|
Thread Number: 5453
surgilator and spiralator |
[Down to Last] |  |
| Post# 115957 3/17/2006 at 20:36 (6,606 days old) by brettsomers () | ||
|
so why did kenmore/whirlpool feature both agitator designs? what are the merits of each? did certain tubs get a certain agitator? was there a logic to what agitator when on what machine? thanks | ||
|
| Post# 115996 , Reply# 1 3/17/2006 at 23:29 (6,606 days old) by rickr (.) | ||
This is my guess... Fifty some years ago, Whirlpool had a huge contract with Sears to build most of their large appliances. (I think WP STILL makes most of the Sears brand large appliances) WP did not want to take sales away from the Kenmore line,but wanted to add to those sales. WP tried to "mask" the fact that the machines they were marketing were in reality the same machines Sears was selling. So the lids opened from the side on Kenmore,and from the front on WP. The tops and fronts of of the cabinets were changed slightly for either brand to make a difference of appearance. And of course the agitators had to be different also. In my opinion,the Roto-Swirl is gentle,in comparison to the Surgilator. The Surgilator will handle 7 pair of heavy jeans without a problem,and still turn them over well. The Super-Roto-Swirl cannot turn jeans as well,and has a bad habit of winding the leg of the jeans around the itself instead,which then stops all turnover. The Roto-Swirl is great for heavy towels and turns them over well without any sud lock problems. The Surgilator can also turn heavy towels over even better,however it will kick up so much suds that the machine suds locks every time. So either design was ok,but the Surgilator made for a much more aggressive washing machine. 
| ||
| Post# 116028 , Reply# 2 3/18/2006 at 07:34 (6,606 days old) by the7 () | ||
|
Which agitator is shown in the photo? | ||
| Post# 116041 , Reply# 4 3/18/2006 at 11:25 (6,606 days old) by mickeyd (Hamburg NY) | ||
Identify | ||
| Post# 116042 , Reply# 5 3/18/2006 at 11:27 (6,606 days old) by mickeyd (Hamburg NY) | ||
|
Duh! | ||
| Post# 116046 , Reply# 6 3/18/2006 at 13:17 (6,606 days old) by rickr (.) | ||
|
What is that?? | ||
Post# 116049 , Reply# 7 3/18/2006 at 14:12 (6,606 days old) by toggleswitch  (New York City, NY) |
||
 | ||
| Post# 116052 , Reply# 8 3/18/2006 at 15:00 (6,606 days old) by oldwasherguy (Ladson SC) | ||
beautiful | ||
|
Post# 116101 , Reply# 9 3/18/2006 at 21:35 (6,605 days old) by frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie) |
||
 | ||
|
Post# 116115 , Reply# 10 3/18/2006 at 22:40 (6,605 days old) by gansky1 (Omaha, The Home of the TV Dinner!) |
||
Nice torpedo Rick! | ||
| Post# 116132 , Reply# 12 3/19/2006 at 00:01 (6,605 days old) by brettsomers () | ||
|
how do yall think a roto-swirl would work in one of the modern machines? would they have to make it smaller due to the shredder strokes? | ||
| Post# 116203 , Reply# 13 3/19/2006 at 09:59 (6,605 days old) by geextrarinse (Hudson Valley, New York ) | ||
I Agree! | ||
| Post# 116214 , Reply# 14 3/19/2006 at 11:05 (6,605 days old) by rickr (.) | ||
|
| ||
|
Post# 116284 , Reply# 15 3/19/2006 at 16:10 (6,605 days old) by frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie) |
||
|
| ||
| Post# 116498 , Reply# 16 3/20/2006 at 10:13 (6,604 days old) by rickr (.) | ||
|
| ||
|
Post# 116518 , Reply# 17 3/20/2006 at 13:15 (6,604 days old) by unimatic1140 (Minneapolis) |
||
You guys, you don't need anyone to send you a picture, all visible pictures on this site are unlocked. Simply go to the picture you want to save and bring you mouse over it. Right Click and select Save Picture As... As for suds-locks, 1950's Whirlpool and Kenmore washers all suds-lock with towels or very absorbent items no matter what the agitator, they did get a little bit better in the 1960's but still had some suds lock issues. As for suds-locking a Unimatic that is working properly, in my eight years of using them I have never ever been able to do it, not once and boy have I tried with all kinds of detergents vintage and modern. But I have had issues with bad motor protector switches; each time the switch pops it seems to get slightly weaker and will pop faster the next time. Another thing that can cause the Unimatic motor protector switch to pop with moderate suds is if the drain hose is kinked, the pump being clogged or other obstruction to slow the water pump pressure down. | ||
| Post# 116532 , Reply# 18 3/20/2006 at 14:35 (6,604 days old) by peterh770 (Marietta, GA) | ||
Not for nothing, but I think the Roto-Swirls are more agressive. You have the big slope to suck and the big fins to thrash. I think the Surgilator is gentler in that it is smaller and the curvaceous vanes allow the clothes to slip on by easier. Nothing better than a standard capacity WP with a standard size Surgilator... Except a Speed Queen... And a Philco... And a Kelvinator... And a Frigidaire... (ducking and running away at full speed...) | ||
| Post# 116573 , Reply# 19 3/20/2006 at 17:25 (6,603 days old) by rickr (.) | ||
