work on this speed queen washer?? like how do you select a hot, warm, or cold wash and a warm, or cold rinse, and so forth?? the controls knobs have me confused. so please be sure to show a video of how the knobs on the control panel work. ok???

i'll be coming back to see.....

thank you jetcone

:o)


Post# 761994 , Reply# 33   6/6/2014 at 20:46 (3,582 days old) by jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)        
Your welcome

jetcone's profile picture

Hippiedoll

That's one of the reasons I post specific restoration information here.  I like you in younger days also was puzzled until I tore down my first transmission.

 

I have been reading doctrine at night and this machine gets more fascinating the more I read. I found out the TIME button has two settings one is a long wash 11-4 where the machine starts agitation 1 minute before full fill and the bottom 7-2 minutes is a shortened wash where the machine starts agitation 3 minutes or thereabouts after full fill and then !!!! it stops and soaks in the MIDDLE of the wash cycle then starts agitation again for 1 minute before spin! 

Also I learned that ALL the cabinet panels come off this machine easily and independently ! 
It is an amazing piece of engineering! 

Also the fluid drive was also used on the Doodlebug Scooter in WWII for getting around with the gas rationing.

 




This post was last edited 06/06/2014 at 21:26
Post# 761996 , Reply# 34   6/6/2014 at 20:50 (3,582 days old) by jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)        

This post has been removed by the member who posted it.



Post# 761998 , Reply# 35   6/6/2014 at 20:52 (3,582 days old) by jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)        
Clean contacts

jetcone's profile picture

and lubed bearings make for a 'happy humming motor'


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Post# 762019 , Reply# 36   6/7/2014 at 00:24 (3,582 days old) by A440 ()        

What an awesome SQ Pair Jon!
The control panels look new!!
Thanks for the Fun Videos!


Post# 762020 , Reply# 37   6/7/2014 at 00:24 (3,582 days old) by tolivac (greenville nc)        

The SQ "Arcurate" transmission mechanism is simpler than what I originally imagined!Like the way the device works-Just a lever and a few gears!Keep such a device properly lubed and it should work almost indefinenetly.I think a device such as this will outlast the modern designs we see today-and this older one can be fixed!!!

Post# 762063 , Reply# 38   6/7/2014 at 09:40 (3,581 days old) by Yogitunes (New Jersey)        

yogitunes's profile picture
oddly enough, they could have made that tranny shorter, not that space was an issue inside the machine, but seems like a lot of wasted space in the middle of the transmission...

still...a very simple design compared to most


Post# 762064 , Reply# 39   6/7/2014 at 09:53 (3,581 days old) by washman (o)        
Per SQ ad literature from back in the day

the Arc-Cuate transmission was proved in over 7 million installations. Not sure if this includes commercial laundromats and/or homes but in either case, that is an impressive track record.

I still marvel at these pics looking at them over and over and over, the gears still looking like new, the case itself in very good shape and the overall appearance given that it must have ran for a while with all that liquid mud in it.

The very fact that 57 years after it was built and is obviously rebuildable today is a testament to a good solid design along with high quality materials.

Sad fact is though, we won't find this today as cost overrides long term quality and durability. I seriously doubt my Eversmooth transmission will last half as long and probably will not be rebuildable like the Arc-Cuate.


Post# 762066 , Reply# 40   6/7/2014 at 10:00 (3,581 days old) by Yogitunes (New Jersey)        

yogitunes's profile picture
isn't it interesting that the EverSmooth incorporates the spin drive as well as agitation, and yet, still does the 210 degree stroke.....but suprised it didn't have an internal brake, much like the filterflos...an all in one unit!.....

I wouldn't say an EverSmooth could not be rebuilt if needed, but like the filterflos, you would just swap out the whole unit just for ease of servicing...


Post# 762069 , Reply# 41   6/7/2014 at 10:10 (3,581 days old) by HooverWheelAway ()        

Ooh!  I love those clean contacts!  Quite lovely!


Post# 762077 , Reply# 42   6/7/2014 at 11:47 (3,581 days old) by mickeyd (Hamburg NY)        
Thank You, Jon Charles!

mickeyd's profile picture

 

 

That totally--some might say, insanely -- unique control panel would have kept me up all night had you not explained the 7-11 stuff ;'D.  Wild !

 

And one is quite taken with  the gallon indicator on the wash fill. What other machine ever did that ?

 

Love the fudge in the tranny,  mmmmmm   mmm


Post# 762078 , Reply# 43   6/7/2014 at 11:59 (3,581 days old) by jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)        
Why thank you Fred

jetcone's profile picture

Yogi- if you look at the transmission again you will see the size of the driving gear determines the throw of the crank and the throw of the crank determines the size of the angle it moves the arccuate arm. So if you shortened the crank it would shorten the angle the arccuate arm turns through.

Its sort of like a steam locomotive in reverse order.

 

That date stamp on the case has me puzzled. Did the SQ wringers use the same case as the automatics? If that is true then it would explain a lot.

 

 


Post# 762084 , Reply# 44   6/7/2014 at 12:47 (3,581 days old) by Yogitunes (New Jersey)        

yogitunes's profile picture
you are right Jon.....I wonder what other designs they had before perfecting this one...this is one of a kind that I know of using this type of setup versus a standard rack and pinion that most others copied...

heres Eddy1210 '57 SpeedQueen.....shouldn't yours also have the all metal agitator with vanes all the way to the top?...or was it replaced at one time...






Post# 762085 , Reply# 45   6/7/2014 at 13:03 (3,581 days old) by washman (o)        
Here's a lousy diagram

from searspartsdirect.

Seems the EverSmooth works of a rack of sorts?

www.searspartsdirect.com/partsdir...


Post# 762092 , Reply# 46   6/7/2014 at 14:17 (3,581 days old) by Yogitunes (New Jersey)        

yogitunes's profile picture
its is very hard to tell what does what in the diagram....

and not sure about your local dealer, but mine has a tranny on display, with a crank handle, and certain areas are cut out so you can see the mechanicals inside working...

although makes you wonder how a tiny tranny operates with that huge capacity...


Post# 762102 , Reply# 47   6/7/2014 at 15:42 (3,581 days old) by jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)        
Mine is missing the aluminum

jetcone's profile picture

agiatator, I am REACHING OUT TO THE CLUB FOR ONE.....it has the newer white plastic one.

 

I yearn for vanes to the top! I don't see why those are so scarce as aluminum never wears out.

 

 

 


Post# 762190 , Reply# 48   6/8/2014 at 00:31 (3,581 days old) by tolivac (greenville nc)        

And like how the gears in that transmission appear to be MACHINED and not merely cast or stampted.Very High quality there-and glad it was revived.Bet that classic will more than outlast the DRECK made today!!!The only exception another new SQ.

Post# 762315 , Reply# 49   6/8/2014 at 16:39 (3,580 days old) by jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)        
Oh yeah those

jetcone's profile picture

gears are all machined all right , only stamped stuff i've ever seen is from asia. So much quicker than cutting - LOL

 

 


Post# 762355 , Reply# 50   6/8/2014 at 19:48 (3,580 days old) by washman (o)        
......and cheaper too!

:)

Post# 762476 , Reply# 51   6/9/2014 at 09:19 (3,579 days old) by washman (o)        
Here's some OEM tranny lube in case

you come across another classic SQ with the famous and well proven Arc-Cuate 210


http://www.ebay.com/itm/Speed-Queen-Unop...


CLICK HERE TO GO TO washman's LINK on eBay


Post# 762478 , Reply# 52   6/9/2014 at 09:41 (3,579 days old) by jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)        
WOW

jetcone's profile picture

Neat find there Ben ! 


