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Thread Number: 5746
Look what Hobart made |
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Post# 119736 4/3/2006 at 21:13 (6,596 days old) by sudsmaster  (SF Bay Area, California) |
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Post# 119749 , Reply# 1 4/3/2006 at 21:46 (6,596 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California) |
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It's a KD-2P, circa 1951. Spotless interior, racks in great shape. The lid hinges need to be replaced, in that the built-in backstops have long since gone. Other than that, it's in great shape... except it's not currently working right. It gets power, the timer goes around, but the pump and/or motor probably needs some attention. Perhaps the blower and/or heating element, too. Once I figure how how to get at the guts of this thing, I'll start working on it. Would I be correct in that the heavy cast iron spray arm is motorized? | ||
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Post# 119752 , Reply# 2 4/3/2006 at 21:53 (6,596 days old) by appnut (TX) |
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Post# 119756 , Reply# 3 4/3/2006 at 22:28 (6,596 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California) |
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| Post# 119760 , Reply# 4 4/3/2006 at 22:34 (6,596 days old) by knitwits1975 () | ||
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Could we please see some interior shots. | ||
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Post# 119763 , Reply# 5 4/3/2006 at 22:51 (6,596 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California) |
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Post# 119770 , Reply# 6 4/3/2006 at 23:20 (6,596 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California) |
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Post# 119771 , Reply# 7 4/3/2006 at 23:21 (6,596 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California) |
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Post# 119772 , Reply# 8 4/3/2006 at 23:22 (6,596 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California) |
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Post# 119773 , Reply# 9 4/3/2006 at 23:23 (6,596 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California) |
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Post# 119775 , Reply# 10 4/3/2006 at 23:24 (6,596 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California) |
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Post# 119776 , Reply# 11 4/3/2006 at 23:25 (6,596 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California) |
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| Post# 119795 , Reply# 12 4/4/2006 at 01:45 (6,596 days old) by scott55405 () | ||
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Very cool! | ||
| Post# 119807 , Reply# 13 4/4/2006 at 05:25 (6,596 days old) by knitwits1975 () | ||
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Wow! Thanks for the pics! She's a Beauty! | ||
| Post# 119814 , Reply# 14 4/4/2006 at 06:39 (6,596 days old) by mrcleanjeans (milwaukee wi) | ||
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here's the dish on the KA Congrats!But the machine is from 1958 | ||
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Post# 119830 , Reply# 15 4/4/2006 at 08:43 (6,595 days old) by unimatic1140 (Minneapolis) |
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| Post# 119841 , Reply# 16 4/4/2006 at 09:53 (6,595 days old) by mint46 (North Eastern Pennsylvania) | ||
drooooool | ||
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Post# 119887 , Reply# 17 4/4/2006 at 14:34 (6,595 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California) |
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Mint, LOL, yes, I was thrilled to be lucky enough to purchase this one. Persistence and patience paid off. Robert, if the impeller is bakelite it sounds quite possible that it could be broken. I'll have to tear down the machine to find out. I'm assuming I'll have to turn the thing upside down and/or remove the rear panel to get at the "guts" of this thing. One thing I'm going to do right off, is to put bigger wheels on it. My second kitchen has a real brick floor, without much wear, and it's pretty rough with the mortar lines and all. So the little 2 inch wheels have a hard time rolling around on it. I'll probably get 3 inch ones, with locks for the front. Mr Clean, thanks for the date correction. 1951 did seem a bit too early, espeically since the original power cord has a three-prong grounded plug. Well, time to get back to the job. | ||
| Post# 119892 , Reply# 18 4/4/2006 at 14:59 (6,595 days old) by retromom () | ||
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Kool Kitchenaid! Rich: What a find!! I love it! Venus :-) | ||
| Post# 119916 , Reply# 20 4/4/2006 at 19:00 (6,595 days old) by customline (pennsylvania) | ||
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It's Great !!! Did you get a soap cup with it? | ||
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Post# 119918 , Reply# 21 4/4/2006 at 19:05 (6,595 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California) |
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Greg, Thanks for the synopsis of the wash cycle. I'm going to have to check out the timer, as well. The "Start" switch also needs work. I understand it's sort of a safety interlock, but it must be missing a piece, since the machine will start with the start switch in the up "off" position. The machine itself starts when the dial is set to wash and the handle is swiveled closed/locked. The locking depresses a switch which in turn supplies power to the timer/unit. However I can hear the thing give out a hum even when the lid is not locked, but the unit is plugged in. Yes, it only came with the racks you see. I was wondering about the upper rack... I figured it must be something having to do with better washing action in the middle than on the sides, or something. Anyway, I guess I'll be on the lookout for some side racks... but I might have to make some myself. Rright now I can see a good usage for all the depth in this thing, minus the upper side racks, such as - washing the drip tray for the gas BBQ/rotisserie, which lives just outside the patio kitchen where this is residing. | ||
