Thread Number: 54978
Siemens equals embarrasment 		[Down to Last]

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Post# 773604   7/28/2014 at 14:07 (3,551 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        

Well, our years long aplliance failure jurney is continuied again.
As pre-note: We have a Siemens WT46E3M5 (I think, it could be a 3O5 as well, or a 305) which had 2 service calls, last one being a PCB replacement. I still have the modul programming manual here in my desk.
Now today I washed a once used outdoors table cloth an a set of bedding which has only been used ones and both is needed agaim tomorrow. Washing was just fine (Bauknecht, Cottons 40° light soil with short and than spun in the AEG as the Bauknecht had some trouble with it).
As I load the dryer and turn it on, I selected Super 40 and low temp. Pressed start. Realized low temp wasn't selected. Stoped the dryer. Pressed low temp. Nothing happend. Tried again. No luck. Next crease care. Nothing. Signal. Nothing as well. Same with the delay timer.
Tried to access service mode. Nope.
So, I fiddled 15 minutes with it and as it seams, all buttons except Start do not do anything. They are active and functioning as far as I can tell (pressing 2 buttons at once still triggers the wrong selection berp), but the functions them selfes do not work at all.
Now, haveing some appliance trouble experience, I can tell by my self that the board is wrongly coded and thinks it is in another dryer. More over, I can pretty mich tell for sure that the A-coding got messed up (see pic for that).
Now, the problem is, as an, programming is done via that not existing low temp button, I can't change that. What I was thinking about was somehow hard resetting the board into the mode it comes from the factory. But I have no idea how.
Has anybody of you an idea of how to do that? Because, the only way to fix this in any other way I can think of right now would be a new 200€+ board which doesn't make sense on a 350€ medium performing dryer with a drum bearing already starting to wear out.
So any help would be more than appreciated!

Best wishes
Henrik

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Post# 773707 , Reply# 1   7/29/2014 at 04:04 (3,550 days old) by glenfieldmathk1 (Glenfield-Leicester-UK)        

Super 40 didn't allow any options on the Uk condenser models (as far as I am aware).
My aunts black pair for instance, doesn't allow a selection on super 40.

Siemens are in no way an embarrassment, their machines are just as good as Miele (most made in Germany), and no where near as expensive. Yeah their dryers don't reverse which is a put off, but nothing too bad.
If you still think there's a fault, call the person back who fixed it last.

Post# 773774 , Reply# 2   7/29/2014 at 11:39 (3,550 days old) by lavamat_jon (UK)        

Only the TOL Siemens and Bosch washing machines are German made nowadays. Everything else; i.e. BOL-MOL washers, dryers, the majority of dishwashers, refrigeration; is made elsewhere in the EU.

Post# 773779 , Reply# 3   7/29/2014 at 12:02 (3,550 days old) by miele4life (UK )        

couldn't agree more lavamat_jon, people still assume all BSH appliances are made in Germany but just the higher end models are made there now. We get models made in Spain, Poland, Turkey & China but at least the packaging says it's country of manufacture, perhaps that's why henene4's Siemens tumble dryer is more likely to be Polish built, hence the problems he's having with it at the moment. :)



Post# 773840 , Reply# 4   7/29/2014 at 17:32 (3,550 days old) by dascot (Scotland)        

My Siemens condenser dryer allows selection of low heat on all cycles. Bosch (assuming your aunts is a Bosch as I've never seen a black Siemens set) may have different options set I guess.

As to original question, I'm not sure how you would programme it, unless you can find a piece of software and connectors to do it via the PC.

One question I'm curious about - how do you tell the bearing is going?

Post# 774033 , Reply# 5   7/30/2014 at 07:04 (3,549 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        

When I push the tub up it lifts about 1 cm and, turning it, it makes a sound like it would slightly clunk against another metal part.
Programming is perfectly described on that manual (I'll scan and post it later, and no, I did not play arround with it) and is done via a list, a 4 digit code and only using the buttons and selector dial.
On the comment of quality: We switched from Miele to Siemens and there is no comparrison. The BSH leaks moisture and heat into the room like crazy. The sensors are anything but accurate. The quality is just not what I would suspect.

Post# 774054 , Reply# 6   7/30/2014 at 07:46 (3,549 days old) by mieleforever (SOUTH AFRICA)        

Sorry if I missed it somewhere, but how is this machine of yours?