Post# 762482 , Reply# 53   6/9/2014 at 09:57 (3,579 days old) by washman (o)        
I'm always on the prowl

For classic SQ stuff.

Post# 762540 , Reply# 54   6/9/2014 at 16:12 (3,579 days old) by christfr (st louis mo)        

christfr's profile picture
very nice indeed

Post# 762566 , Reply# 55   6/9/2014 at 18:44 (3,579 days old) by eddy1210 (Burnaby BC Canada)        

eddy1210's profile picture
Wow Jon, you finally got a SQ set, yay! Those are beautiful! You shipped them all the way from here? Let me look to see what agitators I have.

Post# 762582 , Reply# 56   6/9/2014 at 19:47 (3,579 days old) by Jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)        
Eddie

jetcone's profile picture
nice avatar ! Was that taken on your EU trip??

I would love to find an aluminum high vane!!

Thanks for looking!



Post# 762583 , Reply# 57   6/9/2014 at 19:58 (3,579 days old) by Unimatic1140 (Minneapolis)        
I would love to find an aluminum high vane!!

unimatic1140's profile picture
Jon I have one here for you, from my old '57 Speed Queen if you want it.

Post# 762591 , Reply# 58   6/9/2014 at 20:31 (3,579 days old) by dnastrau (Lords Valley, PA)        
Oil viscosity chart

Here is a link to an oil viscosity chart. Automatic transmission fluid isn't called out specifically on the chart, but Dexron III is roughly equivalent to an SAE 0W-20 multigrade engine oil from other things that I have read.

As you can see, SAE 90 gear oil is roughly equivalent to an SAE 40 or 50 monograde motor oil's viscosity. ISO 100 oil is roughly equivalent in viscosity to an SAE 30 motor oil, etc.

Andrew S.


CLICK HERE TO GO TO dnastrau's LINK


Post# 762649 , Reply# 59   6/10/2014 at 03:30 (3,579 days old) by chestermikeuk (Rainhill *Home of the RailwayTrials* Merseyside,UK)        
The Arc of Speed Queen

chestermikeuk's profile picture
Loveley find Jon, and always fab to see a childhood classic roar back to life, even more rewarding having had a good restoration.

When was this first type of 210d arc transmission first produced?

And was it for the top loading automatics or the wringer washers?


Post# 762674 , Reply# 60   6/10/2014 at 06:55 (3,579 days old) by jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)        
Oh Robert that would be

jetcone's profile picture

lovely thank you!

 

Mike I am just now getting familiar with the SQ line. I am not sure but I think some of the wringers had 210 Arc-Cuate transmissions. I looked in Doctrine and found the same type of transmission and some gears have the same part numbers. 

 

Andrew thanks for the chart it will help everyone. I see the ISO 460 is heavier than gear oil at 90, 460 slides over to 140. So the Royal Purple 145 would work as well as the Mobilgear 460.

Thank you!

I ponied up for the Mobilgear 460 so this machine should end up with the proper slip in the fluid drive!!

 

 

Ughhhh High Vane action in Eddie's machine! See how the high vane doesn't let dirt escape from the bottom of the tub all the way up to the top!

 

 

 



CLICK HERE TO GO TO jetcone's LINK



This post was last edited 06/10/2014 at 07:38
Post# 762700 , Reply# 61   6/10/2014 at 08:29 (3,578 days old) by washman (o)        
jetcone how are things coming along?

Will you have it up and running soon?

Post# 762973 , Reply# 62   6/11/2014 at 05:45 (3,578 days old) by jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)        
I hope to Ben

jetcone's profile picture

the gear oil is due in tomorrow for the fluid drive. Replacement should be 20 minutes. I just removed all the panels last nite so that belt tensioning will be easier. Its process with the three belt machines. But I took a gander down in the outer tub, couldn't find the remains of the sediment tube so someone has been in there and cleaned it out. 

I did see some rust in the outer tub so now I am thinking of pulling the tub to address that, I'd sleep better.

 

It sure is pretty all naked and cabinet-less !


Post# 763400 , Reply# 63   6/13/2014 at 07:01 (3,576 days old) by jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)        
Rust was spotted in the outer tub

jetcone's profile picture

The prior owner had mentioned the tub not holding water he thought. So further disassembly was required. Fortunately all bolts cooperated. I found one bolt to be plain steel not brass and was really scared to try to remove that but it came free, and it was not completely turned down. So it could have been the leak culprit.

 

Normally the leak culprit is the infamous "sediment tube" which is the reason I was investigating the outer tub. Usually it breaks off and is flung to the bottom of the tub which is why the tub no longer holds water. This occurred in the 1956 Easy I did last year. 

 

I was gobsmacked to find the tube STILL in place and not corroded!! See the photographic evidence for yourselves!

 

We did discover that the tub is a later model the clothes guard was the telltale culprit there.

But I did find pin holes in the outer tub so this may have been the leak Ken was referring too. Off to patch and repair - oh and of course replace that nasty steel bolt with SS or hopefully Brass !! 

 

Also a good cleaning was in order, Come on people! Even a 57 year old washer will need to be cleaned to help it along !!

 


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Post# 763401 , Reply# 64   6/13/2014 at 07:03 (3,576 days old) by jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)        
Whats odd is

jetcone's profile picture

the sediment tube was installed with the exit top jammed right up against the tub rim so that it never worked from day one!

 

The tub passed the water test below the bolt holes so the tub gasket is good= HOLLA!

 

You can see that in the photos above. 

 

 


Post# 763409 , Reply# 65   6/13/2014 at 07:57 (3,576 days old) by jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)        
Now for some deep lubrication

jetcone's profile picture

Greg was right this is a newer center post - lucky me! It has the plastic bearing on top and better water seal for the agitate shaft. 

So I pushed the envelop for later repairs! I soaked the tub bolts all last nite in PB Rust Blaster - HOLLA!

So today with careful prodding they ALL came free from the aluminum center post and I was able to clean them all and lube with NEVA SIEZE - my secret reassembly weapon!

 

And Kleen Tubs are Happy Tubs - see the photographic evidence for yourselves !

 


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Post# 763410 , Reply# 66   6/13/2014 at 07:59 (3,576 days old) by jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)        
You can see the blackening of the rust in pic #4

jetcone's profile picture

I used Extend on rust to halt it, it acts overnite turning rust black. Where you see red it has no effect but that means the rust is also not exposed to water yet so its under the wire so to speak. Extend will put a coating on that as well. Next the pin holes will be plugged with plumbers epoxy for forever sealing.

 


Post# 763418 , Reply# 67   6/13/2014 at 09:20 (3,575 days old) by washman (o)        
keep on keeping on jetcone

I watch this thread each day and cannot wait until you have it all back together. Be sure to get extensive footage, if you are able, up on youtube for all to see.

Post# 763437 , Reply# 68   6/13/2014 at 13:38 (3,575 days old) by rickr (.)        

rickr's profile picture
Great job Jon! You will have that Speed Queen ready in no time!

Post# 763458 , Reply# 69   6/13/2014 at 16:39 (3,575 days old) by jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)        
Thanks Rick

jetcone's profile picture

much appreciated.

 

Today I changed the fluid drive oil, it was like water after 57 years nothing like new transmission fluid. Also reemed out the tub support plate, and sealed the pin hole leaks in the outer tub with 2 part epoxy. 

 

It appears the fluid drive takes 3/4 cup of magic fluid. Look at the difference 57 versus new looks like.

 

I found out today her motor has thrown her hi speed coils so only low speed works, took a gander at the control console and sure enough it is set to LOW. 
Thank heavens Larry has parts-in-stock® !! A new motor is rolling this way. However Turquoisedude is going to help me rebuild the original Packard motor I 'd really like this machine to stay all original and have a spare too. 