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Post# 119919 , Reply# 22 4/4/2006 at 19:08 (6,595 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California) |
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Customline, "Soap cup"? Nope. I was wondering just how one is supposed to add detergent to this thing. Can you describe what the soap cup is like, so I could maybe fashion something similar that would work just as well? I was just going to throw some DW detergent in the bottom and hope for the best :-). | ||
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Post# 120251 , Reply# 23 4/6/2006 at 02:05 (6,594 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California) |
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Almost forgot the best part! | ||
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Post# 120252 , Reply# 24 4/6/2006 at 02:13 (6,594 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California) |
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| Post# 120276 , Reply# 25 4/6/2006 at 07:37 (6,593 days old) by cvillewasherbo () | ||
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I am absolutely in love with your DW--and jealous too. | ||
| Post# 120388 , Reply# 26 4/6/2006 at 13:44 (6,593 days old) by tlee618 () | ||
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Rich congratulations on a real beauty!! Be sure to keep us posted on your progress with it.!! Terry | ||
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Post# 120904 , Reply# 27 4/9/2006 at 05:49 (6,591 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands) |
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Post# 121011 , Reply# 29 4/9/2006 at 14:30 (6,590 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California) |
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Thanks, Louis. Greg, Well, once I finish my taxes I'll start opening up the 'Bart. I was told that this machine was worked on once before, and was working ok. But I suspect that the work may not have been all the "kosher" so who knows what I'll find (and I don't have a good idea of what it should look like anyway). A broken rod would be relatively simple to repair. The humming is another matter. It could just be the timer being energized all the time. | ||
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Post# 121925 , Reply# 31 4/13/2006 at 02:39 (6,587 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California) |
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I had an opportunity to start the Hobart inspection/restoration process today. First I put down a double layer of corrugated cardboard down on the brick floor to protect the finish. Then I removed all the racks, spray arm (heavy), and filters. I gently lay the machine on its back. Underneath is a galvanized steel pan, open at the corners. About six screws held it to the base, and was easily removed. Underneath I could see the blower, pump motor, and timer, valves and other controls. My time was taken up going to the hardware store and looking for bigger wheels. The current casters are 1.25" dia, on threaded 5/16" stems. I'm planning to upgrade them to 2-1/3 or 3" wheels, but these sizes come with 3/8" dia shafts, so I'll either have look for ones with smaller shafts, or drill out the sheet metal under the machine. I hesitate to do that because it's porcelain coated, and I don't like to break that protection if I can avoid it. There's a caster store in town that I'll check in with before I start surgery. It does look like the rod from the Start switch isn't working right - at least it doesn't move with the switch. That will take some more work - I'll probably have to remove the handle assembly to get at the source of that issue. I didn't get a chance to take photos, but I'll try to get some in the next few days. The pump itself is kind of interesting. It looks like it shoots water up through its central shaft, but that's all I can figure out at the moment. It actually looks like the impeller housing is ABS or some similar sturdy plastic, not bakelight, so I'm thinking the actual impeller might be nylon or other fracture-resistant material. At this point it will be some major work taking the impeller/pump housing apart to get at the impeller, so I'm putting that off until I can do some more diagnostics on what's not working right (translation - turn it on while all the access panels are off, and observe). That's all for now. Have to get some rest. | ||
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Post# 122107 , Reply# 33 4/13/2006 at 20:37 (6,586 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California) |
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Bottoms Up
Here's a shot of the nether region of the Hobart/KA... From left to right, the shiny cylinder is the air blower/heater, then in the middle is the pump with a strange chamber grafted onto it. To the right is some sort of junction box or solenoid. And just to the left of that, is a black painted cast iron tubular extension from the pump assembly, with a vintage lacquered or glue-covered cork stuck in it! I really wonder what's up with that... Notice the nicely preserved full porcelain enamel finish inside and out. No cheesing out for Hobart in '57! 
