Thread Number: 5689
new here - just want to say hi
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Post# 119062   3/31/2006 at 13:13 (6,572 days old) by panthera (Rocky Mountains)        

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Hi Folks. Have lived in Germany for 20 some years now, am moving back to the 'States to help take care of my folks. Don't know if I will be back permanently or still able to split my time back and forth for a while...
I like good machinery and when I ran into your site the first thing I saw was a picture of what looked like my old rollermatic. A broken one, who'd a thunk it...just like mine usually was. But I loved it. The danger and joy of pursuading it to clunk the pulsator down and spin like mad with my pinky in the transmission. The scent of burning nylon rollers...ah, heady youth.
Hope to learn a lot from you folks, after all these years barely know anyone in Ft. Collins anymore...and the rest of the 'States doesn't look real friendly to gay men right now...so, yeah, kind of childhood memories here.





Post# 119064 , Reply# 1   3/31/2006 at 13:22 (6,572 days old) by bobbyderegis (Boston)        

Panthera,
Welcome, welcome. You will find a very friendly and lively group here. Here's to getting to know you!
Bobby in Boston


Post# 119097 , Reply# 2   3/31/2006 at 16:37 (6,572 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands)        

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A warm European welcome! Hope you enjoy the club.

Post# 119102 , Reply# 3   3/31/2006 at 16:41 (6,572 days old) by knitwits1975 ()        

Hi Keven, welcome aboard! Hey I used to live in Colorado.

Post# 119155 , Reply# 4   3/31/2006 at 20:35 (6,571 days old) by tomturbomatic (Beltsville, MD)        

Hi Kevin and Welcome! We are generally more LGBTC friendly than most of the country and the Supreme Court sorta pruned back some of Colorado's bigotry, so it's not a worst case scenario yet, but all of us should have a passport against the day when those who feel closest to Jesus feel called upon to demonstrate it by making sure that the rights of citizenship in this country are reserved for heterosexuals, preferably Christian, only.

Do you have any favorite German or European appliances in your Munich residence you would care to describe to us? Some members have Miele appliances. I don't know anything about Ft. Collins, but if your parents live in an older neighborhood or if you have time to patrol any thrift stores while there, keep a watch for vintage appliances, like from childhood, and share your sightings with us. Tom


Post# 119282 , Reply# 5   4/1/2006 at 08:10 (6,571 days old) by westyslantfront ()        

Welcome to the club and greetings from Tucson, Az where we are having wash in "Tucson 2006"

Ross


Post# 119695 , Reply# 6   4/3/2006 at 18:57 (6,568 days old) by mrboilwash (Munich,Germany)        

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Hi, freu mich mal nen schwulen Münchner hier zu sehn.
Die Seite hier ist wirklich suchtgefährdend...
Stefan


Post# 119798 , Reply# 7   4/4/2006 at 01:49 (6,568 days old) by panthera (Rocky Mountains)        
a warm welcome

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Thanks all, that is a warm welcome. When I was working in a used appliance shop back in 1989-91, I got to see a lot of mini AEG washers which were about the size of a footstool with a big dictionary sitting on it. They washed a 9 pound load (4.2kilo) and had a wonderfully weird way of spinning the clothes dry: water would fill the tub to slightly more than half. In the middle of a tumble the motor - running over one gigantic capacitor - would suddenly switch to spin. The whole machine would be lifted off the floor and bounce a few times on the rollers - which were hooked up directly to schock absorbers which would do a mid-sized car proud. They were surprisingly trouble free, but known as toilet bowl killers. People kept them next to the sink in the bathroom and boy did they wander. The last ones had an electronically controlled spin which was absolutely unreliable - from the most reliable mini in Germany to the most trouble prone piece of junk in one easy move. Killed them off, too.
Saw lots of Mieles, but this is already too long - if anybody is interested, just ask.
Thanks again for the words of encouragement!
(und Stefan, auch wenn ich "nur" ein 'zugereister' bin, danke! Minga es scho a wahnsinn)


Post# 119809 , Reply# 8   4/4/2006 at 06:07 (6,568 days old) by tomturbomatic (Beltsville, MD)        

Hey Kevin, your post was not too long. We love to go on and on about our machines. Please share more of your experiences.