|
Robert,can you tell me what changes were made to the WP/KM from the 1950's to the 1960's to prevent the suds lock problems? I did add the nylon drain deflector to the 56WP during the rebuild,however that is the only changes I could see from the 56WP to the 65 KM.( I used the tub from a 61 KM during the rebuild to add the lint filter) Very witty Peter. Too bad of all the machines you listed,only Speed Queen is still in business. | ||
|
Post# 116592 , Reply# 20 3/20/2006 at 18:37 (6,603 days old) by frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie) |
||
|
While you're waiting for Robert's reply (that is, someone who actually knows what they're talking about) I think KM/SP began using 1/2- instead of 1/3-horsepower motors at some point in the 1960's. Whether that made a difference, I'm not sure. Our 1960 KM suds-locked all the time, especially (as Robert noted) with towel loads. As a kid, I would wait for the first spin to start, let it spin just a few seconds, then I'd lift the lid and let the excess water drain; I'd close the lid and away it'd go. It just couldn't get rid of the spun-out sudsy water fast enough to prevent suds lock on its own. | ||
|
Post# 116594 , Reply# 21 3/20/2006 at 18:38 (6,603 days old) by frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie) |
||
|
| ||
| Post# 116597 , Reply# 22 3/20/2006 at 19:27 (6,603 days old) by mickeyd (Hamburg NY) | ||
|
love to know | ||
|
Post# 116602 , Reply# 23 3/20/2006 at 20:03 (6,603 days old) by gyrafoam (Wytheville, VA) |
||
|
I remember those Philco's could sure roll those clothes over but don't recall how they would handle an oversized or bulky load. IMO they would not be able to move things around like a Frigidaire no matter which pulsator was used. Robert should know---or Jimmy------? | ||
| Post# 116631 , Reply# 24 3/20/2006 at 22:30 (6,603 days old) by rickr (.) | ||
|
Yes Frigilux,I'll just wait for someone that knows what they are talking about. Who do you think restored my machines? And why would I say that my 1950's WP suds locks on towels,and the 1960's Kenmore does not? Do you really think I would lie about that? What for?Would you like to come to Indiana with some dirty towels, and see for yourself? There are people here that know me personally,and they would tell you that I do not deceive anyone. Someone asked a question on this thread,and I simply did my best to answer it,and included the photos for fun. | ||
|
Post# 116716 , Reply# 26 3/21/2006 at 08:58 (6,603 days old) by unimatic1140 (Minneapolis) |
||
|
Hi Rick, I'm not quite sure exactly what changed, I'm only going by my observations between what I've seen between the 1950's models and the 1960's/70's models. I suspect the drain trap might have something to do with it. Sorry Steve I have five Unimatics hooked up working like new, which get used weekly, I have very soft water as well and have had HUGE suds cakes rising up to the top of the open lid, without ever as much as a blink, so how exactly do we explain this... CLICK HERE TO GO TO unimatic1140's LINK | ||
| Post# 116726 , Reply# 27 3/21/2006 at 09:27 (6,603 days old) by peterh770 (Marietta, GA) | ||
|
Whatever the problem with Kenmore was, the Maytag's and Frigidaire 1-18's that I've owned had the same problem! Yes, even my Miele has a problem (with Persil, no less). Towels = suds lock. As far as suds lock in a solid tub, it can happen. Someone who had a large capacity SQ solid tub used to get suds lock in his machine. Now, that Steve has seen it and Rober hasn't is not the issue: that it CAN happen has to be admitted. Conditions were right that Steve has seen it and conditions are right that Robert hasn't seen it. But the possibility remains.. | ||
|
Post# 116728 , Reply# 28 3/21/2006 at 09:45 (6,603 days old) by frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie) |
||
|
rickr--- I'm not sure what happened in translation, but I was definitely not trying to call you a liar or question your knowledge about washers! I've had both a '59 and a '60 KM which had 1/3-horsepower motors and they both suds-locked quite often. Neighbors who had a KM from later in the 1960's didn't have as much of a suds lock issue, and I think their machine had a 1/2-HP motor. I was just speculating as to whether the larger motor had helped improve the problem, that's all. Sorry for any confusion--- certainly no insult was intended! | ||
|
Post# 116734 , Reply# 29 3/21/2006 at 10:05 (6,603 days old) by unimatic1140 (Minneapolis) |
||
|
Peter, lets be careful with words here. I never said you can't suds lock a solid basket washer, because I have suds locked at least once my Speed Queen, Hotpoint, Philco and Easy. I was refering only to Unimatic washers only. I'm certainly not saying that Steve didn't actually see these Unimatics with their motor protectors popped, because I absolutely believe that he did. What I am saying is I'm trying to figure the root cause, because no matter how hard I try I cannot reproduce those results with my Unimatics.
