Thread Number: 55198
A Convoluted Tale of 210 ° arc-cuate washing
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Post# 775966   8/7/2014 at 07:20 (3,521 days old) by jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)        

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Ever since Robert hit me over the head with BEAM transmissions I've been trying to find the patents that covered that design. I've been looking for years and found nothing, then yesterday BOOM ! In desperation I typed in "fluid drive washing machine" in "guglepatents". I had been typing Beam Manufacturing,  fluid clutch, liquid clutch, doodlebug scooter, all came up DEAD 0 !

 

To my huge surprise the patent that did come up for "fluid drive washing machine" was from GE, - NOT BEAM !! And it was the complete mechanism that Beam used. So this brought a slurry of questions to mind.
I knew from what Robert had told me that the early Hotpoint were "Beam" machines. And we always knew Hotpoint washers were not made on the same assembly line as the GE Filter Flo's until late in the 60's. 

So Hotpoint had to be made somewhere else.


So I kept digging linking one patent to another and finally got down to what appears as the bottom, the first patent for the Hotpoint, Speed Queen, Easy, One Minute design washer.

 

Its a convoluted tale and it will take some more digging to get the actual answers but from what I learned from the Frigidaire patents history this one seems to parallel that one.

 

It starts with a man named A.J. Patch in 1931 who invented the 210° arc-cuate drive for wringer washers in Ripon Wisconsin. He also invented the engagement clutch used to engage the agitate shaft. This whole mechanism will form the base of the "Beam" machine. Interesting he lived in Ripon WI where Speed Queen would be found. 

I have some early wringer parts books that show his transmission in Speed Queen wringers, so there is a connection I'm sure. His claim is very interesting and I think leads to the Speed Queen moniker, he claims that 180° washing won't effectively turn the clothes over so the machine has to operate for an extended amount of time, so that his transmission which really turns through 220° will turn the clothes over much faster saving washing time at the wringer for the Madame. Hence the commercial name "Speed Queen".

 

His patent is 1,964,440 Oct 27, 1931 you can view it at "gugglepatents".

 

Next a patent citing Patch's work shows up in Aug 14, 1946 by a G.P. Castner who works for a company called Solar in Milwaukee WI. His design incorporates the transmission into a semi automatic with a "bowl shaped tub" but adds the snubber plate design, the 1 point suspension, an early version of the fluid drive, the yoke support for the whole mechanism and the centering springs and an early version of "jet-circle" filling of the tub. Interestingly - which I never knew - he points out the advantage that the fluid clutch will actually slip and slow down the tub on unbalanced loads.

His patent is 2,513,844  8/14/1946.

After this is where GE/Hotpoint comes into the picture, all these patents are then cited by GE, which is common in patent law BUT GE also included the entire design elements in their patents - something you couldn't do unless you owned them. So somehow between 1946 and 1949 GE bought these two patents for the Hotpoint machine, or maybe Hotpoint was bought out by GE I'm not sure here, maybe YOU know that step?

Maybe to get into the automatic game Hotpoint had Beam make the machine instead of building a factory and when GE bought Hotpoint it acquired all these patents and as long as Beam could make money building machines GE let it roll? But that doesn't answer how Speed Queen got involved.

However after this point we see the remainder of the patents covering the Beam design coming out of GE.

The next patent by W.P. McCarty of GE was for a "Beam" design automatic that  followed ABC's current automatic in that this machine also had TWO motors, one for spin , one for wash. In fact it cites the Altorfer patent! It also cites the Kirby patent - designer of the jiggamatic Apex, and Kendall Clark the designer of both the Bendix and Unimatic transmissions !!

 

This patent is 2,646,673 W.P. McCarty 10/19/1949

 

The next patent from J.C. Sharp at GE covers the cabinet design elements of the Hotpoint which were also used on the Easy and Speed Queen automatics. Also this patent includes the famous GE outer tub lip seal design for the outer overflow tub and the then novel idea of incorporating the entire mechanism onto the base plate so that it was completely independent of the cabinet structure. It is also where the invention of the sediment tube removal system is invented, so central to Beam built machines.

 

See 2,687,633 J.C.Sharp 10/14/1950.

 

The first patent I found, which was it appears the last for this design  was from K.M. Hamell for an improved fluid clutch design that shows the entire Beam mechanism in a Hotpoint machine. 

His improvement was the addition of small vanes that helped start up the fluid drive from a stop position and this patent is good to give us the optimal level at which this fluid drive should be filled for optimal pickup and de-clutching in unbalanced spin situations. This patent cites the McCarty patent above.

 

See 2,723,737 11/21/1950 - the day after my parents got married!

 

So the BEAM design is really a conglomeration of many inventors across several companies. My guess is the early patents were licensed to Hotpoint and Speed Queen and when GE bought Hotpoint it aquired these but I still don't see how Beam got involved unless they were a Toll Manufacturer for GE and as such were able to sell this design to other makers who didn't have the capital too tool up their own factories. GE has always been about the $$$ not the fame.

 

This may all parallel what Gansky and I found regarding waterless cookware - we've found 100's of names but they were all mostly made by West Bend for direct marketing companies .

 

AW what do YOU make of all this and what do you think happened?



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This post was last edited 08/07/2014 at 08:01



Post# 775973 , Reply# 1   8/7/2014 at 07:59 (3,521 days old) by jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)        
This could be the first

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instance of a repurposed wringer technology used in an early Automatic.

I can't think of another example can you? Maybe Maytag but was the transmission different after the Maytag wringers ?? I'm not that familiar with the wringers - any takers??


Post# 775984 , Reply# 2   8/7/2014 at 09:20 (3,521 days old) by swestoyz (Cedar Falls, IA)        

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The Maytag wringer transmission (both pre and post model E) is quite different from the AMP/Helical drive transmissions. 

 

These are some very interesting findings, Jon!  I can't wait to read through them. cool

 

Ben


Post# 775986 , Reply# 3   8/7/2014 at 09:36 (3,521 days old) by jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)        
Ben, thank you for the input!