Years ago some coin operated laundries we used had big bolt-down Milnor washing machines that also extracted. They went from tumble into a distribution phase that gradually went fast enough that the load was held to the side of the cylinder, THEN the drain valve was opened. It was pretty neat to watch as there was lots of water pouring down the window. The slow speed spin continued for a while and then shifted up through higher speeds. We used to wash throw rugs in them and they spun about as well as anything else at the time.

Do you have any pictures of this little AEG washer? Do you think that having a locking brake on 2 or 4 of the rollers would have kept it from wandering? Do you think that it probably would have bounced less if it had gone into a slower speed spin first? Did it only spin at the end of the cycle or did it spin between some of the other water changes? We have a German Frigidaire washer that is more than 20 years old that washes, rinses 4 times and then gives the load its one and only spin.

It sure does not take much to break a toilet bowl. When I worked in houseskeeping at a hospital, we were cautioned to be very careful when taking the big floor machines into the bathrooms to scrub the tile floors. One tap of that big motor against the bowl and you were paying for a replacement. I think I would have padded the side of the AEG that was close to the china bowl.

Thanks again for sharing.
Tom


Post# 120114 , Reply# 9   4/5/2006 at 11:45 (6,567 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands)        

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Sounds to me that this AEG is a similar to mine.

CLICK HERE TO GO TO foraloysius's LINK


Post# 120308 , Reply# 10   4/6/2006 at 08:58 (6,566 days old) by tomturbomatic (Beltsville, MD)        

Louis, does yours do the jumping start into spin or is it the electronic type like Kevin mentioned? Do you remember AEGs that jumped and rolled a bit? Kevin, is this the size and shape machine you are talking about? Louis, does yours extract after each drain or does it just spin after the last rinse? Thanks to both of you. Tom

Post# 120394 , Reply# 11   4/6/2006 at 13:53 (6,566 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands)        

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Tom,

My AEG toploader is a newer one (an AEG Lavamat 220). It has an electronic timer, but still has the increments. The start of the spincycle is more traditional, it drains and after a while it tumbles for a very short time and goes straight to the one and only speed (650rpm). There was also a 850rpm model that did 850rpm. Those machines had troublesome spincycles and later AEG modified the spin into a two step spin that started at 400rpm and later went up to 850rpm.

I have no experience with the older models. From Kevin's description I get the impression they start spinning with a full drum. I didn't know that. If that is the case I would love to find one. Until now I thought only Philips did that.

The jumping or bouncing is another thing. My 220 does that too. It has the same suspension system as Kevin describes. It's more or less like the inside of a machine without the outside. Instead of a vibrating inside you get a vibrating machine. Very funny to watch.

I added a picture of an older model. It's an AEG Lavamat 64SL. This is an ad from 1973. With thanks to the Waschmaschinen-forum.


Post# 120428 , Reply# 12   4/6/2006 at 16:01 (6,566 days old) by panthera (Rocky Mountains)        
yup, that was one of them

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The 64 sl was one of the last reliable AEGs. And yes, they did come in that color. They also came in a chocolate brown and a green which beggars description. There was a nice broken white with a brown top, too.
Did a super job washing and rinsing. The two speed spin I had forgotten, it worked pretty well actually. Take a look at the corners on that case and imagine this very solid, very heavy thing slamming into your toilet bowl. Goodbye toilet. The German text reads: The smallest colorful space-saver. The 64SL did not extract after every rinse, it could be programmed to hold the water (spülstop) after the last rinse. This was supposed to make it easy to add fabric softener or keep things from wrinkling too badly.
I miss them, they had 230V, 15 Amp heating elements for the water and boy were they thorough. The whine of the motor and the sound of the clothes slapping through the water...
Oh, the lids in the 64SL series could be forgotten. Then the drum rotated and the clothes jammed against the heating element. The machine was often destroyed or flooded everything.


