Thread Number: 54417
New Whirlpool Dishwashers (just a little update)
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Post# 767924   7/4/2014 at 13:25 (3,555 days old) by logixx (Germany)        

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Mentioned in the New Whirlpool Cario thread, this new spray arm will be featured on Whirlpool and Kenmore dishwashers. Not sure... I have seen a picture of the base of the tub without the arm in place and it looked like there was a gear in there. Might be that the spray arm changes direction (WP has a patent on this) and the Kenmore 360° Wash Arm is driven by a motor already, I think. The nozzles do remind me of a shower head.

Also, the KitchenAid KDTM354DSS has this "filter". It's supposed to be self-cleaning, as the manual mentions nothing about cleaning a filter:

Ultra-Fine Filter
Breakthrough technology continuously removed food particles from the wash water. The result is clean wash water for excellent performance: 18% shorter cycles and 35% less water use on heavy soils. Plus, there's no need to ever remove and clean the filter.

 

Link to manual: www.kitchenaid.com/digitalassets/...


  Photos...       <              >      Photo 1 of 4         View Full Size



Post# 768084 , Reply# 1   7/4/2014 at 23:02 (3,554 days old) by murando531 (Augusta, Georgia - US)        

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This may be a silly question, as it seems nowadays it's rare that a new design actually makes sense, but why is water not coming out of all the holes in that picture?

Post# 768093 , Reply# 2   7/4/2014 at 23:48 (3,554 days old) by A440 ()        

It is wild that they would use a photo that shows several holes of the wash are without water coming out of them.
I must say the spray looks anemic!
B


Post# 768109 , Reply# 3   7/5/2014 at 03:25 (3,554 days old) by tolivac (greenville nc)        

I have seen LAWN SPRINKLERS that give better water spray than that dishwasher sprayer arm!Thats the spray action you get with those tiny "phono motor" pumps!!!Put a REAL pump behind that spray arm and we might get somewhere-but the pressure just may shatter the plastic arm!Don't waste your time or money on new dishwashers if this is what you get!Get a vintage machine from a swap shop and fix it up instead!

Post# 768137 , Reply# 4   7/5/2014 at 08:15 (3,554 days old) by logixx (Germany)        

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I was wondering about not all jets spraying as well. Maybe this has to do with potential reversing of the arm. Have 50% of the jets spray one way, and the other 50% when it reverses. Theoretically, this gives more coverage but won't increase the water usage. Google Patents shows up a bunch of documents from various manufacturers regarding spray arms.
 
Here's a recent one that relates to a spray arm:
 
Dishwasher with spray system

And this one must be for the self-cleaning filter. It scrapes itself clean - much like the Fisher&Paykel dryer lint screen.

Rotating filter for a dishwashing machine



Post# 768138 , Reply# 5   7/5/2014 at 08:17 (3,554 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA)        
Reminds me...

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Of the maytag jet-clean spray arms.

Malcolm


Post# 768177 , Reply# 6   7/5/2014 at 12:52 (3,554 days old) by murando531 (Augusta, Georgia - US)        
Maytag JetClean spray arms

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Except that the JetClean had a real motor behind those small spray holes, and the material they used to mold the arms was much, much higher quality. I can go buy Dollar Tree toys made with better plastic than what companies are using in dishwashers now.

Post# 768215 , Reply# 7   7/5/2014 at 17:10 (3,554 days old) by cam2s (Nebraska)        

I believe the Maytag advertised that the JetWash system in the Reverse Racks had 54 jets, and of course a 1/3 hp motor that actually had some oomph. There used to be a video on you tube of somebody running a Reverse Rack open in their yard...it easily threw the water 20 or 30 feet out. I don't think that spray would even make it to the top of the tub.

Post# 768226 , Reply# 8   7/5/2014 at 17:42 (3,554 days old) by logixx (Germany)        
That's the one

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Post# 768294 , Reply# 9   7/6/2014 at 00:16 (3,553 days old) by A440 ()        

In defense of the Maytag reverse rack on the lawn....It also uses the closed door as a bounce back for rotating the wash arm.
These reverse racks...although it took time to get used to loading them for your lifestyle....you rarely were disappointed in the cleaning performance.
And the filter was never clogged! I have never seen one clogged.
B


Post# 768377 , Reply# 10   7/6/2014 at 10:11 (3,553 days old) by murando531 (Augusta, Georgia - US)        

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I think he meant that the new WP wouldn't reach the top, and from seeing them live, I can vouch that they barely do. I'd take the Maytag or a PowerClean anyway, and of course a Hobart. Open the door too quickly and you'll have a face full of water.

