Thread Number: 54824
Speed Queen (Huebsch) 412 or Fisher & Paykel wa4127g1
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Post# 772120   7/20/2014 at 16:38 (3,539 days old) by sunshine32 ()        

I'm looking to buy one of these machines. I like the size F&P vs. the SQ,as well as some of their other features. The SQ seems more reliable though, from what I've read the past few days. I also like that with the SQ I could get really warm water, by playing around with the machine, and it seems a little better/ stronger made.


I'm in Canada, where both machines are approx. $1,000 each. A lot more that what I can spend, but need a machine that won't need service for years to come,I prefer the top loader, and I also cloth diaper, which is a minor consideration.

What is more recommended?

Thank you very much!





Post# 772122 , Reply# 1   7/20/2014 at 16:46 (3,539 days old) by washman (o)        
Hands down, Speed Queen

Here's a link to my SQ playlist on youtube. In those vids you will see several washing situations, various loads and water levels.

Feel free to ask any and all questions.


CLICK HERE TO GO TO washman's LINK


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Post# 772132 , Reply# 2   7/20/2014 at 17:22 (3,539 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        
Hands down, F&P

Personaly, IMHO, I would take the F&P over the SQ.
If you need to service it, you can do anything by your self.
Second, it will save you in the long run. It Spins way faster (1.5 times as fast), it can wash very energy efficent and has a very efficent (and simple) drive system.
But still, it enables you the full control of everything. Though haveing ATC, you can adjust the ATC settings. You can have a complete true hot wash by selecting Allergene cycle, or, have a efficent, yet effektive wash system. During this EcoActive sequence, clothes are saturated with water at the selected temp. Than, after adding just 2 gallons more water, it recorculates the hot water solution for approx. 5 minutes. Than, it fills with cold water to the desired (or automaticly determined) water level with cool water. This gives the effect of a true hot wash while using way less hot water.
Now, lots will say, F&P would be a plastic bomber. But does this have to be bad? A plastic outer drum absorbs less heat and insulates better. And there are enough F&P out there, being 10 years or more old, and still run fine.
So, I think, the F&P is the better and more future safe investment.


Post# 772172 , Reply# 3   7/20/2014 at 19:53 (3,539 days old) by sunshine32 ()        

2 replies = 2 opinions!

What will the majority be? The SQ is on sale until tomorrow, and the F&P goes on sale Tuesday! I spent too many hours reading...

Can the F&P be a very warm wash, like the SQ where one can fill hot and then add the warm water? Or being predetermined, it wouldn't make a difference to make the cold water slower, or hot water quicker?
(The allergen cycle is good for the cloth diapers, but most of my clothing I wash on regular, with warm.)

Thanks again!


Post# 772173 , Reply# 4   7/20/2014 at 20:01 (3,539 days old) by washer111 ()        
This is Tough

For hands down reliability, Speed-Queen is probably what you want. 

 

However, the F&P has some added technology to improve efficiency as Henene said. 

The Direct-Drive wash system requires far less moving parts than a motor, transmission and belts would require (and therefore less service). It isn't quite 1.5x faster than the SQ, but is around 1100rpm.

 

Automatic Temperature Control can be controlled (each temperature selection is actually controlled to a specific not-dumbed-down temperature, rather than "mixing" hot and cold). 

 

The Eco-Active phase fills with whatever what you select to wash with initially, then slowly moves the tub whilst recirculating the water to allow the enzymes to work their magic (and shift stains that require bleaching). After this, the tub takes cool-cold water and continues with the wash. Some models have specialty cycles that alter this procedure (or a "Traditional Wash," that fills with whatever water you select - so more SQ like). 

 

From what I understand, by default (with eco settings) you get 2 deep rinses + spray rinses, which can be reduced to 1 deep rinse + Spray rinses or just spray rinses.

Unfortunately, the machines are setup to refill with water if they go out of balance (A setting that must be altered by the user). 

 

A member on these forums, also from Australia, "Mayfan69" (Leon - a fellow collector) recently purchased a Fisher and Paykel machine. I won't link you to the thread, since it kinda ended up in "World War 3" territory. 

Nevertheless though, a video was produced for our viewing pleasure. This demonstrates the (surprisingly effective for a DD) agitation and the washing process.





Post# 772175 , Reply# 5   7/20/2014 at 20:03 (3,539 days old) by washer111 ()        
"Very Warm" Setting

YES - You don't get just three temperatures. You also get some added in-betweens:

 

Cold

Cold-Warm (Lukewarm)

Warm

Warm-Hot (Very-warm/Lukehot)

Hot

 

I'm not sure how ATC would work, given Canada's less strict regulations on energy. From what I understand, "Hot" should be no hotter than 60ºC (140ºF), at least on Australian models. 

