Upper wash arm woes

Sorry to take so long posting back on the feed. We've been down at the beach, where we had little to no cell phone or Wifi signal to speak of, so there was no way I could upload 1080p videos. I was able to stop thinking about it long enough to have a good vacation, but on the way home I was beside myself trying to brainstorm what in the world could be causing such a problem with the arm moving.

When I got home, I went to Lowe's and got a new inlet elbow piece, some thread tape, and a wire brush, and I took the inlet valve apart and cleaned all the gunk from the insides. There wasn't much on the screen because I had already cleaned it, but the brass fittings were nasty. It doesn't seem to fill any higher, as it already came right up to the bottom edge of the float switch, but I'll at least feel better knowing that it's cleaner now.

I then took the pump assembly apart AGAIN down to the drain impeller, making sure every single piece was perfect and had no blockage, lubing all the seals with dishsoap to ensure water couldn't escape where it isn't meant to, and making sure everything was centered and tightened firmly without overtightening. Again, with the GoPro footage the arm was sluggish, and getting caught at exactly the 12 o'clock position.

To make a long story short, I figured out that the extra oval shaped hole they added on the underside to fan water over the silverware was causing the arm to tip just enough to cause what I assume is added friction, and moreso causing the other end to catch on the supply tube. I fashioned a piece of foil to plug just that hole, and suddenly the movement was smoother and uninterrupted, though still not how I know a PowerClean should perform. I'm settling on the verdict that the arm may be defected just so slightly that visually it looks perfect, but when running doesn't quite cut it. It has probably been this way since it was brand new in the 2006 that it came from. I know that my aunt's has the exact same arm, and she's never had any problems.

I decided finally to try using the upper arm from the Maytag that is stored in the closet, since it's simply an updated WP Point Voyager design. Cosmetically the arms are identical in shape and size, besides this one being a darker grey color, and have the exact same fittings on the hub. The holes are even in the same locations but they're smaller, and they added one at the center that faces outward on the opposite side of the hole that faces inward. The underside is updated even further, having the two projection jets on each side, but now also having slot shaped jets that fan down and out on each end, both pointing opposite directions.

I grabbed the camera and was amazed at the difference! This arm rotates at a slightly different rate than the lower, but seems to have the perfect volume and pressure coming from the jets. You can hear the underside jets sweeping the camera, so I'm hoping the occasional kibble stuck in the silverware will be even less frequent. From the outside it is still quiet but you can actually differentiate the rotation of each arm now. I'm doing my best to upload some of the videos, but with trimming and editing for time, it may take a while.

I'm just going to think of my machine as being even further updated with an upper arm with better coverage, as it was an excellent performer in the Maytag as well, and I can just say my dishwasher is now a 2001/2006 Whirlpool PowerClean/2013 Maytag Jetclean Hybrid. =P


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Post# 779227 8/25/2014 at 01:16 (3,531 days old) by murando531 (Augusta, Georgia - US)
Checkrate/Likes 1 My father-in-law got a GoPro camera recently, and has let us borrow it to take to the beach this week. He also, with no prior encouragement from me, asked me if we could put it in the dishwasher to see what goes on. I said of course! We came home and after some packing and cleaning, I decided to pop it in after the load of dishes sitting had just finished washing. To my painful surprise, the upper wash arm of the new Whirlpool PowerClean I just rebuilt seems terribly lethargic. There are two tiny little pin holes where a knife or some object knicked the ribs on the supply tube, but that shouldn't be enough to draw that much pressure and volume away from the arm. It's also making a good connection to the back as far as I can tell. I'll try to upload a video when I get the chance this week. There is some water coming from the arm hub, which is normal from every video I've seen, but the rotation is terrible, and even gets "caught" or hesitates temporarily, though there isn't a thing in the way, and the flow output is stable. For every four or five rotations of the lower arm, the upper crawls around once. Speaking of the lower arm, it seems not to have a bit of trouble making a steady revolution every 1.5-2 seconds, and the pressure is intense enough to clatter Corelle bowls if they aren't spaced enough. I even switched the lower ring bearings between each arm, but it made no difference whatsoever. The lower is still peppy and powerful, while the upper just crawls, squirting jets that are high enough to just hit the top of the tub but are in no way forceful. I guess any spray coming through from the lower arm was enough to compensate for the upper to this point, because I've still yet to pull a single dirty dish out, aside from the occasional spoon or knife that got stacked against another. I'm completely at a loss, and it almost feels like a failure because I put so much time and work into trying to get it perfect. Does anyone have any ideas as to what could be going on?