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Post# 122109 , Reply# 34 4/13/2006 at 20:40 (6,586 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California) |
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And it's a yo, ho, blow the man down... | ||
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Post# 122110 , Reply# 35 4/13/2006 at 20:47 (6,586 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California) |
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And here is a look at what I'm calling the Drain Jar. The tube running off the top of it, I think that's going to the drain hole you can see in previous pictures on the interior of the washer. Then there is a side tube, with what looks in this pic like a white rubber seal, going off to the pump (I think). Off to the right you can see some springs, a aolenoid, and assorted cams and levers, that seem to operate a valve to switch between recirculating and draining. Good news... I was able to locate the part that connects to the sink faucet and quick connects to the fitting on the end of the Hobart hose. So I might actually be able to hook it up and see just what it's up to, under power, with a water source. I'll be righting the machine later, and taking the back panel off, for another view of these innards. 
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Post# 122145 , Reply# 36 4/14/2006 at 01:36 (6,586 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California) |
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PS-The original wheels are 1-1/4" diameter rubber casters, on 5/16" threaded stems. They are fine for smooth floors, but not good on the brick patio surface. So I have on order, some 2-1/2" diameter wheels, also with 5/16" threaded stems, from the local caster emporium (yes, there is such a place in town!). Two will have "brakes", which I'll put in the front (the patio surface slants gently away from the countertop area. Good for drainage/hosing it down periodically, bad if stuff wants to roll). It will take a couple of weeks to get them, but it will be preferable to drilling out the existing holes in the porcelain steel to accomodate the more readily available 3/8" threaded stems. | ||
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Post# 122342 , Reply# 37 4/15/2006 at 17:30 (6,584 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California) |
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Bart Lives!!!
Well, other than waking up late this morning, and thinking it was really Easter Sunday and I was late for brunch, it's been a good day. After assuaging a caffeine headache with a cup o', I venture out into the patio kitchen for another go at Bart. Removing about 20 screws revealed the backside of the works. In there I could see that someone had replaced the water valve. Good. I purged the hot water tap - only about 10 feet away from the water heater - and hooked up the quick connect to the kitchen faucet. Then I inserted only the cast iron spray arm, plugged the cord in, and set the control to wash. It filled nicely, but drained as soon as it started washing. Which made for a very short wash cycle. Closer inspection showed that while the solenoid to switch the valve between wash and drain was working, quite audibly, the valve itself was stuck. I was able to loosen it up manually, and squirted some WD-40 on the works for good measure. After working it back and forth a bit more, I was able to confirm that it worked under solenoid/spring action well enough to proceed. I was able to run a full wash cycle with appropriate steps. These are much as Greg has already described: 1) Simultaneous fill/drain for purging. 2) Fill and then wash with no drain. 3) Drain (with wash pump still going). 4) Fill for 1st rinse. 5) Rinse. 6) Drain. 7) Fill for second rinse. 8) Second rinse. 9) Drain (might be simultaneous with second rinse, not sure). 10) Heated air dry. At first I didn't think the heater blower was working, but either it has a thermostat for the fan, or the fan bearing grease just needed to warm up a bit. The fan started turning with a relatively gentle flow of air through the body of the machine. Pics to follow. | ||
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Post# 122343 , Reply# 38 4/15/2006 at 17:44 (6,584 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California) |
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Bart's backside revealed | ||
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Post# 122344 , Reply# 39 4/15/2006 at 17:58 (6,584 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California) |
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Wash Drain valve
This is the one that was sticking. You can see the somewhat rusty springs that help the valve move to proper position - the solenoid is connected to the upper spring, which in turn moves the valve lever up, or down, which in turn pushes the valve stem rod in, or out. In this photo, the valve cam and valve rod are to the right, the solenoid to the upper right, and the springs to the far right. 