Warm is around 40ºC (104ºF). 


Post# 772182 , Reply# 6   7/20/2014 at 21:22 (3,539 days old) by mtn1584 (USA)        
Buy ALLIANCE for a BETTER / LONGER warranty!!!

Speed Queen / Huebsch washers built by Alliance have the BEST warranty in the business!! I already have my AWN542 over five years already and she is just breaking in!!! F&P looks like a combination of GE and Haier plastic sets slapped together,,the agitation on the SQ is FAR SUPERIOR to that on F&P besides SQ washers have been put to the test in COMMERICAL LAUNDRIES for years! Can the same be said of F&P?? I don;t think so!! Caveat emptor...Let the buyer beware!
Mike

PS if you are worried about the transmission, the warranty is a whopping 15 years!
That is FIFTEEN YEARS!!!


Post# 772188 , Reply# 7   7/20/2014 at 22:04 (3,539 days old) by washer111 ()        

F&P is actually completely independent design from GE or Haier (Although the latter do own a share in them now). 

 

The F&P Direct-Drive system or "SmartDrive," has been around for at least 15-20 years now. 

I have family whose machines are still operational after about the same amount of time (Which have been used on Cold water washes too. Ugh), with repairs only made because of mice trouble. 

We have at least 2 members here with older machines both running flawlessly (and another Aussie with a very early model SmartDrive OR late-model "Gentle Annie")

 

I believe LG was offering a very long warranty on their drive system too, but the trouble with insuring the drive system is that it is probably the least likely to break (Since when did a simple washer transmission made of metal break at such a young age?)

Whilst a longer warranty means a manufacturer trusts their product longer, I have seen comments here that suggest the transmission is not the weak point - the tub seal for the agitator is actually going to fail before the transmission ever gave thought to breaking down. 

 

Now - If you want more options on the SQ, PLEASE get the machine before they phase out the timers. The newer machines with electronic controls turn the laundry completely into "Set/Forget," much like their FL brethren. Maybe some people like that sort of machine - but I'm sure most people would like at least a little customisation of their cycles. 

What I mean is, there is NO customisation, aside from 3-4 cycles and temperature. Not like traditional machines, where you could set the speed, agitation times, spin-speed, temperature, extra rinses and so forth. The agitation times, spin-speeds (but not temperature) are controlled by some programmer. And while your clothes WILL be clean, you cannot adjust for lighter washes, heavier washes and so on, so you might have to do some extra soaking, or reset the machine for extra cycles to achieve great results. 

The big question here will be the Timer versus Electronic Control debate. Are SQ's timers really as good as people think? Will their electronics be of the same quality, or not? Only time will tell, unfortunately. 

 

Again, in about a years time as SQ move away from customisation to "Set/Forget" washers, these F&P machines will still offer a lot of customisable features for the end-user. 

I'm not sure if SQ will have to use ATC as they make this switch in machines. 

 

I'm not sure what your opinions of Front-Loaders are, but depending on what you chose in that regard, perhaps you'd be more pleased.

Certainly, your clothes will be as clean, if not more clean (and better rinsed) and I imagine you'd notice savings on your utilities and clothes bills too. 

In the realm of FL machines, one must be careful to avoid the "Black Plastic Crap" plague that seems to affect many of the lower-end models and brands. Such machines also temper the water to such an extent to providing dismal washing results, without user intervention. Unfortunately, those machines may provide too-short a cycle to provide adequate time for enzymes to work their magic, and coupled with cool temperatures will be useless as washing anything more than "Not Soiled."

Here in Australia, it seems that machines are actually mandated to provide a particular level of cleaning, whilst also rinsing properly AND conserving resources. If the machines do not meet these guidelines, they cannot be sold (Someone Australian please correct me if I'm wrong. I take this information from posts by other Australian members here). So, the SQ front-loaders offered here do not have the very short cycles as they do in the U.S. They simply cannot clean in such a time. They run for about 90minutes or more, if memory serves me correct. So at least the lack of a heater is made-up for in this instance. 


Post# 772191 , Reply# 8   7/20/2014 at 22:16 (3,539 days old) by sunshine32 ()        

I had an HE toploader, which gave me the ability to open the lid when necessary. I prefer a real Top loader though now. I have used commercial FL machines, and wasn't very impressed.

We need to manufacture these two machines together, for the best of both.

I'm open to all opinions.

Thanks a lot!!!