 

 

 

 


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Post# 763501 , Reply# 70   6/13/2014 at 21:09 (3,575 days old) by toploader55 (Massachusetts Sand Bar, Cape Cod)        
Good Lord !!!

toploader55's profile picture
You are amazing.

Post# 763689 , Reply# 71   6/14/2014 at 20:13 (3,574 days old) by jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)        
Hugs and kisses

jetcone's profile picture

Eddie!
Oo and a lobster roll.....


Post# 763692 , Reply# 72   6/14/2014 at 20:21 (3,574 days old) by jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)        
Mike I totally spaced on your question

jetcone's profile picture

yes I too noticed the date stamp of 4 - 10 - 21 . It can't be an actual date as the transmissions for the wringers were longer and had an extra area where the gearing went up to the wringer. 

But the trannys are similar in every other way and some of the gear part numbers are the same too.

 

I don't have experience with wringers so maybe someone else can answer that question???


Post# 763842 , Reply# 73   6/15/2014 at 17:55 (3,573 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
Speed Queen Fluid Drive Fluid

combo52's profile picture
Is supposed to be like water, these used a very light oil much like automatic transmission fluid, ONLY LIGHTER.

I predict that if you put a heaver oil in this it will either cause the motor to stay in the start winding and maybe trip the motors overload protector, or cause the belt to slip or, ruin the friction coupler under the FD clutch.

I am waiting for the video.


Post# 763934 , Reply# 74   6/16/2014 at 06:57 (3,573 days old) by jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)        
We'll see

jetcone's profile picture

Doctrine calls for viscolite HH. which is SAE93, gear oil is SAE90. SAE90 is thicker than water so SAE93 will be even thicker. I think thats what the clutch is for under the  fluid drive.

The fluid has to be thick enough that the drive will reach lock up in order to transmit all the power to the tub.

John I would never compare transmission fluid to water but I would compare 3 in1 oil to water.

 

 

 

 




This post was last edited 06/16/2014 at 07:14
Post# 763940 , Reply# 75   6/16/2014 at 07:51 (3,573 days old) by mayfan69 (Brisbane Queensland Australia)        
Fluid drive oil

mayfan69's profile picture

Hi Jon

 

Not sure if this helps at all, but my Simpson Fluid Drive manuals state: "oil content is 270 c.c of 'Toledo Oil', which is a product of Mobil Oil Co." This was for the earliest Simpson machines in the 1950's and 60s.

 

My later manual for the 1970's models state: "270 cc of 'Teleo Oil' (Vacuum Oil Co.)"

 

Not sure if any of that makes sense.

 

Cheers

Leon 

 


Post# 763946 , Reply# 76   6/16/2014 at 08:33 (3,572 days old) by washman (o)        
Can't wait to see this machine running

keep us posted on progress.

Long live the Arc-Cuate 210!


Post# 763947 , Reply# 77   6/16/2014 at 08:50 (3,572 days old) by jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)        
Leon

jetcone's profile picture

thats interesting! Thank you another lead I'll investigate.

Jon

 

 



CLICK HERE TO GO TO jetcone's LINK



This post was last edited 06/16/2014 at 09:07
Post# 763968 , Reply# 78   6/16/2014 at 10:13 (3,572 days old) by washman (o)        
Found a fluid drive unit

on ebay canada.

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Speed-Queen-Fluid...


Post# 763978 , Reply# 79   6/16/2014 at 11:04 (3,572 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
Speed Queen Fluid Drive Fluid

combo52's profile picture
Jon are you sure the manual is not talking about the gear box lubricant?, all I know is these FD units always sounded like they had water in them when you shock them and they always worked fine. SQ used to sell a metal approximately pint sized can of fluid for these FD clutches.

Post# 764027 , Reply# 80   6/16/2014 at 15:58 (3,572 days old) by jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)        
Here's something John

jetcone's profile picture

this is interesting:

 

"Dexron VI is of a slightly lower viscosity when new compared to the prior Dexron fluids (a maximum of 6.4 cSt at 100°C for Dexron VI and 7.5 cSt for Dexron III)," from Wikipedia

 

I think we are looking at Dexron III to cover the age of this washer. Using the bob chart you may be correct on the viscosity:

 

a viscosity of 7.5 cSt translates to an engine oil of 20 wt and a gear oil of 80 wt which is lighter than what I put in.

Actually now that I think of it Royal Purple makes a 75 wt gear oil. and I've got some on hand. Maybe I'll start with that.

 

 



CLICK HERE TO GO TO jetcone's LINK

Post# 764032 , Reply# 81   6/16/2014 at 16:25 (3,572 days old) by swestoyz (Cedar Falls, IA)        

swestoyz's profile picture

Your quest to figure out the correct fluid for the Fluid Drive has been an interesting read. 

 

While the viscosity ratings of a gear oil may indicate that the 'weights' are similar to those that are automotive-like, I'd be weary of using it for this application.  Unfortunately, I don't have science to back up my gut feel.  The only supporting factors I have is my exposure to both types of oils.  Gear oils just feel heavier to the touch (or stir), and pour much slower.  Why go super fancy when others have had success with Zoom Spout? 

 

The link I've included below is from a fan website, and they list the ratings of both Zoom Spout and 3n1 Motor Oil (20w, blue bottle).  It seems that Zoom has a slightly lighter weight than the 3n1 Motor Oil.  Personally, that's what I'd fill a Fluid Drive with.

 

Ben



CLICK HERE TO GO TO swestoyz's LINK

Post# 764043 , Reply# 82   6/16/2014 at 17:11 (3,572 days old) by jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)        
Yes Ben

jetcone's profile picture

thank you for that information, I am beginning to concur. I was just reading the book "Which Oil" it talks about the history of all lubricants for automobiles from 1920 onwards. Its interesting to note gear oil of 75-80 wgt translates to engine oil of 20-30 wgt. So your Zoom Spout oil does fall into this category and so does Royal Purple at 75 wgt gear rating.

 

I will empty the fluid drive and refill with RP 75 wgt since it is guaranteed not to interfer with bronze or copper elements and I bet that fluid drive has copper inside it somewhere.

 

So independently from two different sources we have arrived at SAE 20-30 which translates to gear oil 75-80. John good thing you shook those fluid drives around back in the '60's!!

 

 

 



CLICK HERE TO GO TO jetcone's LINK

Post# 764049 , Reply# 83   6/16/2014 at 17:29 (3,572 days old) by swestoyz (Cedar Falls, IA)        

swestoyz's profile picture

While the viscosity rating may be the same on the scales, gear oil has a specific use vs. engine lubrication oil.  Back when I could smell, the stench of 75w or 80w gear oil would drive me nuts.  That tells me there is something there that isn't present in engine oil - they smell totally different.  AMSOil put together a pretty interesting document on the subject:

 

www.google.com/urlQUESTIONMARKREP...

 

Feel free to use what you want, I just wanted to provide some extra perspective from a guy who has changed plenty of gear oil from rear end differentials.  I wouldn't let it come near a Fluid Drive or put it in a Turbo Hydramatic 400, just because the viscosity ratings were similar.

 

Ben


Post# 764094 , Reply# 84   6/16/2014 at 21:27 (3,572 days old) by jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)        
Thats interesting Ben

jetcone's profile picture

so you would use the zoom spout oil? That seems to be the consensus. I don't think current transmission oil is formulated to protect yellow metals. I don't think yellow metals are even used in transmissions anymore. That has me worried, I expect there is bronze, brass or copper inside that fluid drive.