Post# 768401 , Reply# 11   7/6/2014 at 12:43 (3,553 days old) by mark_wpduet (Lexington KY)        
Is that the water level

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for a full fill? I mean, in the new Maytag I just bought, there's a good inch of water in the tub.

Post# 768471 , Reply# 12   7/6/2014 at 15:16 (3,553 days old) by nmassman44 (Brooksville Florida)        

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I was thinking the same thing too...that cant be a full water charge for this machine...there is barely any in the base area. Methinks it wcould be just for the pics but I do agree one would think that they would at least have water coming from all the jets to show coverage. I have noticed how small the jets are getting on dishwashers these days to cope with the anemic pumps. One thing I did notice while I was at Home Depot today is the Maytag dishwashers touting to have the most powerful motors on the market. Now I know that Viking puts a full half hp motor in their machines. And my Miele packs a whollop in the Pots and Pans and Intense cycles, so one has to wonder just how much water is the Maytag moving. Also the Maytag machine with the stainless steel uber sized middle wash arm is kinda overkill and its wobbly as well. Just my opinion, as usual .

Post# 768479 , Reply# 13   7/6/2014 at 15:36 (3,553 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA)        
Perhaps...

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They took the picture as it was filling and needed to get the door closed before the full water charge?

Malcolm


Post# 768494 , Reply# 14   7/6/2014 at 16:27 (3,553 days old) by logixx (Germany)        

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CR has a video where you can see the water level on a Kenmore:

 

www.consumerreports.org/cro/video...


Post# 770034 , Reply# 15   7/11/2014 at 17:01 (3,548 days old) by washerdude (Canada )        

Whirlpool has released a model WDT920SADM. Apprantly they call this the "Total Coverage Spray Arm" when water isint even flowing out of half the jets...


Post# 770052 , Reply# 16   7/11/2014 at 18:23 (3,548 days old) by kenmoreguy89 (Valenza Piemonte, Italy- Soon to be US immigrant.)        

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That wash arm with the blue things smells "crap" from miles away...IMO.....Looks like typical euro-junk style technology.
Would never get one unless donated....
The kitchenaid one and block seems alot better....


Post# 825418 , Reply# 17   5/27/2015 at 14:35 (3,228 days old) by murando531 (Augusta, Georgia - US)        
Current thoughts on WP's new machines?

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I'm never sure whether to start a new thread, or just continue one if it's about the same subject, but since adding a thread causes an old one to fall out, I suppose it's better not to potentially lose a good forum post.

With time passing since the new revisions to Whirlpool's current dishwashers, does anyone have any experience so far with them? And what thoughts might you have on them now that they've been around for a little while?

The bug is catching me (I blame the Bravos XL after it converted me from anti-new/anti-HE to now wanting everything to be as efficient as possible). I have this urge to try new things and be "up-to-speed" on new technology, and somehow the new Whirly's are slowly grabbing my interest. I know that it goes against everything I feel about how a machine should be built, much like everyone else here; ie. weak pump/motor, alternating arms, long cycles, manual filter, etc., and yet somehow after a lot of reading and research on them, they're growing on me.

And here's my reasoning for such a change in heart lately: It seems that WP has done some improving to this design, much like they did to the Voyager design, and the PowerClean before it. When those designs first arrived, there were complaints left and right, but down the road they became excellent machines. That said, from what I can tell, the filter has been slightly modified, with arch shaped cutouts along the bottom, I assume to allow better removal of soils during the drains, but also because there is a slightly larger motor being shown on some of their higher-end models. I can't tell for sure about the motor or what type/power rating it is, but it looks almost the size of the one being used in the current Maytags.

Could it be that WP finally figured out that the tiny magnetic induction pumps couldn't cut it and they are using the more powerful, possibly variable speed, motor from the MT?