CLICK HERE TO GO TO sunshine32's LINK


Post# 772192 , Reply# 9   7/20/2014 at 22:18 (3,539 days old) by sunshine32 ()        

Also, I very much appreciate the detailed replies. I try to research thoroughly, especially such an expensive purchase.

Post# 772230 , Reply# 10   7/21/2014 at 00:06 (3,539 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        
It's late in the evening...

Sorry, I messed that up. I meant 1.5 times as fast as the SQ. In German, it wouldn't make that much of a difference. To put it into maths: 710rpm * 1.5= 1065 rpm.
The F&P offers the mentioned 6 temps:
Tap cold (as the line temp)
Cold (18° C)
Luke Warm (Cold+Warm selected, 30°C)
Warm (40°C)
Medium Hot (50°C)
Hot (60°, if possible)
Anyway, I think, the SQ will run longer till a repair, but if it needs service, it will get way more expensive and complicated.


Post# 772235 , Reply# 11   7/21/2014 at 01:06 (3,539 days old) by aptone1 ()        

F&P makes the direct drive motors used by ge and whirlpool in their large top loaders. Their motor is likely far more reliable than any mechanical transmission. My guess is that the tub seals would fail first in both of the machines you are considering. The electronics are an additional failure point in the F&P. It should be noted that those electronics allow for a more complex wash cycle. The F&P will have adjustable agitation strokes and more complex cycles. An internal heater will be a big advantage on diaper loads, the enzymes in the soap can work at lower temps then the washer can heat the water to kill any bacteria. Also the F&P's higher spins speed will cut down on dryer time. The SQ has a more vocal user base which can help you to troubleshoot problems and do any customization.

Post# 772255 , Reply# 12   7/21/2014 at 06:29 (3,538 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA)        
F&P

mrb627's profile picture
I went looking for F&P laundry a few months back. There were 2 showrooms in my area that carry F&P. Both have pulled them from floor displays because of issues in one or more areas. Each dealer will 'special' order a machine for you but wont warranty service them any longer.

That is enough to scare me away from them.
Too bad, I like the design.

Malcolm


Post# 772268 , Reply# 13   7/21/2014 at 07:49 (3,538 days old) by pierreandreply4 (St-Bruno de montarville (province of quebec) canada)        
i know i am far from this but if i stay on topic

pierreandreply4's profile picture
I know i am off topic but if i stick to the topic when me and my mom replace or duet set if we go back to a top load washer i think i will suggest to my mom we go with huebesch speed queen if it was possible for canadien stores to special order a real speed queen i would go with this model AWN542 speed queen but the top of the line model for canadien model is the zwn 432 so you would make a better choice going with huebsch speed queen pictures included for refrence

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Post# 772317 , Reply# 14   7/21/2014 at 13:26 (3,538 days old) by sunshine32 ()        

Should I get the extended warranty?

Thanks.


Post# 772321 , Reply# 15   7/21/2014 at 13:39 (3,538 days old) by washman (o)        
On which model?

"Should I get the extended warranty? "

On the SQ, no. You won't need it.


Post# 772325 , Reply# 16   7/21/2014 at 13:48 (3,538 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        

On the F&P, I wouldn't think so, either. They may not last as long, but I suppose first thing to fail will be comming in 6-10 years, so, an extended warranty wont have any effect.
Yet, no matter which machine, one never can be sure. SQ had some timer issues 1 or 2 years ago, F&P have there boards.
What I would rather recomend with the F&P would be a (good) surge protector. Still have to buy one for our Bauknecht. Some members here mentioned there effectiveness.


Post# 772408 , Reply# 17   7/22/2014 at 00:23 (3,538 days old) by sunshine32 ()        
Washing machine bought!

I really appreciate everyone's advice. I spent at least 30 hours reading and deciding. I ended up getting the SQ due to its reliability. I really like the size and real temperatures of the F&P though. I have very hot water in my house, so let's see how it works in the machine.

I'll be getting it on Wednesday!

Thanks again!


Post# 772448 , Reply# 18   7/22/2014 at 08:09 (3,537 days old) by washman (o)        
Congrats

and welcome to the Speed Queen family of discering launderers.

Post# 772449 , Reply# 19   7/22/2014 at 08:17 (3,537 days old) by washer111 ()        

Glad to hear you made a decision. 

 

I imagine you'll be very happy with the SQ. You mention you have plenty of nice, hot water on tap? Well, even with the SQ and its 70/30 mixing (Cold/Hot ratio), you should get reasonable results like that. Maybe you'll have to do some diddling, but it shouldn't be *too* bad!



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