Thread Number: 56398
New purchases: 2x Miele, 1x Bosch 		[Down to Last]

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Post# 787095   10/3/2014 at 17:39 (3,484 days old) by rosmebraad ()        

So,

I have for the first time in my life bought my own fridge freezer, washing machine and dishwasher.

Still waiting to be installed as an apartment is being painted, I got the machines into the cellar/basement tonight.

I have been living parts of my life with German machines that are getting old, but have kept going:
Bosch refrigerator from 1987: Runs perfectly well, never had any service attention.
AEG Lavamat 539 from 1989: Ran faultlessly for 25 1/2 years with at least one full cycle a day for all those years! Motor brushes replaced September 2014, back to running well!
Miele dishwasher G 765 SCU from approx 1996. Had main motor replaced under warranty/guarantee while new. After a number of complaints about a whining noise from the motor, service personnel turned up and said there WAS in fact a known problem with that line! Motor etc. replaced under warranty. Has been running perfectly for 18 years and is currrently in great shape.

SO: Is there anything at all that has similar quality among new products?
I am nearly appalled bby the apparent quality of washing machines, fridges and dishwashers. I see cheap, ill-fitting parts, an influx of plastics and cheap Chinese-made products.
I read forums, and people often say their washing machine lasted four or six years, for example.
Since I am not a fan of the throwaway society, I had "worried" for long about this.
Today, I finally took the change, and got the washing machine Miele W3000 Vitality, (I think it is German made) The dishwasher Miele G4201U (Czech made) and the fridge freezer Bosch KGV36XW31. (Turkish made).

I hope I can find quality in these, and faultless operatrion! But I am not sure, so I will aquaint myself with warranty conditions, service personell and read instructions carefully.

Fortunately, the water quality here (Western Norway) is excellent. Washing powder amount can easily be reduced to half of the common recommendations. No limescale at all: Old dishwasher and washing machine still have perfectly clean, stainless steel innards.

Does anybody have views on the products I have mentiones? And experiences with them?
I would be iinterested to hear.

For the sake of the environment and also cost-per-yeas as well as user satisfaction, I think the solid, durable items are preferred!
(Also, I presume that the Mieles will be among the best ffor washing performance.)

NOTE: Picture of 18-yr old dishwasher with cutlery drawer included to compare to new one with cutlery basket only.
Also, new dishwasher had a dent/bend in the right-hand gray panel, should I complain about this? There was not the original factory packaging, only cardboard loosely put around it, and the shop employees warned about the poor wrapping......

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Post# 787112 , Reply# 1   10/3/2014 at 18:57 (3,484 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        
Complaint

 Well, I would at least ask for a small pay back or so. Our 400€ Bauknecht had a scratch in one of its top Front corners and we got 60€ back, so, 15% off. It's always better to ask.

Post# 787113 , Reply# 2   10/3/2014 at 19:03 (3,484 days old) by rosmebraad ()        
Have emailed retailer and importer

 Thanks, I emailed the retailer's head officce and the Miele importer, let's see if and what they reply.

The big retailers here, Lefdal and Elkjøp, and the same company, so I asked for the one to match the other, and they came down by about 12 %.

The pricing is more or less a joke, since these models are priced from 3333 NOK to 6495 NOK in the case of the dishwasher and from 4444 NOK to 9995 NOK in the case of the washing machine, and the store chains alter the prices a lot, so that it is "cheap" one place and "expensive" one place.
So depending on time, the price may vary a lot.



Post# 787170 , Reply# 3   10/4/2014 at 04:32 (3,484 days old) by BoschExxcel ()        

Looks nice! More pics please!

Post# 787193 , Reply# 4   10/4/2014 at 09:21 (3,484 days old) by rosmebraad ()        
Update, more pics

 I received an email from the retailer head office: They said they could A/ Replace the dishwasher immediately or B/ Offer some price reduction.

Since I am about to install it in an apartment over the coming few weeks, I could consider the price reduction: Less hassle for both parties, and while I am assessing whether it is running 100% as it should, I still have the warranty and the (legally required) 5-year "complaint period" here.

Pics: The right hand side of the dishwasher has a dent. I see that the pipe for the top/3rd washer arm runs there, but it seems to not have been damaged.

Then: Fridge still in packaging: I think I will leave it like this until it can be carried to its final destination next door: It seems vulnerable and better off being moved when in the factory's packaging.

