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Thread Number: 55161
New Kenmore dishwashers with Whirlpool's PowerWave wash arm |
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| Post# 775512 8/5/2014 at 00:41 (3,544 days old) by murando531 (Augusta, Georgia - US) | ||
 It seems that Whirlpool's new wash arm design made it into its Kenmore offspring before they released it in their own machines. Again, the action shot shows water barely spitting out from some holes while others not at all. The picture also gives more of an idea of the amount of water in the sump, so this has to be a "full" fill. The new WP filter-model my boyfriend's mother's fiancee (what a mouthful) just got fills with just enough to cover the round pump assembly, and barely into the metal part of the tub. I attached a link to the product page.
Apparently all wash arms before this new "breakthrough" have only used one side of the arm for spraying. The other end I guess was just for looks.
This is the only reference I can find about this arm at all. Nothing in the manual, nor a product demo. What strikes me as odd is that unlike the GE four-way arm, which uses one axis of jets to propel in one direction, then switches to the other axis which has jets to propel it the opposite direction, this arm only has the angled jets at each end to propel it clockwise.
I'm at a complete loss here. Of all things, have we gotten to an all-time low where false spray holes are now being stamped into wash arms to give the illusion of more coverage, and society has become so blindly dependent on marketing that they don't even question the picture? CLICK HERE TO GO TO murando531's LINK 
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| Post# 775531 , Reply# 1 8/5/2014 at 02:53 (3,544 days old) by washdaddy (Baltimore) | ||
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Andrew- the link that you posted isn't doing anything. | ||
| Post# 775551 , Reply# 2 8/5/2014 at 05:34 (3,544 days old) by mark_wpduet (Lexington KY) | ||
Yep
I'm so glad I bought the Maytag instead of WP. It uses a LOT of water. When it drains water out, it actually takes a while. I love the looks of the inside of that machine, but seeing barely any water in there and that weak spray...I dunno. I was so sure that when I bought my WP dishwasher in 2005, that by the time I needed a new one, they would all be horrible. I was wrong.
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Post# 775580 , Reply# 3 8/5/2014 at 07:25 (3,544 days old) by logixx  (Germany) |
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 We went from alternating spray arms to alternating jets. It's the lastest fad. If you look search on Google Patents, you'll find that every manufacturer has some sort of patent on spray arm technology. The goal is either to increase coverage or to improve washing performance in corners. This Kenmore claim to increase coverage by 80% "with sequential jets that sweep dishes from not just one but two sides."
I don't know... My dishwasher has normal spray arm and gets the dishes 100% clean in 55 to 90 minutes. I don't see the need to improve what already works.
Two notes on the picture: that is not the full pressure of the system - I'm sure. It's supposed to "look good" for the photo. And that fill looks just fine to me. You don't really need to dump a bucket of water in there to get clean dishes. During the wash action, my Bosch has no visible water level - every drop of water is being used. Yet, the lower spray arm throws it forcefully against the ceiling of the tub.
Also, I don't think the spray arm is suposed to change direction. It just changes the actives jets.
Search for Model # 13693 on Sears' home page (not sure if a direct link works)
www.sears.com/kenmore-24inch-buil... | ||
| Post# 775584 , Reply# 4 8/5/2014 at 08:24 (3,544 days old) by murando531 (Augusta, Georgia - US) | ||
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There we go. Thanks logixx. :) The Sears/Kenmore site seems to be fickle for whatever reason, just like with the links to the manuals: you can't right click and open it in a new tab or window or it will show the empty "about:blank" page. You have to directly click only for it to open a special pop-up.
Seems like another variable thrown into the mix to lengthen cycle time. If the machine has to use one set of spray jets, then switch to the other, THEN switch to the upper arm, that means there is a good while at each increment that any dish not directly under a dedicated spray jet will be sitting idle, because let's be honest, once a full load of dishes is placed in each rack there's no way water could reach from the bottom arm to the top of the tub, besides a little "spitting" that may bounce that far. And that's even if the bottom were comprised only of plates. | ||
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Post# 775651 , Reply# 5 8/5/2014 at 17:23 (3,544 days old) by logixx (Germany) |
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I also found (and enlagred) this picture online. Seems there is some sort of gear underneath the spray arm.