Post# 779284 , Reply# 1 8/25/2014 at 09:59 (3,530 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)
Checkrate/Likes 2 *Upper Wash Arm Water Pressure* Is designed to be MUCH less pressure and intensity and rotation speed. That said the earlier WP PC DWs with the feed tube in the center of the lower rack work better than the plumbed in versions. I do think that yours could work a little better but you have to keep in mind it is not supposed to look anything like what the lower arm does. Having had a 1987 WP PC DW in my kitchen for 25 years and a KDSS-20 for about 10 years I can tell you that the KA with the directly fed top wash arm is not nearly as effective as the WP DWs top wash system. Top wash systems were designed not to be as intense so you can wash fragile glass ware plastic items etc without throwing them around . John L.

Post# 779326 , Reply# 2 8/25/2014 at 13:43 (3,530 days old) by jerrod6 (Southeastern Pennsylvania)
Checkrate/Likes 1 Great So I hope you get the time to post the video. I would really like to see it. I am wondering though how people are washing pans and casseroles in the top rack and having them get clean if the spray is designed to be so weak.

Post# 779346 , Reply# 3 8/25/2014 at 14:55 (3,530 days old) by DADoES (TX,�U.S. of A.)
Checkrate/Likes 1 � Detergent chemical action, and (usually) some heat. My KUDS22 rarely toppled anything plastic/lightweight in the upper rack.� My DishDrawer is much worse in that respect, LOL.

Post# 779389 , Reply# 4 8/25/2014 at 18:47 (3,530 days old) by nmassman44 (Brooksville Florida)
Checkrate/Likes 1 I was thinking that maybe there isnt enough of a water charge in the base of the machine. I am willing to bet another full gallon of water added and that lazy wash arm business will disappear. I had the same thing happen with a Whirlpool PowerClean dishwasher I had in my house on Omaha...I took the flow disc out of the valve and reinstalled it. It filled fast and it took care of the low arm pressure in the upper rack. I had to close the water valve some since it was using the float to shut it off but once I got it to the point I wanted it then it filled with the level I wanted. This method would not work in the Miele dishwasher I have now since it uses sensors to monitor water levels and wash system pressures.

Post# 779467 , Reply# 5 8/26/2014 at 06:37 (3,529 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))
Checkrate/Likes 1 *2 little pin holes* Though they might seem small, but I could imagine that they are enough to reduce the already lower pressure even further so there is close to no pressure at all. But can only guess.

Post# 780319 , Reply# 6 8/30/2014 at 20:25 (3,525 days old) by murando531 (Augusta, Georgia - US)
Checkrate/Likes 1 Sorry to take so long posting back on the feed. We've been down at the beach, where we had little to no cell phone or Wifi signal to speak of, so there was no way I could upload 1080p videos. I was able to stop thinking about it long enough to have a good vacation, but on the way home I was beside myself trying to brainstorm what in the world could be causing such a problem with the arm moving. When I got home, I went to Lowe's and got a new inlet elbow piece, some thread tape, and a wire brush, and I took the inlet valve apart and cleaned all the gunk from the insides. There wasn't much on the screen because I had already cleaned it, but the brass fittings were nasty. It doesn't seem to fill any higher, as it already came right up to the bottom edge of the float switch, but I'll at least feel better knowing that it's cleaner now. I then took the pump assembly apart AGAIN down to the drain impeller, making sure every single piece was perfect and had no blockage, lubing all the seals with dishsoap to ensure water couldn't escape where it isn't meant to, and making sure everything was centered and tightened firmly without overtightening. Again, with the GoPro footage the arm was sluggish, and getting caught at exactly the 12 o'clock position. To make a long story short, I figured out that the extra oval shaped hole they added on the underside to fan water over the silverware was causing the arm to tip just enough to cause what I assume is added friction, and moreso causing the other end to catch on the supply tube. I fashioned a piece of foil to plug just that hole, and suddenly the movement was smoother and uninterrupted, though still not how I know a PowerClean should perform. I'm settling on the verdict that the arm may be defected just so slightly that visually it looks perfect, but when running doesn't quite cut it. It has probably been this way since it was brand new in the 2006 that it came from. I know that my aunt's has the exact same arm, and she's never had any problems. I decided finally to try using the upper arm from the Maytag that is stored in the closet, since it's simply an updated WP Point Voyager design. Cosmetically the arms are identical in shape and size, besides this one being a darker grey color, and have the exact same fittings on the hub. The holes are even in the same locations but they're smaller, and they added one at the center that faces outward on the opposite side of the hole that faces inward. The underside is updated even further, having the two projection jets on each side, but now also having slot shaped jets that fan down and out on each end, both pointing opposite directions. I grabbed the camera and was amazed at the difference! This arm rotates at a slightly different rate than the lower, but seems to have the perfect volume and pressure coming from the jets. You can hear the underside jets sweeping the camera, so I'm hoping the occasional kibble stuck in the silverware will be even less frequent. From the outside it is still quiet but you can actually differentiate the rotation of each arm now. I'm doing my best to upload some of the videos, but with trimming and editing for time, it may take a while. I'm just going to think of my machine as being even further updated with an upper arm with better coverage, as it was an excellent performer in the Maytag as well, and I can just say my dishwasher is now a 2001/2006 Whirlpool PowerClean/2013 Maytag Jetclean Hybrid. =P