| ||
|
Post# 116737 , Reply# 30 3/21/2006 at 10:21 (6,603 days old) by gansky1 (Omaha, The Home of the TV Dinner!) |
||
|
I haven't experienced a suds-lock in ages, even in the 51 Kenmore (with surgilator) but this machine doesn't have a recirculating filter of any kind. When I was using the 63 Kenmore washer (with self-cleaning glass bead filter) it locked up constantly. I wondered after comparing the two machines if it had something to do with the aeration of the detergent & water through the wash cycle as it was constantly pumped through the filter. The wash water seems to be much more "foamy" than without a filter, as if a lot of air is being whipped into the mix. Of course the roto-swirl agitator is also sucking air into the wash-water as well which might give it more fuel for foam... I used to have suds problems with the large capacity Speed Queens I've had, part of the problem there may have been the size of the outer tub and the spin-tub whipping up more suds and slowing the spin. As of yet, I've never suds-locked a unimatic or the other solid tub machines I have, I guess I haven't tried hard enough! | ||
| Post# 116750 , Reply# 32 3/21/2006 at 12:25 (6,603 days old) by peterh770 (Marietta, GA) | ||
|
| ||
|
Post# 116782 , Reply# 33 3/21/2006 at 14:28 (6,603 days old) by gansky1 (Omaha, The Home of the TV Dinner!) |
||
|
Could be, Peter, but I've had suds-locks in a 1-18 (spin drain) - which also can really aerate the water a lot to make mounds of foam. The 1-18 has a great spray rinse that helps to knock it down quickly though so it's not as severe as I've had in some WP/KM's. I'll bet it's just the right combination of ingredients, in any machine, that causes the suds-lock condition. Perhaps if we had a crystal ball dryer like that concept Hamilton, it could tell us! | ||
|
Post# 116809 , Reply# 35 3/21/2006 at 17:59 (6,602 days old) by dadoes (TX, U.S. of A.) |
||
 | ||
|
Post# 116822 , Reply# 37 3/21/2006 at 20:29 (6,602 days old) by unimatic1140 (Minneapolis) |
||
|
| ||
| Post# 116829 , Reply# 38 3/21/2006 at 20:55 (6,602 days old) by rickr (.) | ||
|
A suds lock on a solid tub machine seems hard to imagine,but never thought a Filter-Flo with a perforated tub would suds lock with the huge outer tub they have either....But I've done it to mine a few times. Very sorry Eugene.I must have read something in your post that was not really there. One detergent that would be capable of suds-locking any machine,even a Unimatic,would be TIDE With CONCRETE. Do they have that in your stores yet? liquid only,of course. LOL! | ||
|
Post# 116833 , Reply# 39 3/21/2006 at 20:59 (6,602 days old) by gyrafoam (Wytheville, VA) |
||
|
Rick, I was just telling Gansky I remembered how high sudsing Cheer used to be. I remember someones Filter-Flo just vomitting huge quantities of suds over the side-------and oy the suds-lock! | ||
| Post# 116868 , Reply# 40 3/22/2006 at 01:07 (6,602 days old) by brettsomers () | ||
|
where can a video of the Surgilator washing a load be seen? thanks | ||
|
Post# 116890 , Reply# 41 3/22/2006 at 07:02 (6,602 days old) by frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie) |
||
|
| ||
|
Post# 117088 , Reply# 45 3/22/2006 at 23:53 (6,601 days old) by dadoes (TX, U.S. of A.) |
||
|
| ||
|
Post# 117124 , Reply# 47 3/23/2006 at 06:50 (6,601 days old) by frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie) |
||
|
When I went from the '60 KM (Roto-Swirl agitator) to the '85 Whirlpool (Super Surgilator w/wings at the base), I was intrigued by the big difference in sound during agitation. The Roto-Swirl made a macho "ha-RUMPH, ha-RUMPH" sound with a full load, while the Surgilator made a much lighter "splish-splash" sound. Both had very good turnover.
