Thread Number: 5415
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Post# 115477   3/15/2006 at 22:56 (6,588 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California)        

sudsmaster's profile picture
Picking up this Superba Classic 21 this weekend:






Post# 115480 , Reply# 1   3/15/2006 at 22:58 (6,588 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California)        

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Interior

Post# 115481 , Reply# 2   3/15/2006 at 22:59 (6,588 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California)        

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Door

Post# 115482 , Reply# 3   3/15/2006 at 23:00 (6,588 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California)        

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Any of your dishwasher gurus want to list the difference between this machine and the 17A Custom?

Post# 115483 , Reply# 4   3/15/2006 at 23:00 (6,588 days old) by tlee618 ()        

Now that's one beautiful machine!! Congratulations on a great find! Terry

Post# 115484 , Reply# 5   3/15/2006 at 23:00 (6,588 days old) by appnut (TX)        

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Rich, Glenn's old one looks just like that.

Post# 115489 , Reply# 6   3/15/2006 at 23:41 (6,588 days old) by dadoes (TX, U.S. of A.)        

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Bob, is mine a 22? I think it's a 22. It looks virtually the same, but I think where Rich's has the wider space between the 3rd and 4th button, mine are spaced equally. Or maybe there's one more button. I'm trying to recall the buttons: Soak-n-Scrub, Normal, Light, Quick/Glass, Rinse/Hold, Dry Heat Off, Sani Rinse, Cancel. Yes, eight buttons. Not necessarily in that order. Rich's has seven.

Rich, your Custom 17 and this Superba 22 are quite different.

The Superba has a wash arm under both racks, adjustable pins in the upper rack, upper rack raises/tilts, lower rack has (I think) a removeable section (mine does), silverware basket is different, includes a rinse agent dispenser, has a water heating element in the sump, has a hidden rapid-advance timer, lower wattage drying element. And of course, more cycle selections. The Custom has only Full Cycle and Rinse/Hold, plus no-heat dry option.

The Custom Full Cycle (assuming it's the same as the Imperial 17A) begins with a half-fill line purge and drain. Then wash, rinse, wash, rinse, rinse, dry.

I can't say about the Superba 21, but my 22 doesn't do a purge because of the automatic water heating. Normal always heats the first wash to 140°F. It doesn't do double rinses. Wash, rinse, wash, rinse, dry. There's a 10- to 15-second fill with 1 minute recirculate before both rinses (I think before both, I know before the last) on Normal and Soak-n-Scrub. Light purges only before the final rinse, and doesn't heat the first wash. Soak-n-Scrub is wash, wash, rinse, wash, rinse, dry. It recirculates during the first fill, then pauses to heat to 140°F. Sprays for 1 minute, then pauses to reheat. Sprays for 1 minute, then drains. Refills, reheats to 140°F, wash. The rest same as Normal. Quick/Glass is fun. Begins with a prerinse, but only circulates while filling, then immediately drains. Main wash. Final rinse (no pump purge before). Dry is shortened.

Note that if your machine has the Soak-n-Scrub cycle with two leading washes ... the detergent dispenser has two covered compartments, and the dose for the first wash is simply placed in the depression between the two cups when they're closed. It immediately dumps to the bottom of the tub when the door is closed.


Post# 115494 , Reply# 7   3/15/2006 at 23:56 (6,588 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California)        

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Thanks.

I forgot to mention: this unit has "Suretemp" heating and "Whisper Quiet".

Does that change anything?


Post# 115495 , Reply# 8   3/15/2006 at 23:57 (6,588 days old) by gansky1 (Omaha, The Home of the TV Dinner!)        

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Another nice KA find! It will be interesting to see which machine you like more.

Post# 115500 , Reply# 9   3/16/2006 at 00:23 (6,588 days old) by dadoes (TX, U.S. of A.)        

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SureTemp refers to the automatic 140°F water heating. WhisperQuiet is marketing for the sound insulation.

Post# 115506 , Reply# 10   3/16/2006 at 01:51 (6,588 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California)        

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Thanks, Glenn.