Our Miele condensor Dryer runs about everyday with at least two loads per day, we have owned it for about four years now and we are still as pleased as punch with it. We own several other Siemens appliances and we have not had any problem with them but alas your cannot compare the two brands regarding quality and that solid feel about the product.

I do hope you will be able to sort this out, otherwise just get it out of your system and buy yourself a Miele, that is what you wanted from the beginning. The older I get the more I realise that if you settle for something that was not really what you wanted it will only irritate you, one will usually nitpick that product and at the end of the day get the product that you wanted in the first place. So it realy is a false economy one is creating, don't just buy for the hect of it, save until you can afford it and buy what you want because at the end of the day you are the one that will be facing and using the specific product everyday. Same goes to cars, etc.

Cheers



Post# 774094 , Reply# 7   7/30/2014 at 10:50 (3,549 days old) by glenfieldmathk1 (Glenfield-Leicester-UK)        

Dascot, there was a Siemens Black set produced for the Uk, my aunt who has had the set for a while has no problems with it (what 6 years now? I'm sure it was 2008/9) . It doesn't have their IQ drive (does have the anti-vibrate design though - dont think that's shown in the brochure, but is on the machine, and was featured in the old appliances online videos now removed), nor is it labelled IQ700, but its part of that range, they discontinued it for some reason, though Bosch now sell a Black Logixx, which is pretty similar.

I haven't got my old Computer any more, but think I may be able to find the picture, or at least I think I still have the Brochure any way.

Anyway on Super 40 theres no options selectable, it could just be that era, i'm not sure.

I know the BOL/some MOL of Siemens/Bosch aren't German, there tested in Germany though, and those German ones do last, yeah they don't have all metal parts, but for the price of some of the Boschs, including our works BOL Bosch WAB (not German, Turkish apparently), compared to some of the same price range, Zanussi, Hotpoint, Candy etc, they're a lot better.

henene4 on the comment of remaining moisture, you need to adjust the sensors, which are shown in the manual - there's usually about 4 different settings (its represented by a sun), everyone's dryness is different. What people called cupboard dry level could be bone dry, yet for others cupboard dry is in their opinion damp. You can adjust this on the Miele too (see programmable settings).
Just out of curiosity though, why would you change from a Miele to Siemens??

Back to Topic now, have you tried unplugging the machine, then plugging it back in and switching it back on?
Or could it be the light has disconnected themselves (repair man may have forgotten to put it back on, they did that on our WM31 for instance), and it is actually drying at low heat?
Alternatively - try customer services.

Sorry for writing so much :) Hope it helps.

Post# 774103 , Reply# 8   7/30/2014 at 11:07 (3,549 days old) by glenfieldmathk1 (Glenfield-Leicester-UK)        

UK Siemens Black - Brocuhure date 2007/08
(The same model's also features in the 2008/09)

Pic 1/2 - washer
Pic 3 - dryer

Sorry for going off topic.

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Post# 774130 , Reply# 9   7/30/2014 at 13:58 (3,549 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        
Lots to answer...

 First, we got the Siemens after events on our Miele. First, the drum sensor brushes wore out (Mieles have the lifter-to-tub sensing, so, the lifter bars metal surface is energized via a carbon brush). Than, just days later, a pin got in the heater. Both issues have been repaired (made up 400€ in repair bills). Than, as we transported it home, it somehow got a hit so after 2 uses, the door switch broke and as now the actual Miele service was called (before, we braught it to the store we bought it at as they are repairing quite good and cheap), the guy diagnosed a broken E-Board. It had I think something like 4000h on the clock have been red out that time, but the guy said, as they only count full operation hours (1h 59min for example is counted as 1h) it ran way more.
Now, spending 500€ into a dryer, we needed a cheap replacement and had to choose between a simple AEG and this one. It was on sale for 350€, so quite cheap. And therefor OK.
Now, the dryness level: We had it now for 2 ½ years and there is no option to adjust it mentioned in the manual. BUT in the same menue where one can shift from 10A to 16A I discovered a way to add up to 15min of fixed drying time. The problem is that loads like towels dry perfect, but Jeans stay damp whereas shirts are overdried. Further, iron dry was either way to dry of way to damp, sometimes, the results changed even if a simmilar load was done (same set of table clothes, different results). Now, I could access that menue if the low temp button would work. But it dosen't.
Which leads me to the point that I of course unplugged it, I tried the buttons on other cycles, that I am that smart to realize that the drying time displayed does not change if I press low temp and that if I press signal there is no end of cycle beep. But as I said, these buttons work. If I press 2 of them at once, there is that tripple beep saying 2 of more buttons are touched simultaniously. But they do not effect the cycle. It seems like the electronic does not asign any function to them. That is the anoing part: I know the buttons work, but they do nothing.
And of course, I'd change for a Miele any day. But cheap is cheaper for us! I explained that once already: If a 1000€ Miele works 10 years for us, but a 500€ other branded washer works 5 years, the initial investment is lower and as we are 7 of us, we rather have the 500€ now than later.