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Post# 122345 , Reply# 40 4/15/2006 at 18:03 (6,584 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California) |
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More detail | ||
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Post# 122347 , Reply# 41 4/15/2006 at 18:07 (6,584 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California) |
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Looks like someone replaced the fill valve | ||
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Post# 122348 , Reply# 42 4/15/2006 at 18:18 (6,584 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California) |
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Discussion
I haven't yet timed a full cycle, but it can't be much more than 30 minutes. The water spray action is very forceful - you can feel it pounding on the underside of the lid. It's forceful enough that a little seeps through the gasket, although I imagine that some rubber conditioner might soften it up so that it seals better. I can see why Robert decided to put a plastic lid on his machine. I may do the same with this one, although constructing the labryinth around the air vent by the handle will be challenging. The machine as is will work and I plan on washing a load of dishes in it soon. What it still needs to be have done include: 1) Fix the start switch/lever. It's in constant start mode now, which means once you lock the lid and the timer is set to wash and the thing is plugged in, it will go, regardless of the position of the start switch. 2) Fix the lid hinges. Looks like there are fittings on the upper cabinet back for strong springs to hold the lid in an upright position. Those springs are missing, as is the rear part of the hinges that would hold the springs and also keep the lid from tilting too far backwards. The hinges are simple cast pot metal, chromed. I plan on replacing them with machined billet 304 stainless (or 6061 wrought aluminum), as soon as I can measure a hinge, design a new pair, and get some off-the-clock time on the machine tools at work. They do not look like a difficult project, fairly straight forward. 3) Replace washer in fill hose 3/4 fitting. Simple. Old one probably deteriorated under hot water flow. I may add a sediment screen if one is not already there. 4) Locate missing internal parts: soap cup, and upper side racks. Can anyone help finding those? Summary - this one is a keeper, and will be the machine that I use in this second patio kitchen. If I get a plastic window lid, it will be great entertainment, as well. | ||
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Post# 122360 , Reply# 43 4/15/2006 at 20:42 (6,584 days old) by toggleswitch (New York City, NY) |
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Post# 122381 , Reply# 44 4/15/2006 at 23:27 (6,584 days old) by appnut (TX) |
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Congratulations Rich. They are awesome. I cannot speak from actual experience with KAs of this vintage (very limited when I was in high school), but the later models when starting the dry cycle, the blower didn't come on immediately after the final drain period finished. It waited a couple of minutes and then started blowing. And please take pics of the load of dishes ya wash!!
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Post# 122402 , Reply# 45 4/16/2006 at 01:58 (6,584 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California) |
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Thanks, Toggle and Bob, and everyone else, too. I finished all the repairs I could manage without machining new hinges. It took me all afternoon and evening. This included: 1) New washer for the fill hose - I used a screened filter, just for extra precaution. However, I may live to regret that, since I later found that putting the rear panel back on is a real SOB. More about that later. 2) Fixed the start switch. This turned out to be quite simple. The hook on the end of the start rod had slipped out of the groove in start button. It was a simple matter of remounting the handle front panel. Of course, I had to polish the chrome with Brasso, first. The start switch function is interesting. At the end of the cycle, the machine timer goes to "OFF". If you close the lid and lock the handle, and then press the Start button, it mechanically pushes the timer to "WASH" and starts the cycle. 3) Checked the heater/fan operation. No problems there. Heater and fan seem to be working properly. 4) Re-routed drain and fill hoses. They were not routed correctly to begin with, and re-routing them gave another four or so inches in length. 5) Added a hose extension to the combination fill/drain faucet fitting, so the drains won't splash all over the place (it's a shallow sink with a high arched faucet, great for filling tall pots but bad for splashing). I did another dishless run to check the times. I'll post that in another message. On the back panel, it's very nicely made porcelain coated steel. But it's also bowed outward, which makes it smaller than the flanges it's supposed to go around. I finally got it on by pushing against the middle of the panel while installing it, with the washer against the countertop (protected by a 2x4). By taking out some of the bow, this opened up the width of the panel and allowed it to slide into place. | ||
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Post# 122404 , Reply# 46 4/16/2006 at 02:21 (6,584 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California) |
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Cycle Times
Here are the cycle times for the KD-2P dishwasher. Times are approximate. Function Function Time Total time ============================================================= Fill/drain/purge 1 1 Fill 1.75 2.75 Wash 6.75 9.5 Drain 0.75 10.25 Pause 0.75 11 Fill 1.5 12.5 Rinse 1.5 14 Drain 0.75 14.75 Pause 0.75 15.5 Fill 0.5 16 Rinse 1.5 17.5 Drain 1 18.5 Pause 0.5 19 Heated Fan Dry 22.5 41.5 So... under 20 minutes for a complete wash cycle, then another 23 minutes to do a heated forced air dry. | ||