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Let me know what you think, I know its a lot of material but it is crucial to automatic history. Enjoy !

 

 


Post# 776000 , Reply# 4   8/7/2014 at 10:46 (3,521 days old) by washman (o)        
Excellent research!

now if we can only find out where the 30 degree of stroke goes from the actual transmission to the agitator, all will be good.

Post# 776030 , Reply# 5   8/7/2014 at 13:22 (3,521 days old) by jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)        
Where?? YOU ASK??

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Look at the patent by Mr  Patch , that shows how the movement is transmitted from the tranny to the agitate shaft. 

 

 

 


Post# 776083 , Reply# 6   8/7/2014 at 17:31 (3,521 days old) by imperial70 (MA USA)        

Great information. It really shows over time nothing has changed with respect to different companies making strange bedfellows. Same thing goes on today.

Post# 776096 , Reply# 7   8/7/2014 at 18:50 (3,520 days old) by washman (o)        
Well I tried but

I got lost between image 100 and 134 in all that stuff.



Post# 776122 , Reply# 8   8/7/2014 at 20:00 (3,520 days old) by brisnat81 (Brisbane Australia)        

I've got a Whirlpool wringer that has half a BD Whirlpool gearbox mounted underneath. The Pump and Motor are totally different though.

Post# 776158 , Reply# 9   8/8/2014 at 00:11 (3,520 days old) by A440 ()        
Wow!

Great Research Jon! And thanks for sharing.
You are truly the Dr. here.
Amazing finds. Did you find this all out online? Or did you have to also do some book work?
B


Post# 776174 , Reply# 10   8/8/2014 at 01:11 (3,520 days old) by alr2903 (TN)        
Nothing new here...

Jetcone, The link is to "Barlow &  Seeling".  I noticed the " Speed Queen" is listed as "New".  Just guessing but  the wives or a relative might be the connection.  All of the companies  were operating during the great depression?    This "website"  page came up thru barlowgenealogy.com...   Castner's patents mention, Solar Corporation of Milwaukee Wisconsin, a Delaware Corporation?   Thank You!  I had no idea how complicated all of this is.

ALR



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This post was last edited 08/08/2014 at 03:59
Post# 776219 , Reply# 11   8/8/2014 at 07:30 (3,520 days old) by jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)        
Thats an interesting link there

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ALR- I forgot Barlow & Seelig were the original Speed Queens. We have a famous business library here in Boston that will have all the company records of acquisitions I must get down there. Kirstein  Business Library! Now I've got search material !!

 

The Delaware Incorporation means zilch , it was the go to state at the time for all large companies to incorporate in because it was the cheapest at the time. Most at that time were incorporated there but had nothing to do with Delaware.

 

 




This post was last edited 08/08/2014 at 09:11
Post# 776232 , Reply# 12   8/8/2014 at 09:19 (3,520 days old) by jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)        
Barlow & Seelig

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Barlow & Seelig Manufacturing Co. 
Ripon, WI, U.S.A. 
Manufacturer Class: Steam and Gas Engines 

This manufacturer of laundry machinery was founded in 1911 by Joe Barlow and John Seelig. They changed their name to Speed Queen Corp. in 1949. In their earlier years they made their own motors, which may be repurposed to run small woodworking machines. So far as we know, they never sold their motors as anything other than part of a washing machine or dryer.

 

 

  • A 1949 issue of Farm Implement News has this snippet:
    Change Name—The Barlow & Seelig Mfg. Co., Ripon. Wis., making the Speed Queen line washers, ironers and related equipment for ... to correlate its corporate name with this trade name and hereafter will be known as the Speed Queen Corp. ...
  • The company was founded in 1908 by Joe Barlow and John Seelig as Barlow & Seelig Manufacturing. They got their start by taking existing machine designs and improving them. In 1922, Speed Queen was the first company to introduce washers with nickel-copper tubs. The brand name "Speed Queen" was created in 1928. During World War II, it switched production to support the war effort, manufacturing 20 mm shells, and parts for airplanes, tanks and guns. Later, it was sold to McGraw-EdisonCompany (which also owned Eskimo fans and Toastmaster), and then to Raytheon. In 1998, Raytheon Commercial Laundry, owners of the Speed Queen brand, was sold to Alliance Laundry Systems.[2]
  • Raytheon Co. has completed the sale of its commercial laundry business in Ripon to Alliance Laundry Systems for $358 million. Lexington, Mass.-based Raytheon said the transaction closed following the sale of about $75 million of receivables through 1997. Alliance Laundry Systems, which is based in Ripon, was organized by Bain Capital Inc., a private investment firm with $2 billion of capital under management, and Raytheon commercial laundry management. The company's products are sold under the brand names Speed Queen, UniMac and Huebsch.  May 5, 1998 

Post# 776233 , Reply# 13   8/8/2014 at 09:26 (3,520 days old) by jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)        
McGraw-Edison

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McGraw-Edison was an American manufacturer of electrical equipment. It was created in 1957 through a merger ofen.wikipedia.org/w/index.phpQUEST...">McGraw Electric Company and en.wikipedia.org/w/index.phpQUEST...">Thomas A. Edison Industries, and was in turn acquired by en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cooper_Indu...">Cooper Industries in 1985.

 

McGraw Electric was founded by en.wikipedia.org/w/index.phpQUEST...">Max McGraw in 1900 as an electrical contractor, in the business of installing electricity in houses. The founder was aged 17 at the time. The company quickly expanded into industrial and commercial buildings.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McGraw-Edis...">[1] It made several acquisitions over the years, evolving into a manufacturer of electrical products. In 1952 McGraw Electric and the Pennsylvania Transformer Company merged, keeping the name of McGraw Electric.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McGraw-Edis...">[2] Thomas A. Edison, Inc. was formed in 1910 as a reorganization of the Edison Manufacturing Co., which had its roots in the 19th century. It manufactured phonographs, and later moved into radios.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McGraw-Edis...">[3] en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Edi...">Charles Edison became president of the company in 1927, and ran it until it was sold in 1957, when it merged with the McGraw Electric Company.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McGraw-Edis...">[1

So McGraw-Edison probably bought Speed Queen around 1957 as my machine is badged McGraw-Edison.