 

 


Post# 764176 , Reply# 85   6/17/2014 at 08:20 (3,572 days old) by swestoyz (Cedar Falls, IA)        

swestoyz's profile picture

It would be fun to cut open a bad fluid drive at some point, to see what materials are inside.  I bet it looks very similar to a torque converter or a very early fluid drive 'taurus' for a 50's Hydramatic transmission.

 

We've been using Zoom Spout and 3n1 Motor Oil to lubricate bronze bearings for quite a long time.  I wouldn't imagine that it would interfere with yellow metals if it is recommended for bearing lubrication. 

 

As for ATF/Dextron III, I'm not sure, either.  It can be used (or even recommended, depending on the year) in GM power steering pumps, and I imagine that there are yellow metals present either in the pump itself, or steering box.

 

Ben


Post# 764179 , Reply# 86   6/17/2014 at 09:01 (3,571 days old) by Unimatic1140 (Minneapolis)        

unimatic1140's profile picture
Jon I've used Zoom Spout oil in my fluid drives for at least 10 years. I noticed that over the years the oil in the fluid drive seems to loose it's power as it get older. I'm not sure if the oil level somehow drops or if it has to do with the condition of the oil.

What I did in my 1957 model is I kept the motor and fluid drive installed in the machine, I remove the oil plug and fished the zoom spout hose down into the hole. Then I added the oil in approximately 1/8 cup squirts. After each squirt I would replace the plug and test the torque of spin pickup. I found it was best to add at least half the bottle into the drive. The 1957 model had a manual reset circuit breaker built in. At some point torque became so great that the circuit breaker pops. When that happens I know I had too much and I used the zoom spout hose and bottle to suck out a bit of the oil until the circuit breaker no longer pops.

This procedure made for a wonderfully working machine, no more lethargic spins. I found if the tub isn't at full spin speed within 60 seconds with a full load of water and heavy towels, the fluid drive is not giving enough torque and spin speed will probably be less than it should.


Post# 764182 , Reply# 87   6/17/2014 at 09:08 (3,571 days old) by Yogitunes (New Jersey)        

yogitunes's profile picture
I totally agree with Robert about spin picking up within that time frame....I noticed more of a sluggish start off when using the gentle speed, that was a sure sign it needed some fluid added....

Post# 764199 , Reply# 88   6/17/2014 at 12:05 (3,571 days old) by RevvinKevin (Tinseltown - Shakey Town - La-La Land)        

revvinkevin's profile picture

 

 

Hmmm... it sounds like it's time to do an "oil change" in the fluid drive on my Speed Queen and I'm definately going to use Zoom Spout turbine oil in it!

 

It seem to take quite a while to reach full speed during spin and if I do a "manual spray rinse" as it's spinning, the tub slows down significantly!

 

Thanks for all the great info guys!

 

Kevin


Post# 764201 , Reply# 89   6/17/2014 at 12:27 (3,571 days old) by akronman (Akron/Cleveland Ohio)        
I should have asked way up the thread:

akronman's profile picture
the third switch across the top------TIME, 11 4 2

Did this model's timer RapidAdvance thru the wash agitation? How did this work?


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Post# 764210 , Reply# 90   6/17/2014 at 13:00 (3,571 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA)        
Good Question...

mrb627's profile picture
And is there a number missing on the lower left? Perhaps a 5 or 5.5 or 6?

I suppose the numbers on the time dial refer to the number of gallons dispensed during the was fill.

Inquiring Minds wanna know!?!

Malcolm


Post# 764213 , Reply# 91   6/17/2014 at 13:11 (3,571 days old) by Unimatic1140 (Minneapolis)        

unimatic1140's profile picture
Kevin I've never changed the oil in my fluid drives, I've only added to it. While I suspect it will be fine, I've never tested an entire charge of Zoom Spout oil in there.I think the mix of the two works quite well. At least it hasn't caused any problems. I would start with just adding zoom spout oil, as I said you might need as much as a 1/2 bottle or more. You should see a marked improvement in not only throwing the water faster, but in top speed as spin as well.

Malcolm the agitation time switch is shows four numbers, 11 or 7 for the Normal cycle and 4 or 2 for the Short cycle. If you select 7 or 2, the washer pauses every few increments and just soaks the clothes. The wash time is still 11 minutes in the Normal Cycle, but it does not agitate for the entire time if the lower time is selected.


Post# 764214 , Reply# 92   6/17/2014 at 13:25 (3,571 days old) by RevvinKevin (Tinseltown - Shakey Town - La-La Land)        

revvinkevin's profile picture

 

 

OK thank you Robert, I'll give that a try!

 

Kevin


Post# 764266 , Reply# 93   6/17/2014 at 20:35 (3,571 days old) by jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)        
Thanks Robert for the information

jetcone's profile picture

I forget where I used to buy zoom spout oil. I think it was my local HW store.

 

 

Now isn't that interesting Zoom Spout oil is ISO 32 which translates to 75W Gear oil !!! Fascinating because one of the RP oils is rated at 75W too !
Transmission fluid is thicker than both of these oils so you definitely don't want to use that! And that MobilGear stuff I was gonna try is Wayyyyy to thick ! 

 

SAE 10W non detergent oil  looks like a good candidate too.

Interesting that if Robert put too much zoom in the fluid drive would lock up too soon. So that tells me the original oil would have been a little lighter than ISO 32 Zoom Spout oil.

 

Each bootle is 4 ozs so you are adding 2 ozs on top of whats already in there. I pulled out 3/4 cup of oil.  3/4 = 6 ozs so guessing the original fill was 8 0zs  = 1 cup.

 

 

 




This post was last edited 06/17/2014 at 21:07
Post# 764275 , Reply# 94   6/17/2014 at 21:08 (3,571 days old) by washman (o)        
Gosh this suspense is killing me!

Oh how I wait for it all to be reassembled, plugged in, and churning away!

Post# 764285 , Reply# 95   6/17/2014 at 22:20 (3,571 days old) by Supersuds (Knoxville, Tenn.)        
FWIW

supersuds's profile picture
It might or might not be relevant to note that Chrysler's Fluid Drive transmission (made in various forms from 1939 to 1954) works on the same principle. It uses a 10W non-detergent oil and the manuals say the fluid coupling is only supposed to be filled to 80%, otherwise performance suffers.

A period article quoted at the link says: “Contrary to popular supposition any attempt to use a higher viscosity fluid would actually reduce the torque transmitting ability of the coupling since torque-transmission is dependent upon a high circulation of fluid between the impeller and runner and is not caused by any viscous drag between the two.”

All of that seems to be consistent with what John L and Robert say about viscosity and overfilling.


CLICK HERE TO GO TO Supersuds's LINK


Post# 764334 , Reply# 96   6/18/2014 at 08:02 (3,571 days old) by jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)        
Very interesting Super

jetcone's profile picture

thanks for pointing that out! I always was taught it was the lock up of the the two turbine blades that was crucial but this article points differently.

 

Here is the article in its entirety for the club:

 

Technical Note on MOPAR Fluid Couplings

(Fluid Torque Couplings are NOT covered by this Technical Note)

By James Douglas – San Francisco (2009)

 

 

 

Having run several types of oil in MOPAR “Fluid Couplings” over the years and heard many recommendations, I decided to see if I could approach the issue of what lubricant to use in one of MOPAR’s Fluid Couplings by a more scientific method.

 

As is well known, Chrysler instructed all owners to use “MOPAR Fluid Drive Fluid” only in their Fluid Couplings. Problem is, MOPAR stopped making it decades ago.

 

My first stop was Chrysler Historical. After a month of looking, I was told that they do not have any of the original engineering information as to the specifications of the fluid.