I asked because in another thread I recall reading that the "Suretemp" only acted in the first wash. But perhaps that was a different model (not 21)?


Post# 115507 , Reply# 11   3/16/2006 at 01:53 (6,588 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California)        

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PS- Also curious - in the model hierarchy, is the order, from top of the line to bottom of the line, "Superba", "Imperial", "Custom"?

Or is Imperial higher up than Superba?


Post# 115523 , Reply# 12   3/16/2006 at 06:59 (6,588 days old) by appnut (TX)        

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Superba is the highest, then Imperial, then Custom.

Post# 115527 , Reply# 13   3/16/2006 at 07:09 (6,588 days old) by toggleswitch (New York City, NY)        

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Congrats; what a great machine!

When did WP buy the brand-name?

When did WP start corrupting these with a reversing motor to drain the tub?

When did the forced air-drying and the *push-it-out-the-seam between-the-doors* vent stop?


Post# 115528 , Reply# 14   3/16/2006 at 07:10 (6,588 days old) by toggleswitch (New York City, NY)        

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Has anyone else noticed that ceramic counter-tops seem to be *de rigeur* in California?

Post# 115529 , Reply# 15   3/16/2006 at 07:13 (6,588 days old) by filterflo (Chicago Area)        

In 1979 Kitchenaid also had a "Patrician" model, KDP-19.

Post# 115542 , Reply# 16   3/16/2006 at 08:40 (6,587 days old) by parunner58 (Davenport, FL)        

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It makes me want to cry. I had that same machine when we remodeld our kitchen in 1997. I really miss it. It was working perfectly and when we re-built it into the new cabinets and counters, the motor burned up. I think some saw dust may have gotten into the motor. I did not know of this site or I think we would have had it repaired and not replaced. It could wash anything we put in it, no matter how baked on and was relativly quiet. I wish you luck with it. We are now shopping for a new replacement for the now broken new one

Post# 115550 , Reply# 17   3/16/2006 at 09:35 (6,587 days old) by deeptub (Carbondale, IL)        
Reversing motor

deeptub's profile picture
Actually Hobart switched to a reversing motor on the KD-20A models in like 1982-83, which introduced the "triple filtration" system that continued on the KD-21 and KD-22 models. They had another job for the drain impeller while the machine was in "wash" mode, namely to pump water UP through the "soil collection" chamber/microfilter. This necessitated a reversing motor.

I'm pretty sure that WP acquired KA in 1986, and I don't believe it was just the brand, but the assets of Hobart's KA division as well. KitchenAid appliances carried on as usual for a number of years. The WhisperQuiet insulation and the later DURAKOTE nylon coated racks both came along under WP ownership. The KD-23 series used a modified version of WPs PowerClean module, which was a fine pump/filter. The KD-24 (of 1996 or 1997) was the first model that was essentially entirely a Whirlpool machine, albeit with a stainless tub/door liner. Then came the KD-25 that was a modification of the 24--mainly, it added a soil sensor in the higher models. Then came the KD-01, the tall tubs that people either love or loathe. The present KD-02 carries on the love-loathe feelings.

KitchenAid's built-in cooking appliances, which came along when Hobart acquired Chambers in I think the 1970s, continued as essentially Chambers units until the late 1990s when the ovens began to share WPs design (basic design, mind you, the KAs are generally a good bit fancier than the WPs). In 1989, Whirlpool seems to have sold the KA disposer design to Viking, and KA disposers are now made by Emerson. Somewhere in the 1990s WP sold the 18" KA compactor design to Viking, too. Now the only available KA compactor is a 15" of WP origin.

Wow that ended up being a lot more chatty than I had planned.
T.


Post# 115552 , Reply# 18   3/16/2006 at 09:50 (6,587 days old) by deeptub (Carbondale, IL)        
KUDS21 vs KUDS22

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The Superba Classic that Rich is picking up has buttons (left to right) Soak & Scrub Pots/Pans, Normal, Light/China, Rinse Hold, Sani Rinse, Energy Saver No Heat Dry, and Cancel.