Post# 120643 , Reply# 13   4/7/2006 at 16:57 (6,565 days old) by mrboilwash (Munich,Germany)        

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Tom, I remember some older AEG toploaders, even with the old type brushless motors did extract after each rinse, and some models only did that after the 2nd out of 5 rinses.
Not sure about the draining before the spin, but anyway this type of spin (without draining before) was a way to distribute the load evely, but wosened the tendency of sudslocks.
Zanussi for example favored this way of spin for many years.


Post# 120691 , Reply# 14   4/7/2006 at 21:02 (6,564 days old) by tomturbomatic (Beltsville, MD)        

Thank you Louis, Kevin and Mrboilwash (Great name; I love the 190 wash on my machines)

Kevin, Louis and MBW, what is this about the lids being forgotten? Do you mean the part of the cylinder wall that opened to load and unload clothes? You could close the top cover that we can see in the photo with the drum access port still open? That sounds like a poor design. Was this section hinged to one or both sides of the opening or was it a section that unlocked and lifted out? Did the top of the machine have to lock electrically when it was on to withstand the force of all of the water when the cylinder was jerked into spin? It must have looked like a little spastic robot, a science project that went bad or something out of a cartoon when it started jumping around, especially when you consider the weight of all of that water. I'll bet that would have been a wild ride if you sat on it when it did that. When I was in elementary school, there were some friends who were asked by their mothers to sit on top of their Frigidaire washers during the spins to keep the shaking of the machine on a wooden floor to a minimum. Two other friends had to sit on top of the family Bendix top loaders with the rubber tub so that the lid would seal properly for the vacuum extraction.


Post# 120726 , Reply# 15   4/8/2006 at 01:55 (6,564 days old) by panthera (Rocky Mountains)        
insane science project, definitely one gone bad

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yup, yup - only the last models had / have (still being built, but radical other technology, no more jumping on the legs) a two piece cover which "locks" into the frame. The 64SL and most of these just had a removable cover which you had to remember to lock back into place. No interlock there.
The lid locked down with a pretty impressive lock, 'tis true. Was operated by a thermal switch. Not a problem as a the switch started to cool down while the machine was doing its wonderful back and forth at the end of the last spin to loosen up the clothes from the wall of the drum.
Two other things I remember:
- Some of these used an electronic brake at the end of the spin to bring the speed down in no-time. This loosened the clothes up very well.
- They had an opening at the back to vent soap suds. Sometimes this led to the nasty situation of water and suds running down under the rollers...and away we went.
My ex- and I did try you know what on the lid of one of these - very solidly built they were. It was not happy. The need to bounce in place was absolute. Blew another electronic module. Oh, my paws and whiskers, I did so hate those. Hah, yet another thing I just remembered (I am really starting to miss them). There was no electronic sensor to locate the porthole up when the machine stopped, but it wasn't needed - the clothes fell to the bottom, the porthole was on top. The ridges in the drom were so designed that clothes couldn't stick to them.
Miele does use electronics for their top-loader drum positioners.


Post# 120908 , Reply# 16   4/9/2006 at 06:35 (6,563 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands)        

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At least some of the 64SL models already had the two piece cover attached to the drum. Here's a picture of that model with the lid up.

Post# 120909 , Reply# 17   4/9/2006 at 06:37 (6,563 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands)        

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The earlier Novomat models had the removable cover. Here are some more pictures of such an earlier model.