 

This still doesn't explain the GE Beam Speed Queen connection.

 

 


Post# 776234 , Reply# 14   8/8/2014 at 09:29 (3,520 days old) by jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)        
More McGraw-Edison

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McGraw-Edison Co. was created in 1957 when McGraw Electric Company acquired Thomas A. Edison Industries.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McGraw-Edis...">[2] Charles Edison became board chairman of the merged company until he retired in 1961. Max McGraw was chief operating executive.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McGraw-Edis...">[1] In March 1957, McGraw-Edison acquired en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Griswold_Ma...">Griswold Manufacturing. Griswold manufactured cast-iron cookware and some electrical items. Later that year the Griswold brand and housewares division were sold to the en.wikipedia.org/w/index.phpQUEST...">Wagner Manufacturing Company of en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sidney,_Ohi...">Sidney, Ohio.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McGraw-Edis...">[4] In 1959 Al Bersted became president of McGraw-Edison with responsibility for day-to-day operations. Max McGraw continued as chairman of the executive committee.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McGraw-Edis...">[1]


McGraw-Edison took over the power tool businesses of en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Ele...">General Electric in 1969 and of en.wikipedia.org/w/index.phpQUEST...">G. W. Murphy Industries in 1972.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McGraw-Edis...">[5] In September 1979 McGraw-Edison purchased en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Studebaker-...">Studebaker-Worthington, a company formed from a merger of en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Studebaker...">Studebaker and the en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Worthington...">Worthington Corporation.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McGraw-Edis...">[6] The auto-maker Studebaker had founded in 1852 as a blacksmithing and wagon-building company by en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clement_Stu...">Clement Studebaker and his brother Henry.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McGraw-Edis...">[7] Worthington had been founded by en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Rossi...">Henry Rossiter Worthington, the inventor of the direct acting steam pump.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McGraw-Edis...">[1] The two companies had merged with en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wagner_Elec...">Wagner Electric in 1957 to form Studebaker-Worthington.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McGraw-Edis...">[8] The purchase more than doubled the size of McGraw-Edison.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McGraw-Edis...">[1]


In June 1980 Bastian-Blessing, soon to merge with en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nytronics,_....">Nytronics, Inc., acquired McGraw-Edison's food service equipment division.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McGraw-Edis...">[9] Around the end of 1981 the company sold its power tool division to en.wikipedia.org/w/index.phpQUEST...">Shopsmith, Inc.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McGraw-Edis...">[5] McGraw-Edison manufactured equipment such as air conditioners and humidifiers at their 24 acres (9.7 ha) site inen.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calhoun_Cou...">Calhoun County, Michigan between 1958 and 1980.


In the last decade of operations the company spread about 15,000 US gallons (57,000 l; 12,000 imp gal) of oil waste contaminated with en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trichloroet...">trichloroethylene (TCE) to control dust on the site's dirt roads. In 1980 TCE contamination was found in nearby residential and municipal wells. The State of Michigan and McGraw-Edison Corporation registered a consent decree on 11 June 1984 for clean-up of the contaminated soil and groundwater.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McGraw-Edis...">[10]


McGraw-Edison was acquired by en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cooper_Indu...">Cooper Industries of Texas in 1985. At the time of the take-over McGraw-Edison had 21,000 employees working in 118 facilities in the United States and other countries.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McGraw-Edis...">[1] Cooper took over responsibility for the Calhoun County site clean-up and as of 2004 the remedies were functioning well.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McGraw-Edis...">[10]


Post# 776235 , Reply# 15   8/8/2014 at 09:33 (3,520 days old) by jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)        
Here it is

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McGraw-Edison acquired Speed Queen in 1956.

 

That Al Bersted made out like a bandit it  looks like !!

 



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Post# 776237 , Reply# 16   8/8/2014 at 09:37 (3,520 days old) by jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)        
so a punch list

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How the hell does Beam fit into all of this?

 

How the hell does GE ( Hotpoint ) have the patents for the washer in 1950 right in the middle of Speed Queens ownership between Barlow & Seelig and McGraw Edison?

 

What is Hotpoints history , that has to be the clue that links all of these ??

 


Post# 776238 , Reply# 17   8/8/2014 at 09:41 (3,520 days old) by jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)        
Hotpoint

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So GE acquired Hotpoint by 1918 !!

 

Ahh Robert et al  at Applianceville --  I tend to doubt the factoid "1965 Hotpoint creates the first gentle action agitator washer" My 1961 GE is an agitator washer and has a low speed !!!

 

In 1903, Earl Richardson, a meter reader and plant superintendent for an electric power company in Ontario, California, developed a small, light-weight version of the heavy, cumbersome electric iron first patented in 1882. Richardson's invention was eventually named Hotpoint, after the heating elements that converged in the iron's tip, allowing it to be used to press around buttonholes and in and around ruffles and pleats on clothing and curtains.

Meanwhile, George A. Hughes, a 33-year-old former journalist from Iowa, was experimenting with the first electric range. The model was crude, with simple heating element wires set in clay bricks that burned out after only a few hours of use. After a few years of trial and error, Hughes created the electric range what would revolutionize the way we cook in our home kitchens.

In 1918, Richardson and Hughes joined forces, merging their companies with the General Electric Company, and creating the Hotpoint brand of appliances. Throughout the remainder of the decade, Hotpoint launched many appliance industry firsts:

  • 1924: First all-white, fully enameled electric range.
  • 1950: First electric "moistureless" clothes dryer.
  • 1953: First refrigerator on wheels, designed to make it easier to clean behind the refrigerator.
  • 1961: First 90 Day Replacement Guarantee of Satisfaction allowing any customer who is not satisfied with the performance of a Hotpoint appliance to replace it with a comparable model.
  • 1965: First low-speed agitation clothes washer, making it possible to machine wash clothing such as delicate lingerie, synthetics and cashmere sweaters which previously had to be washed by hand.