I'm a bit conflicted. I love my PowerClean but it also is a bit dated, though it looks brand new. The new detergents are made for machines that have longer wash cycles, and unless I add options and run heavy cycles on the PC, the main wash is 14 minutes. On the other hand, my current Maytag is a Voyager design, which means a little less water but longer main washes, but I also DESPISE the top rack. I've been searching far and wide for a Voyager on Craigslist or appliance outlets with the same colored racks, but with the standard type, but so far my findings almost equal a new machine as far as pricing the parts that I would need to convert the current machine.

I only know of one person with one of the new "updated" machines, and while they could care less about how it works or what it is, they say that it does just fine for them loading it full of scraped but not prerinsed dishes. I took the filter out and it only had a few little kibbles that rinsed right off. They also have the "TotalCoverage" wash arm in theirs, which looks so cool. Honestly, the machines as a whole are gorgeous in looks. And I'm such a sucker for sleek and streamlined looking appliances...


Post# 825421 , Reply# 18   5/27/2015 at 15:18 (3,228 days old) by washerdude (Canada )        
Here is a kicker.

New kitchenaid dishwashers with the orbit spray arm and the new type of filter actually have a real motor.

CLICK HERE TO GO TO washerdude's LINK


Post# 825453 , Reply# 19   5/27/2015 at 19:36 (3,228 days old) by appnut (TX)        

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Washerdude took the words right out of my mouth.  The KAs do definitely have my attention with the new Clean Wash/Water filter system.  To me, it's like Whirlpool is BOL and Maytag and KA are tied for 2nd place. I'm a little hesitant about the Dynamic Wash Arms since it's driven by it's own motor and doesn't use water pressure to force it to revolve.   Anything with the KDTM means it has the new filter.  The KDTM354DSS and KDTM354ESS have the filter.  The KDTM404E is about as "fancy" as I'd want to get.  These 3 have all the features/options I want, don't need nuttin' mo.  And of the 3, the 404E is the only one that comes in anything other than SS. 


Post# 825463 , Reply# 20   5/27/2015 at 21:28 (3,227 days old) by jerrod6 (Southeastern Pennsylvania)        

Those motors.  Is the $10 isolator motor the one that runs the obit arms?  What about that other motor for $34.  Can this possibly be a water pump motor?  I mean I had a aquarium pump motor that was more robust than this-if this is a water pump.  It looks like a toy motor.  This just can't be.


Post# 825465 , Reply# 21   5/27/2015 at 21:42 (3,227 days old) by joeypete (Concord, NH)        

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i haven't tried a new WP dishwasher so I can't really comment on their design. My Frigidaire is a new design though, with the BladeSpray wash arm. It alternates wash arms (meaning doesn't operate all of them at the same time). It has some "filters", mostly a glass trap that I clean out monthly…or if I notice the dishes having some grit on them, which isn't often. The cycle times actually aren't bad. I don't pre rinse my dishes at all. I usually run it on Normal with heated wash and heated dry. Cycle times are typically 70-78 minutes. The Heavy wash runs about 2 hours if the load is very dirty. Not bad in my opinion. I can say though that it cleans very very well. I'm very happy with it. So I don't think all new machines are bad.

Post# 825470 , Reply# 22   5/27/2015 at 23:02 (3,227 days old) by peteski50 (New York)        

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Hi Joe I have a 14 yr old ge tall tub that runs about 80 mins for a normal cycle and cleans very well. 78 mins is great for a newer DW. If I need a new one I dont want one that runs 2 plus hours for normal wash. Some of the bosch models have a speed perfect option that cuts the cycle time by 25% and I think all DW's should have something like this.
I work at home depot and most customers dont like to hear about these long cycle times.
Thanks Peter


Post# 825502 , Reply# 23   5/28/2015 at 06:50 (3,227 days old) by joeypete (Concord, NH)        

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Hi Peter! Those older GE washers are pretty good!! I used one for over 10 years without any problems. It cleaned well too. I agree that the longer cycle times suck. I really didn't even think about that when I bought my current washer. I replaced an older Amana model which was noisier. I was lucky to pick one that didn't have really long times.

Post# 825508 , Reply# 24   5/28/2015 at 07:27 (3,227 days old) by mark_wpduet (Lexington KY)        
Good to hear

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that Whirlpool is using a bigger motor on some of their new models instead of that water fountain motor.......

My Maytag is less than a year old and the cycle times aren't (at least the cycle I use) Auto clean - is about the same length as my 2005 Whirlpool that died. I once used jet clean with steam and that ran over 4 hours and got hotter than hell.



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