And for the record, the indicator lights on both models are (left to right) Heating Water, Wash, Rinse, Dry, Rinsed Only. The Rinsed Only light, which first appeared on the KDS-17, illuminates when the door is unlocked after a Rinse Hold cycle.

The 22-Series Superba added a Quick/Glass button between Light/China and Rinse Hold.

The 22-Series Quick/Glass is actually more like the 21-Series Light/China, which is three fills (not counting pump purges), Rinse/Wash/Rinse/Dry, with shorter cycle segments via the rapid advance motor. The 22 Series Light/China has 4 fills like the Normal cycle (Wash/Rinse/Wash/Rinse/Dry), but also with shorter cycle segments via the rapid advance motor.

My parents have a KUDS21 that they've had since 1988. It's a lovely machine. Theirs is a Superba Monterey. On the 21 series, a Classic had a dark brown control panel with a woodgrain horizontal strip, and the Monterey had a gloss black control panel with a dark gray strip. Oh yeah, and a Superba Selectra had a black control panel with electronic touch controls.

Did I leave anything out? Lord, don't get me started talking about KitchenAids.

T.



Post# 115589 , Reply# 19   3/16/2006 at 13:52 (6,587 days old) by bobbyderegis (Boston)        

Suds, I have the identical machine! And it rocks!!! An old lady had it installed in her house, but being alone, she never used it. She died several years later and the house was sold. The new folks updated the kitchen, put the appliances on the front lawn to sell. I happened to be driving by, saw it, almost hit a tree, and carted it off for $50. Best 50 bucks I ever spent. I'll never part with this model: or my KDS 20. Hopefully the sumps will hold up. They tend to rust thru after so many years. Lots of luck with yours!
Bobby in Boston


Post# 115679 , Reply# 20   3/16/2006 at 19:43 (6,587 days old) by appnut (TX)        

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Tom, keep talkin' about KitchenAid. Deep subject :-)

Post# 115684 , Reply# 21   3/16/2006 at 19:47 (6,587 days old) by fnelson487 (Palm Springs, CA)        

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I had that exact machine!! My favorite next to the KDS-17. I believe that Hobart had perfected the two wash arm machine by then. It was then purchased by WP.

Post# 115703 , Reply# 22   3/16/2006 at 20:33 (6,587 days old) by dadoes (TX, U.S. of A.)        

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sudsmaster said: I asked because in another thread I recall reading that the "Suretemp" only acted in the first wash. But perhaps that was a different model (not 21)?

My 22 only heats the first wash (or the first two washes for Soak-n-Scrub). And the final rinse if Sani is selected (but it isn't a thermostatic hold, whereas wash heating is.) There's no heating pause for the main wash on any cycle. Interesting that on the Light cycle the timer still goes through the water heating increment but it only lasts for the duration since the thermostat circuit isn't involved. There's no pump circulation, and the 'sizzle' of the heating element can be faintly heard. The bi-metal detergent dispenser is apparently wired through the element circuit, there's a snap toward the end of the pause when it opens. The snap also serves as a signal during an actual heating period that wash is about to begin.

The Heating Water light comes on during the first increment of the main wash (after fill is complete), which is also when the main wash dispenser cup opens.


Post# 115724 , Reply# 23   3/16/2006 at 21:19 (6,587 days old) by gadgetgary (Bristol,CT)        
KA 1986-87

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Glen,

Back in 1986 or 1987 I purchased a KA Superba. I don't know the series, but is was no comparison to the KA that it replaced(the Superba with the black energy saver button to the side and with the rack that loaded the plates in the middle). Anyway, that 1986-87 DW did such a poor job, that I sent it back to KA(they came and picked it up). I replaced it with a GE2800 which was perfect(and which I aquired another from Ebay last year and love it!). I also love my KA Superba 22 series that I purchased in 1992 and is presently in my kitchen.
Thanks for your insight.