Kitchen: Being remodeled. I plan to install the dishwasher in the right part, extending the countertop: I have already sourced more of the counter top material of the same type:
THe interesting thing will be whether the original hoses are long enough to reach the under sink connections!

The washer space is ready: All connections are ready, and there is a drain in the floor for emergencies, and a work bench. ("Laundry room dreams" are just coming into reality....)

Another picture of the right hand side of dishwasher: It seems to have had a decent impact on this side.

Then, the 1989 AEG, which is still running strong with freshly mounted motor brushes! Note the sturdy wooden blocks it is standing on: These are nailed to the floor, keeping it entirely in place!

Finally, the 1987 Bosch fridge, and besides it a 1970s Beha (Norwegian made) oven, with the electric clock/timer: The oven works well and the clock sort of runs, but it has long since been "vandalized" by children playing. I have never seen the knob in place.^

So the question is: How long will these things last? And what are worthy replacements once the time comes?

I can also add that items like Coffee grinder, LG Microwave oven and toaster and waffle maker long are gone to the "Chinese and plastic" consumerism world.



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Post# 787206 , Reply# 5   10/4/2014 at 11:35 (3,484 days old) by hilal_1993 ()        
Nice AEG!

 Nice AEG washer, i've just got a AEG öko_Lavamat 6450 Sensortronic from 1994 for free, works very well and drum bearing sound like new, these old AEG's seems to last forever :)

Post# 787212 , Reply# 6   10/4/2014 at 13:09 (3,484 days old) by rosmebraad ()        
AEGs of old

 Great going, seems like the old AEGs had quality, AND a decent possibility to replace worn parts!
I think the newer ones are considerable less when it comes to quality and durability!

Speaking of old appliances, I am also familiar with the American central vacuum cleaner, this one from the 1970s. Works well, had the motor replaced a few years ago. Fascinatin in this instance that the motor is still available new for the model launched in the 1960s! (Ametek Lamb.)



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Post# 787448 , Reply# 7   10/5/2014 at 14:28 (3,482 days old) by rosmebraad ()        
Running dishwasher tonight

 I just loaded and started the 18 yr old Miele. This one seems far more solid than today's models.
In 1996 it had "all" the stuff: Integrated/hidden heater, fan dry w/o extra heating, XXL size, 87(?) cm height.

Note the two levels also in the middle drawer, and the large capacity. ("14 kuvert")

With only 15l water consumption in the "economy" cycle and spotless cleaning, I think it still beats many of today's new machines for cleanliness and water consumption per cup/plate.

It is a pleasure to use this one!

I am also glad I was persistent when it was new and under warranty to have the motor replaced and the initial bad noises removed.
With the new one, I will be watching it closely to see that it is all in working order.

(The new items are going in a separate apartment, so these old ones will of course be running for as long as they can. I dread the moment replacements are requires for this/these, that will surely require a good step DOWN in quality!!!)

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Post# 787449 , Reply# 8   10/5/2014 at 14:30 (3,482 days old) by rosmebraad ()        
Running dishwasher tonight

 I just loaded and started the 18 yr old Miele. This one seems far more solid than today's models.
In 1996 it had "all" the stuff: Integrated/hidden heater, fan dry w/o extra heating, XXL size, 87(?) cm height.

Note the two levels also in the middle drawer, and the large capacity. ("14 kuvert")

With only 15l water consumption in the "economy" cycle and spotless cleaning, I think it still beats many of today's new machines for cleanliness and water consumption per cup/plate.

It is a pleasure to use this one!

I am also glad I was persistent when it was new and under warranty to have the motor replaced and the initial bad noises removed.
With the new one, I will be watching it closely to see that it is all in working order.

(The new items are going in a separate apartment, so these old ones will of course be running for as long as they can. I dread the moment replacements are requires for this/these, that will surely require a good step DOWN in quality!!!)

Btw. also see the spotless racks: Why do I see online that some baskets are full of rust, is this due to poor quality baskets?





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Post# 787451 , Reply# 9   10/5/2014 at 14:32 (3,482 days old) by rosmebraad ()        
Running dishwasher tonight

 I just loaded and started the 18 yr old Miele. This one seems far more solid than today's models.
In 1996 it had "all" the stuff: Integrated/hidden heater, fan dry w/o extra heating, XXL size, 87(?) cm height.

Note the two levels also in the middle drawer, and the large capacity. ("14 kuvert")

With only 15l water consumption in the "economy" cycle and spotless cleaning, I think it still beats many of today's new machines for cleanliness and water consumption per cup/plate.

It is a pleasure to use this one!