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Post# 776239 , Reply# 18   8/8/2014 at 09:49 (3,520 days old) by jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)        
Theory

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Hotpoint must have been operated as a separate division which contracted its manufacturing out. Hotpoint must have contracted with Beam and also maybe improved on the patents Beam was using? And they used GE's legal office to file their improvements. As long as Hotpoint contracted with Beam the patents could be used? 
I think Speed Queen had some of thier own manufacturing but probably started out sourcing from Beam. Maybe by the time Speed Queen was acquired by McGraw-Edison the first patents were running out or maybe GE sold them to Beam or SQ ?

 

But that improved Fluid Drive didn't expire until 1967.

 

 


Post# 776241 , Reply# 19   8/8/2014 at 09:53 (3,520 days old) by jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)        
Patent Exhaustion Doctrine

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This might be what happened to those patents:

 

The exhaustion doctrine, also referred to as the first sale doctrine, is a U.S. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_law...">common law en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patent...">patent doctrine that limits the extent to which patent holders can control an individual article of a patented product after an authorized sale. Under the doctrine, once an unrestricted, authorized sale of a patented article occurs, the patent holder’s exclusive rights to control the use and sale of that article are exhausted, and the purchaser is free to use or resell that article without further restraint from patent law. However, under current law, the patent owner retains the right to exclude purchasers of the articles from making the patented invention anew, unless it is specifically authorized by the patentee.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exhaustion_...">[1]

Procedurally, the patent exhaustion doctrine operates as an en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affirmative...">affirmative defense, shielding authorized purchasers from infringement claims concerning the use or sale of a patented good after the patent owner authorized its sale.

Because the doctrine is only triggered by a sale authorized by the patentee, it is often difficult to figure out if the exhaustion doctrine applies in a particular case, for example, when the patentee restricts or conditions the sale itself, or restricts the use or sale of the patented article once purchased and in the hands of an end user (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-sale_r...">post-sale restrictions). The 2008 Supreme Court decision in en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quanta_Comp....">Quanta Computer, Inc. v. LG Electronics, Inc., leaves unclear the extent to which patentees can avoid the exhaustion doctrine through limited licenses. Since its development by the courts in the late 19th century, the patent exhaustion doctrine has raised questions regarding the scope of exclusive rights granted by patents and the extent to which a patent owner may extend those rights to control downstream use and sales of patented articles.


Post# 776246 , Reply# 20   8/8/2014 at 10:06 (3,520 days old) by jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)        
Holy Cow

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Just stumbled upon the Internet Archives - they have all the Official Gazettes for patents on microfilm - online!!

 

In 1956 GE was offering many patents for sale or licensing so I think I found the answer- GE must have licensed/ sold the Hotpoint Patents at some point to Beam. It will take a lot of digging but I need to know when Beam ceased production. That point would be the starting point to look back from. 

Speed Queen is too vast over time to search for.



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Post# 776250 , Reply# 21   8/8/2014 at 10:15 (3,520 days old) by swestoyz (Cedar Falls, IA)        

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So where does the dual motor Coronado fit into this picture?  I believe that it is mentioned in the linked thread that the owner's manual is 1948, well before Hotpoint and Speed Queen had automatics.  Was Beam licensing the GE patents back in the 40's, or is this pre-GE owning the patents and pre-Beam all together, and it is a Solar made machine? 



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Post# 776253 , Reply# 22   8/8/2014 at 10:18 (3,520 days old) by cornutt (Huntsville, AL USA)        

If I understand the first-sale doctrine, it applies only to actual physical articles that incorporate patented technology, not the patents themselves. So I don't think that related.

Post# 776280 , Reply# 23   8/8/2014 at 13:40 (3,520 days old) by jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)        
Well Ben !!

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When I saw the 2 motor patent I didn't actually think they ever MADE that machine! Now we know they did and why Robert was puzzling over- 

"There seems to be two different distinct eras of the Beam Line, the earliest from 1947 thru 1953 lines and the 1954 thru 1957 lines. "

 

So the one motor machine was applied for in late 1940's and granted 1950 so they obviously converted over to the new simpler machine by 1954. 

 

But they are still all GE patents not Beam. Now were Beam Vacuums still Beam after Franklin  bought them out?? I never heard of a Franklin vacuum. 

Oh it just gets more tangled !!

 

 

This is the kicker - "Then it appears that sometime in the mid 1950's Franklin bought out Beam and in 1958 started to manufacturer the "pig" style Franklin machine complete with the indexing tub. Its also very interesting that in all of this literature Speed Queen was never mentioned even though Speed Queen was the King of Beam made automatics all the way through the 60's."

 

Thank you Cornutt, after a second reading I concur with your analysis.


Post# 776317 , Reply# 24   8/8/2014 at 17:40 (3,519 days old) by alr2903 (TN)        
Indexing tub.

I remember reading here the early TL Westinghouse, was an Easy, iirc.  What year did WH.  begin production of their own TL?  Did the early WH.  TL's made by WH.  index?  arthur


Post# 776328 , Reply# 25   8/8/2014 at 19:20 (3,519 days old) by jeb (Mansfield Ohiio)        
Westinghouse top loader

In 1961 WH bought 20,000 top load automatics from Easy and rebadged them Westinghouse ( dealers were demanding a top loader to keep up with competition). In 1964 WH developed its own top loader called "CPA" (center post agitator). I am guessing, because it was totally redesigned, that the tub indexed. Jeb

Post# 776404 , Reply# 26   8/9/2014 at 06:41 (3,519 days old) by jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)        
Indexing tubs

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were a  totally Westinghouse design they even made it into the "Frigidiare's-in-Exile" models after GM dumped Frigidiare.

 

Oh Ben I forgot to mention the two motor patent was ALSO held by GE. I think the closest they came to that was in Roberts early GE it has two motors for the pumping and draining. But only one motor to drive the beast.