Gary


Post# 115778 , Reply# 24   3/16/2006 at 23:18 (6,587 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California)        

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"Has anyone else noticed that ceramic counter-tops seem to be *de rigeur* in California? "

Oh, they had their heyday about 30 years ago here. My kitchen, which was remodeled in the '70's (I think!) has almost identical white tile with big black grout. It's actually pretty good tile, and the grout is like it's epoxied or sealed or something - the tile gives out before the grout does. From what I've seen while replacing the drop-in cooktop in my kitchen, it's also very well built - the tile rests on a cement slab that's at least 1 inch thick. One of my neighbors in a condo complex built in the 70's also has very similar tiled countertops.

"De riguer" for countertops in California now is granite slab counter-tops, or maybe Corian or other synthetic stone surfacing. Has been that way for a while now. Don't know if I'd like granite for a counter, though. Stains and scratches too easily. But it can be beautiful.


Post# 115780 , Reply# 25   3/16/2006 at 23:25 (6,587 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California)        

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Thanks to all for the wonderful information about the KA/Hobart dishwasher series.

I'm set to pick the Superba 21 this weekend. It's getting kind of exciting :-)


Post# 115851 , Reply# 26   3/17/2006 at 09:34 (6,586 days old) by deeptub (Carbondale, IL)        

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Well since Bob says to keep talking and since I failed to address this one:

"When did the forced air-drying and the *push-it-out-the-seam between-the-doors* vent stop?"

Forced air drying last appeared on the KD-23 series. The KD-24 just used the heating element just like a WP, with the vent at the top of the door. The KA models did have a wax motor operated damper on the vent so it opened only during drying. I think this is common practice among mid-high end machines now.

Whirlpool did cheapen lesser model KAs shortly after their takeover. KAs historically have had a completely submerged water heater in the bottom of the sump, and a drying heater outside the tub in the fan duct. When KA came out with water heating for washes, even the BOL Custom had a heater in the sump. After the WP acquisition, they switched to a low-wattage water/dry heater that was up out of the sump (like most machines have) on the Imperial 21 and Custom 21 models. This allowed them to switch to a plastic drying fan housing.

Incidentally, the 21 series was the last to have Imperial and Custom designations on their control panels, though the "I" and "C" continued in the model numbers. Superba carried on through some of the 01 series.

And of course Hobart wasn't perfect. The KD-19 "Energy Saver IV" machines were generally loathed by all. They heated multiple segments of the wash and the final rinse to 155 degrees. "Now every cycle is a Sani Cycle" they touted. Then, because of the higher rinse temp, they felt heat was not needing for drying, so there was just a blower (using the plastic blower parts that WP later used to cheapen the lesser 21s) that pulsed on and off through a really long dry period. They were an overreaction to the energy crises electricity-wise, but were still water hogs, they took forever to run, and there was no way to deselect any of this water heating. They were quickly (two years I think) replaced by the fine KD-20 models which reintroduced heated drying, had one water heating period (two in the Soak and Scrub cycle), and used significantly less water.

I'm finished now.
T.


Post# 116053 , Reply# 27   3/18/2006 at 15:15 (6,585 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California)        

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Well, I just picked up the Superba 21. The exterior is in pretty good shape, although the control panel has a small chunk of the thin brown plastic laminate missing from the lower left hand corner, and it looks like the aluminum underneath has oxidized, forming a white powder.

The interior tub is in great shape. But the racks are not in top condition. The lower one is missing a wheel, and the upper one has broken tines, and, more seriously, a broken left hand support. But it's all fixable.

The insulation is interesting. It's a kind of thick organic felt (about 3/8" thick) covered by thick reflective foil. It's all in great shape, and I lucked out because after weeks of rain today is bright and sunny, so the insulation didn't get wet on the trip home (40 miles each way).

This one does have a heating element in the sump, and a metal heater/blower underneath the rear rh corner. The frame is not as robust as that on the 17A, in my opinion. I think it could be easy to retrofit the 17A to be a portable, but not so sure about the 21.

The filter is in good shape, but the very fine plastic mesh screen at the top is all torn up, mostly missing. I figure I could probably renew it with either fine stainless or even no-see-um netting. Stainless would probably be better.