I am also glad I was persistent when it was new and under warranty to have the motor replaced and the initial bad noises removed.
With the new one, I will be watching it closely to see that it is all in working order.

(The new items are going in a separate apartment, so these old ones will of course be running for as long as they can. I dread the moment replacements are requires for this/these, that will surely require a good step DOWN in quality!!!)

Btw. also see the spotless racks: Why do I see online that some baskets are full of rust, is this due to poor quality baskets?




ALSO: Cups are Villeroy & Boch, Royal Copenhagen and ARABIA.
Plates are Villeroy & Boch, pplus some very old Norwegian flint versions, plus some old Bavarian plates. Bowls and glasses are French: Arcoroc.
Cutlery is Norwegian Stanless: Geilo, Hardanger Bestill and my favourite MAYA: These are about 40 years old and still hold excellently for posture and wear!

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Post# 787452 , Reply# 10   10/5/2014 at 14:34 (3,482 days old) by rosmebraad ()        
Running dishwasher tonight

 I just loaded and started the 18 yr old Miele. This one seems far more solid than today's models.
In 1996 it had "all" the stuff: Integrated/hidden heater, fan dry w/o extra heating, XXL size, 87(?) cm height.

Note the two levels also in the middle drawer, and the large capacity. ("14 kuvert")

With only 15l water consumption in the "economy" cycle and spotless cleaning, I think it still beats many of today's new machines for cleanliness and water consumption per cup/plate.

It is a pleasure to use this one!

I am also glad I was persistent when it was new and under warranty to have the motor replaced and the initial bad noises removed.
With the new one, I will be watching it closely to see that it is all in working order.

(The new items are going in a separate apartment, so these old ones will of course be running for as long as they can. I dread the moment replacements are requires for this/these, that will surely require a good step DOWN in quality!!!)

Btw. also see the spotless racks: Why do I see online that some baskets are full of rust, is this due to poor quality baskets?




ALSO: Cups/mugs are Villeroy & Boch, Royal Copenhagen and ARABIA.
Plates are Villeroy & Boch, pplus some very old Norwegian flint versions, plus some old Bavarian plates. Bowls and glasses are French: Arcoroc and Duralex.
Pats from Moccamaster coffe maker to the lower left.
Cutlery is Norwegian Stainless: Geilo, Hardanger Bestikk and my favourite MAYA: These are about 40 years old and still hold excellently for posture and wear!

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Post# 787481 , Reply# 11   10/5/2014 at 17:09 (3,482 days old) by rosmebraad ()        
Store was pushing dearer Chinese-made dishwasher.....

 Also, as I was at the local DIXONS-owned electrical goods retail store, the salesperson soon went dronin on about how their own-brand, Chinese-made dishwasher was a "better option" than a Miele, even when the CHinese-made one cost 50% more!

Does anybody else have this experience? Surely the store-brand Chinese-made machines can't be as good as or even better than the established European brands?

This is the Chinese one:
www.elkjop.no/product/hvitevarer/...

And here is the Miele. (Retail price is in reality 3500 or 3333 NOK at the other branch of the chain.)
www.elkjop.no/product/hvitevarer/...

Why are they doing it this way? Is the Chinese machine bbetter than the Miele?
Or does DIXONS have a far higher profit by selling it?

Post# 787695 , Reply# 12   10/6/2014 at 17:32 (3,481 days old) by rosmebraad ()        
Excuse the multi posting

 It seems that every time I wrote something more into the post, it was not updated, but posted again!

Now something more about the Miele and the Chinese-Made!

From earlier years, I remember the Miele sales brochures boasting how "everything" is amde by themselves in Germany and so on.

Well, there are things called "the world economy", which has affected Miele as well.
"China" and "plastics" are working their way into things:
In recent years, we had two Miele vacuums. It doesn't say where they are made.
Upon checking and enquiring, turns out they as well are Chinese-made!
I called Miele "customer service", only to be brushed off with a saying that it doesn't matter where things are amde, and that there is no point on stating it on the device, either.

So, when checking for some parts, one Miele PCB i saw on eBay is "littered" with Chinese.made parts.
Forther, I have seen a PCB from a Miele "little giant", with a large "Singapore" sign on it.

Is Miele abondoning their previous standings, and becoming yet another plastics/China brand?

I especially don't like how thye seemingly are trying to cover up that a number of their vacuums and parts for other appliances have something to do with China!!!

Maybe there is not that much difference between a Chinese-made appliance and Miele after all?