Post# 776466 , Reply# 27   8/9/2014 at 17:46 (3,518 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
Indexing tubs

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Were a Franklin innovation as was stated in or around 1958 [ see reply #23 ], WH did not come out with an IT washer till 1964, 5 or 6. The Frigidaire IT washers after 1980 were PURE Franklin they had little to nothing to due with the WH IT TL washers.

Great information Jon, thanks for all your research, John L.


Post# 776538 , Reply# 28   8/10/2014 at 09:26 (3,518 days old) by jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)        
A new find !! Castner maybe the key

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I have to read these patents in detail to be sure --

 

Castner worked for SOLAR Corp Webster, Iowa  in 1946 and now I find Solar Corp might have become part of or bought out by Gamble Skogmo by 1951 ! Because Castner's next patent "Snubbing Mechanisms for Gyrating Extractors " was granted granted in 1951 under Gambles-Skogmo it looks like   the "Beam" Snubber used in all Beam and Speed Queen machines !!

 

 

 



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This post was last edited 08/10/2014 at 10:13
Post# 776544 , Reply# 29   8/10/2014 at 09:56 (3,518 days old) by jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)        
Beam Speed Queen snubber found -

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It was a Gambles Patent !!!!

 

James Foster and Castner both invented the Beam snubber arrangement it looks like --they worked at Gambles.

 

 

 



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This post was last edited 08/10/2014 at 10:14
Post# 776547 , Reply# 30   8/10/2014 at 10:03 (3,518 days old) by jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)        
From this patent

jetcone's profile picture

it looks like Castner invented the "solenoid clutching" in a varied form but patents have these forms , when the manufacturing engineers get to them configurations get altered to make a cost effective design for factories to produce. As long as they stay in the scope of the patent then no new applications need to be filed but sometimes the engineers find a better way and then that has to be patented too.

 



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Post# 776876 , Reply# 31   8/12/2014 at 08:44 (3,516 days old) by jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)        
Okay after digging further

jetcone's profile picture

I think I see a picture forming. Hotpoint was working with Gambles on the Beam machine around 1949, because I found a patent yesterday by W.P. McCarty ( GE ) in which he talks about the Castner patent from Gambles. It appears they were both working on the same machine at the same time, McCarty was working on the timer control. Castner on the mechanics.

So the Hotpoint ( Beam ) was a collusion of talent from several companies it appears. 

Hotpoint must have had some autonomy from GE at this point. see ppg 1 column 3 in the McCarty patent.

 

 

 

 

 



CLICK HERE TO GO TO jetcone's LINK

Post# 776980 , Reply# 32   8/12/2014 at 19:07 (3,515 days old) by washman (o)        
Jet I gotta hand it to ya

I thought I was a transmission freak but you sir take the cake!

Amazing amount of research here and very informative indeed.

I'm trying to get SQ to give their current tranny a name but thus far, they are not biting.

Should we call it Mil-en-e-Cuate 180?

Or Arc-C-Steel 183.5?

Neverbreak Steel 195?

Thoughts?


Post# 777069 , Reply# 33   8/13/2014 at 07:51 (3,515 days old) by jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)        
Thanks Washman I think we now -

jetcone's profile picture

- have most of the history in the bones of these patents. I didn't ever think this would involve so a many companies. I 'll need to swing through any Borg Warner /McGraw Edison patents to be sure we got everyt hing.

 

Didn't they give a degree swing on this new SQ transmission? I think its funny they had all the tooling for the original transmission why wouldn't they just build those? It would have to be cheaper.


"lok-2-lok 180"

 


Post# 777078 , Reply# 34   8/13/2014 at 08:32 (3,515 days old) by washman (o)        
I believe they still promote 210

stroke if I'm not mistaken.

As far as building the old Arc-Cuate, I doubt the tooling is still around. Some years ago, a facility in Omro was closed. It produced castings and did machining for metal parts. If I was a betting man, I'd say the current tranny is produced by an out side organization to SQ specs. Ripon is probably no more than an assembly facility save for the injection molding done for the agitator and other plastic bits.

The paths of SQ and Frigidaire are eerily similar. McGraw Edison got rid of SQ in 1980, GM dumped Frigidaire in 1979. When the new owners took over, in both instances, existing designs were eliminated and replaced with probably cheaper to produce designs.

In looking at the Arc-Cuate you tore down and cleaned up, one can see the machine work done on the arc gear and the drive gear. That costs money. Nowadays, simple forgings with minimal machining is done to save on cost. The fluid drive is also another cost issue. As are the multiple solenoids and belts to run it all. Bottom line, cost precluded these design elements from going forward. Sad but true.

As good as my SQ is, I know it is in no way the same machine you reworked. The only holdover is the stainless tub. Beyond that, cost was paramount in reworking the design. In fact, I don't even know if the current transmission is even rebuild-able.


Post# 777085 , Reply# 35   8/13/2014 at 09:24 (3,515 days old) by jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)        
All very

jetcone's profile picture

interesing Washman !!!

 

 


Post# 777101 , Reply# 36   8/13/2014 at 11:00 (3,515 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
All Very Interesting, BUT

combo52's profile picture
Building the old Arc-Cuate transmission would still be possible except it would not fit in the current AWs LOL, and yes the tooling has probably been scraped.

Current SQ transmissions are still fully rebuildable, we had a brand new one apart two weeks ago that locked up in a washer trying to do its first load. It seems that a tiny piece of an aluminum transmission housing got in the gear-case and jammed it up. We installed a new GC but took apart the old one changed the oil cleaned it up and resealed it for future use.

SQ built these orignal AC transmissions them selves and they are still building their current transmissions in house, it generally would be stupid to source a major part like a transmission when you are building millions of them for many many years.

When McGraw Edison got away from SQ the new washer was already planned and ready for production, you have to remember that the 70s solid-tub SQs were about the most unreliable AWs being made and sold in the US, they were also one of the most poorly rated for performance and they WERE the poorest selling brand of AWs so I am sure that the new owners knew that they needed to make some big changes if the brand was to survive at all. And SQs sales did improve considerably with the new design both in commercial and in residential sales especially with the addition of using the Amana name on laundry appliances.