Alex
View Full Size
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| Post# 775723 , Reply# 6 8/5/2014 at 21:48 (3,544 days old) by murando531 (Augusta, Georgia - US) | ||
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It's still so unclear. I miss the days when features were explained in detail in manuals and brochures, but that's also back in the good old days when people wanted to be empowered to learn about the products they were buying. Now it's all about being as vague as possible. Granted, WP hasn't officially released theirs yet, and Kenmore never explains the feature, other than giving it a different label, but I doubt it will be a very detailed description.
I wonder if the gear is stationary. It's right in the middle of the hub as far as the picture looks. I wonder if there is some kind of mechanism inside the arm itself, and as the arm turns around the stationary gear, the movement causes a geared system inside to drive a diverter back and forth within the arm. If that's the case, I'd then assume that the timing of the alternating holes would be out of sync with the rotation of the arm, so that the jets would never spray at the same spot with any consecutive pass.
Probably not at all how it works, but it's fun to let the engineer within have a brainstorming challenge now and then. :) | ||
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Post# 775805 , Reply# 7 8/6/2014 at 11:34 (3,543 days old) by logixx (Germany) |
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Post# 776058 , Reply# 9 8/7/2014 at 15:22 (3,542 days old) by logixx (Germany) |
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Useless video | ||
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Post# 776059 , Reply# 10 8/7/2014 at 15:26 (3,542 days old) by logixx (Germany) |
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| Post# 776064 , Reply# 11 8/7/2014 at 15:53 (3,542 days old) by mark_wpduet (Lexington KY) | ||
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Of all the places I've lived | ||
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Post# 776069 , Reply# 12 8/7/2014 at 16:07 (3,542 days old) by joe_in_philly (Philadelphia, PA, USA) |
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I remember our old KitchenAid Superba had a fan dry system. If you washed a load on the sani cycle with heated dry, you would seriously burn yourself if you grabbed something right after the cycle ended.
When the fan turned on at the start of the dry cycle, there was a burst of steam that came out of the seam at the bottom of the door. | ||
| Post# 776101 , Reply# 14 8/7/2014 at 19:01 (3,542 days old) by mikell () | ||
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What would you like to know about that spray arm. | ||
| Post# 776103 , Reply# 15 8/7/2014 at 19:04 (3,542 days old) by mikell () | ||
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What would you like to know about that spray arm. | ||
| Post# 776108 , Reply# 17 8/7/2014 at 19:17 (3,542 days old) by volsboy1 (East Tenn Smoky mountains ) | ||
 My Smeg dishwasher with its Orbital wash arm cleans better than any dishwasher I have used. That might be because there is two full size wash arms with the small orbit arms side by side my machine has 4 wash arms two on top and two on bottom .This looks like something that will break with gears and things in it just like that water wall by Samsung.Which did not live up to it's promise that is for sure. I see alot of fake wash holes in dishwashers it just goes to show how stupid these manufacturers think we are.
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| Post# 776153 , Reply# 18 8/7/2014 at 23:41 (3,541 days old) by jkbff (Happy Rock, ND) | ||
I think they are playing up the fan thing because Miele talks about how their dishwashers are more hygienic for not pulling air from under the tub up through the tub and out the front... because introducing outside air will dirty the dishes... Yet theirs pop open on their own to let fresh air in ... .. That somewhat doesn't make sense.. Must be magical bacteria free air surrounding the door when it opens but the other dishwashers must pull their air in directly from the sewer vents.
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| Post# 776155 , Reply# 19 8/7/2014 at 23:55 (3,541 days old) by murando531 (Augusta, Georgia - US) | ||
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My grandparents' Maytag reverse-rack had a fan. The steam would billow out 2-3 feet from the vent during the dry, especially with Heated Dry on.
Once again, the overpowered corporations stripped those features away to replace them with not so useful ones, only to reintroduce it and market it as though it's a breakthrough in new technology.