 

Then I headed off into internet land to hunt down anything I could find on the subject from ORIGINAL sources. I managed to find an original Chrysler Question and Answer sheet from 1939 about fluid drive from Chrysler Engineering. In it they stated:

 

“…The proper fluid is a low viscosity mineral oil, which also servers to lubricate the bearing enclosed in the coupling. The pour point is such that the oil will pour at the lowest anticipated temperature, and has no corrosive effect on the steel parts of the unit.”

 

All well and nice, but not enough to figure out exactly what they used as fluid. Later in the same document they talk about the types of metal used and the carbon-graphite seal. Hum, carbon-graphite seal.

 

I did some more digging for a few months and turned up a can of unopened original MOPAR Fluid Drive Oil.

 

An analysis of that oil, and some more literature I ran across, stated that the original fluid was a pure-base mineral oil with a Saybolt Viscosity of between 100 and 150. The fluid had a Viscosity Index (NOT the same thing a general viscosity) of greater than 80.

 

The fluid had anti-foaming and anti-oxidation additives. It specifically did NOT have any seal swelling agents as these can attack the carbon-graphite seal and the copper in the bellows. This last specification eliminates most modern transmission fluids.

 

After finding several formulas to convert Saybolt Viscosities to Kinematic Viscosities, it appears that the best match to the original specification is ISO 22 or ISO 32 oil.

 

However, the ISO 22 is just below 100 Saybolt and the ISO 32 is much higher than 100 Saybolt.

 

Based on a period (c.1947) Lubrication Industry article on fluid couplings that had the following admonishment:

 

“Contrary to popular supposition any attempt to use a higher viscosity fluid would actually reduce the torque transmitting ability of the coupling since torque-transmission is dependent upon a high circulation of fluid between the impeller and runner and is not caused by any viscous drag between the two.”

 

During my continued research on the history of the Fluid Coupling, I ran across the fact that the original company that licensed the fluid coupling technology to Chrysler is still in business and still making fluid couplings for industrial applications.

 

After a couple of weeks of digging, I found a senior engineer from that company that would have a long technical talk with me on fluid couplings. In essence, he agreed with the period information I quoted above. He added that the lowest viscosity oil that would still provide for bearing lubrication is the one to use in theory. However, he did say that unless the fluid coupling bearing has been replaced and is know to be very high quality then err on the heavy side viscosity wise. Just don’t over do it, he stated.

 

I was also told that normal hydraulic fluid does not have large amounts of anti-foaming agents in them as they usually do not have large amounts of air in the systems to foam in the first place.

 

A fluid coupling is only filled to 80% and as such has lots of air in it.

 

Therefore, when looking for fluid coupling oil, one must look for an oil that is a “Circulating Oil” which has a lot of anti-foaming additives in it.

 

I was also informed that the additives tend to have a shelf life in the can, or in use, of 5 to 7 years and it should be changed at that time.

 

I was also told that the couplings are actually somewhat permeable and water vapor will work its way into and then back out, when hot, of a steel fluid coupling. Very little amounts, but apparently is does go on.

 

I was also told to never use engine oil or ATF as both would cause problems in the long run.

 

Based on the research and discussions I have come to the conclusion that ISO 32 hydraulic oil with the proper additives and VI (Viscosity Index) above 80 is a suitable replacement for the original MOPAR fluid drive fluid. ISO 22 would be a better exact match, but only if the quality and condition of the bearing is know in a particular coupling.

 

The oil I have identified that meets the specification, with a higher general viscosity to deal with the age of the bearings, is: Mobile DTE light circulating oil ISO 32. This oil is available at Granger.

 

I have run this oil for about six months in San Francisco city traffic as well as up steep mountains on very hot days. The coupling works well. I have noticed, and other car people have as well, that the car seems to move out from a dead stop to 10 MPH better with the fluid. Only a before and after session on a dynamometer would tell for sure, but I feel that it moves out much faster.

 

Classic car owners are advised to use this information at their own risk. I am not a fluid coupling engineer, a bearing engineer, or a lubrication engineer. I have done my best to find out what was in the original MOPAR Fluid Drive Fluid. This effort is in essence industrial archeology and should be carefully considered prior to use.

 


Post# 764336 , Reply# 97   6/18/2014 at 08:05 (3,571 days old) by jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)        
In with the new

jetcone's profile picture

out with the old!

 

 


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Post# 764340 , Reply# 98   6/18/2014 at 08:46 (3,570 days old) by jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)        
I concur with Roberts findings

jetcone's profile picture

using the EASY which is identical to the SQ drive a full tub of water and sheets takes 60 seconds to empty and spin up to speed. So that will be a good benchmark when Willie gets going again!

 

 


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Post# 764349 , Reply# 99   6/18/2014 at 09:50 (3,570 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA)        
Holy Cow!

mrb627's profile picture
Look at that tub GLEAM!

Malcolm


Post# 764451 , Reply# 100   6/18/2014 at 17:39 (3,570 days old) by jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)        
New motor arrives today

jetcone's profile picture

From Larry !


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Post# 764507 , Reply# 101   6/18/2014 at 23:03 (3,570 days old) by whirlaway (Hampton Virginia)        
10 wt oil

according to my 1948 Desoto shop manuel you could use 10wgt motor oil in the converter,also in 1953 only the Chryslers used the same oil in the converter as you used in the motor,it took 10 quarts of oil for an oil change,you changed the crankcase and drained the converter at the same time.It took 30min just to drain the converter.That was the dodge and Desoto also.They did that one year only.Ive had 3 of them and never had an oil leak.They were all Hemi 8s.Late 53 the fully automatic powerflite came out.I will say with the 4speed semi automatic they would take off like a rocket!!!!

Post# 764559 , Reply# 102   6/19/2014 at 08:46 (3,569 days old) by washman (o)        
So excited!

Can't wait to see it in operation

Post# 764609 , Reply# 103   6/19/2014 at 15:42 (3,569 days old) by hippiedoll ( arizona )        
checking this thread often...

hippiedoll's profile picture
and LOVING the progress!!!

cheering for you on this side of the computer jetcone!!! i can't wait until you get this speed queen all together and up & running!!!

;o)


Post# 764710 , Reply# 104   6/20/2014 at 07:17 (3,569 days old) by jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)        
So a surprise arrived yesterday

jetcone's profile picture

from a very dear friend who shall remain anonymous. It was is GORGEOUS and is the capstone to Willie's restoration for sure.

 

What could it be people????

 

 


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Post# 764716 , Reply# 105   6/20/2014 at 08:10 (3,569 days old) by revvinkevin (Tinseltown - Shakey Town - La-La Land)        
What's in the box?

revvinkevin's profile picture

 

 

An aluminum agitator???




This post was last edited 06/20/2014 at 09:33
Post# 764720 , Reply# 106   6/20/2014 at 08:52 (3,568 days old) by HooverWheelAway ()        

Banana?   
 


Post# 764836 , Reply# 107   6/20/2014 at 21:19 (3,568 days old) by toploader55 (Massachusetts Sand Bar, Cape Cod)        
Aluminum ...

toploader55's profile picture
Agitator.

I agree.


Post# 764838 , Reply# 108   6/20/2014 at 21:27 (3,568 days old) by beekeyknee (Columbia, MO)        

beekeyknee's profile picture

A box and a utility knife. How nice! Come on, damn it.


Post# 764882 , Reply# 109   6/21/2014 at 07:49 (3,568 days old) by jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)        
Okay kay

jetcone's profile picture

lets play! Kevin guessed it first:

 

A High vane aluminum agitator - the original agitator for Speed Queen!!

 

 


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Post# 764889 , Reply# 110   6/21/2014 at 08:49 (3,567 days old) by jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)        
Where does the water go?

jetcone's profile picture

Hear the rush of air from the fluid drive, hear the monstrous suckulation of the power pump, hear the wind whipping past the high speed tub!