John L.


Post# 777577 , Reply# 37   8/16/2014 at 09:20 (3,512 days old) by jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)        
Thats interesting john

jetcone's profile picture

And to my very great surprise I am finding this 1957 to wash as well and as deep and with the same amount of turbidity and turnover that my 1957 Charcoal Live Water action Frigidaire has !!!

 

Willie blows the lid off agitation washers by a mile !!

 

 


Post# 777579 , Reply# 38   8/16/2014 at 09:29 (3,512 days old) by washman (o)        
The

Arc-Cuate

is really great,

on washday,

it carries the freight.


Post# 779702 , Reply# 39   8/27/2014 at 13:00 (3,501 days old) by jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)        
Finished - a Complete patent list of the Beam Design

jetcone's profile picture

I’ve done a complete survey of the early Beam style patents. Here for the archives is what I have found:


The parent company is above the Patent Number.


On the Beam Design Machine:


 


There were


16 Patents


6 Inventors


4 Companies Involved


Of those 16 Patents G.P. Castner holds 10 of them!


 


In order of filing date:


Patch self patent


1,964,440 -10/27/31- Patch – 210 degree tranny, clutch for agitator engagement


 Solar Corp


2,513,844  - 8/14/46 Castner – 1st Fluid Drive, 1 point suspension, yoke style support , early snubber plates


Solar


2,513,845 – 8/14/46 Castner – FD slippage calculated at 18%, 1st FD claim made, good spin theory, first talk of “current cushion”, table of clutching / load speeds


Solar


2,502,702 – 9/27/46 Castner – “GEM of a Patent ! “ Defines terms : “water-wings” & “Flagging effect” for agitator washers !


Solar


2,623,359 – 4/12/47 Castner – Complete 4 belt machine , FD not mounted on motor, addresses end play and chatter in FD, FD engages spin tub AND agitator


Solar


2,699,682 4/12/47 Castner – 1st single motor machine, dip vanes for FD for initial pickup


Solar


2,648,213- 8/12/47 Castner – Jaw Clutch delineated, 4 belt machine, FD wash n spin, but ONE DIRECTION stop n Start motor - NOTE: This patent addresses the current draw of Frigidiare machines- its funny how he states it " For example, and from actual tests with a ten ampere ammeter in the load circuit to the motor, in my machine the starting load as the spinning operation begins may run at about three amperes, "whereas in another machine of well known make, the corresponding starting load will cause the ammeter needle to fly completely off scale" !!


Solar


2,625,244 11/24/47- Castner- HORRID MACHINE ! 1 serpentine belt on 2 belt machine, FD centrally located !


GE


2,646,673- 10/19/49 – McCarty- Hotpoint one point suspension, GE snubber,  2 motor beam machine,  Inventors Cited : Clark( bendix & unimatic) Kirby ( apex) , Altorfer ( ABC). This is the machine Ben pointed out was actually built.


Solar


2,699,683- 8/23/52- Castner – Uni-direction clutches, one REVERSIBLE motor


GE


2,687,633 – 10/14/50 – Sharp – Famous GE outer tub seal, Ring Band + 4 legs completely support mechanism so all 4 panels are removeable, Sediment tube patented


GE


2,723,737-11/21/50 - Hammell et al- Hotpoint machine, improved FD relates to McCarty patent


Gambles-Skogmo


2,746,569- 11/28/51- Castner – Beam snubber-  w/spring & bolt compression, most current design


Gambles- Skogmo


2,746,568- 3/29/52 – Foster – alternate Beam 3 disk snubber


Gambles-Skogmo


2,828,633- 1/17/55 Castner- variation of clutch control to allow use of smaller solenoids.


Post# 779902 , Reply# 40   8/28/2014 at 12:27 (3,500 days old) by Yogitunes (New Jersey)        

yogitunes's profile picture
Alliance named the Speed Queen tranny "Ever-Smooth 210".....they have one on display at our local Mom/Pop Appliance shop...mounted on a acrylic rack....you can't see inside, but you can turn the crank underneath to see the spin action or 210 degree arc.....

the new design still gives the 210 degree stroke, amazing too in such a small package, but it seems equal movement per stroke....

compared to the Q-matic in the solid tub which gave each stroke more revved up force....would like to figure a way to switch the agitators between the two, and willing to bet you would not get the same wash action...

willing to bet a heavier gauge metal was used in the solid stainless steel tubs, versus the perforated designs...it was a claim to fame for them at the time compared to porcelain, no rust, no snags, no chips, and no tears of clothing...actually got smoother with use....

MickeyD retrofitted a ST three vane agitator into his wringer machine, wonder what type of wash action he got out of that, especially with only 180 degree stroke....just curious


Post# 779938 , Reply# 41   8/28/2014 at 16:51 (3,500 days old) by washman (o)        
According to a FB response from SQ

they no longer have the "eversmooth" name attached to the tranny. In fact, the copyright for it expired 5/24/2003.

I think they need to come back with a name to differentiate from the run-of-the-mill competition these days.


Post# 779951 , Reply# 42   8/28/2014 at 17:27 (3,500 days old) by Yogitunes (New Jersey)        

yogitunes's profile picture
that trademark may be expired, but it was just over a year ago when Chuck Melton referred to it in an email as we spoke.....who knows, it may become the "Quiet Glide" next...with emphasis on the "Q"....

the name may get changed, but the actual internals will be the same....

look how many names they gave the tranny from the solid tub years.....it was always the same tranny, just a new gimmick for the kiddies to promote!

although, when you get something tried and true, they should just promote longevity of a trusted well built product....but, does that sell machines anymore?


Post# 779953 , Reply# 43   8/28/2014 at 17:41 (3,499 days old) by PeterH770 (Marietta, GA)        

peterh770's profile picture
I'm not buying it... It might be 210 degree at the transmission, but it's barely clearing 180 in the tub... There must be some give somewhere... Prove me wrong...
:)


CLICK HERE TO GO TO PeterH770's LINK


Post# 779957 , Reply# 44   8/28/2014 at 18:09 (3,499 days old) by washman (o)        
You're not wrong

I measured 185.8 on mine. Perhaps it is the "slop" in the agitator and the drive bell?