Post# 774172 , Reply# 10   7/30/2014 at 17:35 (3,549 days old) by aegokocarat (United Kingdom)        

Our Siemens dryer has had 2 engineer visits and sometimes there is a slight once in a blue moon issue where it says the tanks full when it isn't, otherwise its not a bad dryer (3 out of 5 in my opinion)

Post# 774200 , Reply# 11   7/30/2014 at 19:08 (3,549 days old) by logixx (Germany)        

logixx's profile picture
Have you tried teamhack.de?

Post# 774334 , Reply# 12   7/31/2014 at 07:17 (3,548 days old) by iej (.... )        

I'm very disappointed with our Bosch (BSH) heat pump dryer's build quality.
It's an EcoLogixx 7 and the handle has snapped off the door entirely. Seems to be a poor design as it's a pull door with no release button and the plastic of the handle is clearly not strong enough to deal with the stresses involved in regular opening.

We certainly haven't been rough with it.

The drum also only turns one way resulting in lots of tangling of large items and the drying times are quite frankly ridiculous. It takes 3 hours to dry a load of towels.

Also, almost all of the settings other than the Mixed option and Cottons Cupboard Dry results in the clothes coming out wet.

On top of that the control panel is a pain in the rear.

The design of the knob makes it very difficult to see which cycle you're picking. I regularly put it on Iron Dry instead of Cupboard dry because I misalign the knob with the cycle and the touch buttons are too sensitive and you end up accidentally brushing against them while folding clothes or whatever and selecting weird options.

I also didn't realise that because of the self-cleaning system, you cannot connect the condensate drain to a permanent standpipe drain. So, your only option is to empty the condenser tray which is full of lint-laden water.

I've also noticed that the condensate tank is starting to get quite gunked up. There's a layer of either mushed up lint or fungus starting to appear on the sides of the tank and there's really no way of cleaning it as you can't dismantle the tank.

I'll be getting rid of this machine as soon as possible as it's just awful.

I might get a vented Miele again.

Is the Miele T1 heat pump dryer any good? I know the dry times are significantly longer than the vented version, but the energy consumption is much lower and the load size seems to be a good bit bigger.

Does it actually dry clothes or do you get this half-damp result too?

Post# 774337 , Reply# 13   7/31/2014 at 07:39 (3,548 days old) by dascot (Scotland)        

Ah, I'd never seen the black Siemens set. My dryer is the same style as that, but from 2010, so maybe option programming changed between model years.

iej, you can clean condensate tanks fairly easily by putting some bleach and a little hot water in - that will clean any gunk off the bottom and sides of the tank.

Post# 774373 , Reply# 14   7/31/2014 at 11:52 (3,548 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        

As far as I heared, the new T1 generation is just as good as any Miele dryer before, if not better. I can still only say that if you put a pillow in a Miele, set it to extra dry and let it finish, the pillow is dry from the shell to the core. No redrying neede. Dry from one end to the other.

Post# 774375 , Reply# 15   7/31/2014 at 12:01 (3,548 days old) by iej (.... )        

dascot:

My only concern with using bleach in the condensate tank is that these machines flush the condensate back into the condenser to clean it then pump it back to the tank again with the lint floating in it.

I'm just a little concerned that if I even get a small trace of bleach into the condenser it might corrode it.

Even after several rinses that might be tricky.

Post# 774419 , Reply# 16   7/31/2014 at 17:23 (3,548 days old) by dascot (Scotland)        

Do they really drain it from the tank to wash through the condenser? Seems an awfully complicated way of doing it rather than using the float tank water before it is pumped up to the removable tank.

I would've thought, though, that after a few rinses out any concentration of bleach left would be so small as to have little effect on the condenser. I can understand you not wanting to take the risk though.