Post# 120910 , Reply# 18   4/9/2006 at 06:38 (6,563 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands)        

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Post# 120911 , Reply# 19   4/9/2006 at 06:39 (6,563 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands)        

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Post# 120912 , Reply# 20   4/9/2006 at 06:40 (6,563 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands)        

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Post# 120913 , Reply# 21   4/9/2006 at 06:48 (6,563 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands)        

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The filter and button trap is at the bottom of the back panel. Besides the improvement on the inner lid there was also a softener dispenser added. You can see it on rim of the machine, at the right from the drum.

I wouldn't dare sitting on these machines, too much going on when they start to spin. Most of the time there is a kind of sudslock. It's fascinating though to look at it, when I first had my 220 I even got a little nauseous from looking at it.

These machines weren't very popular in the Netherlands. The AEG Turnamats (H-axis twintubs) were sold much more overhere.


Post# 120964 , Reply# 22   4/9/2006 at 11:00 (6,563 days old) by mrboilwash (Munich,Germany)        
Louis, what would we do without you ?

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Now as you mentioned it, I remember the one I have once owned for a few days was a Novamat.
I found it in the bulk rubbish as I still went to school. Thought this would be a nice machine for my fist appartement. Did a testrun but it did not heat up the water. Checked the elements and they were just fine. Must have been a relay, I guess.
Anyway I surrendered and ditched it again.
The 500 rpm spin was too poor for my needs so I decided not to invest any money on replacementparts.
Wouldn`t dare to swear, but I think that mine even had three knobs.


Post# 120984 , Reply# 23   4/9/2006 at 12:25 (6,563 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands)        
Now you made me blush...

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The later models indeed had three knobs. Here's a picture the control panel of my own AEG Lavamat 220. BTW, this one has a spinspeed of 650rpm.

Post# 120986 , Reply# 24   4/9/2006 at 12:27 (6,563 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands)        

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AEG made many different models. This must be the first or one of the first. I found the picture on the internet, never saw one in real life. It's the only model I've seen with the controls on the side.

Post# 120987 , Reply# 25   4/9/2006 at 12:31 (6,563 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands)        

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Here's another model that I think was made between the 64SL and the 220. It's the Lavamat 664. This one's spinspeed was 560rp.

Post# 120990 , Reply# 26   4/9/2006 at 12:37 (6,563 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands)        

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The last model was the 240 with 850rpm. The later 240's had a stepped spin as I said before, they started at 400rpm and then went up to 850rpm.

Post# 120991 , Reply# 27   4/9/2006 at 12:41 (6,563 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands)        

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And then this machine was also sold in Hungary under the Hajdu label during the communist era. In this picture you get a really good idea of the size of these machines.

Post# 120992 , Reply# 28   4/9/2006 at 12:44 (6,563 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands)        

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OK, last picture. When AEG stopped making the compact machines with this type of suspension they came out with a new compact model that had a suspension like other H-axis toploaders. To achieve this they made the new ones a little wider to have space for the suspension. This is a Lavamat 275. No dancing anymore!

Post# 121002 , Reply# 29   4/9/2006 at 13:34 (6,563 days old) by tomturbomatic (Beltsville, MD)        

Louis, Thanks for more pictures. In your first posting at 6:35 with the top up there is a raised rectangle to the right of the drum with what looks like a TOGGLESWITCH in it and a matched molding in the cover just above that. Is that the lid switch that shut it off if the lid was raised or was that the softener dispenser that you wrote about in the later post? If that was not the lid switch,was it hidden in the lid lock? Thank you for showing the two types of cylinder access covers.

I see from the cover of the little booklet in your third picture that it looks like this machine came in two sizes, small and mini.

Keven, was the mini the one that you said looked like a footstool with a big dictionary sitting on top of it and washed 4.2 kilos? Louis, what is the capacity of the taller one that you have? I know you told us all about it when you were so thrilled to get it, but I did not know the exciting, destructive history behind the design and I forgot the details of your machine. Sorry.