Comparatively speaking, I prefer the construction on the 17A. It's simpler and seems stronger, with fewer parts to fail. The one big drawback of the 17A is the lack of an internal water heater... but that may be just my opinion. Where I'm planning on putting the washer is close to a kitchen sink, and relatively close to the water heater, so I think it could get a fully hot wash charge at the start. Except I lowered my water heater temp to 120F in order to save gas this winter (rebate from utility company expected).

My inclination is to install the 17A in the patio kitchen, once I get the cabinetry, plumbing, and electrical sufficiently modified. Or... I could turn it into a portable, in which case it would be ready for action probably fairly quickly. Always nice to have options.

Anyway, I'm going to take a nap. It feels like my cold isn't completely gone yet.


Post# 116487 , Reply# 28   3/20/2006 at 09:24 (6,583 days old) by deeptub (Carbondale, IL)        

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Hi, Suds.
Congrats on the Superba 21. The machine will run *ok* with the torn mesh, but it will perform its best if you repair it--especially considering that the machine has one rinse.
The mesh on the 21 series did degrade and tear with time. The 22 series had a much much finer and more durable mesh, and that pump top is the replacement for the 21 series as well. If I were you, I would consider replacing the pump top. It's a little pricey, but it will give you the best performance possible.
See link below.

T.


CLICK HERE TO GO TO deeptub's LINK


Post# 116590 , Reply# 29   3/20/2006 at 18:26 (6,583 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California)        

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Thanks, Deeptub.

I am less than fully enthusiastic about this particular unit because it looks to me like it's been thrashed. The racks are basically toast. The upper spray arm doesn't rotate freely in its little cage, it rubs on the bottom. The upper rack has broken off the attachmed to the height adjuster on the left, and there are numerous prongs missing. The sump looks ok, no rust there, but the door looks a bit sprung - it seems to hang lower than it should when fully open. I'm thinking this DW saw some very hard use, maybe abuse. I'm thinking "rental", lol.

It will take some work/effort/$$$ to get it going again, and I'm really thinking that for my purposes (occasional use in patio kitchen) the 17A will be a better choice. Either way, I've pretty much settled on where it's going to go. I'm going to build a little counter for it beside the main countertop; all I have to do is to move the fridge over a couple of feet. I'll put some sort of countertop material on top, so it can be used as extra counter space.

Here's where it will go:



Post# 116612 , Reply# 30   3/20/2006 at 20:48 (6,583 days old) by veg-o-matic (Baltimore, Hon!)        

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Now ain't that purty! Love the cornice over the sink.

veg


Post# 117613 , Reply# 31   3/25/2006 at 15:58 (6,578 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands)        

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Very pretty indeed!

Post# 117621 , Reply# 32   3/25/2006 at 16:26 (6,578 days old) by gansky1 (Omaha, The Home of the TV Dinner!)        

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I love the "patio kitchen" - I'm surprised you don't already have a dishwasher out there already! That Compact 30 is very nice as well. The KDC-17 will be perfect for a second dishwasher - you can even remove the top rack for very large items.

Post# 117655 , Reply# 33   3/25/2006 at 19:23 (6,578 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California)        

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Thanks for the compiments. The cornice over the sink conceals a recessed light fixture. It has a compact flourescent bulb in it now, of course. The mirror over the sink does a nice job of creating the illusion of a window, except of course for one's own reflection in it. Oddly, I rarely notice the self-reflection in it. Just above the cornice is a pink plastic PeeWee Herman lunchbox, complete with wide-mouth plastic Thermos bottle.

The Compact 30 is a very well made thick flat coil GM Frigidaire electric range. It's in good shape, but the clock tower has a cracked plastic bezel and the clock doesn't work any more, and the left front big burner doesn't heat below the high setting (not a coil issue, probably a control issue). I'm planning on replacing the electric range with an 80's vintage black Modern Maid drop-in gas range I have waiting in storage. The wait part involves extending the gas line under the house out to this location. But the last time I had gas line work done, I had the plumber install a "T" on the line nearest that location, so it would be easier to run something out there. The biggest challenge will be to figure out where to put the gas line shut-off valve for the range. It might have to go under the sink.