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Post# 122405 , Reply# 47 4/16/2006 at 02:24 (6,584 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California) |
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The Badge of Bart | ||
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Post# 122406 , Reply# 48 4/16/2006 at 02:41 (6,584 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California) |
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Wiring Diagram | ||
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Post# 122422 , Reply# 49 4/16/2006 at 09:02 (6,583 days old) by toggleswitch (New York City, NY) |
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Post# 122443 , Reply# 50 4/16/2006 at 12:19 (6,583 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California) |
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Another tidbit... The low location of the timer dial on this machine probably means it's not very child-proof. Once the machine is in a wash cycle, one can turn the dial forward all the way to off, with the solenoid clicking the valve one way or the other as it progresses through the functions. The dial is only locked when it's in the "OFF" position and the Start button has not been pushed downward. Even with the handle unlocked, if the dial is past "OFF", then it can be turned through the functions. And, as one can see from the wiring diagram, the solenoid is fully powered up whenever the machine is plugged in, so you'll hear it activate one way or the other as the dial is rotated, even with the lid wide open. Too easy for a toddler to fool with. Still trying to figure out how to advance the timer to the "Plate Warm or Dry" position without triggering the solenoid (other than unplugging the machine). I guess it doesn't hurt the machine to have the solenoid activated, but it sure makes a racket. That aside, the cycles on this machine give one a glimpse of a time when the engineers were free to design something with only one purpose - to wash dishes. They used plenty of water, lots of water pressure, and quick (and hopefully effective) cycle times to get the job done. No worries about toddlers or water consumption or energy consumption. A portable machine makes some sense since it can have a taller tub than an under-counter machine with similar mechanical components. I could see a Hobart or KA portable DW of this vintage doing yeoman duty in a small restaurant, cafe, or diner... | ||
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Post# 122498 , Reply# 51 4/16/2006 at 19:14 (6,583 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California) |
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Per Bob's Request
Finished results of first load of dishes/cups/saucers/bowls/glasses... Everything came out very clean except for dried on egg on a plastic spatula. I don't think 6-1/2 minutes was enough time for a modern enzyme detergent to do its thing... Might have to go find an older chlorinated dw detergent for this machine. 
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Post# 122500 , Reply# 52 4/16/2006 at 19:16 (6,583 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California) |
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Post# 122506 , Reply# 53 4/16/2006 at 19:22 (6,583 days old) by neptunebob (Pittsburgh, PA) |
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Guess what - We had this machine!
I just happened to look at thread - when I was a boy we had this machine for several years. It was my aunt's when she had her kitchen remodeled with a built in dishwasher and we inherited this one. I do remember it kind of roared and everything came out clean. We kids often rolled it around and rode on top of it. You are right about the timer knob not being childproof - I messed up the programming more than once because I was the one who thought turning it was fun to do. My folks had this KA from about 1962 (before me!) until about 1972 when my mother gave it to a friend of hers. Then we got another portable dishwasher from another neighbor, a Kenmore that looked like the one in "Oh So Brown". We left that one with the house in 1975. One thing that happned is that sometimes the gasket in the back would get icky, probably becuase us kids liked to throw drinks against the lid. Just use a lot of mild detergent like Dawn or Ivory to get it clean. That will probably help soften it up too. | ||
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Post# 122508 , Reply# 54 4/16/2006 at 19:25 (6,583 days old) by neptunebob (Pittsburgh, PA) |
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Post# 122525 , Reply# 55 4/16/2006 at 20:50 (6,583 days old) by steved (Guilderland, New York) |
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Service manual Suds, send me your mailing address and I will send you a service manual for the KD-2P. Things will be so much clearer for you after you see it....... figure it as an Easter bunny treat! SteveD | ||
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Post# 122526 , Reply# 56 4/16/2006 at 20:54 (6,583 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California) |
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Post# 122527 , Reply# 57 4/16/2006 at 20:57 (6,583 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California) |
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Post# 122553 , Reply# 58 4/16/2006 at 22:37 (6,583 days old) by neptunebob (Pittsburgh, PA) |
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Looking for appliances in music videos - do I need to get a