Who knows?

I think a chap on here put some black tape on his SQ and sho' nuff, it too was a shy of 210. And it was a classic SQ with fluid drive no less!

Jetcone has a vid somewhere with the arc-cuate torn down and it does look like there he has the 210 degree stroke.


Post# 779970 , Reply# 45   8/28/2014 at 19:05 (3,499 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA)        
Flex fins

mrb627's profile picture
Perhaps the flex fins on the base of the agitator flex 12.5 degrees in each direction?

Malcolm


Post# 780028 , Reply# 46   8/28/2014 at 23:26 (3,499 days old) by washer111 ()        
Well...

The vintage machine that was recently torn down had a video made of it, and the agitation, at least when it leaves via the output shaft was certainly more than 180º - the videos of agitation show it too.

I thought the newer machines were supposed to have 210º agitation too, but perhaps there is some loss in the output, perhaps due to clutch slippage or something?

What I do know for sure is the 210º claim is a hotly contested subject here at AW.org!










Post# 780449 , Reply# 47   8/31/2014 at 18:04 (3,496 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
210 Degree Arc ?

combo52's profile picture
I am with Peter on this one, no one has ever shown a 210 DA at the agitator on ANY SQ TL washer, and there is no clutch that can slip in the agitator output drive.

The transmission in the current SQ TLers is basically the same unit that has been used since the perforated basket machines came out around 1980, there have been several improvements since that time in the construction of it. The current transmission is simple and well built, but is certainly not the most durable TL washer transmission ever.

I would rate TL AW transmission durability in this approximate order.

Best

Solid Tub SQs

Heavy Duty WP BD { HD transmissions were built 1964 and on ]

MT Helical Drive before the Orbital Transmissions

Franklin washers after the early 1970s

Current SQ TL washers

MT Orbital Transmissions

WP Direct Drive Transmissions

GE Filter Flow transmissions [ after 1961 ]

Westinghouse TL washers transmissions.

John L.



Post# 780466 , Reply# 48   8/31/2014 at 19:27 (3,496 days old) by washman (o)        
Well 210 or not,

and based on viewing Jetcone's numerous vids and extensive use of my new "old school" TL, laundry does indeed come clean. Only when I diss around with cheap detergent are wash results less than satisfactory. Use good detergent, no issues, laundry is clean.

For comparison sake, here's a vid link of my GE. Well not the exact model perhaps but the same agitator, tub, etc. Same clank and bang when it agitated. I questioned the durability with the plastic inner and outer tub along with 4 "bungee" type tub anchors but I got 14 years out of it nonetheless. And it washed well too so long as I did not jam too much in it. The SQ trumps it in terms of turnover when I wash 4 complete bath towel sets. No contest there. All other loads, I rate the cleaning ability about the same.






Post# 780583 , Reply# 49   9/1/2014 at 08:14 (3,496 days old) by jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)        
Well Peter and John may have a point`

jetcone's profile picture

The tranny sure enough is alt east 210 - the patent claims 220 and it can't do that without proof. That said, John, there is a clutch between the tranny and agitate shaft, its called a "jaw clutch" and it has some slop built into it. So its time for another vid test now that Willie is all back together and working again.

 

I'll see if I can rig up a system to see what the agitator is doing in the tub.  But it sure washes as good as my  Unimatic.

And John aren't you forgetting the Unimatic built like a tank tranny in that list of TL AW?

 

 


Post# 780596 , Reply# 50   9/1/2014 at 09:28 (3,496 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
Reliability of Unimatic Transmissions

combo52's profile picture
Yes I did leave this great transmission design out along with many others. I would rank it somewhere below the WP DD transmissions, because the UM like the WP DD transmissions incorporate the spinning function into the trans they are much more complicated and trouble prone, so while a really cool piece of engineering it certainly never set reliability records.

A bit of recent Whirlpool trivia, What is the MOST replaced part on WP DD washers built over the last 20 years Under Warranty ?

It is not lid switches, drive cuplings, water pumps, timers, inlet valves, or clutches, But rather TRANSMISSIONS by a large margin, this surprised me a little.

The two easy AWs to change transmissions in ever were the GE FFs and the WP DDs and we did LOTS of GE FFs and we still do LOTS of WP DDs. The current SQs even with a 15 year warranty on the trans will almost never get a trans change after about 5 years, it is just too labor intensive, owners will not generally put $500 into washer repairs on a machine that is over 5 years old.


Post# 780834 , Reply# 51   9/2/2014 at 06:58 (3,495 days old) by jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)        
I have to disagree

jetcone's profile picture

on the reliability with UM transmissions John, they were even used in coin-op machines. In all the UM I've worked on over 30 years the only repair I ever "HAD" to do was one unit had a broken oil pump spring. Nominally I just clean and change the oil they run another 20 years.

 

To my surprise the easiest transmission to change would have to be the 3 belt Speed Queen. Loosen the motor bolts, and drop 4 bolts and the whole thing is out in 2.2 seconds. Never seen one that easy before.

If you break the tub bolts on the GE that could easily be the end of that machine because you'll never get that tub support off the shaft with out breaking it apart and if the new tranny doesn't have one installed you are out of luck.


Post# 781142 , Reply# 52   9/3/2014 at 15:30 (3,494 days old) by jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)        
Well its official

jetcone's profile picture

now. The agitator does well beyond 180 degrees! I think I've figured out a way to measure with a protractor the exact or close angle and its not far off from 210 >

 

Developments to continue !

 

 


Post# 781175 , Reply# 53   9/3/2014 at 17:29 (3,494 days old) by washman (o)        
Jet, do you have a vid of this?