Post# 118090 , Reply# 34   3/27/2006 at 19:11 (6,576 days old) by brent-aucoin ()        

Hello all,
Thanks to Ralph on his post of a Kitchen Aid on Craigs list, I decided to call and find out about it. It was located in Norcross Georgia, about 20 miles north of me.
Well, when I get there, the guy has two. One is an Imperial in Yellow, and the other is a Supurba in Black.
I bought the Supruba, and talked him down to $25. It is in good shape. It was actually taken out of his house.
It is a KDS-18. Tell me some info on this one.
Can anyone tell me what year this was from? I ran it in the garage at my house, and was happy with how quiet it was.
All in all, I just can't wait to replace the Maytag "Quiet Series 300" that I have. It is the three rack thing. It just takes way to long to wash! Does a good job, and is quiet, but takes way to long. I think the "quick wash" is 70 minutes.
Also, I want to change the color of the Supurba to White. Awhile back I was somewhere, and I saw very thin metal that was painted in different colors, that you could cut to your needs. I remember thinking that this would be perfect to change colors of dishwashers and such. I don't remember where this was at. Have you all ever ran into this stuff? And if so, remind me where it is?
I love Dishwasher talk, and am so glad that I found this one.
Kind of thinking about going back and getting the Imperial just to save it.
Thanks all
Brent


Post# 118285 , Reply# 35   3/28/2006 at 11:43 (6,575 days old) by bobbyderegis (Boston)        

Does anyone have any info on Hobart disposers? For years they were sold under the KA name, then WP decided to use ISE disposers under the KA name. (Don't get me going on WP!) Viking was selling the Hobart disposers but they have since stopped. Are they just NLA or did another company pick them up? I loved my '86 KA Superba disposer and would love to find another!
Bobby in Boston


Post# 118289 , Reply# 36   3/28/2006 at 12:44 (6,575 days old) by deeptub (Carbondale, IL)        

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Bobby, I noticed that Viking seems to have ISE disposers now. However, they still have the Wham-Jam/Jaminator buttons and fixed cutters on the flywheels. I wonder if they are still essentially the KA design but they've switched to the ISE-style mounting (possibly for cost cutting) or maybe they've contracted with ISE to make a disposer to their specs? Because, apart from the mounting change, the specs still sound like a KA.

Hmmm...

T.


Post# 118290 , Reply# 37   3/28/2006 at 12:45 (6,575 days old) by agiflow ()        
(Don't get me going on WP!)

Why,..what's the beef with Whirlpool?

Post# 118303 , Reply# 38   3/28/2006 at 13:20 (6,575 days old) by deeptub (Carbondale, IL)        

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Brent, your KDS-18 is from approx. 1976-1979 and was the first KitchenAid model with a washarm below the upper rack. Unfortunately, they made that washarm rather small, and it doesn't wash things in the corners of the rack very well--if at all. They rectified this on the KDS-19 with a full-size arm that was essentially the width of the rack. Your machine may have already been updated with a newer rack. If not, you'll want to do that. In fact, the yellow Imperial might be a possible source of that rack, depending on what model it is. If you can't find one, I *MIGHT* have all the parts to convert your present rack.

KA made many other changes in the switch from the 17 to 18 series. They redesigned the pump to have a lower profile (so the tub could be taller), they switched to a drain valve that was less likely to jam open, they redesigned the door hinges to be sturdier, moved the door seal from the door to the jamb, etc. It was also the first Superba to have its timer behind the control panel rather than in the motor compartment.

Your Superba has a long Soak & Scrub cycle which does an excellent job on impossibly dirty pans with today's enzyme detergents--mine is always impressing me with things I was sure it wouldn't get clean. It uses a triple-fill of detergent--you fill and close both dispensers and then put about 2 tablespoons of detergent in the indentation that closing the covers reveals. It is 104 minutes long (all cycle times are estimates--I haven't looked at the manual in awhile).

The Normal Wash cycle is 68 minutes and consists of 2 partial-fill prerinses, a prewash, a main wash, and three rinses--the last being a partial fill. (The two partial fill prerinses are "fast forwarded" variations of the soak & scrub segments of the soak & scrub cycle, courtesy of the rapid advance timer.)