Louis, where on the back side of the machine in your last picture is the vent for suds that Keven mentions? When you mention that watching yours made you nauseous, were you talking about bypassing the lid switch and watching it tumble in wash and rinse, or did you mean just watching it jump around during spin with the lid locked in the proper operating position? There have been a few machines that made me nauseous also, but it was because they were such cheaply made, poorly designed pieces of dreck.

It seems strange that a machine with so many hazards was marketed for so long. Its jumping around makes me think of a cartoon character from years ago that was supposed to be a Tasmanian Devil. I think it was blue, but I might not remember the color well. It was always jumping up and down and running around at top speed.

Thank you all for indulging my sick interest in this machine. I guess there is something in the male psyche that enjoys all sorts of destructive, demolition derby-type things. That's probably why males are always building weapons and always itching to use them.


Post# 121020 , Reply# 30   4/9/2006 at 14:47 (6,563 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands)        

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Tom,

The raised rectangle at the right of the drum is the softener dispenser that older models didn't have. The picture of 6.39 shows such an earlier model.

There are actually three lid switches. In the 6.35 picture you can see two small pins sticking out of the rim (on the inside, near the detergent dispenser, that is hiding in front of the drum). The third is the button in the molded part of the lid, just under the lidlock.

The picture of the booklet shows the small model on the right and a regular European toploader on the left. The machines in the pictures are all smaller models and all of them have the 4kg capacity (sometimes rated somewhat bigger).

I don't know where the opening at the back is, actually I'm not sure if they had them. Perhaps the older Novamat (not Novomat as I typed earlier!) had it, I'm not sure. I think it was Siemens who had such a thing, but then again I'm not even sure about that. LOL

I have never been able to defeat all those lidswitches. I got nauseous from just watching the very fast up and down dancing machine.

Your interest isn't sick at all, these machines are really fascinating and it's great to talk about them.

Louis


Post# 121025 , Reply# 31   4/9/2006 at 16:51 (6,563 days old) by panthera (Rocky Mountains)        
novamat and mini

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I think Louis has found some of the grooviest stuff ever. Thanks!
There is also a magnetic safety switch on lots of these...so you have to defeat three or four switches, depending on the exact specifications.
Yes, Tom, that is the machine I meant. I think you can see from all the pictures Louis posted (great!) that there have been many incarnations of this washer. The very old one with the two knobs on the side was built by another firm and sold by AEG (might have been a subsidiary). The name fails me, but it sounds like ministar or some such. This machine had no suspension at all, simply relying on a big roller in the front and the wheels in the back to roll back and forth with the spin. Which was only a few hundred r.p.m., anyway. It did, however wash very well.
Destructive is, I guess, a good term for them. On the other hand, Europeans take a very dim view of the US tendency towards "dumbing down". Parents here aren't supposed to let their children get into dangerous situations; adults are expected to use their heads. Safety interlocks on the washers, yes. Warnings not to dry your pets in the microwave, no. No wasted space, they were really compact and well designed. The frames had lots of cast iron hung on them (the chassis was self-supporting) and you would find various water pressure switches or other things tucked into nooks and crevices all over the place. The heating elements were increadibly powerful. Probably the biggest single difference to US machines. The slow heating of water to the ulitmate temperature (European "warm" is warmer than US "hot") was ideal for the enzymatic action of the detergents.
Oversudsing was a mega-mega-mega problem with these things. I used to keep a few pounds of salt and vinigar spirits in the bathroom to calm things down.
A friend of mine mentioned this morning that the switch to DC from AC motors upped the reliability tremendously, I just don't remember.
One last thing, you can see from the lid that is just hooked on (where did you get those great shots? And any chance of one with the case off? Please!?!)just how easy it was to kill these by forgetting to put it in place - or not quite locking it correctly.
The three knob units were at least as flexible as the '59 Computers from Westinghouse... I used to just sit there on the toilet seat and read the whole list...over 20 common possibilites...then my roommate would come in, shake his very blond hair, giving me the evil eye through the strands and pouring in the detergent by guestimation. He'd throw in half again as many clothes. Turn on the water faucet and pull the timer knob. "Niemand hat jemals den mittleren Knopf gebraucht in der Geschichte der Welt. Du spinnst!" (Nobody has ever needed the knob in the middle, you are a nut-case. Then he'd wander back out of the bathroom muttering about crazy Americans and decadent engineers being made for each other.
Guess he was right - the clothes always came out clean and nothing tore, shrunk or turned pink.
Funny to hear you found 500 r.p.m. too slow...lot's of US machines don't even do that and folks wonder why their clothes itch and the dryer bill is so high. We used to tell our customers not to even think about anything under 800 r.p.m. or get a Wäscheschleuder (centrifuge).