It's been hotly debated since I arrived here last year, perhaps even before. And a new SQ is still advertised at 210 degrees, but I put tape on mine during a normal and gentle cycle and I swear it is slightly beyond 180, perhaps close to 190. I don't have anything beyond the anacanaputican device to measure it though.

Any thoughts? This does need to be resolved.
1. Is your 57 a true 210?
2. Is my 2013 a true 210?

And if not, where and why? And can we solve it by taking what yours measures out to be add it to what mine measures out to be and divide by 2?

Wracking my brain on how to get to the bottom of this.................


Post# 781438 , Reply# 54   9/4/2014 at 19:57 (3,492 days old) by rwindiana ()        

This was bothering me too, because I thought for certain that my 2013 SQ only had a 180 degree arc, and maybe not even that. Turned out to be an optical illusion. I took a video with a high frame rate camera and put marks on the agitator. It definitely goes well beyond 180 degrees. Almost certainly 210, though I have not measured it exactly. So I will attest to the legitimacy of this claim, FWIW. I no longer have the video, but I could make another.

Post# 781476 , Reply# 55   9/4/2014 at 21:02 (3,492 days old) by washman (o)        
Yes rwindiana if you would please

I only have a Cannon Powershot that does not take good vids. Pics yes, but vids no. If you could put one up, I would be most grateful.

Post# 781508 , Reply# 56   9/4/2014 at 22:43 (3,492 days old) by washer111 ()        
@washman

A previous Canon Powershot of ours actually featured a 60fps "action mode" when in the movie mode. This was the style with the rotary dial on the top for selecting your picture/manual mode :)

Post# 781600 , Reply# 57   9/5/2014 at 07:34 (3,492 days old) by rwindiana ()        
Here it is!

See what you think. It does look like somewhere around the 210 degree mark to me.

CLICK HERE TO GO TO rwindiana's LINK


Post# 781601 , Reply# 58   9/5/2014 at 07:38 (3,492 days old) by jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)        
OH yeah

jetcone's profile picture

Thats 210 RW ! ThanK YOU !!! I'll check my Nikon and see if it has a 120fps feature !!

 




This post was last edited 09/05/2014 at 08:30
Post# 781606 , Reply# 59   9/5/2014 at 08:18 (3,492 days old) by washman (o)        
Marvelous!

I knew it, I just knew it all along. SQ comes through again!

Let us rejoice, mystery and debate settled once and for all!


Post# 781631 , Reply# 60   9/5/2014 at 11:39 (3,492 days old) by jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)        
I think I've

jetcone's profile picture

discovered how to film Willie on SLO MO !! Stay tuned ..........


Post# 781669 , Reply# 61   9/5/2014 at 15:13 (3,492 days old) by PeterH770 (Marietta, GA)        

peterh770's profile picture
Photoshopped!!!

Post# 781676 , Reply# 62   9/5/2014 at 15:41 (3,492 days old) by jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)        
Funny Peter!!

jetcone's profile picture

at least I hope that's supposed to be funny.


Post# 781779 , Reply# 63   9/5/2014 at 23:01 (3,491 days old) by washer111 ()        

Well, there is another debate at AW.org successfully settled.

Its certainly more than 180° - and almost certainly 210° (Although I don't have a compass with me, so someone else can measure). 


Post# 781785 , Reply# 64   9/5/2014 at 23:39 (3,491 days old) by akronman (Akron/Cleveland Ohio)        
Successfully settled????????

akronman's profile picture
Nope, my SQ does only about 185 degrees. 1974 solid Tub, advertised as 210, doesn't deliver. It's a great machine and washes well, but it ain't 210 degrees.

CLICK HERE TO GO TO akronman's LINK


Post# 781814 , Reply# 65   9/6/2014 at 06:09 (3,491 days old) by washman (o)        
Oh no!

Yikes, we're back to square one. Ok akronman, somehow you need to grab a camera and do a vid like rwindiana.

Just when you thought it was safe to go back in the water..............


Post# 781815 , Reply# 66   9/6/2014 at 06:09 (3,491 days old) by jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)        
How did you come to that

jetcone's profile picture

185 degree figure, Mark?

Inquiring minds want to know.

 

 

-- I love raging debates over washing machines -------

 


Post# 781883 , Reply# 67   9/6/2014 at 13:00 (3,491 days old) by Yogitunes (New Jersey)        

yogitunes's profile picture
trick of the eye.....those agitators are moving faster than what the eye can see....as RW showed in the vids, for which they too looked like only 180 until it was slowed way down.....

SQ solid tubs all used the same tranny as what Jon has in his '57, and with the tranny opened, he marked a 210 degree stroke....

I think it just falls as an optical illusion....


Post# 781897 , Reply# 68   9/6/2014 at 13:27 (3,491 days old) by jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)        
I'm with

jetcone's profile picture

Yogi on that one !!

 


Post# 781917 , Reply# 69   9/6/2014 at 14:31 (3,491 days old) by washman (o)        
Plus 2 to Yogi

as well. Unfortunately, my canon does not have a slower FPS setting other than the factory default. Thus I cannot do a slow-mo and thus, I take rwindiana vid at full faith and credit.

Post# 781987 , Reply# 70   9/6/2014 at 19:43 (3,490 days old) by akronman (Akron/Cleveland Ohio)        
videos

akronman's profile picture
I only have the one cheapie digital snapshot/video camera, and no intention of buying a new one. So who knows, maybe it tricks the eye? Maybe if I had a 2 speed SQ and filmed it on low speed, it would clear up questions, but mine is single speed only. It's a great solid tub washer, well built, excellent rinsing and overflow, so I'm gonna stop caring what the exact degree is and just enjoy the action and water noises and results. I wish I had first found a stainless solid tub machine, it's a slghtly larger tub than the porcelain, but this is the one I have and it will keep me happy for years.

Somewhere on my list of desired machines is a 60's GM Frig solid tub, I think it was their mode of operation until the 1-18 in 1970? And a GE Soild tub filter flo, I think I have to go back to 63 ish?, 65 ish to find that before the perf models. All the varieties impress me more than a dozen models of the same base design.



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