 

 

Lets see:

 

 



CLICK HERE TO GO TO jetcone's LINK

Post# 764890 , Reply# 111   6/21/2014 at 08:50 (3,567 days old) by PhilR (Quebec Canada)        

philr's profile picture
That's really nice Jon!

I'm impressed by the quantity of stuff you have to deal with and with your ability to do some extensive research and still manage to get things done so quickly!


Post# 764891 , Reply# 112   6/21/2014 at 08:55 (3,567 days old) by jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)        
Thanks Phil

jetcone's profile picture

its the passion of collecting that motivates!

 


Post# 764892 , Reply# 113   6/21/2014 at 08:57 (3,567 days old) by washman (o)        
Brilliant

I can plainly see that wonderful piece of Americana is ready for a load of wash!

Long live the Arc-cuate 210!


Post# 764893 , Reply# 114   6/21/2014 at 09:00 (3,567 days old) by PhilR (Quebec Canada)        

philr's profile picture

I love collecting stuff but I wish I was as good as you are at dealing with so many projects going at a time!


Post# 764898 , Reply# 115   6/21/2014 at 09:13 (3,567 days old) by jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)        
Thank you Washman

jetcone's profile picture

glad you enjoyed the ride! 

 

Phil its all timing - 2hours on this machine then 2 hours on that machine and pretty soon

Boom Boom Done!

 


Post# 764923 , Reply# 116   6/21/2014 at 10:08 (3,567 days old) by washman (o)        
The Arc-Cuate 210

proven in millions of installations, has to be one of the finest pieces of engineering I have seen in a TL washer.

Other than the gunk you cleaned out, the metal wear looks almost nil and to think 57 years after it was made, with a bit of TLC, it is ready to go again.

Amazing.


Post# 764929 , Reply# 117   6/21/2014 at 10:13 (3,567 days old) by pulltostart (Mobile, AL)        
Fantastic!

pulltostart's profile picture

I don't know sh*t about working on these things but LOVE to watch the videos and view the photos and am in total awe of your ability (as well as others on this site) to do this work.  Just incredible.

 

lawrence


Post# 764932 , Reply# 118   6/21/2014 at 10:24 (3,567 days old) by tennblondie78 (Bowling Green, KY)        
WOW!!!

tennblondie78's profile picture
Awesome job, Jon! It's so smoooooth!! I can't wait to see it all put back together and washing clothes. :)

Post# 764941 , Reply# 119   6/21/2014 at 11:35 (3,567 days old) by Yogitunes (New Jersey)        

yogitunes's profile picture
Thanks for the inside looks and operations Jon.....

Post# 764944 , Reply# 120   6/21/2014 at 12:18 (3,567 days old) by alr2903 (TN)        

Beautiful work,  very smooth.  alr


Post# 764950 , Reply# 121   6/21/2014 at 12:34 (3,567 days old) by nmassman44 (Brooksville Florida)        

nmassman44's profile picture
Great video! I can get over how smooth and quiet the wash action is on this machine. No popping noise at all from the transmission, very smooth sounding. Nice job Sir!

Post# 764951 , Reply# 122   6/21/2014 at 12:39 (3,567 days old) by swestoyz (Cedar Falls, IA)        

swestoyz's profile picture

Lookin' good and sounding good!  Did you have to do much testing with the fluid levels in the fluid drive, or did you get it right the first time?

 

Ben


Post# 764963 , Reply# 123   6/21/2014 at 14:28 (3,567 days old) by toploader55 (Massachusetts Sand Bar, Cape Cod)        
Oh, The sound of that pump

toploader55's profile picture
Brings back memories of the SpeedWash in Buzzard's Bay.

Meticulous Restoration as always. Can't wait to see Willie Live and in Person !!!

Nice Day for a Water Test Outside.


Post# 764979 , Reply# 124   6/21/2014 at 16:10 (3,567 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA)        
Slosh and Awe!

mrb627's profile picture
Amazing restore so far...

You are the master!

Malcolm


Post# 764983 , Reply# 125   6/21/2014 at 16:35 (3,567 days old) by beekeyknee (Columbia, MO)        

beekeyknee's profile picture
Jon,

What a great job and fun machine. I used to have a '60's set back in the '80's and if I knew then what I know now I'd still have them. It was so much fun. I really miss them. Mine was like the one in reply # 5 and matching gas dryer.

Brian


CLICK HERE TO GO TO beekeyknee's LINK


Post# 764992 , Reply# 126   6/21/2014 at 17:20 (3,567 days old) by jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)        
Thank you all

jetcone's profile picture

for your kind words. 

Ben I got it right, all that research and digging and feedback helped. I found out the Royal Purple was the same viscosity as the original just a tad thicker. So I used a mixture of half the original oil and half new RP filling to 3/4 cup. 

The initial test was a little sluggish but I saw the cam bar needed a slight adjustment and performed that and whammo he took right off and spun a whole tub of water as you can see.

 


Post# 765265 , Reply# 127   6/22/2014 at 19:52 (3,566 days old) by jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)        
Guess the mistake and

jetcone's profile picture

win 10 points everybody!!

 

 



CLICK HERE TO GO TO jetcone's LINK

Post# 765268 , Reply# 128   6/22/2014 at 19:58 (3,566 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)        

dadoes's profile picture
 
Hi & Lo motor wiring reversed somewhere along the path, or the speed switch installed rotated 180°.


Post# 765276 , Reply# 129   6/22/2014 at 20:46 (3,566 days old) by gansky1 (Omaha, The Home of the TV Dinner!)        

gansky1's profile picture
Aww, you can live with a couple of bugs - run get a cup of Tide and let's wash!

Post# 765301 , Reply# 130   6/22/2014 at 23:04 (3,566 days old) by jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)        
hahah

jetcone's profile picture

Dadoes gets it +10 points , I reversed the wiring on the switch. Easy fix but I didn't see it until I looked at the video!

So concentrated on getting the machine back together was I !

 

Greg, you mean powder Tide, no?


Post# 765306 , Reply# 131   6/23/2014 at 00:10 (3,566 days old) by hippiedoll ( arizona )        
WOW!!!

hippiedoll's profile picture
that speed queen washer is BEAUTIFUL!!! you did an amazing job on the restoration!!! i can't wait to see "willie" filled with water, splish-splashing away as he agitates the laundry around!!!

OUTTA SIGHT job there jetcone!!!

;o)


Post# 765312 , Reply# 132   6/23/2014 at 00:38 (3,566 days old) by washer111 ()        

Such wonderful progress on an arguably wonderful machine :)

At least it wasn't a very involved repair require unobtainable parts. That's a relief.

 

I'm with Washman on this - looking forward to some "Live Washing Action" of the machine!


Post# 765349 , Reply# 133   6/23/2014 at 07:43 (3,566 days old) by jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)        
It'll have to wait till I get back

jetcone's profile picture

from our Webmaster's wedding this week but its on the docket for sure!

 

Thanks Hippiedoll for the comments, much appreciated ! 


Post# 765380 , Reply# 134   6/23/2014 at 10:20 (3,565 days old) by kenmoreguy89 (Valenza Piemonte, Italy- Soon to be US immigrant.)        

kenmoreguy89's profile picture
Wonderful job!!!! Beautiful Speed Queen!