Post# 774444 , Reply# 17   7/31/2014 at 20:09 (3,548 days old) by logixx (Germany)        

logixx's profile picture
Post# 774627 , Reply# 18   8/1/2014 at 06:38 (3,547 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        
To late... Dosen't matter anymore!

 Well, today was bedding wash day. Just about ½ an hour ago I started the first drying cycle. It stopped after 2 minutes saying full tank. Well, the tank is empty. It still heats, but the condensor pump runs continusly and even if I did not start it yet. I just cleaned the complete system right before (condensor and sump area) and just did it again. Dosen't help.
So, I suppose the board is damaged in some way. Not yet decided what to do, but we'll see.

Post# 774642 , Reply# 19   8/1/2014 at 08:03 (3,547 days old) by logixx (Germany)        

logixx's profile picture

Maybe the float switch is stuck?
Post# 774645 , Reply# 20   8/1/2014 at 08:15 (3,547 days old) by logixx (Germany)        

logixx's profile picture
Post# 774649 , Reply# 21   8/1/2014 at 08:41 (3,547 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        

Checked it and can't feel any blockage. I can still move it by hand so I doubt this.

Post# 774664 , Reply# 22   8/1/2014 at 10:14 (3,547 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        
Times go fast...

 So, I did not dismantel the dryer but I removed the litle plastic cover under the condensor, checked the float, and it moved freely. Filled the sump with water, let it get pumped up,still same fault.
So, wonders of the internet, we already ordered a replacement.
A Bauknecht heatpump dryer as it was well priced and efficent and my mum trust in Bauknecht. Again purchased at OTTO and by some messing with cupons we got it for 589€ including delivery and setup. It is out of the new UltimateCare line, 7kg, A++ and with transparent door. Got the cycle setup with the seperate eCotton label cycle and the Reverse+ option as well as the XL- and WoolPro-cycles.
Lets see what this will get us into.

Post# 774668 , Reply# 23   8/1/2014 at 10:19 (3,547 days old) by logixx (Germany)        

logixx's profile picture

Definately let us know how you like it! Is it the TK Ecostar 72?

 

I was torn between Bauknecht and Siemens as well but ultimately went for my Siemens because of the so-so reviews on Bauknecht/Whirlpool from amazon.de, .co.uk and .fr.
Post# 774679 , Reply# 24   8/1/2014 at 11:08 (3,547 days old) by aegokocarat (United Kingdom)        

The water issue you have Henene is what we have had twice with the Siemens heat pump we have, it was all caused by a fluff blockage which to me seems like a design flaw with the dryer as it pumps water back into the tank with lots of lint in it.
Tom

Post# 774680 , Reply# 25   8/1/2014 at 11:09 (3,547 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        

Actually, yeah, it is! I am not sure, but does Bauknecht still use its multiple way of sensing?
I mean, I think, I can remember to have heared that they have the bar sensors like Siemens plus a sensor that measures air humidity located between filter and heat exchanger. And on top I think they use the temperature difference between drum entry and exit for better calculation as well. At least I think they were used to work like this.

Post# 774686 , Reply# 26   8/1/2014 at 11:30 (3,547 days old) by logixx (Germany)        

logixx's profile picture

According to their YT video, there is also a humidity sensor on top of the sensors the Siemens had.
Post# 774687 , Reply# 27   8/1/2014 at 11:37 (3,547 days old) by hotpoint9534 (UK)        

Aren't Bauknecht just rebadged Whirlpool these days? Are they made to a higher standard?

Tom

Post# 774695 , Reply# 28   8/1/2014 at 12:44 (3,547 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        

Actually, they are pretty much the same. But our washer impressed us for that price and so we thought why not go with Bauknecht for drying as well.
I tried a bit more on the Siemens but actually nothing helps. But while that I found the production date which is the 14th of december 2011. It was baught in April 2012 and has had 2 service calls so far. It ran round about 20 loads a month, so about 600 cycles including some additional cycles. Overall, I can only say that this dryer had not fullfilled our demands.

Post# 774697 , Reply# 29   8/1/2014 at 12:51 (3,547 days old) by logixx (Germany)        

logixx's profile picture

Yes, it's the same brand. Bauknecht appliances tend to have the better features on our market, though. Example: Whirlpool-branded dryers, at least some, have galvanized drums, while Bauknecht dryers have stainless ones.

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