Suds, I just tried the link and it worked on my computer. It takes about a minute for the video to load your V-Spot and you do have to click on "We are One Tonight". Wait, you might have to register on VH1.com (that also lets you make comments on their message board too - I'm the one who says "This band needs a bath!") There's usually a commercial for a Pantene or an acne solution before the video. I think if you register on vhi.com the first screen it might work. While you're at it you might want to look at "Stars", it a video that takes place underwater. My father was a dentist at the VA and my mother was a nurse who worked in central sterile supply in the Navy and they thought a dishwasher would sterilize everything, at least some of the way, I mean even us kids knew about "Don't touch that, it's sterile!". I do think we didn't catch as many colds as our neighbors. Also, I find that since we grew up with a dishwasher, living without one is depressing, I mean, dishes aren't "Squeaky clean" when washed by hand. I do remember the machine being hot on the outside, though not dangerously so. I do think we had more rust on our unit too. Mother used Cascade, or more often, Calgonite because it was made by a Pittsburgh company, it was less expensive, and it kept the Spotmaker away. I don't think they make Calgonite anymore. Oh, one mroe thing, in the video with the dishwasher (about halfway through it) a little later there is a scene of a kitchen that looks somewhat like yours. Happy KA washing. Nep. P.S. try this link to register, just so you don't end up looking for appliances in videos like I did. CLICK HERE TO GO TO neptunebob's LINK | ||
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Post# 122585 , Reply# 59 4/17/2006 at 01:57 (6,583 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California) |
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Bob, I did have to register, and started the video ok. Then about halfway through I paused it and it wouldn't restart. Then I had to tend to other chores (like setting up a new computer for work... I've forgotten how complex that can be... turning a Thiz Linux POS Fry's box into a W2K machine... mystery integrated display, LAN, and audio drivers... lol...). Anyway, I'll try again later in the week. | ||
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Post# 122747 , Reply# 60 4/17/2006 at 18:56 (6,582 days old) by neptunebob (Pittsburgh, PA) |
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Post# 122772 , Reply# 61 4/17/2006 at 19:57 (6,582 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California) |
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I don't really remember Calgonite. The water here is reasonably soft (about 4-5 grains) so no need for extra water softener over and above the STPP I use on a regular basis. I've seen chlorinated dw detergent at supermarkets, still, usually the bargain brands. Since there is no soap cup or dispenser for this machine, I'm wondering how much DW detergent to add in first place. It seems to use a fair amount of water per wash function (1-1/2 minutes of the faucet going flat out), so it may need more than the average DW, perhaps. And way more than my Bosch, which is very frugal with DW detergent and Jetdry. By the way, I don't notice the sides of the cabinet getting warm, which is logical since they are separate from the tub. The lid does get warm, but like you say, not uncomfortably so. I have turned up the thermostat on the gas water heater... it was down to less than 120F for the winter to help qualify for a gas bill rebate (all of $38). Now I've put it back up around 130-135, which may help with washing. Not quite sure what the "Plate Warmer" function is all about. The thermostat keeps the heating element clicking off and on during a heated dry, so the air coming out of the machine isn't all that warm once the heat of the rinse water has gone. Perhaps the thermostat needs attention; it may be turning off the element at too low a temp. | ||
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Post# 122776 , Reply# 62 4/17/2006 at 20:14 (6,582 days old) by neptunebob (Pittsburgh, PA) |
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Suds, I would start with a tablespoon of the Members Mark powder and adjust from there. If you don't use a powder I would use one Cascade gel pack or one Electrasol tab, they usually seem to be enough. "Plate warmer" is for when a happy housewife had an elegant dinner party and did not want to serve hot food on cold plates from the cabinet. Starting in the 70s this setting went away for being a waste of energy, we never used it. Calgonite was not a water softener but Calgon's (later Merck?) brand of dishwasher detergent. The "Spotmaker" looked like one of the villians on "Batman".
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Post# 122780 , Reply# 63 4/17/2006 at 20:25 (6,582 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California) |
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OIC. Well, I added probably 2 TBS of Kirkland powder, and it seemed to work ok except for the dried on egg spatula. I might have some old chlorinated powder kicking around here, also. If necessary I could always run two wash functions, or pause the washer in the middle of the wash cycle to let the enzymes digest their supper. I suppose Calgonite was pretty much the same chemicals as Cascade of the era. Aside from phazing out chlorine and bringing in enzymes, and some with rinse aid, I don't there is really much difference between DW detergent powders. It's basically washing soda, complex phosphate, sodium silicate, and enzymes or chlorinated TSP. I went searching after work today for new hoses for the Hobart. No luck there, the faucet fitting is sufficiently ancient that there's not much out there. I could have hoses custom-made - there is a hose company in town. But what I may do is just splice in some extra length of hose as the washer end. The reason for this is that if I can get the hoses to extend from the washer about five feet, I can place it between the sink counter and the refrigerator, and not have to roll it to the sink every time I use it. It will be more out of the way there, as well. It will be nice to be able to use this washer, as currently I wind up taking dirty dishes from the patio kitchen to the main kitchen, and then they don't aways find their way back once clean. | ||
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Post# 122929 , Reply# 64 4/18/2006 at 14:08 (6,581 days old) by neptunebob (Pittsburgh, PA) |
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Another memory...