The Sani Cycle is the same as the Normal Wash cycle, but the final partial-fill rinse is heated to 180 degrees. The pump stops and the SANI light comes on while the water heats. It's length is the same time as Normal plus however long it takes to heat the water.

Rinse Hold is a single rinse plus a lot of timer rapid-advancing.

Short Wash is (I think) 37 minutes, and consists of a prerinse, a shortened main wash, and two final rinses (the last a partial fill). There is much rapid-advancing through various parts of this cycle. You only fill and close the Main Wash dispenser for this cycle.

Plate Warm is a lot of rapid advancing to the dry portion of the cycle, for warming plates.

It's important to have your water heater set rather hot--I have mine at 135, and it seems to work very well. The water heating element is energized at half-power (700W) during many parts of the cycles (soaks, main wash, etc) to maintain water temp, but it is not thermostatically controlled.

If you take the front panel off the door, there should be a schematic wiring diagram that also has a cycle chart. It's one of the most complex I've seen.

I think that's all there is to know about this machine. Someone else please fill in any gaps in my knowledge!

T.


Post# 118366 , Reply# 39   3/28/2006 at 18:39 (6,575 days old) by brent-aucoin ()        

Thank you so much for sharing all of your knowledge to this model! Your description about all of the cycles makes me very excited to use it.
I can't wait to get it going and hook it up as my main dishwasher.
I looked at the upper spray arm, and it is the smaller one.
I am thinking about calling the guy that sold me this one, and picking up the Imperial just to have, and use for parts if ever need be.
Brent


Post# 118369 , Reply# 40   3/28/2006 at 18:57 (6,575 days old) by filterflo (Chicago Area)        

Hey Brent, I might have the owners manual for your dishwasher if you want it. Is it a KDS-18? Let me know and I will look thru my stash.........

Post# 118371 , Reply# 41   3/28/2006 at 19:00 (6,575 days old) by appnut (TX)        

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Brent that would be a very good move.

Tom, I just love to listen when you talk!!!!!


Post# 118377 , Reply# 42   3/28/2006 at 19:16 (6,575 days old) by brent-aucoin ()        

Jimmy,
Thanks so much for looking for me on the manual.
Yes it is a KDS-18.
Am I dreaming, or did you find a KDS-18 when I was there at your home a few years back? I know that you picked a KA, but was not clear if it was a KDS-18.
I just thought that I read a post that talked about you using changing your DW to a KitchenAid in your kitchen.
If you did, did you change the color of it? I know you love your turquoise, and it looked so great in your kitchen. If you did change the color, how easy was it. I just want it to be white. It is black as of now. Do share your trick.
Also, does your Kitchenaid have the smaller upper wash arm? What are you thoughts about it.
I am so excited about using a Kitchenaid of this vintage again. Never thought that I would find one. Usually here, everyone holds onto their Kitchenaids.
Bob, I agree with you, I can't wait to change out the Maytag for this one!
Thanks all for you info and interest!
Brent


Post# 118384 , Reply# 43   3/28/2006 at 19:33 (6,575 days old) by filterflo (Chicago Area)        

Yes Brent, I got a KDS-18 that Myra gave me. It was a working dishwasher, but barely. I rebuilt the pump, replaced the wash arm, arm support, and finally the timer, so at this point its almost a brand new machine. I had aquired it to replace the 1953 GE Roll Out dishwasher that I had. I loved that too, but man the difference in performance....well there is no comparision. The KDS-18 was originally white, but I painted it aqua. I went to ACE Hardware and got a can of aqua spray enamel and a can of grey primer. The first thing to remember when painting is to always prep the surface well. SAND it before, make sure its clean. I removed the panels to sand and paint them.
I laid them flat, on top of a couple of old paint cans. This is very important! You wont get any runs if the panels are laying FLAT and if you give several coats of light spray. I was quite pleased with the outcome.........Judge for yourself! I love this dishwasher and yes it does have the smaller wash arm, but in all honesty, it performs very well. I have had several of these thru the years in different houses that I have lived in, and its just about my favorite dishwasher.