Sometimes I swear I want to disappear onto my own little island and get away from the ever-growing ignorance of society. Watching these sheep blindly drink the Kool-Aid manufacturers are pouring out just makes me sick. | ||
| Post# 776245 , Reply# 21 8/8/2014 at 10:04 (3,541 days old) by washerdude (Canada ) | ||
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If.. This has the same locking ring as the current spray arm, I am tempted to try this in our new kenmore. | ||
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Post# 776262 , Reply# 22 8/8/2014 at 11:33 (3,541 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.) |
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 All this fussing about a spray arm, LOL. Per mikell's post above, there's apparently some sort of diverter mechanism inside the arm driven by the gear as the arm rotates around it, which functions to vary which spray nozzles are active, and changes the spray angle from the nozzles (thus, the claim that it sprays both the front and back of the dishware). Per his details, 13 revolutions is a full cycle through the variations. | ||
| Post# 776266 , Reply# 24 8/8/2014 at 12:03 (3,541 days old) by mikell () | ||
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And if you don't think gears in a dishwasher are a nightmare to figure out. | ||
| Post# 776267 , Reply# 25 8/8/2014 at 12:08 (3,541 days old) by mikell () | ||
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It's the same general design of locking ring but you would need a new outlet cover with the gear to drive it. One of many designs out there now | ||
| Post# 776268 , Reply# 26 8/8/2014 at 12:10 (3,541 days old) by mikell () | ||
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I have a Water Wall in a pile if anyone has any questions on what goes on under the hood. | ||
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Post# 776269 , Reply# 27 8/8/2014 at 12:14 (3,541 days old) by logixx (Germany) |
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"some sort of diverter mechanism inside the arm" The patent I posted above clearly describes the mechanism.
As far as fan-assisted drying in concerned - while I prefer it over condensation drying, I actually like that my Bosch gets rids of most of the steam without venting it - the last thing I need is even more heat and humidity during this time of year.
Here is Whirlpool's European Power Dry system - Miele used this system a while ago, too.
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Post# 1063431 , Reply# 31 3/16/2020 at 18:03 (1,494 days old) by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA) |
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13222 model I have been getting good results from my Kenmore 665.13222. Very quiet and does a great job despite the tiny pumps. | ||
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Post# 1063744 , Reply# 32 3/19/2020 at 00:47 (1,491 days old) by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA) |
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noise when empty The noise of this machine sounds very powerful when empty especially from the bottom rack spray arm. | ||
| Post# 1063816 , Reply# 33 3/19/2020 at 16:35 (1,491 days old) by murando531 (Augusta, Georgia - US) | ||
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Thread revivals like this continually remind me of how ignorant I was for not giving these machines a chance before forming my opinion on them. That WP 920 with the TotalCoverage arm could scrub the paint off a Jeep, and continues to do so at my grandparents' house. I think I have more than learned my lesson with the several GlobalWash machines I've owned so far and have loved each of them, and now I find myself excited about new designs like the new Whirlpool platform launching now, rather than dreading change the way I did years ago. So, don't make my mistakes, try new machines and give them a chance, don't write them off immediately and then be forced to eat crow like I have. Haha
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Post# 1063818 , Reply# 34 3/19/2020 at 17:34 (1,491 days old) by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA) |
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whirlpool line Hey Andrew, Do you think that the Maytag filtration will trickle into the whirlpool line? It would be interesting if they did, and use the total coverage wash system with the big motor. It could be similar to the point/voyager hybrid design. | ||
| Post# 1063823 , Reply# 35 3/19/2020 at 18:20 (1,491 days old) by murando531 (Augusta, Georgia - US) | ||
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I'd imagine that we'll see the new design on the Whirlpool side by next year. Typically it seems like WP treats their lineup the way car companies do, for example you'll see more premium features on an Audi before it trickles down to a VW, or a Lexus down to a Toyota. (I'd say Acura to Honda as well but for the past several years, Honda is getting the sexier interiors and features and Acura's line is so stagnant and dated.) So that said, with KitchenAid and Maytag being Whirlpool's "premium" brands, they're going to push these new models for a while as "new and luxury" and the Whirlpools will stay with the GlobalWash platform a bit longer.
Who knows about a TotalCoverage arm in the new ones, because I love the sleek minimal steel arms in the new models, but they put so much time and work into that TC arm and it actually WORKS and isn't just gimmicky (looking at you KitchenAid with that ugly three armed monstrosity), it would be a shame to just scrap it. | ||
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Post# 1063878 , Reply# 37 3/20/2020 at 07:06 (1,490 days old) by appnut (TX) |
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Post# 1063897 , Reply# 38 3/20/2020 at 11:15 (1,490 days old) by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA) |
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l series What will be different with the l series from the k series? | ||
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