I used to think that the sprayer at the bottom looked like a blue crocodile. I notice yours has some rust, so maybe it could be blue powder coated like they do on "American Chopper". Your machine looks a lot like the KitchenAid Briva dishwasher built into a sink that they sell now. I would like to have a Briva if I had a patio kitchen, but it is soooooooooo expensive! I think you will like this extra dishwasher when you entertain. If you use Electrasol tabs, get the ones with the Jet Dry Powerball. This is off the subject but how are KitchenAid dishwashers today? Is a new one as good as the ones in the past? They must be up to KD25 by now. Nep | ||
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Post# 122989 , Reply# 65 4/18/2006 at 18:40 (6,581 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California) |
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I've never used a modern KA dishwasher, but they seem to have satisfied owners. I like that all of them has stainless interiors - I dislike plastic tubbed dishwashers, after my bad experience with a MOL Frigidaire. Alligator is a good description for the spray arm. I guess it was made heavy so the water pressure wouldn't blow it off the post, and so that no fastening mechanism or complex bearings would be needed. Interesting that modern dw's have such lightweight, if not flimsy, spray arms these days, but which seem to work ok. You're right, this old KA/HB dw will be handy for entertainment. In fact, I expect it will be the major entertainment :-) I think Martha has a small stainless strainer with wire handles at Smearmart. I could probably bend the wire handles to form a hook to fasten it to the upper rack, for dispensing DW detergent. Powder coating could work to renew the look of the spray arm. Although I'm not sure how long it would last in a hot alkaline environment. Once I get the hoses extended I can move the dw closer to the wall for operation, and rig some sort of lid retainer which will make loading/unloading a lot easier. Right now I have to balance the lid on my shoulder as I reach in. Once I get the hinges restored, of course, that will no longer be a problem (I hope). | ||
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Post# 123095 , Reply# 66 4/19/2006 at 01:51 (6,581 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California) |
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PS-I am seriously considering replacing the modern KA stainless fridge in the second kitchen with the 1940's vintage GE fridge I have waiting for a paint job and new door gasket (I posted photos of it a month or two ago). I think the KD-2P and the GE fridge would look very compatible together. I am also planning on measuring the average energy usage of the old GE. If it's not much higher than that of the modern KA, then that's a plus. I figure with the small freezer, lack of auto defrost, and thick walls, it might be close. | ||
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Post# 123101 , Reply# 67 4/19/2006 at 02:21 (6,581 days old) by panthera (Rocky Mountains) |
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it might be less
Given all the little things which are continuously going on in a modern refrigerator - timers, heaters, electronic controls - I wouldn't be surprised if the Monitor Top were more efficient. Putting the compressor at the top sure took care of the "heat rising through the cooled cabinet" problem. Only thing to watch out for is that the insultion is really dry. When wet it loses its value completely. Let us know - but I bet they will look great together. | ||
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Post# 123104 , Reply# 68 4/19/2006 at 02:37 (6,581 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California) |
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Thanks Panthera, but it's not a Monitor Top. The compressor is under the compartment, like most modern fridges. It is however a nice looking appliance, nearly mint interior, and with some sanding, primer, and a good coat of paint the exterior will look great as well. The door gasket is a must-change. The old one is nearly in pieces. 
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Post# 123576 , Reply# 69 4/20/2006 at 23:21 (6,579 days old) by neptunebob (Pittsburgh, PA) |
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Well, do you have the Hobart working yet?