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Post# 788048 , Reply# 13   10/8/2014 at 18:33 (3,479 days old) by richnz (New Zealand)        
Quality

 Quality depends on how you look at it.
I have a Miele Professional G7859 Dishwasher and its racks are rusty.

Maybe the company has become better at making racks? Maybe its because it was from a large ship and was not treated gently like (Now this is what I am assuming) the majority of Miele appliances.

I think these racks are beyond the magic paint in a bottle repair.
Can anyone share a video on how dishwasher racks are made, because knowing the cost of replacement items it may be more economical to repair.


Quality means meeting some standard (or expectation). If one bought cheap rubbish (From wherever it was made in the world) and it lived up to your expectation of doing what it was supposed to do, then that's what I would call quality.

Quality and style sometimes are confused. Sometimes one inadvertently buys style.... (Some makes are guilty of this) and can often buy this at a premium.

Lastly make sure that what you buy does exactly what you expect it to.
Don't buy a Miele Classic washing machine (Or any other entry level model) and expect silence but do expect it to clean for instance.

As for the Made in China on the components I imagine its cheap labour costs but no doubt I expect the machinery which produces the items to be the same as in Europe.
I was looking at some relays on a Miele board I have and because mine is older they are not made in China however I expect them to last just as long.

The board that was made in Singapore was interesting.
Miele make a song and dance about designing and building the electronics but maybe its because they don't many of that particular type that the work has been contracted out. (How many Professional Machines are made vs how many domestic washers)
I've noticed that the electronics are shared amongst a few of the domestic machines. The parts that vary are the buttons (Cheap) and programming (Cheap)


Oh the Miele professional dishwasher cost me $8 NZ which is about 8 Euro.
I'm happy with the quality.


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Post# 788187 , Reply# 14   10/9/2014 at 18:27 (3,478 days old) by rosmebraad ()        
Short YouTube video, start of boilwash

 I tried a litle video of the start of a boilwash, this is the sound of the 26 yr old machine running perfectly well.....






CLICK HERE TO GO TO rosmebraad's LINK
Post# 789664 , Reply# 15   10/19/2014 at 13:26 (3,469 days old) by rosmebraad ()        
Bosch fridge with Chinese compressor!!!

After further inspection, turns out the Bosch fridge freezer has a Chinese compressor.

I am not surprised.....



Post# 1042209 , Reply# 16   8/19/2019 at 11:15 (1,704 days old) by braane (Norway)        
Update to this

 So now, august 2019,
the status is that the Lavamat 539 is running well after the motor brushes replacement in 2014.
So are the other things mentioned.

Sad story that the Miele quality has dropped since the 199s. Still the dishwashers 6005 and 4201 still work. But they seem flimsy sompared to the 765 model from the 1990s.

It will be a downturn when any appliance has to be replaced, since the build quality and durability these days seems to be going downhill. Just today I saw a Dixon's "Logik" fridge at the store, the door was screaching when opened, not "bad" for a new, unsold fridge!

Post# 1042283 , Reply# 17   8/20/2019 at 04:09 (1,703 days old) by bewitched (Italy)        

Miele electronic boards are still made by them in a factory in Germany but obviously electronic components mounted on them come mainly from China as they became the main producers of electronic components. Comparing a 20 yo Miele with a new one must keep in count technology advances, there are new materials employed that didn’t exist before. Gum pipes and gasket are not the same as 20 years ago as some compounds used in old products are now not longer compliant with today laws about recycling etc. Miele still makes excellent appliances that must meet new and more and more stringent requirements. It is not easy to stay in business in this field nowadays. By the way if you tale a visit to their internet site you’ll see where are their factories and what they produce in them. You’ll find they have a Chinese factory for plastic parts mainly for vacuum cleaners. I am an happy Miele customer for more than 40 years now , I had evey kind (and still have) of domestic appliances made from them and i can say if they are treated properly they work without problems for many years. I dislike waste money buying things that cost little money and last for one or two years delivering poor performance but are plenty of people who prefers buy 10 washing machines that cost 150€ each and then leave them on the curb than buy one appliance that potentially will last for 20 years or more delivering constantly good performances. Aeg was an excellent performer too (i still have my Lavamat Clara SL) when it was the original Aeg! Now people tend to think that the Aeg brand printed on an Electrolux machine makes it the real Aeg. It’s like comparing a genuine Zenith television when Zenith really made them with one made by LG and sporting the Zenith logo on it! this is obviously just my opinion



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