Post# 765398 , Reply# 135   6/23/2014 at 11:18 (3,565 days old) by Yogitunes (New Jersey)        

yogitunes's profile picture
puzzled..... was there a neutral spot between wash and spin......normally these jumped from the overflo agitation into spin......

am I missing something....or specific to this type of machine versus other solenoid operated machines?


otherwise...its still a beautiful machine......love that lighted console


Post# 765400 , Reply# 136   6/23/2014 at 11:22 (3,565 days old) by jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)        
That was the overflow

jetcone's profile picture

pre rinse I believe, you couldn't hear the water valve going off on the video.  AKA the "scum-away" cycle.

 

 

 

 

 


Post# 765407 , Reply# 137   6/23/2014 at 11:41 (3,565 days old) by jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)        
Nope you are right Yogi

jetcone's profile picture

I had the "time" switch hooked up backwards too so the pause was really for the "7-2" minute setting. 

 

Now all the switches seem to be wired proper, between the wh/red, wh/brown, wh/black, wh/blue, and white wiring it gets tight and confusing on the panel!

 

Always good to take pictures before you take things apart !

 

 

 


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Post# 765423 , Reply# 138   6/23/2014 at 13:50 (3,565 days old) by eddy1210 (Burnaby BC Canada)        

eddy1210's profile picture
Jon I appreciate all the hard work that went into this wonderful restoration! I think I was spoiled as my 57 only needed a new pump. Finally you have a SQ in your collection and now your clothes can experience being "Speed Queen clean" LOL

Post# 765438 , Reply# 139   6/23/2014 at 14:53 (3,565 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA)        
Chrome Crown

mrb627's profile picture
Now she just needs a Chrome Crown to complete the look :)

Malcolm


Post# 765448 , Reply# 140   6/23/2014 at 16:53 (3,565 days old) by jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)        
Eddie

jetcone's profile picture
You are so right !! FYNALLY Speed Queen clean !!
When you coming out to play ??


Post# 765492 , Reply# 141   6/23/2014 at 23:47 (3,565 days old) by A440 ()        

Beautiful job Jon as usual!
What a wonderful washer!
How is the dryer? Is is gas or electric?
This will be an awesome and fun pair! I can't get over the control panel on both. They are in beautiful shape!
Thanks for the videos on your progress!
Brent


Post# 765522 , Reply# 142   6/24/2014 at 06:33 (3,565 days old) by peteski50 (New York)        
Speed Queen!

peteski50's profile picture
Jon this is such a Great restoration!
Best Wishes
Peter


Post# 765773 , Reply# 143   6/25/2014 at 07:55 (3,564 days old) by jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)        
Thanks Peter

jetcone's profile picture

Im getting close to hosting a wash-in. Maybe the fall, I'll let you know for sure!

Jon

 


Post# 765790 , Reply# 144   6/25/2014 at 09:11 (3,563 days old) by DaveAMKrayoGuy (Oak Park, MI)        

daveamkrayoguy's profile picture
Wow, Stainless Steel in a SPEED QUEEN really DOES go Way Back!!!!


-- Dave


Post# 765923 , Reply# 145   6/25/2014 at 16:42 (3,563 days old) by jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)        
A quickie

jetcone's profile picture
Post# 765930 , Reply# 146   6/25/2014 at 17:09 (3,563 days old) by Yogitunes (New Jersey)        

yogitunes's profile picture
Absolutely beautiful......music to my ears....what is there not to love.....

Post# 765959 , Reply# 147   6/25/2014 at 18:53 (3,563 days old) by washman (o)        
Marvelous

Listen!

to the famous Arc-Cuate 210 moving back and forth

Watch!

As the clothes turn and churn.

Marvel!

At the kind of clean that only comes from Speed Queen.


Post# 766001 , Reply# 148   6/25/2014 at 20:52 (3,563 days old) by jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)        
Perfect Haiku

jetcone's profile picture

Washman !!!


Post# 766005 , Reply# 149   6/25/2014 at 21:08 (3,563 days old) by toploader55 (Massachusetts Sand Bar, Cape Cod)        
Good Lord !!!

toploader55's profile picture
I didn't realize they had the "Crown" on the front panel.

Willie sounds Awesome.

Maybe Willie should be the Ring Bearer.


Post# 766016 , Reply# 150   6/25/2014 at 21:46 (3,563 days old) by rickr (.)        

rickr's profile picture
Looks great Jon! I knew you would have that bad boy up and running in no time! Congrats on your 57 Speed Queen restoration.

Post# 766060 , Reply# 151   6/26/2014 at 03:31 (3,563 days old) by jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)        
I am very glad

jetcone's profile picture

to finally have Speed Queen represented in my collection, been looking for one for years!

 

Eddie do you mean the "Speed Queen" on the front panel or the "crown" on the control panel?


Post# 766096 , Reply# 152   6/26/2014 at 06:11 (3,563 days old) by toploader55 (Massachusetts Sand Bar, Cape Cod)        
The Front of the Machine.

toploader55's profile picture
I know I keep referring to the Speed Wash in Buzzard's Bay, but back in the 60s when we went, they still had some Hightop Vane Machines with the Crown on the Front.

Post# 766285 , Reply# 153   6/27/2014 at 01:49 (3,562 days old) by aldspinboy (Philadelphia, Pa)        
Jon ! I could EAT this machine too !

aldspinboy's profile picture

It looks and Sounds so GOOD !

What a great job on time , patience, 

and learning from the experience. 

 

I hope one day I will have the time ..

place and patience and talent to restore or improve some of my or possable machines in the future.

 

I went all the way to NE Philly for this

sign .

 

Best to you on the washer.

Darren k

 


Post# 767692 , Reply# 154   7/3/2014 at 15:33 (3,555 days old) by jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)        
Thank you

jetcone's profile picture

Darren, it is a nice example and it came out so well because it came to me in very good condition too.

 

I'm reading all of Robert's doctrine on Speed Queen, there are quite a few models after this one I never knew existed, even a 'filter-flo" type SQ with a Kenmore waterfall type filter.

 

 


Post# 767703 , Reply# 155   7/3/2014 at 16:32 (3,555 days old) by washman (o)        
We need to see more vids

Please.

Post# 767891 , Reply# 156   7/4/2014 at 11:02 (3,554 days old) by jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)        
IF you're good Washman

jetcone's profile picture

when I get home from Duluth it will happen-- be good !

 


Post# 767892 , Reply# 157   7/4/2014 at 11:05 (3,554 days old) by washman (o)        
Ok I will be good

Question is, what is the definition of good?

Post# 767927 , Reply# 158   7/4/2014 at 13:32 (3,554 days old) by cuffs054 (MONTICELLO, GA)        

Jetcone, would you explain the 7/2 switch again? I'm not understanding the post above. Thanks

Post# 767984 , Reply# 159   7/4/2014 at 16:08 (3,554 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)        

dadoes's profile picture
 
If I may ...

The upper position of the switch is 11 mins (Regular cycle) or 4 mins (Short cycle) agitation time.  Agitation is continuous for the duration of the wash period in the upper position.

The lower position is 7 mins (Regular cycle) or 2 mins (Short cycle) agitation.  Agitation stops for a few of the timer increments in the wash period.  Assuming each increment is 1 minute, that'd be 7 agitate and 4 no-agitate increments in Regular.  Two agitate and 2 no-agitate in Short.

I believe the numbers are color-coded for the respective cycles as a visual reminder to the user -- 11 and 7 in gold, 4 and 2 in red.

The 7 is not clearly visible in this picture, it's at the lower-left across from the 2.


  View Full Size
Post# 767990 , Reply# 160   7/4/2014 at 16:45 (3,554 days old) by hippiedoll ( arizona )        
i can't get over.....

hippiedoll's profile picture
how quiet "willie" sounds on the video!!!

very nice there jetcone!!! what a GREAT restoration you did!!! just AMAZING!!!