I want to know! Also, a friend of my mother's had a GE fridge like that up until 10 years ago. She then replaced it with a cheap, boring, and oridinary refrigerator-freezer because she didn't have freezer space and didn't want to shop every day. I was still working. I was sad to find that out, if I had known I would have advised her to buy a separate freezer. The old GE was distinctive. P.S. Do you have Electrasol tabs with Jet Dry Power Ball in your area? They would be perfect in our KA. | ||
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Post# 123591 , Reply# 70 4/21/2006 at 00:10 (6,579 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California) |
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Bob, I already got it working... ran a test load and posted the after photo... Did you miss it? Right now it's apart again, at least the back. I removed the hoses to take them to a hose shop to see if they could make up longer hoses. The answer was... sort of... they didn't have the proper fittings. They said they'd have to re-use the existing fittings to do the job, and I thought if that's the case I'll just do it myself. I did buy a couple of unions and some new hoses (12 feet each!). At the very least I'll just splice in a few feet of new hose at the machine end, so I can position the washer where I want it. I did make some progress on the hinge replacement. I located suitable stainless steel billet stock from which to machine them. Next I have to dissassemble the lid to get the hinges off so I can measure them carefully. It would help if someone with the same, or similar machine, could chime in and describe what the stock hinges look like, on the spring side. That part is broken off both the existing hinges. I am trying to figure out what the original design was, but I have questions. Anyway, mechanically the machine seems to run just fine. It's just a few odds and ends to attend to at this point. | ||
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Post# 124050 , Reply# 71 4/23/2006 at 20:49 (6,576 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California) |
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Today most of my time was spent replacing the sink faucet in the main kitchen... why do they have to make these things so complicated? Anyway, it's in now, a giant goosneck affair that allows a full 18" below the faucet tip. Nice spray, too. Single side handle control with ceramic cartridge valving. Anyway, then I was able to spend some time with "Bart". I decided not to fool with the hoses just yet... instead I took apart the hinges and drew up a design for a replacement. I more or less figured out what to do with the missing section... it will run dual springs down to an existing adjuster on the hinge mount. The back end of the hinge will also act as a stop, to keep the lid from falling backwards. Oh, and I ran that eggy spatula through the Bosch. It didn't do any better than the KD-2P in removing the residue. A good scrubbing by hand did the trick, though. So my faith is restored in vintage dishwashing! | ||
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Post# 124115 , Reply# 72 4/24/2006 at 01:44 (6,576 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California) |
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Post# 124116 , Reply# 73 4/24/2006 at 01:55 (6,576 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California) |
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Post# 124164 , Reply# 74 4/24/2006 at 11:02 (6,575 days old) by chachp (North Little Rock, AR) |
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Sudsmaster,
Thought you might like to have this to go with your cool dishwasher.
CLICK HERE TO GO TO chachp's LINK on eBay | ||
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Post# 124187 , Reply# 75 4/24/2006 at 18:17 (6,575 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California) |
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Post# 124195 , Reply# 76 4/24/2006 at 18:32 (6,575 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California) |
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MANY THANKS TO STEVED!!!
Many thanks to SteveD for sending me a mint original copy of the service manual for the KA KD-2P dishwasher. It's a great help to figuring out how to work on this machine. I'm also a little proud that the hinge design I posted last night pretty much duplicates the general shape of the original missing broken off pieces, which are pictured in the service manual, as well. I had deduced that there would be dual springs for each hinge, and also that there needed to be about a 1/4" relief in the lower back of the hinge to allow the lid to be raised a full 90 degrees vertical. The service manual confirms the dual hinge layout, as well as the relief. And here's a slightly revised version of the replacement hinge, with fillets on the upper and leading edges, so Missus doesn't catch her lace cuffs on the sharp edges when loading up a another place setting ;-). Today I got an ok from my boss to work on this in the shop off the clock, so I'll be finalizing the CNC code tonight and giving it a go in the shop soon. 
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Post# 124424 , Reply# 78 4/25/2006 at 14:30 (6,574 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California) |
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| Post# 124487 , Reply# 79 4/25/2006 at 19:08 (6,574 days old) by customline (pennsylvania) | ||
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Here's that soap cup Suds, sorry for getting to you so late but here's what my soap cup looks like on my D&M style '57 Westinghouse portable dishwasher with bakelite impeller. Congrats on your Hobart. 
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Post# 124511 , Reply# 81 4/25/2006 at 20:24 (6,574 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California) |
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| Post# 124515 , Reply# 82 4/25/2006 at 20:47 (6,574 days old) by mrcleanjeans (milwaukee wi) | ||
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Design and Manufacturing company | ||
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Post# 124577 , Reply# 83 4/26/2006 at 02:04 (6,574 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California) |
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Post# 125583 , Reply# 84 4/30/2006 at 13:18 (6,569 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California) |
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Because this thread will eventually scroll off to the archives, where photos may not be available, I uploaded most of these shots (plus some from the hinge thread) to my photo collection. Here is a link: CLICK HERE TO GO TO sudsmaster's LINK | ||
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