Post# 121029 , Reply# 32   4/9/2006 at 18:13 (6,562 days old) by panthera (Rocky Mountains)        
yeah, the little hole by the button filter

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Forgot - the little hole down by the button filter is the overflow. Sometimes it was higher up. These machines are still in use in a lot of homes...perhaps because of their ST. Veitus' Dance method of spinning, they were really well built.
The two pins Louis mentioned on the sides were the lid interlock. They, together with the hold-down for the lid plunger and the magnetically actuated safety-switch were a very effectivve means of preventing anything horrid happening. Since the first spin could easily have taken place with 95° C water (just under boiling in Fahrenheit) you can imagine the dangers involved. Interestingly, they were real water pigs. Unbelievable the amounts they gulped. Especially considering their size. Supposedly had to do with efficient rinsing dispitge the tight confinement.
Oh, the drain hose used to jump out of the sink when they went dancing across the floor during the final spin. Since it was often weighted with a heavy lead or steel extension, it did a job on the sink or bathtub while the washer was doing in the toilet.
Nobody needed TV with these babies...


Post# 121148 , Reply# 33   4/10/2006 at 08:10 (6,562 days old) by tomturbomatic (Beltsville, MD)        

Keven, you forgot "in the history of the world," in your translation. Since you both mentioned the middle dial, how did the letters and numbers match up to create the cycles?

Thank you and Louis for taking the time to explain all of this.
Tom


Post# 121153 , Reply# 34   4/10/2006 at 08:27 (6,562 days old) by panthera (Rocky Mountains)        
wer recht hat, hat recht

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Tom, you are right. I was translating the gist, not the entire sentence. Actually Manfred used to say a great deal more than that---especially when he killed two of these in one month by forgetting the lid.
His wife does not permit him anywhere near their kitchen, by the way. I understand her completely.
Ok. The knob on the left is the timer. The one on the right is the thermostat (and remember, this is centigrade, so it goes from cold to nearly boiling.).
The one in the middle had (depending on model and year) various functions including: Spülstop (no last spin, stuff floated in water). Wasser/Stromsparer - Water/Electricity saver (varied alot over the years, sometimes it really cut the water used in each cycle, sometimes just cut an extra rinse.) Energy Saver - this one sunk the final temperature from 95 to 60 or 60 to 40 (again, varied over time and model) and increased the length of washing time to achieve equivalent results.
And so on.
The timer itself had lots of possibilities. Since German washers wash for hours and hours and hours (ok, 187 minutes max on my current machine -but hey - that is 3 hours +) an additional 20 minutes here or there didn't matter.
You could vary the cycle time, degree of agitation, spin speed, spin type, water level...pre-wash(es) and so on.
Non-intuitive for me, but there were some built-in safeguards. "Wolle" (Wool) for instance would ignore any heat settings above 40° (luke-warm) Permanent-Press overrode the water-saving and automatically sank the 95° wash temperature you had chosen to 60° (if lower, that had priority).
In the 6 years I lived together with the guy, he said "in der Weltgeschickte" at least twice a week regarding me and my US-American ways. He was a member of the German Greens (in the reginal parliment later) and super eco-oriented. First time he went on vacation, I bought a washer. Second time, a clothes-dryer. Third time a dishwasher.
He never took another vacation until after he had married and moved out.......