| ||
| Post# 117156 , Reply# 48 3/23/2006 at 10:16 (6,601 days old) by peterh770 (Marietta, GA) | ||
|
Westy -
While there are people here who will swear by the Penta-Swirl, when you look at the two Pentas side by side, I can't see there is that much a difference except the Swirl is more handsome. The swirls are there more for decoration, but the bottom fins are thicker with a curved/sloped valley between. My first experience with the Penta-Swirl was in the hospital I did volunteer work at while in high school. Sterile Supply replaced their '68 Rollermatic with a KM. I thought the capacity was great, but the wash action sucked. | ||
|
Post# 117170 , Reply# 49 3/23/2006 at 11:18 (6,601 days old) by coldspot66 (Plymouth, Mass) |
||
|
Austin, Kenmore did make a super roto-swirl agitator for the tall centerpost 18lb machines before 1981. Part # is 285065, prolly NLA. A penta-vane will also fit a tall centerpost model. P/N 369492. | ||
| Post# 117275 , Reply# 50 3/23/2006 at 19:41 (6,600 days old) by johnb300m (Chicago) | ||
Intelligent Maytag?
We have a LA511 Maytag washer with the turquoise filter agitator. I sudslocked it a few times, and i'm sure other family members doing laundry have as well. But it's never really been an issue. The machine seems to take care of it by itself and recover from sudslock. Under normal conditions in Regular wash, it will do a 60 sec. spin-spray. However when it sudslocks and doesn't get up to full speed, it's as if the washer senses the lock condition. Therefore, i've monitored the machine several times staying in spin-spray for sometimes up to 4 minutes, spraying the suds down while trying to spin. Then once the tub gets to full speed, it procedes with the cycle. Is this a feature? I know this is a machine from the early 80's, where they that intelligent back then? Do modern machines do that too? | ||
|
Post# 117614 , Reply# 52 3/25/2006 at 16:04 (6,599 days old) by gansky1 (Omaha, The Home of the TV Dinner!) |
||
|
Finally Suds-Locked the 51 KM! | ||
|
Post# 117616 , Reply# 53 3/25/2006 at 16:04 (6,599 days old) by gansky1 (Omaha, The Home of the TV Dinner!) |
||
|
And the cure... | ||
| Post# 117622 , Reply# 54 3/25/2006 at 16:28 (6,599 days old) by rickr (.) | ||
|
| ||
|
Post# 117629 , Reply# 55 3/25/2006 at 16:38 (6,599 days old) by gansky1 (Omaha, The Home of the TV Dinner!) |
||
|
| ||
|
Post# 117711 , Reply# 56 3/26/2006 at 01:30 (6,598 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California) |
||
Motor protection switch cutout can also be caused by low voltage condition. The low voltage condition might be caused by loose, tarnished, or corroded electrical connections. Examples might be corroded plug/outlet prongs, tarnished copper wiring, loose wiring, etc. My vintage Waste King garbage disposal occasionally goes through motor cutout problems, without jamming. Simply pulling the plug, and re-inserting it firmly, resolved the problem. | ||
|
Post# 117901 , Reply# 57 3/26/2006 at 22:08 (6,597 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California) |
||
|
I take it all back
Apparently low voltage (at least not from the power cord) isn't the problem with my Waste King. It's continuing to trip the reset switch in the middle of low or no load testing. So I'm thinking the bearings have gone out, or something else that requires removal tear-down. At that point I'm inclined to pop a new one in there. I can always move the Waste King out to the patio kichen (which currently has none) if it turns out to be repairable. | ||
| Forum Index: |
| Other Forums: |
|
|
|
|
|
Comes to the Rescue!