:o)


Post# 767994 , Reply# 161   7/4/2014 at 17:03 (3,554 days old) by cuffs054 (MONTICELLO, GA)        

Thanks Dad, I just noticed that the timer doesn't have time markings!

Post# 768021 , Reply# 162   7/4/2014 at 18:16 (3,554 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)        

dadoes's profile picture
 
It's a time-fill machine and SQ's timer design doesn't provide for setting wash time after the fill, so this switch and timer circuit allows an adjustment for it.  Probably it's a upper-end feature on a TOL model.  My aunt's mid-line SQ of 1969-ish vintage didn't have a choice of wash time ... timed-fill and the wash period was always full-length per the cycle (Regular or Durable Press).


Post# 770011 , Reply# 163   7/11/2014 at 15:05 (3,547 days old) by jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)        
Thanks Glenn

jetcone's profile picture

Now I understand the timer much better! It was confusing as this is very different programming than most other 1950s' machines.

 

 


Post# 770078 , Reply# 164   7/11/2014 at 20:12 (3,547 days old) by washman (o)        
Need another vid jetcone

I'm going through SQ withdrawal and if I don't get my fix, I might switch over to pod detergent!

No pressure..........................:)


Post# 770244 , Reply# 165   7/12/2014 at 14:28 (3,546 days old) by jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)        
LOL !!!

jetcone's profile picture
Post# 770262 , Reply# 166   7/12/2014 at 15:22 (3,546 days old) by jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)        
Wash

jetcone's profile picture
Post# 770263 , Reply# 167   7/12/2014 at 15:29 (3,546 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands)        

foraloysius's profile picture
I love those older Speed Queens! I think I said before that the wash action looks so very decisive, or should I say determined. Determined to get those cloths clean! lol

Post# 770266 , Reply# 168   7/12/2014 at 15:39 (3,546 days old) by jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)        
Crazy low water rag wash

jetcone's profile picture
Willie does it again - all over the basement

CLICK HERE TO GO TO jetcone's LINK


Post# 770268 , Reply# 169   7/12/2014 at 15:49 (3,546 days old) by jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)        
Oh deer

jetcone's profile picture
Soap lobbed everywhere

CLICK HERE TO GO TO jetcone's LINK


Post# 770271 , Reply# 170   7/12/2014 at 15:57 (3,546 days old) by jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)        
The blurr

jetcone's profile picture
Post# 770330 , Reply# 171   7/12/2014 at 20:24 (3,546 days old) by washer111 ()        
Oh Dear(!!!)

These videos are the sort of thing that lure me into wanting a TL machine again. They're just too fun to watch.

 

FL's just don't compare - but our new puppy seems to enjoy watching ours (He tried licking the water - Even though the door is shut!). 


Post# 770339 , Reply# 172   7/12/2014 at 20:41 (3,546 days old) by washman (o)        
Oh me oh my

the Arc-Cuate
is really great
on washday
it carries the freight.


Post# 770341 , Reply# 173   7/12/2014 at 20:45 (3,546 days old) by washman (o)        
I also

noticed it takes a bit to wind up to full chat on the spin, did you change out the fluid drive stuff?

Post# 770381 , Reply# 174   7/12/2014 at 21:45 (3,546 days old) by jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)        
I never knew what the original pick up

jetcone's profile picture

was on spin since this machine had a  locked up tranny. So I can't speak to the speed of pick up, only to the fact I replaced half the oil in the fluid drive and the pick up seemed good to me, no overload on the motor.

 

 


Post# 770412 , Reply# 175   7/12/2014 at 23:43 (3,546 days old) by hippiedoll ( arizona )        
willie....

hippiedoll's profile picture
sure does move that water around, doesn't he!??!!
that water is just really rolling around in that washtub!!!

LOVE IT!!!

:o)


Post# 770416 , Reply# 176   7/12/2014 at 23:55 (3,546 days old) by A440 ()        

Great videos Jon!
Thanks!


Post# 770441 , Reply# 177   7/13/2014 at 04:21 (3,546 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA)        
YAY!

mrb627's profile picture
For her CHROME CROWN!

Malcolm


Post# 770446 , Reply# 178   7/13/2014 at 05:21 (3,546 days old) by toploader55 (Massachusetts Sand Bar, Cape Cod)        
Ah Ha

toploader55's profile picture
Can't wait to see Willie in person now that your back.

I'll trade you a Lobster Roll for a White and a Color Wash in the SQ.

Oh, all right, I'll throw in some Potato Salad too.


Post# 770458 , Reply# 179   7/13/2014 at 05:49 (3,546 days old) by jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)        
Eddie

jetcone's profile picture

you're on ! Its a deal.

 

 


Post# 779703 , Reply# 180   8/27/2014 at 13:02 (3,500 days old) by jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)        
For Cross Reference here again is posted the entire patent

jetcone's profile picture

list for the Beam Design Machine: the parent company is above the patent number.

 

I’ve done a complete survey of the early Beam style patents. Here for the archives is what I have found:

 

On the Beam Design Machine:

 

There were

16 Patents

6 Inventors

4 Companies Involved

Of those 16 Patents G.P. Castner holds 10 of them!

 

In order of filing date:

Patch self patent

1,964,440 -10/27/31- Patch – 210 degree tranny, clutch for agitator engagement

 Solar Corp

2,513,844  - 8/14/46 Castner – 1st Fluid Drive, 1 point suspension, yoke style support , early snubber plates

Solar

2,513,845 – 8/14/46 Castner – FD slippage calculated at 18%, 1st FD claim made, good spin theory, first talk of “current cushion”, table of clutching / load speeds

Solar

2,502,702 – 9/27/46 Castner – “GEM of a Patent ! “ Defines terms : “water-wings” & “Flagging effect” for agitator washers !

Solar

2,623,359 – 4/12/47 Castner – Complete 4 belt machine , FD not mounted on motor, addresses end play and chatter in FD, FD engages spin tub AND agitator

Solar

2,699,682 4/12/47 Castner – 1st single motor machine, dip vanes for FD for initial pickup

Solar

2,648,213- 8/12/47 Castner – Jaw Clutch delineated, 4 belt machine, FD wash n spin, but ONE DIRECTION stop n Start motor - NOTE: This patent addresses the current draw of Frigidiare machines- its funny how he states it " For example, and from actual tests with a ten ampere ammeter in the load circuit to the motor, in my machine the starting load as the spinning operation begins may run at about three amperes, "whereas in another machine of well known make, the corresponding starting load will cause the ammeter needle to fly completely off scale" !!

 

Solar

2,625,244 11/24/47- Castner- HORRID MACHINE ! 1 serpentine belt on 2 belt machine, FD centrally located !

GE

2,646,673- 10/19/49 – McCarty- Hotpoint one point suspension, GE snubber,  2 motor beam machine,  Inventors Cited : Clark( bendix & unimatic) Kirby ( apex) , Altorfer ( ABC). This is the machine Ben pointed out was actually built.

Solar

2,699,683- 8/23/52- Castner – Uni-direction clutches, one REVERSIBLE motor

GE

2,687,633 – 10/14/50 – Sharp – Famous GE outer tub seal, Ring Band + 4 legs completely support mechanism so all 4 panels are removeable, Sediment tube patented

GE

2,723,737-11/21/50 - Hammell et al- Hotpoint machine, improved FD relates to McCarty patent

Gambles-Skogmo

2,746,569- 11/28/51- Castner – Beam snubber-  w/spring & bolt compression, most current design

Gambles- Skogmo

2,746,568- 3/29/52 – Foster – alternate Beam 3 disk snubber

Gambles-Skogmo

2,828,633- 1/17/55 Castner- variation of clutch control to allow use of smaller solenoids.



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