Post# 121155 , Reply# 35   4/10/2006 at 08:31 (6,562 days old) by panthera (Rocky Mountains)        
list on right

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Forgot the list on the far right of the control panel. There you had a range of washing programmes in the first column (Vollwasch, Kochwasch, Seide, etc.)
In the next column the timer settings, then the extra options (the notorious knob in the middle) and finally the temperatures recommended - with the warning that not all were supported.
This list was not complete, but it covered about the 20 most common possiblities. Some others were useful, like when soaking overnight. There you would fill and heat, then switch to last rinse (agitation) without draining. Or on some models they actually did soak with occasional agitation overnight.


Post# 121210 , Reply# 36   4/10/2006 at 12:32 (6,562 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands)        

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Most of the pictures I posted are from the internet, these washer often show up on the German eBay site. I saved a lot of pictures of washers. Unfortunately there are many more on the harddrive of my old computer, but I can't get access to that harddrive :-(

Keven, is it possible that the first Novamatic was built by Cordes? They made compact toploaders too. Just a guess though.

These machines are indeed like other European machines capable of doing boil washes, but they also have a cooldown at the end of the mainwash. I don't think the plastic standpipes could stand that much boiling water. My guess is that at the end there was about 10 litres of water added.

Sudslock is indeed a major problem with these machines. The space between the inner and outer drum is pretty small I guess, although I have never seen one of these machines open. I guess it's also the reason why they only have a final spin and no spins between rinses. Imagine these machines spinning after every rinse!!

Here's an explanation for the timer and the cycle selector of my AEG Lavamat 220 (picture witht he brown control panel with three dials):

Timer:

Regular:

1. Prewash
2. Main Wash
3. Short Wash
4. Last Rinse
5. Spin

Delicate:

6. Prewash
7. Main Wash
8. Last Rinse
9. Short Spin


Cycle Selector:

A: Cottons
A½: Cottons small load
B: Permanent Press
B½: Permanent Press small load
C: Soak cycle
D: Delicate cycle
H: Wool

As you can see my model has a separate temp. comtrol.

The models with two controls mostly have a timer with integrated temperature choices and a cycle selector.

Keven,

I had such a good laugh over your picture of the member of the "Grünen". Spot on!!




Post# 121221 , Reply# 37   4/10/2006 at 14:07 (6,562 days old) by panthera (Rocky Mountains)        
cordes/miele

panthera's profile picture
I am not sure, but don't think so...Cordes was way too technically advanced. Their variable level (Mehrstufenschleudern) process back before electronics was just the bee's knees. Didn't they get bought by Miele?
Their mini's were way better built than the AEGs, at least the ones we saw in the workshop. Almost all were there because of scale or the rubber boot being gashed by the drum.
Yeah, Manfred was a Green with humor. Not too many have that. They are mostly known for their "no" mentality.
When I bought the dishwasher, he said he wouldn't use it. Never mind that they use less energy and water...it was the principle of the thing.
His protest lasted until our first big party. I went to bed at 2 in the morning...at 4 I woke up and found him in the kitchen unloading the dishes...
The Greens are usually right in the end, but their attitude is often worse than the Americans when they think they know best about...well, just about everything.
Some SL 64s did do a spin after the second rinse, by the way - just a short one.
Still suds-locked. Heck, they suds-locked continuously. Manfred found a bio-organic-decomposable detergent based on coconut fibers or some such which didn't foam but cleaned well. That solved the problem.
The integrated temperature controls were one of the many great features of these machines. In a way, Manfred was right - just set it and forget it. You couldn't make any crucial mistakes as long as you chose the right program.
Wool, by the way, left the clothes floating in water in mine. This was lots of fun, cause the water was always ice cold by the morning - no heat in the bathroom (the hot water heater was fired by putting in coal).
Memories, ah memories.
One other little detail: The fill-solinoid was anchored to the frame and not the rear wall. This meant it you over-tightend it, the plastic nut would sometimes get caught in the cut-out in the rear wall and be impossible to remove.
Anybody have any experience with the Bosch/Siemens/Constructa minis? We didn't repair them because the boss thought they were too cheaply built to guarantee. He stayed in business by providing a one year guarantee on the used stuff he sold (in Germany in those days you had 6 months. Weird, huh? Best quality in the world and no guarantee...just the opposite of the 'States, where manufacturers are held responsible for what they make.)