Post# 118385 , Reply# 44   3/28/2006 at 19:34 (6,575 days old) by filterflo (Chicago Area)        

KDS-18 Buttons,,,,,

Post# 118386 , Reply# 45   3/28/2006 at 19:35 (6,575 days old) by filterflo (Chicago Area)        

Cycle Lights.........

Post# 118387 , Reply# 46   3/28/2006 at 19:35 (6,575 days old) by filterflo (Chicago Area)        

Rinsed Only.........love this light and feature!

Post# 118389 , Reply# 47   3/28/2006 at 19:36 (6,575 days old) by filterflo (Chicago Area)        

Racks........

Post# 118393 , Reply# 48   3/28/2006 at 19:44 (6,575 days old) by brent-aucoin ()        

Jimmy,
Your dishwasher looks so great! I am getting so excited!
So funny about the smaller wash arm. For many, many years most of the KitchenAids that I had were the models with just the lower arm. It always did a super job. So I am not all that worried about the smaller wash arm.
I was somewhere awhile back, and there were these very thin sheets of metal that were painted in different colors. They were cut to your needs. I remember thinking that this would be great for dishwasher fronts. Can't remember where in the world this was at.
Have you ever seen these out and about?
Thanks so much for the pictures Jimmy!
I just love your kitchen!
Brent


Post# 118421 , Reply# 49   3/28/2006 at 21:52 (6,575 days old) by gadgetgary (Bristol,CT)        
KA

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I had bought this dishwasher in 1978 in avocado greeen..a portable. Wish I had it now. Didn't this dw have the upper 'shower tower' too? Why was this eliminated?

Post# 118431 , Reply# 50   3/28/2006 at 22:26 (6,575 days old) by cvillewasherbo ()        
Racking

When did KA change the racking so that dinner plates were placed front to back on the left hand side. It looks like filterflo's still has the center area for racking dinner plates. I always liked that arrangement the best. I loved the KA ads in magazines that showed them fully loaded and everything was perfectly placed. I've also always loved the silverware in the front as it was so easy to just open the door a little bit and drop in a fork or two.


Post# 118434 , Reply# 51   3/28/2006 at 22:43 (6,575 days old) by mrcleanjeans (milwaukee wi)        
not so constant rinse

the overhead constant rinse was renamed constant wash-rinse on the 18 series and was eliminated on the dreaded 19 series,perhaps because people often knocked it off accidently, also the 18 series was the 1st to have the side plate arrangement,though Gary still put things down the middle anyway.Great machine Gary as long as you leave the corners of the lower rack free so the 4-way HydroSweep can get those upper rack corners,since the upper level power wash arm did not extend to the sides far enough.In that one respect only,the 19 was an improvement with its wide upper arm.

Post# 118436 , Reply# 52   3/28/2006 at 23:00 (6,575 days old) by appnut (TX)        

appnut's profile picture
The rack was dedesigned when KA came out with the 18 series about 1974 or so that had a wash arm under the top rack. Personally, I felt the plates down the center was a bid deceiving. I cannot tell you how many loads I've seen run in those older raqcks with mostly dinner plates and not much else. The darn thing looked full when it really wasn't. What a waste. At least with the plates going down the left side back to front, the right side allowed for not onlhy smaller plates but also pots, pans, and bowls.

Post# 118438 , Reply# 53   3/28/2006 at 23:08 (6,575 days old) by mrcleanjeans (milwaukee wi)        
get a load of this

Bob,you're right.But the 18 came out in 1976,called the new load-as-you like series.

Post# 118451 , Reply# 54   3/29/2006 at 00:30 (6,575 days old) by bigal ()        
Parts Availability

Hi. I just picked up a mint condition KDS-17A today. It's in great shape...it was in house where it was barely used! Does anyone know of a source for door panels? This one has avacado green panels in mint condition! I am looking for stainless steel (which was on my mom's KDI-17). Any leads would be appreciated. I am willing to trade the avacado panels if someone has stainless steel ones in good shape...i'll even pay the shipping. Thanks for any leads!

Oh, the Aqua KDS-18 is very nice! Have fun!



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