Post# 780320 , Reply# 7 8/30/2014 at 20:36 (3,525 days old) by mark_wpduet (Lexington KY)
Checkrate/Likes 1 *Is the* darker color of the upper wash arm from the Maytag going to bug you? Are you going to leave it like that or were you just testing and now planning on buying a matching wash arm?

Post# 780340 , Reply# 8 8/30/2014 at 22:20 (3,525 days old) by murando531 (Augusta, Georgia - US)
Checkrate/Likes 1 LET THERE BE VIDEOS! I uploaded five clips, and tried compiling them into a playlist so that when you follow the link, you should have them all in view. Hopefully they work properly. Here's the meat and potatoes of each one: 1. The old arm and supply tube. You can see the two pinholes perfectly. They have some water escaping but shouldn't be enough to weaken the arm this much. You can actually watch the whole arm tip from the force of the downward spraying jet, and it's causing the other end to stumble on the supply tube. 2. I decided to check the pressure of the outlet itself to make sure it wasn't a lack of pressure or volume, but that's obviously not the case. I think it's cool how the water flumes out like a fire hydrant. I actually didn't think it would have that much oomph. 3. Here's the arm from the Maytag. It's amazing the difference in movement, and there's more of a hurricane-water-flying-everywhere effect going on. You can actually hear the fan-jets on the bottom sweeping across the camera. There should be no excuse for niblets to get stuck in the silverware basket now. 4. This is basically the same view, but now with the "updated" supply tube. I ordered it a while back thinking it would make a difference with the other arm, but it didn't. Because this newer arm has smaller spray holes, it seems the pressure builds up much better with this version. Despite being narrower than the previous one, it seems it doesn't affect water flow. Whirlpool claims this is the updated version for the PowerClean platform, but I have a feeling its actually for the Point Voyager, but either way, its fitting for this new wash arm because it is actually from a PV. At least it doesn't have unintentional holes for water to escape from. 5. And finally an overall action shot. I'm always amazed at the power coming from the lower arm, and how cool the thunderbolt shape is. I assume the only reason I haven't had dirty dishes on the top rack with the old defective arm is that the lower arm had enough punch to compensate. Mark - It actually doesn't really look out of place! I was afraid I wouldn't like it, but because the racks and silverware basket are a greyish white, and the wash arm is dark stainless, it fits in relatively well. And besides, I'm sure now I can put even nastier dishes in the top rack with complete confidence, because if it did an excellent job in the Maytag, it should do even better now with the added volume and pressure of the PowerClean's jet-engine pump. So that's that I suppose. I may try finding the light grey wash arm, minus that added spray jet on the under side. The arm it had before finding the newer PC seemed to be perfectly fine without it, but it was that terrible beige color so it had to go. Then again, I may be so impressed with this "upgrade" that I'll just keep it in service, and simply revert it back to the Maytag should I ever need to retire the Whirlpool (knock on wood). CLICK HERE TO GO TO murando531's LINK