Post# 121345 , Reply# 38   4/11/2006 at 07:42 (6,561 days old) by tomturbomatic (Beltsville, MD)        
hot water supply

Keven, was the hot water you spoke of for the radiators to heat the house or was it the domestic hot water supply like for bathing, or both? Did the same coal-fired boiler heat both or was the domestic hot water heated separately by coal? A separate coal-fired water heater sounds sort of hard to regulate. It must not have been like our storage tank water heaters over here. Did you have to stoke the furnace in the morning?

Post# 121374 , Reply# 39   4/11/2006 at 12:07 (6,561 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands)        

foraloysius's profile picture
Yes, Cordes was bought up by Miele. I think it was because of the commercial line that Miele achieved them, at least so I was told.

Here's a picture, I see quite some similarities between the old Novamat with the controls on the side and this Cordes toploader.


Post# 121375 , Reply# 40   4/11/2006 at 12:10 (6,561 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands)        

foraloysius's profile picture
BTW, talking about Siemens, they sold a small toploader and a small topload dryer. According to Fredriksam these dryers were actually made by Cordes. Here's a picture of the toploading dryers.

Post# 121416 , Reply# 41   4/11/2006 at 14:36 (6,561 days old) by panthera (Rocky Mountains)        
it was not easy to regulate

panthera's profile picture
I think Louis is right, that sure does look like the minis which AEG sold way back when.
The dryers are definitely Cordes, that drum, that boot, that lip in the upper panel is all Cordes - Siemens could never be bothered to achieve that level of quality themselves (they are about the only European white goods maker whose quality got better over the last 20 years. And it needed to.)
The coal fired water heater was an open tank. This means water was only then displaced when a valve let cold water in. Once you began the heating, there was no way to stop it. You heated about 40 gallons of water to more or less near boiling (took surprisingly little coal) and it heated the whole bathroom along with it. I found the warmth very pleasant, it was very much radiant heat. The water, of course, was enough for very long showers or a full bath of very hot water or two warm baths.
They were very common after the war, burnt most solid fuels - coal prefered - and in the late 70's were gradually converted to gas burning, just like the coal fired gravity furnaces in the 'States.
Nowadays, Europeans tend to use demand water heaters. Running three phase at 7, 8 or more Kilowatts they put out very hot water with high effeciency...but are only about 16 inches high by 12 inches wide by 4 inches deep. Waterproofed, they are usually hung right about the bathtup. Work great, but eat electricty like mad.
The old water heaters used to run dry occasionally. The soldered joints would melt (molten lead in the bathroom, delicious) or, even more fun...people might let them run dry then add cold water to the red hot metal.
Dangerous and unsafe at any speed.
What it comes down to is this. Until very, very recently, Germans (most Europeans) did not have hot water or gas or high voltage electrical lines in their bathrooms. The English still have a lot of really archaic rules, which even the continental Europeans have given up.
This lead to lots of self-heating appliances. Since a slow rise in temperature over a long time is the ideal way for enzymes to dissolve dirt, enzymatic detergents became much more popular here than ever in the 'States. Properly rinsed, they are also easier on the skin, too.
I think US homes were more comfortable until about the late 1970's, then the Western Europeans caught up and moved far past. Pity, but as soon as a country decides it is the best, most advanced and perfect place in the world...well, look at Japan until the 1870's...



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